The Damage Thread - Best Buy Demo, Now Thats More Like It!

[Slurm]

If a game has damage it has damage everywhere, if a game has next gen car models then they are all next gen.

What is stupid is this really might turn into GT4 HD. I dont mind having 800 cars from GT4 provided they are rebuilt from the ground up models. If there are going to be races with some cars looking great and some just looking like PS2 in HD then thats appauling.

As for the damage have you ever seen a game which has damage on select cars! every current gen racing game has damage in one form or another and none of them have a problem in implementing it. Now if GT's damage was insanely detailed then I could understand it being on a few select cars but just having doors and bumpers fall off there is no reason why every car doesnt have damage apart from them just being lazy.

So as it stands it took PD 5 years to port GT4 and add 100 cars, thats what im seeing right now. Im a big GT fan like most here and for the first time in the series I feel slightly let down because PD aimed too high and so far have not delivered anywhere near what was expected considering the release is meant to be before the end of this year.

Robin.

Have to say, this sums up my feelings quite well. Damage is basically the one major feature that has been implemented and it doesn't even look that impressive..

ed. I have to ammend this, as the physics are brilliant .

 

[cicohipe]

Not even that some manufacturers don't allow particular extents of depicted damage?

like who? their is a long list of games that have damage from almost every manufacturer that i can think of

 

[the Interceptor]

Have to say, this sums up my feelings quite well. Damage is basically the one major feature that has been implemented and it doesn't even look that impressive..

again...

Well, this I will repeat over and over until everybody has absorbed it: there is no feature list of GT5 yet, and there is no indication that the demo on Gamescom represents the full game. Thus, basing conclusions of how good or bad the final game will be on what we know to date is moot.

 

[Exorcet]

My only damage related concern is how much it effects performance, damage can look like whatever it wants, that's not important. I didn't see any evidence performance damage. If GT5 damage is purely visual (though I doubt it) I'd trade it for GT2's damage model without hesitation.

And this is no GT4 port, the physics are at least GT5P standard and it has online. That's enough to justify a new game.

 

[cicohipe]

If you assume a constant rate of sales, that's about 696k 360s per month worldwide and 702k PS3s per month.

Though there isn't a constant rate of sales and as you can see, while the PS3 is at about 24m currently the 360 was only at 20m at the same point in its life - the PS3 is 20% up...

That graph is quite interesting. All the game consoles follow a similar pattern of slowly going up and then taking a brief spike before slowly going up again. No doubt in line with a price drop and strong marketing campaign.

Whats interesting is that looking at that graph ps3 is about due another jump.

Edit: Actually due is the wrong word, ps3 is in need of another jump, their sales seem to be slowly tapering off.

 

[alba]

people get little infos we get and blow it out of proportion, just wait for TGS which is where the blowout will happen for GT5 (sucks that gamescom was the perfect place to do it but well... too late now).

If after TGS you're not happy you can flame all you want but until then and a "PROPER" presentation from Yamauchi, I wouldn't hold my breath ;o

 

[ninjaghost]

Do we really need 1000 cars though? I mean, I would rather have 500 cars with full damage, next gen modeling, and interiors. Who needs to drive a 1986 Ford Taurus anyways?

yea im hear u on that. like do we really need a cockpit view in a ford model T?

 

[JamboGT]

I am happy there is some damage, to be honest i mostly use race cars, probably the opposit to most so I can live with damage like this easily.

 

[Kryz11]

Anyone knows if PD team will have a little press conference later today ? Or just interviews?

 

[Robin]

Who says that has to be the case? Surely having the option to use some cars in "Damage Mode" is better than having no damage at all? While it may be preferable to have as many cars 'full GT5 spec' as possible, I'll take some over none any day. I'd also be willing to bet that more and more cars will be brought up to 'full GT5 spec' as time goes on, meaning that the game can be released earlier.

I really do dissagree and the main reason is because KY was the one banging on about how he wanted his damage to be like no other! He said he had waited till this generation of console power to be able to do damage totally realistically without any consessions.

