The Earth is Flat?

[Scaff]

They need to ignore some things that the institutions teach. Such as how large and how far away the sun and stars are because if the sun is smaller and closer to earth the observed "effects" can work on a flat earth too.

Please tell me you are not talking about the sun as a spotlight idea!

If you have ever been to a show of any sort you should be able to figure out the problem with that concept.

 

[Famine]

Again how do you know you will for a fact it is like that? Probably it is but just amusing it is because of someone have said it to you does not make it necessarily to be true.

So the answer is yes, you do believe that you have to go into space and be in physical contact with it to measure it. Incredible.

The second question remains then: If Flat-Earthers believe that the Sun is small and close, how have they measured it? Have they also gone into space and been in physical contact with it? Or do they get a pass on any requirement to demonstrate their claims?

 

[Northstar]

That is what I mean, we should not think that everything is a given fact if we ourselves have not confirmed something.

I have though. I’m not sure how many times I have to repeat that fact, but I’m willing to try.

 

[Scaff]

Yes, you are right, but I go by all the videos that they show, and I hope that they are not screwed by themselves. But it is not that I am swallowing this thing whole, all the FE has done is that I do not believe what I hear until I myself can confirm this.

And yet you refuse to try any of the experiments provided!

Excuse me if I simply don't believe you saying the above.

You give your new god a free pass, while demonising the old gods. All without any need for experimentation or independently verifiable proof.

Why have you never addressed the clealry incorrect claims they make out southern hemisphere flights for example?

 

[Dennisch]

how have they measured it?

Validated tool for the FE community.

 

[PzR Slim]

Again how do you know you will for a fact it is like that? Probably it is but just amusing it is because of someone have said it to you does not make it necessarily to be true.

It's because of the scientific method. Something you clearly have no understanding of.

 

[Pillo-san]

And yet you refuse to try any of the experiments provided!

Excuse me if I simply don't believe you saying the above.

You give your new god a free pass, while demonising the old gods. All without any need for experimentation or independently verifiable proof.

Why have you never addressed the clealry incorrect claims they make out southern hemisphere flights for example?

Why should I look into any links provided when it only is talking about stuff that we here have taken for granted. I do not need any more "confirmations" like these, school in Sweden is pretty scientifically so stuff like this does nothing for me. The only way I would accept the cosmology as a fact is if I saw it for myself up close, but if I did it would still not change the fact that I must got to work and live my life.

Flights in the southern hemisphere have been plenty explained by plentiful of FE videos. either they fly righ over places that are in the north hemisphere or the gps signal often disappears over the ocean and then appears near the destination. That is if you go by the FE videos.


But yet again, if you have such questions then go and watch the clips instead of trying to get me in a position that I have to defend a topic, and stupid as I am I do it

It's because of the scientific method. Something you clearly have no understanding of.

Okey? you are allowed to say stuff like these but I am not allowed to say that someone is obnoxious? haha okey, do you see what I am saying that you all try to paint something about me that you have no clue about? I do not consider myself as a flatearther but I do like the topic and I would consider myself that if I really cared but I do not.

I am again very surprised how people can be so fanatically square and when they dont like something that goes against their opinions/understanding they lash out. Just like religious fanatics.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Flights in the southern hemisphere have been plenty explained by plentiful of FE videos. either they fly righ over places that are in the north hemisphere or the gps signal often disappears over the ocean and then appears near the destination. That is if you go by the FE videos.

What about the people who live in the southern hemisphere? And where exactly does the GPS signal come from - obviously it's impossible for a geosynchronous orbit to occur over a disc, no?

 

[Dotini]

Here is the introduction to flat Earth from wikipedia:

The flat Earth model is an archaic conception of Earth's shape as a plane or disk. Many ancient cultures subscribed to a flat Earth cosmography, including Greece until the classical period, the Bronze Age and Iron Age civilizations of the Near East until the Hellenistic period, India until the Gupta period (early centuries AD), and China until the 17th century. That paradigm was also typically held in the aboriginal cultures of the Americas, and the notion of a flat Earth domed by the firmament in the shape of an inverted bowl was common in pre-scientific societies.[1]

The idea of a spherical Earth appeared in Greek philosophy with Pythagoras (6th century BC), although most pre-Socratics (6th – 5th century BC) retained the flat Earth model. Aristotle provided evidence for the spherical shape of the Earth on empirical grounds by around 330 BC. Knowledge of the spherical Earth gradually began to spread beyond the Hellenistic world from then on.[2][3][4][5]

In the modern era, pseudoscientific[6] flat Earth theories have been espoused by modern flat Earth societies and, increasingly, by unaffiliated individuals using social media.[7][8]

They go on to point out that organized flat-Earth societies mostly dissolved when their leaders died out , but the idea revived with unaffiliated individuals and social media.

