The Draft and Bump Drafting?

Since you have no way of knowing whether the guy infront will co-operate or welcome a bump from the rear (which is inherently more risky for the guy on the receiving end than the guy doing the bumping), then it surely cannot be right to condone the activity in general. I'd say it was only 'acceptable' if you knew for certain that the guy infront was receptive towards the idea, and even then, it is questionable whether it should be regarded as legitimate/clean behaviour...

I reckon with the advent of private rooms, such an activity will be at the discretion of the host, like "House Rules" etc.. But I can't see this being allowed by any self-respecting community who would otherwise outlaw contact, especially unwarranted contact from the rear.

Phnarr...

Wow, just, taken out of context, that's a most wonderful quote..

I'm of the mind that you're quite likely to get a friendly ramming if and when you pass the guy you've been bump drafting, as I think people are probably fairly short tempered with regards to deliberate collisions online...
 
Bump drafting is a very good way to be super fast in Daytona and other tracks with long straights. As long as there is no Slam drafting (Hitting someone going 20+ mph slower than you) you should be OK and help both of you. Also for the draft is quite trycky to just read about it and use it well, just experiment, try to follow a car and listen to the wind, the less you hear it most of the time the better it is.
 
Don't know if it's been mentioned in here before, but I think were forgeting about side drafting. It's when your beside of another car, then close right up to their door, and shoot away from them. It seems to work best on the outside. Check out 1:00-1:03 and
4:43-4:57.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3-Swax6hRY
 
that's a most wonderful quote..
:D Why thank you, kind sir...

I think the moral of the story is, atleast have the decency to ask a fella before you attempt to ram him up the rear, or err on the side of caution and just make a pass...
 
Can I get abit more in depth on the bump draft? Isent it just drafting while touching? or do you litterly bump eachother numerouse times while drafting?

when u are behind someone u are always in their draft. when u gain enough speed off their wake, then u can bump them a few times.
 
I think it is important to point out at this juncture that most forums observe a policy of no contact between drivers, and as such bumping could easily be considered against the notion of fair play... Personally (double entendres aside for a minute) I want to be able to take part in a race where my car is 100% controlled and influenced by my own actions, and not have to rely upon or otherwise receive aid from another driver. In this regard, I think the bump draft is fundamentally contrary to fair play - since only those who are 'in on it' can possibly benefit... and nobody likes being in a rigged game.
 
I want to be able to take part in a race where my car is 100% controlled and influenced by my own actions, and not have to rely upon or otherwise receive aid from another driver. In this regard, I think the bump draft is fundamentally contrary to fair play - since only those who are 'in on it' can possibly benefit...

I take it you're not a NASCAR fan. :lol:
 
:lol: No...

I'm not saying that it is not done in real life, and although I'm no expert on Online Racing rules and regulations, I imagine that advocating a general policy that specifically allows deliberate contact with the explicit intention of giving the participants a tangible advantage over those who don't "take it up the rear" or who don't even know what bump drafting is, would be very difficult to justify indeed. Although there could easily be specific races or groups who do allow it, it would surely have to be explicitly mentioned and made clear to all participants that the activity was allowed (as is no doubt the case in NASCAR). However, in online races without private lobbies, it would be inherently unfair to those who didn't know and/or use the technique...
 
People that don't know what bumpdrafting is, or don't know how to take advantage of it, deserve to lose a race at a track like Daytona (oval).

For those that still don't understand the benefit, think of it like this...

Car A and car B are identical (engine, drivetrain, aerodynamics). Both cars are capable of a top speed of 200 mph around Daytona (as limited by air resistance, not gear ratios). If car A is running 200 mph and car B is tucked in behind him, car B can reach a higher speed due to the decrease in air resistance (drag) against the front bumper of the car (like car number 86 from the picture in post 1). Let's say that car B can go 210 mph when following directly behind car A. At this point, car B has two options.

Option 1: Use the draft to build up speed, pull out of line, and slingshot around car A. By passing car A, car B's speed will slowly come back down to 200 mph as the air resistance will overcome the engine's power. Passing car A also allows car A to get in B's draft and eventually slingshot back around (think Mission 23 on GT4).

Option 2: Pull right up to and tap the back bumper of car A, increasing the speed of car A while allowing car B to continue to stay in the vaccuum of decreased air resistance created behind car A. With their bumpers touching, car A and B can use the combined power created by both vehicles to overcome the air resistance on the front bumper of car A. Car A receives the benefit of increased speed, while car B receives the same benefit, plus the ability to pull out of line at any time and slingshot around car A.

Whether you are drafting or bumpdrafting, car A is basically being used by car B to increase the speed of car B. At least with bumpdrafting, car A also gets a speed boost. Both cars working together can put a lot of distance between themselves and the rest of the field.
 
But GT5p isn't NASCAR.
And unless we are all using the same car (which may happen when private rooms come along ) Car A is going to brake loose and go for a nice detour through the infield.
 
