The Damage Thread - Best Buy Demo, Now Thats More Like It!

[Spagetti69]

Indeed that vid is more encouraging than some of the melted looking pics doing the rounds.
Credit where it is due.

 

[Kryz11]

So, to conclude this discussion plagued with constructive criticsm.

If above is not the procedural real-time damage, than nothing is. If above is not from demo probably far from final code, than nothing is. If above is the showcase of things to come, than we're very happy people.

This looks more than good, it looks incredible. Arguing about acomplishing something on this scale with all other elements of the actual code on almost 5 year old hardware, is nothing but deliberate crapping in order to make yourself smart.

However, internet ego is an intresting thing so I presume the constructive criticsm will continue to copy/past same "arguments" all over again, again, again, again and again. And again after that.

Yeah Seems like old demo because no skid marks. But who knows. But for me, I do belive the final damage will be tweaked along with internal damage. Yeah people worry too much because of what they see.

I remember I was playing a BETA of a game and I hated the game. Then I play the DEMO a week before the release and it was a perfect game for me. Now I bought that game today, and feel in love with it.

People dont conclude a game few months before it's release.

 

[wajdi1977]

^^^ Oh how I glad that I'm not only who thinks that damage is good!

Edited: But I've noticed that rear-view mirrors are still clipping through wall I really, really hope they got it fixed!

Fixed!now don't exaggerate!

 

[cuco33]

I don't understand the continued death grip over the graphical fidelity of the damage model.. The most important thing regarding a damage system isn't the visual fluff, its the affects to the car's performance after an incident, regardless of 5th to 2nd engine braking or bumper car wall riding...

 

[wajdi1977]

I don't understand the continued death grip over the graphical fidelity of the damage model.. The most important thing regarding a damage system isn't the visual fluff, its the affects to the car's performance after an incident, regardless of 5th to 2nd engine braking or bumper car wall riding...

👍👍👍👍👍

 

[mr_VOLCANO]

I don't understand the continued death grip over the graphical fidelity of the damage model.. The most important thing regarding a damage system isn't the visual fluff, its the affects to the car's performance after an incident, regardless of 5th to 2nd engine braking or bumper car wall riding...

Exactly! 👍

 

[Killa Aaron]

I don't understand the continued death grip over the graphical fidelity of the damage model.. The most important thing regarding a damage system isn't the visual fluff, its the affects to the car's performance after an incident, regardless of 5th to 2nd engine braking or bumper car wall riding...

Amen. 👍

 

[Sam48]

I don't think it's the final damage build. 👍

I wouldn't be so certain. I agree with Leadfoot53.

 

[witham]

Love the damage to this enzo from 9.00 onwards


or the front of this 458 it looks like a croc!

 

[Antti-san]

But why aren't the doors flapping wide open? Seriously though, I'm glad that we finally have actual damage to the body, instead of just hanging panels! 👍

 

[ICEMAN_ZIDANE]

Wow the damage in the best buy demo is awesome
It's real damage not like in other games
I was 100% sure that Sony will not show the whole damage 1-2 months before the realase date
some of the gtp members said that the damage in gt5 is not good (in the gamescom demo ) but i knew that they showed only a little part of the damage
this is GT , they never say or show much XD Mr. Kaz style :]

Antti-san: We don't know how the real nascar car crashed into a wall, that's the reason why there are differences (but it is very close to the reality )
Mr Kaz said that we will get real damage , if you make a crash with 100kmh then you will see the differences between a crash with 110kmh ...

 

[the.hatter]

I don't understand the continued death grip over the graphical fidelity of the damage model.. The most important thing regarding a damage system isn't the visual fluff, its the affects to the car's performance after an incident, regardless of 5th to 2nd engine braking or bumper car wall riding...

Well put!

Any hands on commentary from the latest store demos regarding the car's performance with damage?

How progressive is it, where as more damage = more performance drop. Is a love tap with another driver treated the same as slamming into a wall? Etc. ...

Thanks!

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

The funny thing is that most of them are Forza players and never complained about its damage model:

...

The damage in the Forza 3 video is set to "Cosmetic". If you set it to full simulation your car will be destroyed in 1 major hit. Engine will not work with smoke pouring out, car wont shift, car wont turn, the car usually wont even move at all. It will be totalled. Cosmetic allows you to have fun with collisions without destroying your car.