Then he goes and delivers bumpers falling off and only on a select number of cars. He shouldnt have promised so much. As for updating the game over time if your going to have to pay to build the game up to a full level isnt that slightly silly as DLC should enhance not be work that should have been done by launch.

Come on! Do you really think that is what they meant? I would be amazed if that was the case. By 'GT4 spec', I take it they mean "exteriors only and/or no damage". But I fully expect that their 'GT4-like' cars will look exactly like GT5 cars from the outside. Anything else would be ridiculous. So far, there is no evidence whatsoever that GT5 will have GT4-standard graphics anywhere.

Yes I do! There were cars that were in GT5P from GT4 which have been fully remodelled, but when they say 800 other cars being brought from GT4 I do seriously believe that these will be cars with no extra work done other than HD'ing them up. Even 5 years is not long enough to build that number of cars from scratch even if its the exterior only.

I think you are being very harsh here - even though it has taken a long time to get to this stage, you seem to be neglecting a shed load of things that PD have done. A completely new game engine and new physics; Rebuilding every car* (see above!) and track in HD; Damage; Online racing; Up to 16 cars on track at a time; GTTV; possible Home integration - and all on a new console from previous iterations of the franchise. Not to mention the possibility of many other novel features (such as those alluded to in Amar's thread).

Well after waiting for 5 years and KY being cocky saying "we can release the game whenever we want", it looks like it could do with another year in development! I remember that slide he produced a while back showing all the features that would be in GT5.... I dont think even half have been fulfilled and even though you can argue this is not the finished game I do not believe that so much more can be achieved before the release by the end of the year.

I don't know how anyone can say that PD have failed to meet expectations yet anyway,

We already know the game wont meet some expectations by KY saying today that damage will be limited to some cars, theres no 'yet' about it.

considering that the recent news is likely just the tip of the iceberg...

Well there lies PD's biggest problem, no one ever knows where they clearly stand with PD, I dont want to always be at the tip of the iceberg... I want to see the whole damn block!

Take any other company with only a few months to release, by now for the most part everything would be known about the game including the release date, with PD you might not know stuff until you open the game box!

Some may like that but just look at GT4, literally days before the release they canned 1080i mode (outside JPN) and scrapped online... how do you think people felt about that!?

Anyway, this is my opinion (and some other peoples) on the game AT THIS STAGE. And seeing as this is a release-able product according to KY then it has fallen short of his own vision.

Robin.

 

[Azerach]

That graph is quite interesting. All the game consoles follow a similar pattern of slowly going up and then taking a brief spike before slowly going up again. No doubt in line with a price drop and strong marketing campaign.

Whats interesting is that looking at that graph ps3 is about due another jump.

Edit: Actually due is the wrong word, ps3 is in need of another jump, their sales seem to be slowly tapering off.

the "jump" is actually holiday sales. And looking at the lineup Sony has and the new price cut... i'm sure ps3 will be doing really well this season, maybe beat by the wii but still expecting a strong holiday from them.

 

[the Interceptor]

Robin, note that you're basing all of the above on the few videos of a demo which you've happened to have seen. You can start being disappointed when we can be certain the final game will be like that.

 

[killanite]

I'm thinking some of us should step back (Robin) and wait till the game is released and till you actually play it before you start burning it in a campfire of "they didn't meet my expectations" crap.

 

[newnikita]

I don't know if GT5'll have different levels of damage, but if what we see in that Subaru's videos is the "realistic" one, needs much much more improvement:

-. First of all, the car still bounces against the corners and other autos, something sadly typical in all GTs. They aren't capable of simulate the energy impact or the sensation of rubbing and slowdown against barriers.

-. Moving parts. For example when the bonnet rises, you'd expect be pulled off by the wind effect, but no, remains in the car And this are simple things than even Gran Theft Auto 4 has...

And I'm only speaking about the things showed on the videos, not what I consider "damage". Because if I (or everyone of you) talked about mechanical damage and deformation expected in the title, the list would be huge, wouldn't be? ^_^

In short, I'm glad, at least we'll finally see damage on GT, but there is a lot of work for the future.

 

[3Axis]

Take any other company with only a few months to release, by now for the most part everything would be known about the game including the release date, with PD you might not know stuff until you open the game box!

