The Damage Thread - Best Buy Demo, Now Thats More Like It!
- Thread starter Robin
- 3,122 comments
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- 48
- LilSciz
No, that is dirt flying up with the brake lights on during the night so there is a red glow/essence on it. Remember the lights affect the dirt and snow and what not.
http://www.thirteen1.com/wp-content/gallery/gran-turismo-5/day_night_transition_005a.jpg
Notice how it glows red.
- 1,846
- Arizona
- maxpontiac
Zer0
(Banned)
- 1,624
Forza 2
Of course there are limitations. If we just featured race cars or a really small number of manufacturers, we would be able to completely simulate damage down the last detail. However, most of the manufacturers are made very uncomfortable by damage that would injure the driver. Therefore, we can't roll the car over, start the car on fire or ball the car up completely.
http://international.xboxway.com/in..._2_dan_greenawalt_XCN_interview_xbox_360.aspx
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Forza 3
http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/post/65086.aspx
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NFS Shift
We do as much as the manufacturers allow us to do, which is anything up to the point of encroaching the driver's safety zone, which means we can't tear the doors off.
http://www.gamerzines.com/ps3/news/gt5-damage-not-as-realistic.html
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Juiced
Total destruction is off the cards where licensed cars are concerned, but we think you'll be very surprised at what manufacturers are allowing us to do. They are certainly a lot more open minded and forgiving.
IGN: And what is a typical conversation like with the manufacturers with regard to damage to their cars? Which manufacturer is the most lenient? Which is the most conservative?
Don: They are generally all of similar mind-set… penalize the player for causing damage, don't compromise the passenger compartment, don't kill pedestrians and don't set the vehicles on fire or explode them.
http://uk.ps2.ign.com/articles/507/507293p2.html
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GT4
Then we come to car damage. We also planned to implement this feature in GT4 but we found that, technically, we could not do it to a level that satisfied our respect for the Gran Turismo brand.
Unfortunately, due to the technical limitations of the PS2 and the high standards we hold for the GT brand the time was not right to allow everyone to enjoy that with GT4.
However Yamauchi-san also tantalisingly confirms that a proper damage model will be implemented for GT5 although he doesn't present any further details,
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=116051
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KY at 2004
"As a future view "I think that damage expression etc. is very important in a meaning called a reality. The greater efforts in the meaning of completing it are required. In "GT5", I think that it is a theme. When it crashes, I want to do changing based on physical calculation perfectly absolutely."
http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/20041109/gt4.htm
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And there was an old Criterion interview talking about how Burnout games will never get the same level of damage with real-life cars as with fictional brands. I can't find the link.
Enought facts??
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Does anyone on these forums work at Best Buy?
It would be nice if someone hooked a Logitech G27 up to one of the Best Buy systems after hours and gave their impressions. I have heard so many good things about the force feedback on the Gamescom rigs using the Driving Force GT... it would be nice to confirm that the G27 is as good if not better with regard to force feedback and steering response.
It would be nice if someone hooked a Logitech G27 up to one of the Best Buy systems after hours and gave their impressions. I have heard so many good things about the force feedback on the Gamescom rigs using the Driving Force GT... it would be nice to confirm that the G27 is as good if not better with regard to force feedback and steering response.
Enzo309
(Banned)
- 484
You're right. If I worked at PD and I heard everyone complaining like this I'd quit my job, because there's just no pleasing some people.
Luckily not everyone is so worked up about the damage system as you might think. After all, this is a forum for the hardcore fans
You can't say the damage bit isn't important
if you just didn't care then you should have never said anything about anything in this thread because if you think you cared then you are doing it in an immature and hatred manner.
No matter how good you are on neglecting the reality of motorsports espesifically in the name of FIA F1 / GT1 and WRC division
crashes and damages are one of the most "enormous" factor of motorsports and will always be
I like a motorsports game to be a bit less virtual and a lot more realistic
airjoker88
(Banned)
- 184
It's more that people are complaing that cars arn't being deformed enough or at high speeds the car should be destroyed to the exact parameters(car stops running?).