So far both games have very similar damage but the damage modeling in GT5 looks better and has come a long way. The panels warp and get much more disfigured. I am assuming the GT5 videos are also set to cosmetic because that Nascar in the GT5 video took several massive 200mph hits and kept moving. In fact it hardly took any damage in the first hit. So it looks like GT5 is much more generous with the damge. (unless its set to cosmetic) You try that in Forza 3 and your car will be totalled in 1 hit. Again, that Forza 3 video is set to cosmetic damage not full simulation damage. This also makes me nervous about the GT5 AI. He was parked an entire lap ahead and still the AI came around and rammed him in the GT5 video.

Overall it is great to finally see some serious damage in GT5. Huge improvement over all the other GT5 damage videos. 👍

 

[Patrocles]

Wow the damage in the best buy demo is awesome
It's real damage not like in other games
I was 100% sure that Sony will not show the whole damage 1-2 months before the realase date
some of the gtp members said that the damage in gt5 is not good (in the gamescom demo ) but i knew that they showed only a little part of the damage
this is GT , they never say or show much XD Mr. Kaz style :]

Antti-san: We don't know how the real nascar car crashed into a wall, that's the reason why there are differences (but it is very close to the reality )
Mr Kaz said that we will get real damage , if you make a crash with 100kmh then you will see the differences between a crash with 110kmh ...

Very cool! I need to get over to a BestBuy this week and check out the GT5 demo!

 

[Zer0]

This looks more than good, it looks incredible. Arguing about acomplishing something on this scale with all other elements of the actual code on almost 5 year old hardware, is nothing but deliberate crapping in order to make yourself smart.

However, internet ego is an intresting thing so I presume the constructive criticsm will continue to copy/past same "arguments" all over again, again, again, again and again. And again after that.

👍

Even the most optimistic GT fan never expected a GT5 loaded with all the current features and a jump of quality so great in all levels respect to GT4.

And to think that the first complainers only waited for a GT4 with better graphics, sigh. The Neverending Story.

 

[maxpontiac]

So, with arrival of famous constructive critics at this point this Damage thread have officialy became new Standard/Premium thread.

Plague.

You think? Some of them are nothing more then forum trolls.

No matter how hard they try to deny it.

 

[Jump_Ace]

Only problem is that this is a racer. If you want to go that realistic that means that any crash beyond 50mph will result in a race ending crash, not your tires swerving to the left or right or whatever you stated.

If that's the case, so be it. But my main point being to practice clean driving, if there is one big crash; you're out, like in real life. However, that also means that the AI should drive the same way and understand that it could risk their race too and avoid contact if at all possible(riiiigh, I won't hold my breath on that one). But I think you are right, PD won't go a lot in that direction, probably in the middle somewhere and likely not make the car un-drivable under any circumstances.

Jerome

 

[Tornado]

It looks pretty good. There are some things that are hopefully sorted out, but as it stands right now it would be acceptable for the final game.

 

[Devedander]

If above is not the procedural real-time damage, than nothing is.

It definitely seems to be procedural damage, but just like anything else, that doesn't mean it can't be done wrong or poorly. In that particular video it looks great. But there are plenty of videos in which the damage in FM looks great and spot on too.

If above is the showcase of things to come, than we're very happy people.

I agree, if that is what is in the future for GT5, then great! But if those weird zig zag bumpers are also in the future... not so great.

Remember to be fair one must take the good with the bad into consideration.

Arguing about acomplishing something on this scale with all other elements of the actual code on almost 5 year old hardware, is nothing but deliberate crapping in order to make yourself smart.

I dunno about you but I have sat through years of being told by any number of sources how awesome GT and PD and KY are and how masterful they are and godly and how this will be awesome and the PS3 is superior hardware etc etc. Now I am not saying pulling off GT5 doesn't show some noteable skill and ability, but to suddenly turn around and blame the PS3 hardware as a crippling point as "poor PD only have 5 year old tech to work with" is at least a little dismissive in and of itself.

To be honest, it is quite tiring to be constantly told why you are wrong in definite fact form as response to a logical and rational reasoning to the contrary, only to have smoeone later tell you you are wrong again for a fact that completely negates the previous fact.