I love that.

 

[sumbrownkid]

What's with all the crying and moaning going on here? Sure the damage models aren't really cracked out to the uber-high expectations of some of you, but at least that we are getting some form of damage. And remember that this is a demo only, not a final product, and they still got time to implement some more damage models and polish it.

And this is GT's first real foray into visual damage, so cut them some slack. It's like yelling at a kid for not understanding Calculus when they have no real founding in Math.

 

[Sureboss]

So many opinions on what, 2 minutes of gameplay? And we're all guessing on what that gameplay is, what those settings are, etc.

Also, stop berating PD. Sony are the publisher, own the rights and they'll be in full control of what PD can release. I've already said elsewhere why there isn't full damage.

Take any other company with only a few months to release, by now for the most part everything would be known about the game including the release date, with PD you might not know stuff until you open the game box!

What? Like the information they released yesterday? Announcing a release date is not always simple. Extensive testing may find holes in the code which means it gets put back. You don't make promises you can't stick too. There is also timing. We'll get a release date soon, having interpreted what Jordan and his reliable sources have said.

 

[Angerdx]

Spoiled brats, First they never ever promised full on damage for all cars period, second as far as i can remember PD rebuilt all their assets for GT5, and no they won´t show full game with all features atleast until TGS, if you give people all the info there is how do you surprise them then.

 

[3Axis]

Feature-lists tend to not be final, I think; things change; things get dropped; things get added. It's unfortunate developers can't stay consistent, but that's the way of the business.

 

[Famine]

Yes I do! There were cars that were in GT5P from GT4 which have been fully remodelled, but when they say 800 other cars being brought from GT4 I do seriously believe that these will be cars with no extra work done other than HD'ing them up.

There's a slight problem with this concept though.

For a start the Korean verstion of GT4 - which had the most cars of any - had 725 cars in it. So we're already looking at a bit of a shortfall to the 830 car note. Take into account that there are 24 cars from GT4 included in GT5Prologue with full interiors and we're looking at just 701 cars that can possibly transfer from GT4.


Which should leave us with one conclusion... 830 cars transferred from GT4 just isn't true - be it a lapse in translation or an error in the original information.

 

[Robin]

So some people have the same opinion as I do... yet I'm the one lapooned for it, cheers.

 

[dancardesigner]

There is something not right in this build, it looks very unfinished and like has been said even GTA4 has better damage. I am glad that it looks like they have modelled tyre deformation though, and the physics i hope are improved a lot. Lighting is better, but shadows look extremely grainy when tings get complex, especially after the car has been damaged.
I want tyre marks and better smoke, i want a sense the car is really driving on a road. The road texture is poor and also too clean, it is almost like Kaz doesn't want to add dirt, tyre marks or scuffs to his work because it will spoil it's nice shiny unrealistic graphics.

 

[Sureboss]

Maybe they count them as separate cars for auto and manual Or colours...

it looks very unfinished

From 2 minutes of gameplay? I highly doubt it's the final build either. Considering we're at least 2-3 months away from release. The chance of it being final build are non-existent.

 

[3Axis]

It befuddles me that when every time we get news, crumbs or cakes-worth, people start to complain, as opposed to being grateful they know something at all.

 

[Conquerer]

-. Moving parts. For example when the bonnet rises, you'd expect be pulled off by the wind effect, but no, remains in the car And this are simple things than even Gran Theft Auto 4 has...

Do you realize what kind of force it would take to rip the hood off? GTA is extremely unrealistic in this regard and shame on you for saying it is realistic. GT5 is the correct one here. Hood hinges/shocks are not weak so unless you're travelling at a very high rate of speed with a lot of drag, the hood will not budge. There's a big difference between real life and things that happen in videogames like GTA.

They may even bend and allow the hood to stretch all the way to the windscreen, but it's not as easy for them to break and allow the hood to go free as you may think.

 

[dancardesigner]

It befuddles me that when every time we get news, crumbs or cakes-worth, people start to complain, as opposed to being grateful they know something at all.