Nah the differance in cars can be a good thing. I was bumpdraftting with a GT LM he could enter the corners way faster than me and make it stick but I always had a better run off. after a few laps of the sesaw action I just startted bumpping him down the straites, he could handle the entry and id get my good run on exit for a perfect bump again. Now on the other hand if you see a guy regardless of his car thats hagging on for dear life at 190, prob not a good idea to make him go anyfaster just pull out and kiss him good buy.
 
But GT5p isn't NASCAR.
And unless we are all using the same car (which may happen when private rooms come along ) Car A is going to brake loose and go for a nice detour through the infield.

Bumpdrafting a guy on a straightaway will not cause the lead car to spin as long as the difference between speeds isn't drastic. Ramming a car on a straightaway will cause problems, as will bumping a car in a corner. A light tap in a straight line shouldn't spin out any car.


I'm not a big NASCAR fan, but I watched a few laps of yesterday's race at Talladega Superspeedway (which seemed pretty exciting by the usual NASCAR standards) and saw a lot of bumpdrafting going on. The FedEx car continually pushed guys to the lead, seemingly at will. I didn't see any black flags/penalties being assessed.
 
Look bump drafting is fun and a easy way to get up front. I just wanted to let people know what it is. I believe that if you educate people about it the racing online can get better.

Since we cannot talk to one another in a race online there is no way to find out whether a person likes to bumped to go faster. Besides that point, when you are racing in a Expert 700PP race you should know by then how to handle your car going 210 MPH into a corner. When you are using a super car you need to know how to get your car to turn correctly in the corner. You should know what bump drafting is, and how it works. If you don't know you have no business being in a expert race. With that said we now can see how the races online get so bad. There are just too many inexperienced people racing where they should not be racing.

When we do create rules for dump drafting for our forums, I would like to help create those rules. Because I do agree with a lot of you guys on how and when it is necesary.

I really enjoy the discussion that is going on in the thread. It was my point to make a good thread about this and I am happy I got such a good response. :)

BTW, I am a huge Nascar fan! I have Nascar 06, 07, 08 and soon to come this June 09 :)

Another thing, whenever I am at Daytona or any track it is ok to bump draft me, I love it. Another thing, you can trust me to help you out, and I will work with you, because my goal is the same as yours. To get to the front. So look for me!
 
werd I'll keep an eye or bumper out there for yah :P you see a black vette with the tag Zodicus comming up behind yah be ready for a bump 👍
 
I wouldn't suggest pushing Ferraris or any other high power car which hasn't got a wing. Those are easily destabilized and a push draft more than often drives a F-40 into sideways drift. Especially if the car is setup with excessive toe settings. Happened to me a lot. Tired of being bumped out in every second corner. F-40 manages a turn speed of approximately 265 km/h while a tuned car with low wing manages 280 km/h.

In a race consisting of cars of roughly the same downforce, power and weight (NASCAR, Clio cup, Go-kart and Tourig cars) this makes more sense. But in GT5P, cars participating in races are more than often in different classes. Elise vs Corvette vs Ferrari vs Clio etc. Those heavier cars tend to push lighter cars over the limit, causing them to go of the track or lose speed in the curves due to missing the racing line. Bordering to a cheat...

Ding!

That's it right there.
 
Nice vids those are textbook. Learn those moves online with a willing partner you can trust and hang on as you rocket to the front. A full field of 16(8 teams of 2 ) all bump drafting would be incredible racing.:dopey:
 
Well its all aboutif you are able to keep up with me in my Tuned Ford GT LM Test Car.

I am in the top 3 every race now. lol
 
Hmmm... can you ride the wake of a bump-drafting pair?

Well... if the bone of contention is that bump-drafting is an unfair advantage... why don't you just mooch off their draft wake? :lol:

For me... well... I don't have online access at home right now (have an issue with our ISP), but being a member here for quite a few years, I understand that many of the oldies have a very strict sense of fairplay, so I understand TM's objection (aye, I knew the lad when he were naught but a wee member, like meself)... but I can see this being a fun thing in Private Daytona rooms online... I'm no NASCAR fan, but I appreciate the team-strategy aspect of bump-drafting.

But this will all depend on the upcoming GT5's damage modelling. In GT5p... you can get away with it, but like I've said before, dozens of microcollisions on every straight might make a damage-engine do strange things to the cars involved.
 
you most certainly could ride behind a bump drafting pair in fact you could pass them with out to much trouble. The advantage in bump drafting is in the long run. If they where running 1,2 after you pass them you'll slow back down to normal speed where as they have each other to help speed up and will overtake you again. after that theres nothing stopping you from falling back in line, drafting up and passing them again. Now it wont be as easy as catching a signal car but its buy no means imposable. Bump drafting isn't a glitch or a cheat its just a tactic, a tactic that tracks like Dayton are all about. It involves teamwork and a coordinated effort between two or more people its not unbeatable nor dose it garente those people a win.
 