Now sure it would be awesome/cool to see cars wrecked/totaled, but it ends there because that has nothing to do with the RACING ASPECT at ALL(you can't race anymore). But mechanical damage from bumps and occasional hitting of other Cars is part of racing and so far seems well implemented.
If anything the realest part of damage at super high speeds in this game would be if after you crashed TEXT pops up and SAYS "You can't drive anymore" other than that it's purely asthetic.
Enzo309
(Banned)
- 484
so purely"asthetics"?? So you are trying to say ayrton senna who have lose a victory and his life from crashing so that's not an aspect of racing?? Not trying to make a big deal out of ayrton senna.
I'm sorry because you are saying it isn't an aspect.
Most F1 world champion tries have been lose by damage mostly before they even get to the end point of a season from a grand prix
I mean every formula 1 driver have experienced crashing or damaging
either it's fixed at the pits or it's just gone you still cannot say it isn't a real aspect of racing.
And again I'm saying this not only because I'm an FIA follower but then it will always be an "enormous" factor.
It doesn't matter to me but it's enormous and it will never be not important for enough to just get neglected
- 630
- New York City
- albtifosi
You need to understand we are talking about an E rated game which is supposed to be enjoyed by people of all ages. I agree damage is important in a race but when i play video games i feel the need to relax and escape the real world. So if I crash and it does not end my race so be it. The reason I am a big fan of GT is the huge selection of cars we always got. Cars that I have never seen in my life and will probably never get the chance to see. I actually prefer doing practice laps alone around the ring to actual racing. It is relaxing. No offence to you. I am not trying to say you opinion is wrong but there is other details to this game that are important other than the damage of the cars. BTW GT5 is limited to the ps3's hardware. So the physics, the graphics and pretty much everything are only going to be as good as the hardware that runs it. You sound like the type of guy that enjoys hardcore sims May I suggest http://www.iracing.com/. I have tried it and nothing beats it as far as driving detail goes. The damage is so that if you put a wheel in the grass and lose the car you could easily end up hitting a wall. If you hit the wall just the right way or at very high speeds, your race is finished.
- 4,323
First off, I didn't clarify, but I was specifically talking about the GT series.
Secondly I realize that the passenger commpartment is usually the holy grail of licnesed damage and tha'ts why I said:
Basically what I am saying is that licensing has allowed damage to an extent that we see here, the fact that it's not more reallistic or indepth in the areas that it is allowed to happen in is not a licensing issue.
That and that in the GT series, its common to have reasonable ideas touted as fact. Lincense limitations in GT have always been a reasonable theory, but so far as I know have never been shown to be factual.
Enzo309
(Banned)
- 484
I know it's obviously all not going to be in gt5
but I'm just trying to say it's a factor of motorsports
it's not just a nothing
- 630
- New York City
- albtifosi
I know it's obviously all not going to be in gt5
but I'm just trying to say it's a factor of motorsports
it's not just a nothing
And in that you are right but gt is not the type of game to take it that far because it is made for me and my brother. I have some track experience in real life while he is 12 and has never driven a real car. It would not be fair for him it it had every aspect of a real race. I like to think of GT as a semi-sim (sorry to you guys who think otherwise). It is an example of what motorsport and limit driving are but dumbed down so they can be accessible to all skill levels.
Can't wait for this game
- 643
- Spazza
- 630
- New York City
- albtifosi
I agree with you, i've said before that i wouldn't mind if damage was not in GT5, i don't like to crash cars. I prefer to stay on the track, drive fast, drive clean
What he said ^^^
Zer0
(Banned)
- 1,624
Another assumption by your part ignoring the fact that all game developers have to deal with the same damage restrictions on licensed cars and no game has exceeded what gt5 has done.
You have your factual represented in all the games that have been developed until now that include licensed cars with damage but you continue ignoring what they say on the matter.
airjoker88
(Banned)
- 184
I'm Talking from a GAMING STAND POINT of racing. It's illogical to build a system that has real time deformation for completely totaled cars, unless there is the TIME and RESOURCES(despite of manufactures). Which it obviously seem PD are attempting(waiting for final game). So why waste resources for something that shows you that you car is totaled, especially when theres other important factors in VIDEO GAME racing that needs to be implemented.(Graphics/physics/lighting/animations/textures/real time shadows/sheer size of game).