GT will be awesome, it's PD and KY and they never release anything but perfection across the board: FACT!!!

then later

There just wasn't enough time to make all the cars premium and the PS3 is aging hardware, you are unreasonable for expecting more: FACT!!!

The problem with GT fans is similar to the problem with many churchgoers: they will state as fact whatever supports their current view. At one time God says being gay is a sin, but then when that's not a popular view anymore, they reverse and say "Jesus says love all"... it must be fun to pick and choose your platform when you like... I wouldn't know.

However, internet ego is an intresting thing so I presume the constructive criticsm will continue to copy/past same "arguments" all over again, again, again, again and again. And again after that.

Yes and the denialists will continue to complain and copy paste: "Why do you complain, why can't you appreciate the good things and why can't you see it couldn't have been better?" when indeed they don't realize that one can find fault with some parts but truly appreciatre another and understanding that ultimately they couldn't have done more doesn't mean it's not legitimately to point out the shortcomings all the same.

Basically those who seem most offended by less than stellar impressions are making their own beds... they go around prodding other members only to complain about their responses and blame them for holding their ground.

Ironically they are doing to the forum what they claim the "trolls" are doing to PD: They go around whining about what they don't like to see incesantly and can't just accept that that's just the viewpoint some people have and that's part of being on a forum while simultaneously ignoring anything positive those same people might have said...

You think? Some of them are nothing more then forum trolls.

No matter how hard they try to deny it.

You do realize a fanboy is a type of troll? Or is that what you were talking about?

 

[FLASH48]

It definitely seems to be procedural damage, but just like anything else, that doesn't mean it can't be done wrong or poorly. In that particular video it looks great. But there are plenty of videos in which the damage in FM looks great and spot on too.



I agree, if that is what is in the future for GT5, then great! But if those weird zig zag bumpers are also in the future... not so great.

Remember to be fair one must take the good with the bad into consideration.



I dunno about you but I have sat through years of being told by any number of sources how awesome GT and PD and KY are and how masterful they are and godly and how this will be awesome and the PS3 is superior hardware etc etc. Now I am not saying pulling off GT5 doesn't show some noteable skill and ability, but to suddenly turn around and blame the PS3 hardware as a crippling point as "poor PD only have 5 year old tech to work with" is at least a little dismissive in and of itself.

To be honest, it is quite tiring to be constantly told why you are wrong in definite fact form as response to a logical and rational reasoning to the contrary, only to have smoeone later tell you you are wrong again for a fact that completely negates the previous fact.

GT will be awesome, it's PD and KY and they never release anything but perfection across the board: FACT!!!

then later

There just wasn't enough time to make all the cars premium and the PS3 is aging hardware, you are unreasonable for expecting more: FACT!!!

The problem with GT fans is similar to the problem with many churchgoers: they will state as fact whatever supports their current view. At one time God says being gay is a sin, but then when that's not a popular view anymore, they reverse and say "Jesus says love all"... it must be fun to pick and choose your platform when you like... I wouldn't know.



Yes and the denialists will continue to complain and copy paste: "Why do you complain, why can't you appreciate the good things and why can't you see it couldn't have been better?" when indeed they don't realize that one can find fault with some parts but truly appreciatre another and understanding that ultimately they couldn't have done more doesn't mean it's not legitimately to point out the shortcomings all the same.

Basically those who seem most offended by less than stellar impressions are making their own beds... they go around prodding other members only to complain about their responses and blame them for holding their ground.

Ironically they are doing to the forum what they claim the "trolls" are doing to PD: They go around whining about what they don't like to see incesantly and can't just accept that that's just the viewpoint some people have and that's part of being on a forum while simultaneously ignoring anything positive those same people might have said...



You do realize a fanboy is a type of troll? Or is that what you were talking about?

Just like someone doesn't have a PS3, or is more or less negative on anything related to GT5! That is also a TROLL.

 

[amar212]

Devander, you wrote two books on GTPlanet in last 60 days, but I would really use a humblest plea at your behalf to stop explaining over, and over, and over again your point of view to GT5 issues.

You do not add anything new to discussion, you just step-repeat same things over and over again and you very succesfully destroy all other people discussions with your step-repeat pattern.