It seems to me that flat Earth notions are merely an artifact of individuals with lots of time, money and freedom, and an artifact of social media. So, boiled down, too much individualism, too much prosperity and too much social media. If it were really that much of a problem, the solution might be less toleration of individualism, freedom, and social media. IMO, not worth the cost.

 

[Famine]

Why should I look into any links provided when it only is talking about stuff that we here have taken for granted. I do not need any more "confirmations" like these, school in Sweden is pretty scientifically so stuff like this does nothing for me.

If you think that the Sun can only be measured by touching it (unless you're saying it's small and close in which case it's okay to make numbers up) the pretty scientifically school hasn't done its job.

The most important parts of the scientific method are:
You test to prove yourself wrong.
Anyone else can do same tests - or their own.

You can measure the Sun yourself. You can measure the Moon. You can measure the Earth. You can do all of these things yourself, in very little time. Why should you? It stops you from being suckered into pseudoscience hokum like Flat Earth "theory" which requires you to pretend all sorts of facts aren't facts, to take intuition over reason and, crucially, to never, ever test anything for yourself.

the gps signal

Ah yes, the GPS signal. That one that comes from the 30+ geosynchronous satellites that orbit... the... oh...

 

[TenEightyOne]

If you think that the Sun can only be measured by touching it (unless you're saying it's small and close in which case it's okay to make numbers up)

Oh, small .vs. "far away", always a tripping point.

 

[Exorcet]

That is what I mean, we should not think that everything is a given fact if we ourselves have not confirmed something. playing with calculations without backing it up with real world experiments is not proof but more akin to story telling but with numbers instead of words.

I've brought up the problem that you're missing here with flat earthers before. They essentially want everyone to verify the entire history of science (well not really, they'll happily assume things that they think support their claims) before claiming to know something or trust something. That's not practical. If you want to take a more practical approach to this, question things that you are actually willing and able to test.

There is nothing wrong with making assumptions on what is correct when you have a practical basis for doing so, like past research. If you run into a problem after making the assumption, then you might have a reason to question it. I'd think that most people working in a scientific field have done lots of experimenting to validate what they were taught. I was encourage to experiment since elementary school. It continued in high school and beyond.

You should also keep in mind that calculations come out of real world experiments. Scientific laws are derived from repeatable observation. They aren't just pulled from nowhere. This is why theoretical physics works and can predict things before we actually see them.

Flat Earth isn't about questioning things anyway. From all of my time looking into it and trying to figure out why people believe it, it just leads back to religion in most cases.

 

[Pillo-san]

What about the people who live in the southern hemisphere? And where exactly does the GPS signal come from - obviously it's impossible for a geosynchronous orbit to occur over a disc, no?

If we had satellites all over the place then stuff like that would not happen, and FE people say that it is because the gps we use is land based just like wifi/gms triangulation.

 

[Scaff]

Why should I look into any links provided when it only is talking about stuff that we here have taken for granted. I do not need any more "confirmations" like these, school in Sweden is pretty scientifically so stuff like this does nothing for me. The only way I would accept the cosmology as a fact is if I saw it for myself up close, but if I did it would still not change the fact that I must got to work and live my life.

So first hand experimentation that may challenge your views in out.

Your not open minded in that case, quite the opposite.

Flights in the southern hemisphere have been plenty explained by plentiful of FE videos. either they fly righ over places that are in the north hemisphere or the gps signal often disappears over the ocean and then appears near the destination. That is if you go by the FE videos.

Except they don't, the GPS data doesn't disapear, nor do they go into the Northern Hemisphere.

None of the claims of this given in FE videos consists of anymore evidence that, 'because I say so'; with the majority actually claiming that these flights don't even exist!

I've given you link to both the existence of these flights and teh ability to track them, yet you again refuse to use this to validate or dismiss teh claim.

Once again not open minded.

But yet again, if you have such questions then go and watch the clips instead of trying to get me in a position that I have to defend a topic, and stupid as I am I do it

I have watched them, I have replied to them and all I got last time was a refusal to engage and insults and miss-quotes.