Probably because it is not really good news, it has been more a dissapointment than anything, a lot of the expectations still seem very much work in progress.

Then again something tells me this is an old crap build, I mean i find it odd we are suddenly allowed to have a go of GT5 without any prior comment from Kaz. Something tells me, we have a lot yet to see,.

 

[MrBurnout]

Wow, just wow.

After reading all the new posts I suddenly understand why PD doesn't release ANY information whatsoever about their games.

The game will have superb physics, 1000 cars (how many games have even half of that, besides previous GT's? That would be, umm, NONE), 60+ tracks (again, how many games have this many?), online, 16 cars on track at the same time (ohh, about twice the amount of what Forza* has).

Yet people still manage to find fault with having damage only on race cars (did someone mention that to be about 170 cars? That's about 2 Need for Speed titles COMBINED!).

How can you seriously expect PD to ever release any information about their game if everything they even hint at is seen as a promise and then somehow makes them liars when not completely fulfilled?

Why can't we all cheer up a bit? GT5 IS going to be the best racing game ever released**, there is close to no doubt about that, and we are, after all, getting damage (yes, it seems to be only on racecars, but how can that be worse than not having any damage at all?).

* - Just to be clear - I do not hate Forza, it is most definitely the 2nd best racing series ever made, and Forza 3 will quite probably be the best racing game in the market until GT5 is released.

** - I'm not talking about physics. I'm not talking about damage. I'm not talking about presentation. I'm not even referring to graphics or the number of cars. For me, the "best racing game" is a combination of all these factors, which means that there really isn't much competition, as the only two games that offer a lot of everything are Forza and GT, and I just think that GT is going to be a step above Forza this time.

 

[3Axis]

I agree.

 

[dancardesigner]

Wow, just wow.

After reading all the new posts I suddenly understand why PD doesn't release ANY information whatsoever about their games.

The game will have superb physics, 1000 cars (how many games have even half of that, besides previous GT's? That would be, umm, NONE), 60+ tracks (again, how many games have this many?), online, 16 cars on track at the same time (ohh, about twice the amount of what Forza* has).

Yet people still manage to find fault with having damage only on race cars (did someone mention that to be about 170 cars? That's about 2 Need for Speed titles COMBINED!).

How can you seriously expect PD to ever release any information about their game if everything they even hint at is seen as a promise and then somehow makes them liars when not completely fulfilled?

Why can't we all cheer up a bit? GT5 IS going to be the best racing game ever released**, there is close to no doubt about that, and we are, after all, getting damage (yes, it seems to be only on racecars, but how can that be worse than not having any damage at all?).

* - Just to be clear - I do not hate Forza, it is most definitely the 2nd best racing series ever made, and Forza 3 will quite probably be the best racing game in the market until GT5 is released.

** - I'm not talking about physics. I'm not talking about damage. I'm not talking about presentation. I'm not even referring to graphics or the number of cars. For me, the "best racing game" is a combination of all these factors, which means that there really isn't much competition, as the only two games that offer a lot of everything are Forza and GT, and I just think that GT is going to be a step above Forza this time.

I'm sorry but all people seem to give a crap about is car count. That is always used as the main topic for debate between the competition, wanna know why/ Because it's pretty much all GT5 so far looking at it has over the competition.

 

[ccxftw]

First of all, you can't magically make a car HD. You can output at a higher resolution, but you'd just have a sharper version of the same thing. As absurd of an idea as it is, there CANNOT be 830 cars ported from GT4, as there were only 720 cars total in the game.

5 years is enough time to model 830 cars with poly counts around 200k. That is roughly one car every three and a half days, and we can be damn sure they have more than one person working on the models. Also, as Polyphony Digital claims to use laser scanning, it should be very possible to create 830 models in 5 years or even less.

If you look at rFactor and the recent progress on the WSGT 2 mod, extremely detailed cars are being modeled, rendered, and put in game almost bi-weekly. That is a few peoples hobby, not their full time job. You can check that mods progress here if anyone has doubts.

Every car in Gran Turismo 5 will have full interiors and be completely new models. If I'm wrong, I'll eat my shoe.