The AI thread

[X-Power]

Impressive! Looks like PD have gotten the AI sorted, they are better than they used to be. I have memories of GT4's AI hitting me up the bum at many corners.

 

[alucard0712]

Impressive! Looks like PD have gotten the AI sorted, they are better than they used to be. I have memories of GT4's AI hitting me up the bum at many corners.

It's OMG!!!I have 3000 b-spec points and STILL he can't overtake on Mulsane STRAIGHT! (le mans big straight).He just hitting the opponents.I understand why there is NO "collision" or "impact" damage.GT4 type AI can't live with that...
(Forza 3 b-spec OK!)

 

[No46_TheDoctor]

There's nothing impressive in this video. At 2:02 the Petronas SC430 (player) brakes too early and gives a chance to the Yellow Hat Supra to take over. Then again at 2:16 he brakes and the Motul GT-R bumps into him.

Must agree, I can't honestly see what all the fuss is about, If you set the arcade races in Prologue hard enough you get good races from a couple of cars, not all the cars are good but you do get at least one that gives a good hard race.

 

[CoolColJ]

I'm hoping we have an improved version and useage of the B-Spec driver in GT5. More like the Drivatar in Forza

being able to race againt other player's Drivatars, will give you unlimited AI styles!
http://www.vagamelabs.com/drivatars-making-the-most-of-them-in-forza-motorsport.htm

 

[Tenacious D]

I would absolutely LOVE to have something like the drivatar training from Forza 1. Creating your own bots was actually a lot of fun. Unfortunately, my brother liked to create idiots that would occasionally brake for no apparent reason, and for some reason his bots corrupted the ENTIRE game A.I.! So I had to banish his to a memory card, and retrain mine.

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

I would absolutely LOVE to have something like the drivatar training from Forza 1. Creating your own bots was actually a lot of fun. Unfortunately, my brother liked to create idiots that would occasionally brake for no apparent reason, and for some reason his bots corrupted the ENTIRE game A.I.! So I had to banish his to a memory card, and retrain mine.

I agree, i had some fun times racing my tuned cars against each other at nurburgring...only thing that sucked was i could only race4 at the time...

But yes, it would be good if GT5 has a feature like this.

But, Back to topic please. 👍

...Anyway, any body remember back in GT5p where the AI car's use to swerve out of the way? what happen to that build, i thought it was pretty good.

 

[Griffith500]

I've no experience with this Drivatar (🤬 name, by the way) but B-spec Bob was an abomination, so hopefully the improved AI can open up some new possibilities there, and maybe I'll make use of him...

 

[CoolColJ]

With Drivitar, he learns from you, so he mimicks your driving style. Which is logical as you will use it in place of yourself when needed.
So every person's Drivitar is unique. Whereas with B-Spec Bob, you basicly gain ratings by grinding certain car classes on all tracks without beating the other AI by too much, to make it less stupid

I had my B-Spec driver up to 97-80-80 rating, around 8000+, and he was still stupid but faster.

Drivitar is more fluid in that he can approach every corner type with a specific driving line and braking point based on how you drive
I can see a game into itself based on this! Rather RPG like actually, a real driving career mode

 

[Griffith500]

That is interesting - I think LFS used to (still does?) have adaptive AI, I managed to teach them all to drift once It was especially funny at the start of a race, as they all light up their tyres like maniacs

That sort of system would be better, anyway, as B-spec Bob was next to useless for actually winning races - I didn't bother with him on my second save at all. One thing that is needed is the ability to recondition the AI driver, perhaps by setting benchmark laps yourself, for certain racing styles etc. Then you could call upon these "profiles" mid-race, or something.

 

[Custer85]

I won several endurance races with the B-Spec driver, so i think it was ok with me. You could tell him to overtake and he did. I never had any problems. I didn't know that you could level up the B-Spec driver though. I really only used it for some of the endurance races (those that were taking me longer than 2-3 hours).

I usually started the Race on my own, claimed first place and after the first pitstop I decided to let the AI do the rest and he allways won it. Even overtaking the laped drivers was no problem at all.