I'm sorry to say that trend appears to be repeating itself.

You are also the one making the claim to be open minded, yet your very behaviour in this thread and the last one clearly shows that is not the case at all.

If we had satellites all over the place then stuff like that would not happen, and FE people say that it is because the gps we use is land based just like wifi/gms triangulation.

Sorry GPS is now land based!

Now that I'm going to have to ask for some evidence of.

Oh and just to be clear 'and FE people say......' doesn't absolve you from providing supporting evidence, you do not get to try and hide behind that.

 

[PzR Slim]

Okey? you are allowed to say stuff like these but I am not allowed to say that someone is obnoxious? haha okey, do you see what I am saying that you all try to paint something about me that you have no clue about? I do not consider myself as a flatearther but I do like the topic and I would consider myself that if I really cared but I do not.

I am again very surprised how people can be so fanatically square and when they dont like something that goes against their opinions/understanding they lash out. Just like religious fanatics.

If you truly did understand the scientific method you would realise why we are all in here so vehemently disagreeing with you.

Religious fanatics have blind faith. Those that believe in the scientific method do so because it allows measurable, repeatable, peer reviewed evidence to form it conclusions. They are the polar opposites of one another.

 

[Pillo-san]

So first hand experimentation that may challenge your views in out.

Your not open minded in that case, quite the opposite.



Except they don't, the GPS data doesn't disapear, nor do they go into the Northern Hemisphere.

None of the claims of this given in FE videos consists of anymore evidence that, 'because I say so'; with the majority actually claiming that these flights don't even exist!

I've given you link to both the existence of these flights and teh ability to track them, yet you again refuse to use this to validate or dismiss teh claim.

Once again not open minded.


I have watched them, I have replied to them and all I got last time was a refusal to engage and insults and miss-quotes.

I'm sorry to say that trend appears to be repeating itself.

You are also the one making the claim to be open minded, yet your very behaviour in this thread and the last one clearly shows that is not the case at all.


Sorry GPS is now land based!

Now that I'm going to have to ask for some evidence of.

Oh and just to be clear 'and FE people say......' doesn't absolve you from providing supporting evidence, you do not get to try and hide behind that.

Well, I am open minded to the FE because I take what they show/tell in their videos with an open mind without lashing out at them or belittling them. I have accepted everything that scientifically institutions have said as a fact with blind faith. The FE videos have many interesting arguments and the FE videos have shown me that I should question a lot of accepted assertions. Even the FE claims themselves.

As I have not done any experiments bedside flying and not seeing any curvature that many says that they see, I take their claims that the earth is flat as a really refreshing Idea without throwing the idea out after 2 min of hearing it. They show many instances with strange oddities from nasa footage and regardless of how the world really looks like, those oddities are indeed something to ponder about.

Just listening to the FE idea without calling them fools and the like is being open minded. Accepted astro physics and the like I can return to whenever I feel like, but right now I am not in a mood for that as it feels to much like mumbo jumbo when I constantly see people that cant even think for themselves without looking back and maybe questioning stuff that we have been taught in school.

Just like someone, have said, that he is only responsible for himself and that he can say openly that he wants people dead because of how their opinion about our cosmology I am entitled to wander of in a direction that is not accepted by everyone, am I not? But even so, I still do not consider myself as a true flatearther I want my Enterprise ship tomorrow

 

[Scaff]

OK.

No idea what simply quoting my post without comment is supposed to indicate?

 

[rono_thomas]

 

[Pillo-san]

If you truly did understand the scientific method you would realise why we are all in here so vehemently disagreeing with you.

Religious fanatics have blind faith. Those that believe in the scientific method do so because it allows measurable, repeatable, peer reviewed evidence to form it conclusions. They are the polar opposites of one another.

Because many of you just like me and my friends rely too much on what some scientists have said as truth, yet we have not done any research in this field ourselves yet we gladly accept it as truth by blind faith. If somebody gives us a worldview and have a mathematically calculation for that model does it make the world view actually true?

Yet we go around and spread stuff that we actually have no way of confirming, if we dont see it for our selves. This is where I am right now without calling me a straight up Flatearther.

There is to many oddities in how the picture of our world is, to much stuff are ignored and by the scientifically institutions and to much seems to be not really consistent with what we have been told with to much "fakery".

