serversurfer View Post
So no, when GT5 launches with its "inferior" damage modeling, no one is going to care.
Yes, they will. Majority's expectations will fall to the ground, along with this argument.
serversurfer View Post
Just like they didn't care when all of the other GT games came out with no damage at all.
I bet they will care, they have been whining about it for months right now.
serversurfer View Post
Want some proof that no one cares about damage?
Want some proof that proves you wrong? This thread. "No one cares" is a very general argument. Though I do not care about damage, that doesn't mean I don't want GT to improve, whether in physics, graphics, implementing of damage, etc.
It's a game. As it's Forza. As it's any other racing game. No need to argue about a game, it's just not worth it. Even if it's GT.
And yet, you can't seem to stop arguing about it.
I know I'm stepping in here, but I think this needs to be said. There is a portion of racing game fans to whom damage is crucial, as well as sound, physics, customization of street cars if they have them, the form the career takes, etc, but damage is a sticking point because of the incredible power these systems offer now, both PCs and consoles - Wii aside.
But only a portion. Codename L mentions proof, but he seems to overlook the details of the situation. While GT Planet has more than 100,000 members, there are perhaps 50 who get vocal about wanting damage, and maybe 200 who bother to post in damage polls. This isn't a very large percentage.
Take the sales of Forza 2 and Prologue. In a bit over two years, FM2 racked up about 4 million units sold, and encouraged sales of 360s a bit. I bought an "Elite" just to play Forza 2. However, the "demo" GT5 Prologue with no damage at all was a platinum seller just from
pre-orders, and in less time on a smaller user base of PS3s, sold as many copies, and bumped sales of PS3s even more. Would a damage build have increased sales of Prologue even more? Perhaps a few thousand, perhaps a hundred thousand, but I'm betting a more robust online system would have mattered much more. Prologues of Gran Turismo have never sold in this range, and it's obvious to me that people were so starved to get a taste of GT5 that they didn't care what it lacked.
So what does this imply for GT5? I think most of you without an axe to grind know the answer.
Yes, damage matters to racing fans these days, but it looks to me that fans of Gran Turismo are engrossed over something else: the whole experience. Gran Turismo isn't just about racing. It's about the experience of owning, maintaining, modding and racing cars. It's about the experience of collecting cars. It's about the experience of admiring motorsports. It's about watching replays of yours and others' races and saving them to be watched even more later. It's about taking photos and collecting them, and sharing them. Gran Turismo has only had a piddling damage implementation in one game, GT2, and most have even forgotten it exists.
Now admittedly this is a new age (
at the term). Damage matters to a point, just as the car list, race mod, liveries, career mode, online, sound, weather, night racing, particle effects, reverse lights and skidmarks among a few dozen factors. But as far as "needs" go, damage seems to be an easily forgiven subject. Ferrari Challenge has a pathetic damage build, but no one seems to care much. Forza's is slightly better, but you can keep trucking in Forza with a collision that would end a race in a PC sim set on simulation damage, and even sims still pale in comparison to real life.
What's truly funny about all this is that we're getting damage in GT5, which we know only roughly what it even means for us, and yet some people argue heatedly over how disappointing it will be as if they owned the game already. I think everyone needs to chill on that point, and many others, and instead of slagging GT5 for something it hasn't even done yet, much like a woman might do, just keep hoping for the best.
Of course if it doesn't meet your expectations when you get it, I doubt I'll even be around for a while to notice.
I must say, I have seen my share of bugs in the years I have been playing Forza 2 (and other games), but the one thing I never had fault with is the livery editor in Forza 2. I have made some masterpieces (in my mind only
), and have yet to experience any problems with the editor or results.
A few Forza fans have said this, but for your perusal, I point out a few posts from the Forza boards:
Layer shifting in the decal editor.
Duff Man D: Just wondering if any of the devs could let all us painters who are still persisting with this annoying glitch know if anything is going to be done about it anytime soon. Scoreboard & Auction House problems have now been corrected but this seems to have been overlooked & while it may not seem like a major glitch to some it is becoming increasingly worse, at least in my case, with each new car I do.
I'm getting pretty sick of re-aligning numerous decals everytime I switch on the 360 to play the game, some of which can take a good half hour to sort out & no doubt so are the people who are buying my cars which have locked paints & can do nothing about once they've shifted.
