The BBC F1 coverage thread (Legard out. Brundle and DC in.)

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by jammyozzy, Mar 20, 2008.

  1. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Traditionally, there are two roles in sports commentary: the everyman and the expert. The everyman is Joe Average, a commentator who might not have a detailed knoweldge of the sport, but is pointman for the whole show. James Allen and Jonathon Legard were previously the everyman in the commentary team. One of the reasons why they were so derided during their tenures is because the everyman has to keep talking. You can't have periods of dead air. And you don't get to think about it the way you do print journalism. If you read James Allen's blog and see some of the pre-recorded stuff he's doing for One HD in Australia, he's actually really good. I was very impressed with his commentary duing Friday practice in Melbourne because he had the right balance of content for newcomers and old hands alike.

    The other role is the expert, usually a former competitor (or, very occasionally, a coach) who can provide insight into how the sport runs. You don't want to over-use the expert too much, because then you risk isolating newcomers to the sport. Martin Brundle has traditionally been the expert, but now Coulthard is filling that role. One HD interviewed Brundle and Coulthard about their new roles, and Brundle said that when Legard was dropped from the commentary line-up, he didn't really consider stepping up to the lead comentator position to begin with. Then he considered that it had been fifteen years since he had raced, and that he hasn't actually driven over 40% of the circuits (Bahrain, Malaysia, China, Turkey, Valencia, Singapore, Yeongam, Greater Noida and Abu Dhabi), so while he's got the knowledge of Formula 1, he doesn't have the most recent knowledge the way Coulthard does. And it helps that they've both raced and worked together, so they know one another. I think Brundle is the perfect pointman for the commentary position: he's a former player, but he's been commentating long enough to be able to fill the everyman role.

    I admit I was initially concerned about having Brundle and Coulthard commentating together since they were both experts, but one hour of qualifying was enough to prove the BBC has got one of the best Formula 1 lineups in years.

    Now, if only there was a way to mute the One HD "commentators". Every time they come back from a commercial break, they offer their thoughts on what is happening. Well, we don't care what they think because what they think is rubbish. Every last one of them is an everyman, but they all keep trying to make out that they're experts. They not as bad as the days of Eddie Everywhere, but they're not much better.
     
  2. Robin

    Robin Premium

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    I agree with what you've said interludes and I had my reservations about the pairing but they work really well together and it could be the best paring in decades. Eventhough Brundle is supposed to be the everyman and DC is the expert I still think he could talk a bit moreand give the guy a break. If you look back Bundle even as the expert talked a fair amount. I did notice him trying to get DC to talk more, like when he said 'OK can you take us through the start replay' as if he was trying to coax something out of DC's mouth because he was silent!

    Luckily on normal BBC 1 and on the iPlayer you don't get the One HD team so its all good :sly:

    Robin.
     
  3. PeterJB

    PeterJB Premium

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    It was really strange having DC in, it was as if he was doing a pit lane report for the entire race! But certainly better than Legard.
     
  4. 725

    725

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    I thought the commentary was great both were entertaining and much better than the previous combination
     
  5. lmanion

    lmanion

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    DC is used to having the odd expert comment from the pitlane but he will come good as he finds his way over the next few GPs, I thought he made a very good start, it is a big jump to go from the odd comment to being one of the main commentators.
     
  6. LewyOs

    LewyOs

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    I thought they were both good, very natural.
    DC was a little quiet but when he does speak it is always something interesting and relevant.
    I'm sure he will progress well through the season.

    Great pairing.
     
  7. Touring Mars

    Touring Mars Moderator

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    Just watching 'Classic F1' on the BBC red button (well, Channel 301)... great stuff! They just showed highlights from the German GP 2000, where Barrichello came from nowhere for a spectacular win (and Schumacher crashed in Turn 1 of Lap 1). The commentary also had a classic Murray Walker comment: "Here comes the rain! Here comes the rain! Here comes the rain!! And there is the yellow and red flag, which indicates some form of moisture out on the track... and it's not difficult to guess what that is!"
     
  8. Ardius

    Ardius

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  9. Touring Mars

    Touring Mars Moderator

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    Cool :tup: I didn't see the beginning of the programme, so I didn't realise that they were chosen by a specific driver! I can see why Rubens picked Germany 2000 :sly:
     
  10. Akmuq

    Akmuq

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    Qualifying today is on the red button just so you all know.
     
  11. Hollidog

    Hollidog

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    I must say I like this new pairing much more than the old one. But it still annoys me to no end how much bias they have towards the British drivers in the field, not being British myself, this really annoys me. In qualifying yesterday both of the commentators where stating how there were 4 Germans in the top ten and 6 in F1 as a whole, then it cut to a shot of Jenson and Lewis, and DC said "and there are some good British boys". Seemed a bit off to me.
    Another thing is they arent very good at commentating when there is nothing to commentate about,
    For example (SPOILER ALERT) at the end of the Turkish GP when the RBR guy was standing there and both DC and MB had no idea who it was, and they just kind of mumbled to eachother about who they thought it was, and DC said something along the lines of "I have no idea who that is". Pretty unprofessional if you ask me.
     