 

[Northstar]

Because many of you just like me and my friends rely to much on what some scientists have said is true, yet we have not done any research in this field ourselves yet we gladly accept it as truth by blind faith. If somebody gives us a worldview and have a mathematically calculation for that model does it make the world view actually true?

Yet we go around and spread stuff that we actually have no way of confirming, if we dont see it for our selves. This is where I am right now without calling me a straight up Flatearther.

Okay, so if we shouldn’t blindly trust scientists (which I agree with), why should we than blindly trust random YouTube videos saying the earth is flat?

 

[Pillo-san]

Okay, so if we shouldn’t blindly trust scientists (which I agree with), why should we than blindly trust random YouTube videos saying the earth is flat?

No no, that is not what I try to say at all. Just that an open mind should be able to listen to their point of view and not lash out at them.

I mean, look how this thread looks like. I cant even take a breath before I get reply and often the reply is not that "nice" but I deal with it as good as I can. Imagine how a flat out flatearther would be treated here

 

[homeforsummer]

No no, that is not what I try to say at all. Just that a open mind should be able to listen to their point of view and not lash out at them.

Their points of view are well-known and well-worn. They have been listened to, and they have been disproven. None have ever come up with anything that is more likely or more accurate that what we already know. It is not open-minded to continue to believe them when we know unequivocally that they are wrong.

 

[Famine]

Because many of you just like me and my friends rely to much on what some scientists have said is true

You don't have to. Once again, the scientific method allows anyone to test anything for themselves. Allows and indeed encourages - every method is written out for anyone to replicate, or find fault with, or improve.

The song I posted earlier is aimed at getting children to understand the scientific method, but it holds true for anyone:

Are you sure that that thing is true? Or did someone just tell it to you? Come up with a test - test it out.
Find a way to show what would happen if you were incorrect. A fact is just a fantasy unless it can be checked - make a test, test it out.

You don't have to take anyone's word for anything. You can - and should - test it.


Pretending that all information offered is of equal strength and refusing to test or even scrutinise it isn't having an open mind.

 

[Scaff]

Well, I am open minded to the FE because I take what they show/tell in their videos with an open mind. I have accepted everything that scientifically institutions have said with as a fact with blind faith and all there FE videos with many interesting arguments and clips have shown me that I should question a lot of accepted/assertions. Even the FE claims themselves.

I've not seen you question one FE claim at all, quite the opposite.

As I have not done any experiments bedside flying and not seeing any curvature that many says that they see,

Nope. Most people will tell you its difficult on most commercial flights (particularly short haul) to see it, as you don't fly high enough.

What you seem to be doing is taking a FE strawman and presenting it as if it were a valid claim against them.

I take their claims that the earth is flat as a really refreshing Idea without throwing the idea out after 2 min of hearing it.

YOu do a lot more than that, as you refuse to accept any counter or experiment that might show FE to be wrong. To the degree of refusing to even attempt basic experiments.

They show many instances with strange oddities form nasa footage and regardless of how the world really looks like those oddities are indeed something to ponder about. Just listening to the FE idea without calling them fools and the like is being open minded. Accepted astro physics and the like I can return to whenever I feel like, but right now I am not in a mood for that as it feels to much like mumbo jumbo when I constantly see people that cant even think for themselves that stuff that we have been taught in school maybe it not 100% true.

Not a single person here aside from you has advocated taking anything on blind faith, yet that's exactly what you are doing when you repeatedly say 'FE says........' and then refuse to even look at any other explanation.

Can I just remind you that you spent days claiming NASA were carrying out a massive trick with looped live footage that wasn't even being broadcast by them or even live, and ignoring the fact that it shows the curvature of the earth in it!

You quite literally accepted that on blind faith.

Just like someone, have said, that he is only responsible for himself and that he can say openly that he wants people dead because of how their opinion about our cosmology I am entitled to wander of in a direction that is not accepted by everyone, am I not? But even so, I still do not consider myself as a true flatearther I want my Enterprise ship tomorrow

What you consider yourself and how you present yourself need to sit down and have a good chat with each other!

No no, that is not what I try to say at all. Just that a open mind should be able to listen to their point of view and not lash out at them.

Every one of the views that you have provided from them has been discussed and a counter argument, the vast majority, if not all, with methods you can use to check the validity of the claim.

You have refused to look at or try any of the experiments that have been provided.

Please don't try and say you are holding both sides to the same standard of evidence, as you are quite clearly not doing so at all.