The AI in GT4 was not very challinging and it was easy to overtake them. The only reason for them overtaking eachother was a superior car.

In GT5p the cars overtake eachother more often, they can go through corners side by side and they make mistakes, like braking too late after slipstreaming along a long staight. The AI in GT5p was a step foreward, but its more than 2 years old, when GT5 is released, so i think they will improve on the AI until then.

 

[KC_HIX]

Speaking of lapped drivers, in TOCA2 (i think it was) on the first PS they had AI that observed blue flags and moved out of your way when being lapped. That would be a nice little feature I think. So many times on endurance races where I have been lapping the AI only to be punted off or spun out...

 

[GPR]

Speaking of lapped drivers, in TOCA2 (i think it was) on the first PS they had AI that observed blue flags and moved out of your way when being lapped. That would be a nice little feature I think. So many times on endurance races where I have been lapping the AI only to be punted off or spun out...

That would be good. Having all drivers comply with race rules.

What bugs me and would be nice is if AI weren't so perfect every lap, yes on occasion one screws up on braking into a corner but it'd be nice if on longer races they seem to drive more lazy or dirty after a while as if fatigue is setting in or they make a bad choice in pulling a move and screw their race line up.

Just feels like they all drive too perfect most of the time. More robotic than human.

 

[Tenacious D]

Kaz has remarked in at least one interview that he intends to have the bots drive as much like humans as possible. In Prologue, a bot or two make newb mistakes, as if they haven't practiced the track before.

In real life races though, the drivers do drive very well, sticking to the racing line, and don't make all that many mistakes other than collisions. There are late braking incidents, the occasional missed turn that goes too wide, but really, they don't happen all that often. I hope people don't complain about the bots being too perfect if the game is much like real racing.

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

Kaz has remarked in at least one interview that he intends to have the bots drive as much like humans as possible. In Prologue, a bot or two make newb mistakes, as if they haven't practiced the track before.

In real life races though, the drivers do drive very well, sticking to the racing line, and don't make all that many mistakes other than collisions. There are late braking incidents, the occasional missed turn that goes too wide, but really, they don't happen all that often. I hope people don't complain about the bots being too perfect if the game is much like real racing.

but in GT5p the ai would run wide and spin out all the time..

 

[GPR]

Kaz has remarked in at least one interview that he intends to have the bots drive as much like humans as possible. In Prologue, a bot or two make newb mistakes, as if they haven't practiced the track before.

In real life races though, the drivers do drive very well, sticking to the racing line, and don't make all that many mistakes other than collisions. There are late braking incidents, the occasional missed turn that goes too wide, but really, they don't happen all that often. I hope people don't complain about the bots being too perfect if the game is much like real racing.

I am well aware that real racing drivers do drive vey well and few mistakes are often made. Thats fine. I just think the AI should also have a little more human soul when driving against each other, clean is good if you're making ground on somone but once your near enough for a overtake oppotunity most drivers get a little adventourous to try something.

Not that its an issue in longer races but if your race happens to be only 2 or 3 laps thats like a mad dash were you'd expect there to be lots of crazy action as people need to take bigger risks and fast to get ahead in such a sort amount of laps.

 

[CoolColJ]

GT's AI is not as robotic as you think. People seem to think GT's AI all drive in lines, don't battle/overtake, swap places or make mistakes, well here is video that proves otherwise, and the full GT5 will be even better I'm sure


Arcade mode, 16 car race. AI level 75, default for this car. Pro physics. Started from 8th.
I'm driving the metallic grey Nissan GT-R which is a relatively easy car to drive. S2 tyres, stock power, tuned suspension and using a Driving Force GT wheel.