Like I said it would be awesome to see crazy crashes and deformities for the high speed crashes, but other than visually pleasing you, you are gunna have to restart the game. That's why I state it's definitely not that important to implement and has no importance(game wise) but showing you that you won't be able continue to drive your car.
I'm just tired of all the complaining, because people seem to want everything on a silver platter(played out but f it). And Never understand the timing and hard work that goes into creating ANYTHING happening realtime. I have sat down for hours rendering an IMAGE...1 image. Now imagine everything you see going on in gran turismo. It's astonishing. It's not easy, and they are definately doing it to the best of their capabilities, and their DAMAGE system actually looks GREAT(better than anything related to the type of game GT is). Especially for what we need it for, showing when and where hit's have taken place with competitors, and the effect it has on your car.
I wouldn't mind seeing crazy awesome high speed exact precise crashes , but it's definitely not the most importance of why one plays GT.
- 4,323
So you think that the way the metal wrinkles and bends is due to lincensing issues? I find that pretty far fetched...
I can believe that the rules said no passenger compartment damage, or no frame damage but if they allow the hood and fenders to be bend a out of shape and ripped up, I really can't believe the licensing says that it can't happen in a realistic way and must be in the weird zigzag things we saw in teh photos...
No you continue to ignore what I say in favor of what you think I mean.
First off I was talking about the GT series specifically and secondly I am talking quality of damage, not level of damage.
You seem to think I am saying how MUCH damage the cars can sustain is not goverened by license, I am not saying that. I am saying how that damage is presented is not goverened by license in that I am sure no rule says "carbon fiber must bend and ripple like aluminum".
Or do you really think the licenses say sommething like that?
Sounds to me like you are changing your argument to worm your way out of the situation. However...
Forgetting technical limitations of hardware and developers, the EXTENT of damage that production cars can receive is completely governed by licensing. I know this to be fact because my late father used to work for a number of large car manufacturers whose cars were represented in games like PGR, Forza, GT etc.
HOW that damage is represented can also be, if required, limited by license, but this is typically far more relaxed, if defined at all.
At the end of the day, car manufacturers own the IP to their designs and brand, so they can dictate whatever they want in the game in terms of how their car is represented. When you have all these manufacturers, getting them all to agree on one lowest common denominator is extremely difficult. Ferrari might insist that different materials behave differently upon impact, whereas Ford might not care as long as the damage is within defined limits and looks moderately realistic.
- 10,735
- Plymouth, UK
- motorforum
There's so many permutations for how a certain part could bend from such tiny adjustments between the angle they're hit, that it must be almost impossible for developers to truly nail realistic deformation.
I think it was in here I mentioned it, but I've only seen one car in FM3 that had safety cell deformation, and that was the BMW M6 from the DLC. Wether BMW allowed it as an experiment or T10 sneaked it in, I don't know, but I've not noticed it on any other cars I've crashed.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/motorforumsforzapics/4462885099/sizes/o/in/photostream/
I think it was in here I mentioned it, but I've only seen one car in FM3 that had safety cell deformation, and that was the BMW M6 from the DLC. Wether BMW allowed it as an experiment or T10 sneaked it in, I don't know, but I've not noticed it on any other cars I've crashed.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/motorforumsforzapics/4462885099/sizes/o/in/photostream/
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- 6,804
- The Netherlands
I do think that even when ( hypothetically ) most manufacturers would simply say, do what you want and make it as realistic as possible to PD, it will only take one manufacturer to object and demand it to be scaled down to completely change the amount of damage shown overall for it to remain consistent.
It would appear really odd if all but one brand could be completely shredded and torn to pieces whilst one brand would only receive a few dents and scratches which would affect the gameplay.
On the other hand, the example you mentioned about Ferrari possibly demanding the materials behaving differently on impact would therefore also apply, to remain consistent, to all other brands even when they would not demand it ( or even need persuasion to allow it ), tricky and complicated business indeed.
Although I do think each car manufacturer today has its own policy regarding representation in videogames ( and what it will allow or demand ) already written down and decided for game developers to implement, which may result in different damage results ( albeit it minor ) depending on brand.
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