An answer would be appreciated by someone in the know from T10 as the car i'm working on at the minute is using the max limit of layers on all sides & after doing just the n/s i'm about to jack it in because i'm doing work on the car that has been done several times before & is now becoming a boring chore rather than the fun it's supposed to be.
Nigel Fox (me): Same here. Turn 10 needs to fix the bugs, and this one is seriously annoying. Having a locked car from the auction house with a stunning paint job ruined by a layer shift of several elements is a travesty. Duff's work is among the best, and I can imagine the headaches this is causing him. DLC is great and all, but Forza 2 is still buggy, and you guys need to act like you care about us and not more of our money, and adress them.
Cr1mzonChrisUK: I agree completely.......carbon fibre is awful when it comes to layer shifting......i cant get it back in the right place at all so i have to start all over again !!!!
*T10, please fix this problem !*
SFF1 Schumacher: +1 bud but good luck geting a reply from T10 or anything done about this, theres prob more chance of me getting a drive in Schumachers F248 lol.
I've posted about this loads of times but as usual with these people....no reply...i guess they figure if they ignore us for long enough we'll get bored and drop it...it really is slack and it has to be said ONCE AGAIN...this game has the worst bug support i've ever seen.
Its so *** fustrating, like you im in the process of re doing my design because for the 100th time all the vinyls have moved and almost every logo on my car has corrupted and it looks horrible, in fact its so bad im having to re do the complete design all over again and im not happy about it at all, it sucks and then even when all the vinyls are ok and you go into a race the vinyls all move again so taking any photos is pointless as they just look rubbish, then when you go back to the menu and look at the car everything is ok until eventually they move and dont return so you have to re do them all over again.
Now many people say its no prob just re apply the design from your catalog, but even a saved catalog design that looked perfect when you saved it eventually corrupts as well so you cant just re apply it..
so T10..... Please for the love of god sort your act out, and get this fixed or dont you G.A.S now that you have our money??
Nigel Fox: It seems like everything Microsoft touches gets bug-itis. Maybe the 360 has a registry like Windows that's a huge text file, and the minute you start the thing it begins corrupting itself.
It would be nice if someone like Che would let us know they're looking into the problem. Or do they think decals shift around on race cars in real life?
SFF1 Schumacher: the only thing these guys are thinking about is what they are going to spend all the money on that they have made from us by selling us this a rushed, unfinshed buggy as hell game....
But nah its not the game its all of our 360's that are causing these issuse even though every other game works fine!
And what I also grew to hate... the 360 crashes just scrolling through the garage.
Headdogg81: Straight from the FAQ...
Q: My game freezes when I go into my Career Garage? What can I do to fix this?
A: We have seen reports of this happening, and have determined that this issue occurs when users have a very large collection of cars with customized liveries. In order to prevent your game from freezing you can press “X” in the garage to bring up a list of cars that will allow you to navigate without having to load all the individual paintjobs. We also recommend that you use the Design Catalogue if you have duplicate cars with different paintjobs. You can save designs into the catalog and delete the duplicate car, thus clearing un-necessary cars from your garage.
Sucks I admit too. T10 are obviously aware of it but it doesnt look like they will be fixing the issue from this.
Nigel Fox: It would help if T10 would JUST implement a delay in loading images UNTIL you let go of the direction pad for scrolling.
It doesn't matter how slowly I take it, every three trips to the garage, like clockwork, it crashes. I thought the point of the garage was to have thumbs of our cars so we didn't HAVE to resort to shortcuts. And now they tell us "just have one copy of our cars"?? So what are we supposed to do about all those locked liveries from the Auction House? Crack 'em and hack 'em?
The 360 may not be a super PC running Vista (thank God), but it's evidently also not the ultimate gaming rig. It has plenty of bugs and warts besides this one.
Storm of Souls: A massive collcection lol i had 1 custom car and about 40 normal ones and its crash's sort it out turn 10 it is most annoying
Oh yes, and one more thing about the GT vs Forza market.
There is some competition, and there is some overlap in the market. A few people here, like me, will be getting both games and have said so, even though some of us don't enjoy one game as much. However, the overlap is kind of limited to the American/Canadian, UK and Australian markets. Ms has never had global appeal like the other systems have, and the PS3 has outsold the 360 within the same timeframe due to this global appeal. In other words, in almost three years, more PS3s were sold than 360s. FW3 might sell five million or so, but there really is no telling how many PS3s and copies of Gran Turismo 5 will sell, especially in a bundle.