Starting halfway through the 1st lap

1) tuned Lotus Elise tries to dice with me at the bottom of the track
2) onto the straight - do the cars look like they're all in a straight line?
3) at the back, red F40 wobbles around a bit on the straight following some evasive action
4) 3 cars abreast into the braking zone at the end of the straight
5) Audi R8 runs wide at the bottom of the track
6) Same R8 tries to dive up the inside going into the first turn of lap 3

And you'll see cars changing places throughout the race

[YOUTUBEHD]Jt_oXAAJlyE[/YOUTUBEHD]

 

[RedSuinit]

GT's AI is not as robotic as you think. People seem to think GT's AI all drive in lines, don't battle/overtake, swap places or make mistakes, well here is video that proves otherwise, and the full GT5 will be even better I'm sure


Arcade mode, 16 car race. AI level 75, default for this car. Pro physics. Started from 8th.
I'm driving the metallic grey Nissan GT-R which is a relatively easy car to drive. S2 tyres, stock power, tuned suspension and using a Driving Force GT wheel.


Starting halfway through the 1st lap

1) tuned Lotus Elise tries to dice with me at the bottom of the track
2) onto the straight - do the cars look like they're all in a straight line?
3) at the back, red F40 wobbles around a bit on the straight following some evasive action
4) 3 cars abreast into the braking zone at the end of the straight
5) Audi R8 runs wide at the bottom of the track
6) Same R8 tries to dive up the inside going into the first turn of lap 3

And you'll see cars changing places throughout the race

[YOUTUBEHD]Jt_oXAAJlyE[/YOUTUBEHD]

I know, I have fantastic races like these quite often in GT5p. People just dumb down the AI to the point that it is easy to win because they don't want a real challenge.

 

[Tenacious D]

but in GT5p the ai would run wide and spin out all the time..

You need to watch the above video. I've had lots of races like this too when I've played with the difficulty, making it not quite impossible but a good fight to win. The GT5P bots are much better than people give them credit for, and is why I fell in love with offline racing all over again.

 

[GPR]

GT's AI is not as robotic as you think. People seem to think GT's AI all drive in lines, don't battle/overtake, swap places or make mistakes, well here is video that proves otherwise, and the full GT5 will be even better I'm sure


Arcade mode, 16 car race. AI level 75, default for this car. Pro physics. Started from 8th.
I'm driving the metallic grey Nissan GT-R which is a relatively easy car to drive. S2 tyres, stock power, tuned suspension and using a Driving Force GT wheel.


Starting halfway through the 1st lap

1) tuned Lotus Elise tries to dice with me at the bottom of the track
2) onto the straight - do the cars look like they're all in a straight line?
3) at the back, red F40 wobbles around a bit on the straight following some evasive action
4) 3 cars abreast into the braking zone at the end of the straight
5) Audi R8 runs wide at the bottom of the track
6) Same R8 tries to dive up the inside going into the first turn of lap 3

And you'll see cars changing places throughout the race

[YOUTUBEHD]Jt_oXAAJlyE[/YOUTUBEHD]

Hmm, interesting it did seem quite varied in your example there. And to think of it now I have noticed the AI is much better in GT5P than it was in GT4.

I wonder how much variance there is between a low AI toughness as compared to a high level. I've raced a couple times at around the 50 level just for a lazy easy race and other times had it on 100 but never took note of the action difference in the AI except for the obvious difference in speed and drive ability.

I think maybe the differences in what would be nice compared to what its at now are just small things like seeing somone contend with some under or oversteer or not quite hitting the right apex (not intentionally as to take a different line as they do atm.)

Or maybe I'm just being too fussy. Who knows how much better they have made it. How ever much it ain't going put me off the game thats for sure, i'd be fine with GT5P level stuff.

 

[Zer0]

Prologue's AI deserve more credit than much people want to give.

I'm in the yellow vette. Notice at 0:28 the AI NSX trying to do a double lane overtake and then regretting because my car is approaching at much faster speed.



Details like this are a gigantic jump over previous GT and the Prologue is plenty of them. I'm sure this time the AI will be one of the best.

 

[KC_HIX]

I agree that the AI is much much better than before (nice video btw ), however, I didn't notice any cars taking a defensive line to block your overtakes. If someone comes flying up behind you, you take a defensive line into the corners to make overtaking as difficult as possible - don't you?

I agree though, you can have some great races offline against the AI on GT5P.