Your way of thinking and language implies you're not a youngster, so I really do not understand the purpose of your crusade. All members here are aware of your points - you have sucessfuly passed million characters mark with your recent posts - but you could really stop now.

Your posts, multiquotes anr epical war against infidels has reach limits of good taste, really.

Of course, this is open forum, you can do what you want under AUP rules, so do what you want. But I really encourage you to open your own thread, something like "Official Devander Thread of Explanation of what is deeply wrong in GT5" and use it to spread your thoughts. It would be more coherent and you could be more focused on your points, while majority of the forum could peacefuly continue their deliberate blindness and life without actual knowledge of True Know.

And just for the clarification - I really share all your points and I agree with them 100%, bit even I am absolutely intimidated with yoir recent post-history. I hope you will not find this offensive, I have no other motives besides trying to be constructive critic on your behalf.

Regards!

 

[Tornado]

Just like someone doesn't have a PS3, or is more or less negative on anything related to GT5! That is also a TROLL.

Are there any actual examples of this type of member on GTP?

 

[FLASH48]

Are there any actual examples of this type of member on GTP?

Nope, just saying!

 

[Devedander]

You do not add anything new to discussion, you just step-repeat same things over and over again and you very succesfully destroy all other people discussions with your step-repeat pattern.

That would be because I constantly address the same type of people. The only thing I destroy is poor logic or irrational argument, granted I do that pretty regularly, and it's often similar statements because I am responding to the same type of post over and over. It's not my fault that there is an unending stream of illogical arguments and flawed logic around here...

Now is that a pointless endevour on my part? Problably... I mean I only have so many fingers to cram into the dyke, but hey, it's how I am

Your way of thinking and language implies you're not a youngster, so I really do not understand the purpose of your crusade. All members here are aware of your points - you have sucessfuly passed million characters mark with your recent posts - but you could really stop now.

Strange, usually my vocabulary and logical argument methodology paints me as a 30 something nerd who may be right but probably has too much time on his hands (which by the way would be spot on)... you are one of the few I have heard assume I am a youngster... I am going to go with language difference causing that perhaps?

Your posts, multiquotes anr epical war against infidels has reach limits of good taste, really.

Takes two to tango, I don't see you getting on peoples cases for incessantly being positive and responding with WOTs...

Of course, this is open forum, you can do what you want under AUP rules, so do what you want. But I really encourage you to open your own thread, something like "Official Devander Thread of Explanation of what is deeply wrong in GT5" and use it to spread your thoughts.

I opened a few threads... one got closed because despite being the equal but opposite to the epic emo thread (ironically, it was a thread specifically for people to be all happy and rosy and not have to deal with negative posts - but I think deep down inside, those who complain about complainers dont really want to be segregated to enjoy their happiness... they are happy only because they can complain about complainers thus don't want to be away from them), the members didn't like seeing it, the what would you find dissapointing thread is going on some many pages... but why open another thread to discuss things that someone already made a perfectly good thread for? Should I open a thread called "What does Devedander think about standards vs premiums"? Hardly seems useful.

It would be more coherent and you could be more focused on your points, while majority of the forum could peacefuly continue their deliberate blindness and life without actual knowledge of True Know.

I am sorry if I am not the kind of person you like to see actively participating in your forum even if it's just by virtue of manerism and not by point of view, and I suppose I could just relegate my self to a corner or something so you wouldn't have to be bothered by seeing what you dont't like to see... but well, that's just one possibility

And just for the clarification - I really share all your points and I agree with them 100%, bit even I am absolutely intimidated with yoir recent post-history. I hope you will not find this offensive, I have no other motives besides trying to be constructive critic on your behalf.

Regards!

I can see why you might be, and I would say to that this:

There are many kinds. Some who are timid and shy, some outspoken and boisterous and all in between. On a forum we all get to hear each others conversations. Unfortunately that means the timid and shy will be right in amongst the boisterous and outspoken, and I understand that can be unpleasant... but tahts how forums work.

If you find my conversational type intimidating, well, don't converse with me... it doesn't mean you are wrong or I won or anything, it just means you prefer to keep your conversations with others. You will notice my multipage WOTs are generally in pair with another person who also puts up multipage WOTs. I understand that might not be to your taste... so don't get in the middle and interject and you will have but to scroll past the occasionally annoying huge post.