  12. Ardius

    Ardius

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    1. There will always be British bias...its after all the BBC, primarily targeted at the British public who will naturally be (for the most part) following the British drivers. You really cannot complain on this because it is no where near as bad as ITV or many other broadcasters in a lot of countries. Honestly, the BBC generally do a decent job of talking about the field as a whole, its just circumstance that there are two British drivers at the top right now. That very comment was obviously tongue-in-cheek from DC. Pointing out that there are a lot of German drivers is not bias.
    Honestly, you can't have watched much F1 on BBC compared with other broadcasters if you think this is an issue.

    2. Eh, so what? I don't really care about commentary before a podium celebration, probably the least important part of the entire weekend. While the time when nothing is happening is when a good commentator comes alive, its the hardest part and lets be fair here, MB and DC have only done a few races so far.
     
  13. SaberFire

    SaberFire

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    If you think MB & DC are biased, it's a good thing you weren't around for the ITV era. My ears still hurt from the time Button won the Hungarian GP.
     
  14. thesrdic

    thesrdic

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    Is it me or is the beeb not putting the turkish gp on the iPlayer? It says not available when normaly they put the whole race on.. quali wasn't up there either. I had to go out all day so missed the whole thing :( Id rather watch the whole thing back as well, rather than just the highlights
     
  15. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    Qualifying and the post race forum are on the iplayer. Click on sport. No sign of the race though.
     
  16. F1 fan

    F1 fan Premium

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    It's nowhere near as bad as the (now retired)commentator that couldn't go an entire England game without talking about them winning the world cup in '66. Usually, he couldn't go the first few minutes, let alone the game.

    The British bias does annoy me too. I'm originally from Scotland, currently in Canada and may either stay in Canada, move to Japan (my girlfriend is Japanese) or (most likely option) move to Germany. To be fair, the bbc F1 team aren't too bad for it although (very)occasionally, they wear their bias on their sleeves.

    I find autosport (magazine, not .com) infuriating for it, which is why I eventually stopped buying it. I think the final nail in the coffin was in a 2010 season preview, they mentioned Mclaren, mentioned how exciting the lineup was as they had the two most recent world champions (I had no issue with this) and I quote "plus, the fact that they're both british makes this lineup exciting". This comment I found to be ridiculous. I can't understand how anyone can be excited as to what country an athlete is from. I can maybe understand people supporting their home team, but I find it inexcusable that a (supposedly) impartial publication, which is sold all over the world (I skim it every week at a Toronto newsagent, but no longer buy it)thinks such bias is acceptable. Nor is it good journalism. It's basic discrimination.
     
  17. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    It's a British magazine. Who did you expect them to support? Yes, sometimes it gets too much but that's the same everywhere in the world mate.

    John Motson is the football commentator you are referring to and I couldn't stand him. Me and a couple of friends used to guess how long it would take for him to mention it!
     
  18. homeforsummer

    homeforsummer Premium

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    Really? People complaining about bias?

    Have you never watched any other sport? I can't think of a single one where I've not seen bias towards the country in question. Hell, I've seen sports with commentators from each nationality of the country competing and they even show rival biases then, next to each other in the commentary box!

    It's also pretty short-sighted basing your opinion of a magazine like Autosport on a few comments. I guess you should ignore all the glowing interviews and reviews of Schumacher, Loeb, Solberg, Muller, Prost, Berger, Kristensen, Montoya and other "foreign" sportsmen they've done over the years then? Because obviously, they're really not bothered about all those guys because they want the Brits to win...

    And saying it's discrimination is, frankly, bollocks. You'd best grab a dictionary for that one and swot up on the actual meaning of the word.
     
  19. SaberFire

    SaberFire

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    bollocks
    bol·locks
       /ˈbɒləks/ Show Spelled[bol-uhks]
    –noun
    1.
    ( used with a plural verb ) Vulgar . ballocks.
    2.
    ( used with a singular or plural verb ) British Vulgar . rubbish; nonsense; claptrap (often used interjectionally).
    Use bollocks in a Sentence
    See images of bollocks
    Search bollocks on the Web
    Origin:
    1735–45; variant of ballocks

    :sly:
     
  20. Sureboss

    Sureboss Premium

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    Really enjoying this years commentary, the presentation, generally, has been of a very high standard. I'm struggling to fault it.
     
  21. Touring Mars

    Touring Mars Moderator

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    Same here... I think this is the best coverage we've ever had in the UK, by a distance.
     
  22. homeforsummer

    homeforsummer Premium

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    Very droll, but of course I was referring to the word "discrimination" :p
     
  23. F1 fan

    F1 fan Premium

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    I expect an impartial publication. The ice hockey magazines in north america don't discriminate between America and Canada... Unless I'm very much mistaken lol.

