The F1 driver transfer discussion/speculation archiveFormula 1 

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Ferrari are not exactly the team that makes logical decisions recently.

Massa is a good example of that.

If I was in charge of Ferrari, I would replace Kimi with Button on a single year contract(he isn't the fastest driver but he will score the points) for a possible Hamilton or Ricciardo buy in 2016, and with the other Seat have Vettel.

But ferraris biggest issues isn't drivers its technical team, taking pat symonds would be a good start back towards the front.


Allison and pat symonds together would threaten Mercedes and Redbull.
 
While Kimi is overall on the south side of mediocre this season, I think that's a better representation of Ferrari's actual pace since Alonso can get more out of a car than anyone else on the grid, so I agree that when he's not with Ferrari next year, the team will be fighting on the lower end of the points unless their new car next year is a major turnaround from what they've been since 2008.

Then again, if Vettel does go to Ferrari, it won't be an immediate jump to the front of the grid either. I only started watching F1 in 1995 when I finally had access to a channel that aired the races and even then it was pretty sporadic when I did watch due to being a kid at the time, but I don't remember Schumacher being an immediate success at Ferrari when he left Benetton.
 
GTPorsche
While Kimi is overall on the south side of mediocre this season, I think that's a better representation of Ferrari's actual pace since Alonso can get more out of a car than anyone else on the grid, so I agree that when he's not with Ferrari next year, the team will be fighting on the lower end of the points unless their new car next year is a major turnaround from what they've been since 2008.

Then again, if Vettel does go to Ferrari, it won't be an immediate jump to the front of the grid either. I only started watching F1 in 1995 when I finally had access to a channel that aired the races and even then it was pretty sporadic when I did watch due to being a kid at the time, but I don't remember Schumacher being an immediate success at Ferrari when he left Benetton.
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Schumacher only really became a championship contender in '97 as it went down to the last race.

1996 was a year when he won 3 races IIRC and it was a transition year. Much like Hamilton's '13 campaign compared to this year.
 
Next year's competitiveness comes down to the teams winning their struggle to get the engine rules changed. Without the rule change they'll be stuck with pretty much the same engines for 2015.
 
I think that a lot people at Ferrari are relieved that Alonso is going, actually.
He's been labelled several times as a really selfish person during these years, by different kinds of Ferrari-related people.
The top level (Marchionne, Mattiacci) even if it has changed a lot recently, knows that Alonso was given a lot of freedom of choice on more things than usual, and he's always been treated like an untouchable Messiah. So, when he says things like "What I want as a birthday present? A RedBull", or "What's wrong with the car? I'm a driver and not an engineer, speak with them", or "The car isn't even good enough for 6th or 7th place, but I've finished 2nd" at Ferrari surely know that's probably the truth but it's also rather arrogant, so they're probably fed up with this behavior.
He never misses the chance to emphasize his team-mates performances ("I'm the only one scoring points for the team", "My team-mate finished 45 seconds behind me").
Also, I think that the old guard in the team, especially mechanics, remembers the worst scandal against Ferrari, the Spy story. Alonso was involved in it and he also wanted and obtained another protagonist of it, De La Rosa.

They know they're losing an amazing driver, but they probably see it as a way to completely change the spirit of team. We know that F1 doesn't takes into big consideration the "human side", but when Schumacher always praised the team spirit as the key of their success, he surely wasn't talking about stereotypes.
 
marco89IT
I think that a lot people at Ferrari are relieved that Alonso is going, actually.
He's been labelled several times as a really selfish person during these years, by different kinds of Ferrari-related people.
The top level (Marchionne, Mattiacci) even if it has changed a lot recently, knows that Alonso was given a lot of freedom of choice on more things than usual, and he's always been treated like an untouchable Messiah. So, when he says things like "What I want as a birthday present? A RedBull", or "What's wrong with the car? I'm a driver and not an engineer, speak with them", or "The car isn't even good enough for 6th or 7th place, but I've finished 2nd" at Ferrari surely know that's probably the truth but it's also rather arrogant, so they're probably fed up with this behavior.
He never misses the chance to emphasize his team-mates performances ("I'm the only one scoring points for the team", "My team-mate finished 45 seconds behind me").
Also, I think that the old guard in the team, especially mechanics, remembers the worst scandal against Ferrari, the Spy story. Alonso was involved in it and he also wanted and obtained another protagonist of it, De La Rosa.