But obvsiously whoever I am conversing with is of similar mind and style and that's how we prefer to post on the forums.

Again, nothing personal, but if it's not your cup of tea, I do apologize, but it's hardly fair to take offense at a style of prose that wasn't even directed at you in a medium where direction of speech is (by design) a little uncontrolled.

 

[Kusogaki]

@Devedander

I take my time to read your comments, but everytime you try to make a point, you bring standard cars and the fact that some forum posters makes hyperbole ridden comments about PD\GT5\KY, their status and their work that sure crawls under your skin.

But, outside of that, Zer0 pointed a bunch of things that you just ignored and proceeded to throw the Course Maker (uncalled for, KY already explained why it is that way for GT5) and Damage (kind understandable, it is in an unfinished state and more often than not presents major inconsistencies but your wording came through more of like unrealistic expectations) into the mess you're discussing, while not forgetting to grip a little more about the standard cars.

Yes, there were, there still is, a major denial about that, hell even Amar wasn't sure about that, but what do you want exactly? KY already stepped up and spoke about that, it' just too much work. Griping on GTP over and over again will not make PDI contract over 9000 modellers or outsource it to convert the standard cars to premiums. That's a FACT you just need to deal with it, like everyone else.

The damage seems like it can't affect the frame of the car, so that's another thing you will have to deal with, like everyone else. Does it look bad, all those zigzags after a collison from 320kph to a full stop? Yes it does, there's no way to deny that. Do you need to bring some random poster comment up everytime you need to scale PD work on that? No.

"PD-fans-GT-fans said this and that -> PD didn't deliver -> PD shills damage control", that's an awesome story you got there. Again, hyperbole ridden or overly enthusiastically comments made on GTP will not make a single line of code of the game nor it will model a car or a track. Why, oh why you keep bringing that up so much is beyond annoying, it doesn't add anything to the discussion and only hurts the impartial stance you try to build with your comments.

Separate the fans from PD\KY\GT5 and see the product for what it is.

 

[Devedander]

@Devedander

I take my time to read your comments, but everytime you try to make a point, you bring standard cars and the fact that some forum posters makes hyperbole ridden comments about PD\GT5\KY, their status and their work that sure crawls under your skin.

I didn't find the list of things he said to be representative of the people I was talking about... the things he brought up were all things I think were completely reasonable to expect from GT5 after all this time. They aren't the things that irrationally positive "PD are God" type members brought up.

I should have clarified better I suppose...

I don't know whether you are strongyl active in the forum or not, but there have been a lot of pretty heavy debates over the last year or two and we have had some real characters pop up with all kinds of things from knowing people lie because they move their arm to having an almost religious/psychic bond withKY and thus knowing what they know to be right.

Those people were rarely shot down... now they have dissapeared and those like me who always heald our ground and didn't just switch stances or dissapear if we turned out to be wrong have to take it from the other side bu twith the same arguments. Basically I went from being told I was a troll because I dared say anything might be less than perfect and KY was a perfectionist and it insulted him to even hint at such and that the PS3 is the most powerful console with it's cell processor blowing away the competition, to being told I am troll becuase I can't accept the limitations of KY and PD as they are only human and the PS3's hardware is dated.

I suppose it's a little unfair to treat the forum as an entitiy when it's probably more or less a whole set of different people now than it was then, but that makes it all th emore annoying when people say to just look at the big picture... I am looking at the big picture. Those who (obviuosly) don't recall those previous people and the previous debates going down are the ones not seeing the big picture.

Separate the fans from PD\KY\GT5 and see the product for what it is.

I do... but it seems the fans can't seperate what I say from my forum SN.

I have said I was pleasantly surprised by gokarts and they look like fun, I am VERY happy damage is coming to GT5 (especially mechanical) it doesn't take much research to see I was a huge proponent of it the whole way. I think the premium cars are about the sexiest things this side of actual steel and clear coat and I am itching to get my hands on the new physics model (last update I got to try myself was the TT).

Those posts are all over the place here... but no one remembers them... they just remember Devedander is the guy who hates everything GT5...

Truth is, I am one of GTs biggest enthusiasts... I bought a PS3 and G27 over an EXPECTED release date (not even a confirmed one) and I have been neck deep in GT 5 info since it was announced. I love a lot about GT and what it was and that makes me even mroe invested in what GT is failing to live up to in terms of potential and why.