 

[Zer0]

If someone comes flying up behind you, you take a defensive line into the corners to make overtaking as difficult as possible - don't you?

The AI in the Prologue is more 'track day' oriented than race and Nascar will be in GT5 so I'm sure we are going to see some defensive AI.

Also I hope to hear some news about the two levels of AI announced years back similar to the professional physics in Prologue.

 

[witham]

IN some of the new mimaximax videos the AI have been crashing on there own and there has be several noticed cases of bolcking from the AI but the AI isn't to keen to overtake anouther AI car

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

IN some of the new mimaximax videos the AI have been crashing on there own and there has be several noticed cases of bolcking from the AI but the AI isn't to keen to overtake anouther AI car

This happened in gt5p to, the AI would not pass a car, unless it could pass on the outside....i was always wondering why the AI never passed on the inside... this almost seems to be fixed in the "Currently shown" GT5 build.

 

[CoolColJ]

This happened in gt5p to, the AI would not pass a car, unless it could pass on the outside....i was always wondering why the AI never passed on the inside... this almost seems to be fixed in the "Currently shown" GT5 build.

maybe because you have position on the track, they certainly pass me on the inside as seen in my vid

At least they respect your position. Thug AI in other games is not good AI. It's not hard to make an AI that hits you...

 

[lalaurentide]

The AI improvement is good and this is always welcomed, but AI won't weave to avoid being slipstreamed, won't take offensive overtaking maneuvers like braking late or faking it, won't get off their racing line and move to the inside prior to a turn to force an overtaking opponent to the outside in the turn, etc., and the famous Castrol Supra avoiding the Skyline still does it at the very last second when he clearly saw it standing in the racing line way before.

 

[RedSuinit]

The AI improvement is good and this is always welcomed, but AI won't weave to avoid being slipstreamed, won't take offensive overtaking maneuvers like braking late or faking it, won't get off their racing line and move to the inside prior to a turn to force an overtaking opponent to the outside in the turn, etc., and the famous Castrol Supra avoiding the Skyline still does it at the very last second when he clearly saw it standing in the racing line way before.

Not even close. The Nissan was all over the place, against the wall, then on the outside of the lane, then when the Supra started to get close, he hits the gas and gets in his lane.

 

[CoolColJ]

I've seen the AI weave in Prologue

Which is rather naff anyway, in real life.

 

[Griffith500]

Like this?



The funny thing is, Petrov may have been in a better position if he didn't follow Hamilton's every move - their cars are roughly equivalent in straight line speed.

Before people complain, I agree it was childish of Hamilton, but he was on a mission and clearly outclassed Petrov (impressive though he was); from the comments:

The rules state that you are only allowed to move once if someone behind you is overtaking you. You are also not allowed to move more than once in the breaking zone. Petrov wasn't in an overtaking situation he was following him. And hamilton moved once in the braking zone. It was legal (just). Thats the way Hamilton drives..and thats why hes such a good overtaker/ defensive driver.

Back on topic: I would find it hugely entertaining if the AI, varyingly, employed similar tactics. Perhaps they may just end up with a personality of their own (per "driver")...

 

[lalaurentide]

Not even close. The Nissan was all over the place, against the wall, then on the outside of the lane, then when the Supra started to get close, he hits the gas and gets in his lane.

At 2:20 into the replay, the Skyline is in the racing line for a good 5 seconds going backward, and even if it would have been there at the last second, the Supra should go on the right side of the road since the Skyline was relatively in the same spot [left side] for a good 10 seconds. Not to mention at 2:15, when he's stuck on the wall and the AI train pass by like drones, they should have taken some distance in case the Skyline reverse, even though a driver wouldn't reverse into traffic in real life, this is a game first and foremost and cannot injure or kill yourself, it happened before and will happen again, hell it happened in the replay, so it should be taken into consideration. All I'm saying is I'm happy but not impressed, the same way I don't expect the graphics to be that much better than Prologue or TimeTrial, I prefer to be realistic and satisfied or, better, surprised, than expecting too much and being deceived. As of now, nothing proves me otherwise.