 

[PzR Slim]

Because many of you just like me and my friends rely too much on what some scientists have said as truth, yet we have not done any research in this field ourselves yet we gladly accept it as truth by blind faith. If somebody gives us a worldview and have a mathematically calculation for that model does it make the world view actually true?

Yet we go around and spread stuff that we actually have no way of confirming, if we dont see it for our selves. This is where I am right now without calling me a straight up Flatearther.

There is to many oddities in how the picture of our world is, to much stuff are ignored and by the scientifically institutions and to much seems to be not really consistent with what we have been told with to much "fakery".

You clearly aren't listening to what members in here are suggesting. You do not have to rely on what scientists and institutions tell you. You can use the scientific method yourself and carry out some of the very easy and straightforward experiments yourself to prove to yourself the truth.

 

[Pillo-san]

Their points of view are well-known and well-worn. They have been listened to, and they have been disproven. None have ever come up with anything that is more likely or more accurate that what we already know. It is not open-minded to continue to believe them when we know unequivocally that they are wrong.

I have not seen one single serious video being debunked, all those videos are basically saying, Nasa says... that is not much of a debunk.

 

[kikie]

I want to say my 2 cents in this matter without being insultive.

If you have no intention of even to read up upon the subject at hand and just post to stuff that our institutions have said represent our reality then to me you loose out by default in this matter. If you think they should be disposed of and this is a stupid idea/topic without even knowing what it is about and how they explain from their point of view then I cant help you at all. As u see I am not only looking into FE but other things as well but to be honest I like FE just because of what it have dont to me, ie be more open minded and question everything

The institutions, if I understand correctly, are organizations, establisments, foundations, society. You do know that some of these institutions (maybe I'm making a fool of myself by not interpreting institutions correctly) are giving us the scientific evidence that the earth is a globe and not a flat disk? So, people like me, whom don't believe in flat earth and find it funny, strange and outright ridiculous, loose by default because we believe in the scientific evidence giving by our institutions. And you claim to be open-minded?
No, you don't question everything. You question the scientific evidence is such a way that you even ignore it (you said it yourself).

I watch these youtube videos myself only to entertain myself. I don't comment in the comment section. I'm not threatened by the flat earthers, I'm not insulted by them. It doesn't make me angry.

I was a super duper mega science dork until 2015-2016. Maybe it is because I got tired of it or something as I age(mabye dementia? ) but FE topic has captivated my interest, but even so it is old news to me but I find it Odd that people are so afraid of this topic.

• You were a super duper mega science dork and yet you are very interested in, as @Famine stated many times in this thread, pseudoscience.
• You were a super duper mega science dork and yet you don't want to look at the scientific evidence or even try a few experiements yourself.
• You say you are open-minded and yet ignore the scientific evidence that the earth is indeed a globe and not flat. How can you be open-minded if you discard evidence?

And how do you know what you have been tough is true? that is the point.

Because of proven scientific evidence! Going back to hundreds of years before Christ.

Globe = science
Flat earth = religion (proof = some quote the bible and say that the firmament (dome over the flat earth) is described in the bible.

Yes, you are right, but I go by all the videos that they show, and I hope that they are not screwed by themselves. But it is not that I am swallowing this thing whole, all the FE has done is that I do not believe what I hear until I myself can confirm this.

That means never because you don't want to do simple math, experiments and look at the evidence giving by our institutions.



The more you post, the more contradictions you write. I'm starting to believe that you are a flat earther and won't even admit it to yourself. I could be wrong though. But that is okay. Everybody is entitled to his own opinion.

 

[Dennisch]

This is even worse than discussing religion.

 

[Scaff]

I have not seen one single serious video being debunked, all those videos are basically saying, Nasa says... that is not much of a debunk.

No they are not, and you have been provided with enough links and videos that do not just go 'NASA says......' (nice try given that your only argument is FE says..............), you are the one that has ignored them.

Why not try out the sunset one?

Its stupidly simple and requires not equipment at all?

 

[PzR Slim]

No no, that is not what I try to say at all. Just that an open mind should be able to listen to their point of view and not lash out at them.

I mean, look how this thread looks like. I cant even take a breath before I get reply and often the reply is not that "nice" but I deal with it as good as I can. Imagine how a flat out flatearther would be treated here

Following the scientific method is about being as open minded as it's possible to be. A flat earther would be treated in here with the same scorn as anyone claiming something that is demonstrably untrue.