Once more and more people realize the the mechanics of racing especially in the Daytona Drafting format the better the racing will be for all. Imagine you have several cars all drafting and here comes the last corner and usually in Nascar its a patient game of picking your moment because anywhere from 1st in the draft to 5th or 6th could win by using the slingshot momentum to take the win. As an avid viewer of NASCAR this kind of racing would be fantastic to be apart of.

I know the ramming continues but i have noticed that some racers now realize that causing problems for others in a race simply takes away there chance to win the race. I raced for 4 hours lastnight and apart from a few late braking rearenders that sent me off and even thought that occured there was even some courtesy of NON GTP cars moving over to allow the pass. Sorry to drift off the subject but my point is wether it be Suzuka or Daytona and i,m not sure if i,ve just been lucky but the racing for me has definately improved.

Pack your bags Viper Baby were off to DAYTONA !

BUTTONJ
 
I think that one was what I was looking for. Jostling for position in a drafting queue and waiting for the sprint to the finish sounds exactly like what you want to see in an oval race. Nowhere else in GT5 would this be acceptable, but it would be something to see... as long as it's implemented correctly.
 
I think that one was what I was looking for. Jostling for position in a drafting queue and waiting for the sprint to the finish sounds exactly like what you want to see in an oval race. Nowhere else in GT5 would this be acceptable, but it would be something to see... as long as it's implemented correctly.

That's another thing, you don't want to be first on the last lap because noone will help you. The ideal thing to do is lay back about 2-3 car lenghts behind the guy in front of you and once you get out of turns 2 or 4 draft up to him and if he tryes to block you just try and fake him. I'll try and get a video of that being done later today.👍
 
That's another thing, you don't want to be first on the last lap because noone will help you. The ideal thing to do is lay back about 2-3 car lenghts behind the guy in front of you and once you get out of turns 2 or 4 draft up to him and if he tryes to block you just try and fake him. I'll try and get a video of that being done later today.👍

Oh but I want to be first on the last lap, so they can overtake me on the back stretch, then I can over take them in turn 4, very seldomly do they ever caught me before the start finish line.

JButton, we need to trash the viper babies! :) The Vettes too!

Oh and BTW your boy is leading the points standings. Good for him :)
 
That's another thing, you don't want to be first on the last lap because noone will help you. The ideal thing to do is lay back about 2-3 car lenghts behind the guy in front of you and once you get out of turns 2 or 4 draft up to him and if he tryes to block you just try and fake him. I'll try and get a video of that being done later today.👍

Unless your nose to tail with first place, you will never draft past anyone once you exit turn 4. This is a better technique:

Oh but I want to be first on the last lap, so they can overtake me on the back stretch, then I can over take them in turn 4, very seldomly do they ever caught me before the start finish line.

As a rule if I have a guy behind me at the start of the last lap, I let him draft me up to turn 1, then concede first place (easing off a little to get some distance between my car and the car infront). I then neatly tuck behind first place, and draft past at the exit of turn 2.

The guy behind will always retaliate and draft back into first. This is good, because it is better to be behind some one into turn 3, than have him behind you. as he takes his line, I take mine. I'm very fast on all of the corners, and can keep excellent speed on the yellow line, so it is easy to keep the car infront exactly where I want him. As turn four comes into view, I'm already drafting him, and by the exit, I am easily travelling faster than him for the sprint to the finish.

As another lead extender, I always come in high (above the racing line) to a low start line finish. This is good because the guy behind you will want to pick up your tow, but as he has to travel further to get to the finish line (and at a lower speed), you can guarantee finishing ahead.

One last thing, has anyone considered the idea of 'defensive drafting'? I don't know if this is an actual real world tactic (I've never seen a single NASCAR race), but in GT5:P, it is an excellent way of shaking 'some' drivers off your tail.

I've only recently latched onto this technique, but at times, especially on the corners (and if I'm sure of the car and drivers ability), I will purposely manoeuvre my cars slipstream into the trailing car. If that driver is flat out behind, the extra burst of speed will cause him or her to rise to the wall, allowing me to gain both speed and distance on them as they try to counter the speed boost. This is a great distraction technique, and it can cause the amateurs to get an unwanted collision penalty! This technique works best on turns 3 and 4. On many occasions, I have exited turn 4, after having a car nose-to-tail with me on entering turn 3, only to extend a 1.5 second gap by the time I've crossed the finish line. 👍
 
Mmm

I think you're more likely to get Brake checked than get co-operation.

Yeah Yeah I'm cynical :sly:

Agree... it happens very often. Even when you are just drafting.

I don't mid being bump drafted, and I hold a line in the straights. But I prefer to take my time and use the draft to my own and only benefit at the end of a straight. Ill get the other guys ahead, eventually. Or not... but it will be my doing.
 
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