    I think everyone did that... I didn't because I don't watch football, but I was aware of the game (i.e. how long will it take John Motson to Mention it).

    I am well aware of the word discrimination. People blindly supporting others by nationality is discriminatory as you are judging people by their origins... I can maybe let it slide for events like the olympics, but this isn't A1GP here. I never understood the whole "you must support people from your country" attitude. Personally, my country was S*** to me so I left it.

    I especially don't want to read it in a magazine. It's just something that personally grinds my gears. I can fully understand how a team having the two most recent world champions (at the time) could be an exciting prospect, but I don't see how their nationality makes any difference. I don't judge people by where they are from. I think of the individual and who they are. I've met A******s from all over the world... Including britain. I've also met nice people from all over the world, including britain.

    Am I so wrong for wanting the worlds biggest motorsport magazine to be impartial? Being born and raised in Britain, I am tired of the Bias... I can't imagine how other people feel when they hear/read people going on about the British drivers.
     
  24. Ardius

    Ardius

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    My only criticism of the BBC this year is that the F1 Forum is pretty bad...nothing like 2009 where they would visit different team's hospitality and interview several people. Its just an extended post-race comments section now.

    It used to be nice when they would let people tweet in questions for whomever they said they were having on. Now the tweets mentioned are just general comments on the race and Jake and EJ just chat. The analysis by Brundle is pretty good, but then he used to do this before while also being part of the discussion, now he is hidden away in the BBC lorry.

    Also Ted Kravtiz is becoming criminally under-used, although to be fair there isn't always a scoop-story to be had. He is very good at spotting and explaining technical stuff. Perhaps the BBC need to hire a technical pundit like when Gascoyne filled in for EJ that time?
     
  25. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    You are mistaken. North America is the USA AND Canada. It's a continent not a country. :sly:

    British magazines will be biased in favour of British things.

    French magazines will be biased in favour of French things.

    German magazines will be biased in favour of German things.

    Japanese magazines will be biased in favour of Japanese things.

    That is the way things are whether you like it or not.
     
  26. SaberFire

    SaberFire

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    I agree; Ted Kravitz isn't being utilized as well as he could be. To add to that, we need more Lee McKenzie; I thought she did a rather good job at Japan, even given the circumstances, and she has much more charisma than Jake in my opinion.

    Honourable mention goes to the 5live crew; Anthony Davidson and David Croft provide pretty interesting commentary for the practise sessions; pretty impressive given how little is going on at the time :p
     
  27. F1 fan

    F1 fan Premium

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    I am well aware of this. I said North America as I was not sure of the origin of the magazine I read... i.e. US or Canadian.

    Not always. And it would be nice for people to be impartial... It's a key element of being a journalist. It shows a lack of integrity. Especially as the magazine gets sold all over the world. Why do people have to be subjected to national bias? I'll give you an example. I've been (dragged)to one football game in my life. Scotland Versus Italy some years back. The crowd were chanting "we hate england" the entire time. Journalists going against the basic journalistic principles and displaying bias fuel this kind of behaviour.

    We can whine and B**** about this all day but we aren't going to get anywhere.

    Agreed. A lot of my friends switched to the 5 live commentary when Legard was part of the bbc team. I'd love to listen to the 5 live crew, but can't here in Canada.
     
  28. Ardius

    Ardius

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    At the end of the day though, you are trying to produce a product for an audience. You want to keep people interested, to buy your product. The average person will have heard of Hamilton and Button because they are British so they are most likely going to be tuning into to hear how those two are doing. As long as they don't focus only on those two, I have no problem with them being mentioned a little bit more. I woud rather the sport be popular by somewhat pandering to those who only have a passing interest than them being totally unbiased and potentially losing the BBC coverage and the sport being stuck on Sky or whatever.

    I don't really care for patriotism these days and the irrational of focusing on people who happen to be born near you. But I do understand there are a lot of people who do tune in just for this, and both Autosport and the BBC are produced for the British public.

    I'd also argue that it is always going to sound odd to people outside of the UK. Just as if I were to read a publication or watch commentary from Canada, Spain, or wherever. It will always be written/shown from that country's point of view, even if its not being overly biased at all, the small little comments can be taken the wrong way. Would you really take issue with that comment in Autosport if it had applied to two Italians, for example? Perhaps you are taking the comment out of context and they were referring to them being British being good for the team, as its obviously easier getting on with people of the same nationality? Or because of the potential bonus to the major sponsors, Vodafone, who get double the impact in the UK?
     
  29. Sureboss

    Sureboss Premium

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    Yeah, football fans really need journalists to help them hate their rivals! :lol:
     
  30. Robin

    Robin Premium

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    I also agree that we need more of her and as you stated Japan showed she is very capable, I personally wish she would have Jake's job.