I don't fail to see the positives, in fact I EXPECT most of those positives. The fact I may find some parts underwhelming or unpleasant doesn't mean I am not simultaneously happy with many other parts.

The irony is heavy here... people constantly blame me for not appreciating any of the positive and only seeing the negative, yet the people who do so have ignored all the postive I have put forward and they only see my negative....

The true enthusiast is the one who is the most critical of the work... because ultimately he will be the one examining it the most closely in the long run. Ask any Sonic fan...

 

[McLaren]

The damage in the Forza 3 video is set to "Cosmetic". If you set it to full simulation your car will be destroyed in 1 major hit. Engine will not work with smoke pouring out, car wont shift, car wont turn, the car usually wont even move at all. It will be totalled. Cosmetic allows you to have fun with collisions without destroying your car.

What do you expect? Zer0 already has a previous history of posting Forza videos attached with some false comment about them b/c he doesn't do any research.

So far both games have very similar damage but the damage modeling in GT5 looks better and has come a long way. The panels warp and get much more disfigured. I am assuming the GT5 videos are also set to cosmetic because that Nascar in the GT5 video took several massive 200mph hits and kept moving. In fact it hardly took any damage in the first hit. So it looks like GT5 is much more generous with the damge. (unless its set to cosmetic) You try that in Forza 3 and your car will be totalled in 1 hit. Again, that Forza 3 video is set to cosmetic damage not full simulation damage. This also makes me nervous about the GT5 AI. He was parked an entire lap ahead and still the AI came around and rammed him in the GT5 video.

Overall it is great to finally see some serious damage in GT5. Huge improvement over all the other GT5 damage videos. 👍

Agreed.

 

[Dravonic]

So, to conclude this discussion plagued with constructive criticsm.

If above is not the procedural real-time damage, than nothing is. If above is not from demo probably far from final code, than nothing is. If above is the showcase of things to come, than we're very happy people.

This looks more than good, it looks incredible. Arguing about acomplishing something on this scale with all other elements of the actual code on almost 5 year old hardware, is nothing but deliberate crapping in order to make yourself smart.

However, internet ego is an intresting thing so I presume the constructive criticsm will continue to copy/past same "arguments" all over again, again, again, again and again. And again after that.

How it progresses is nothing short of impressive. I can't recall a game that shows this same smooth progression. However, there's much more to damage than a smooth progression. It bothers me how limited the damage is. While we already have games where cars are mechanically and visually totaled, GT5's damage shown up until now is too limited. Only the bumpers seem to get damaged, the rest of the car is left untouched. It looks weird. Bad? No, not really bad, just underwhelming and somewhat mundane. I don't know about you, but I was and still am expecting more from PD. "Good enough to be acceptable" is not good enough for PD, not good enough for a GT game, not when they openly boasted about how they were going to "do it right".

If the above is not constructive criticism, I don't know what is. Not sure what's wrong with it or why it bothers you.

 

[Killinator]

The video with the SLS grinding the Ferrari to the wall was great until a part of the SLS's bonnet started to peel open for no particular reason, unless a machine gun was going to come out and open fire!

That said the progreesive damage to that Ferrari was nothing short of spectacular looking as it occured, would have been perfected had the bumper been dragged under the car causing all sorts of mechanical damage(I question whether there should have been tyre damage with the 2 cars grinding against each other).

I'm only worried that currently the damage seems inconsistent(I'm only partially willing to believe its due to it being a demo).

 

[Vincent Viceroy]

Any particular reason why the damage system is more extensive than what we seen on production models but is exclusive to racing cars? I mean I can't see the manufacturer not giving the 'OK' for production cars to lose body panels when Forza 3 does.

Seeing as the technology is there then why not extend it to Premium production cars?

I think this quote is from about a year ago and while I don't understand why it was said then I can't help but think it's somehow incorrect... there was much speculation at one point that the two levels of cars would be racing and production (before it was commonly accepted that it would be how it is officially now) and I wonder if somehow that understanding got carried over into this explanation.

Oh right...so this is old and not necessarily accurate anymore.

Phew!

So we could still see Premium production models losing bumpers and such to the tarmac then, right?