They know they're losing an amazing driver, but they probably see it as a way to completely change the spirit of team. We know that F1 doesn't takes into big consideration the "human side", but when Schumacher always praised the team spirit as the key of their success, he surely wasn't talking about stereotypes.
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The main and only protagonist was Nigel stepney, the test and race drivers just do as told.
 
Considering that Aldo Costa also said that Fernando "was quite aloof" I'd say that @marco89IT isn't all that wrong in what he says. I mean if the engineers and the design are the issue as Alonso has stated (even though it was the business model of the team under Fiat) then surely Costa's design shouldn't be doing so great even if paired with the Mercedes engine. Clearly it is the Alonso attitude, more so than the people he blames. And that is part of why Ferrari may be happy to see him go, however the Owners are also troublesome and they aren't helping put Ferrari at the forefront.
 
marco89IT
I don't think that's doing as told.
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And I don't think that something which happened seven years ago is in any way relevant. I think you're trying to excuse Ferrari for an obviously poor car by pinning Alonso's departure solely on Alonso's attitude. But the fact is that despite his attitude, Alonso is carrying the team, as he has been for years.
 
prisonermonkeys
And I don't think that something which happened seven years ago is in any way relevant.
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When Alonso joined Ferrari, it was two years and a few months. Maybe it's a short time to forget the biggest controversy in F1 history.
Alonso has never been gentle about Ferrari in his McLaren and Renault years, saying that they always receive an advantage from FIA and media, and that Schumacher was the most unfair driver in the history of the sport. He played the role of the "victim of the system", but some months later he was asking illegal informations about Ferrari.
We're talking about respect between a driver and his team, so no one knows the real situation. But it's reasonable to think that it wasn't a good start to their relationship.
prisonermonkeys
I think you're trying to excuse Ferrari for an obviously poor car by pinning Alonso's departure solely on Alonso's attitude. But the fact is that despite his attitude, Alonso is carrying the team, as he has been for years.
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I'm not excusing anyone. I'm not a Ferrari fan and even if I were, I'm unbiased enough to say that their car has been poor in recent years.
Alonso is a great driver, probably the most complete on the grid. But the fact that "he is carrying the team" is overused by fans and medias in my opinion. He has a particular driving style and the car has always been designed exactly for his likes, while both Massa and Raikkonen have a different approach. Alonso simply destroyed them and that's impressive, but it's a little bit mitigated by that. He's never been a great qualifying man, and that counts a lot. He's been given a lot of influence but when it suited him, he gave the responsibility of failures to others.
It's too easy to use "I" after winning a race and "we" when you finish 8th. It helps gaining fame within media and fans? Probably yes. It helps your whole team confidence and urge to go on with a positive teamwork? I don't think so.
Alonso skills are unquestionable, and he gave his best with the car he had, that's a fact. So, it's not a problem of driving performance. Ferrari spent huge amounts of money, so it's not a problem of funds either. They've hired some of the best engineers available, but it isn't working. So, it's probably time to change mentality and approach; Domenicali has been sacked, Montezemolo as well. If you think about a change of approach, who's next on the list of people with huge "power" inside Ferrari? The man carrying the team, Fernando.
 
Biggest controversy in f1 history, lol in what world.

i reckon Tyrells 1984's season was worse, and that's just the first thing that comes to my mind.

The only controversial thing about it was they got caught, The only reason why it got exposed was because Alonso Blackmailed Dennis to give him more team favourability in the team over Hamilton, in which Dennis then dobbed himself in rather then meet his demands.

Renault got caught doing the same thing that year but they got no penalty, Most teams back then and probably still now hire people for those exact reasons to steal other teams designs.
 
mustafur
Biggest controversy in f1 history, lol in what world.
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Points of view. 2007's involved three of the biggest names in the sport and in the automotive world, other than big names among drivers and staff people, sabotage attempts. It was proven that it affected the (close) fight for the championship. Especially if you consider F1 as a business it was a big controversy, in my opinion, with McLaren's decades of reputation at risk(they were also about to launch a new, huge project of road cars) and hundreds of millions gone. Now the importance of investors, sponsors, road car makers, companies publicly traded etc. has risen up massively and reputation means a lot. Anyway just my point of view, Tyrrell's one was huge as well, with a lot of infringements.

mustafur
The only controversial thing about it was they got caught
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I don't get the sense of this. It's proven that in cycling, doping is very common. So, the only controversial thing about Lance Armstrong is that he's been caught?

mustafur
Renault got caught doing the same thing that year but they got no penalty, Most teams back then and probably still now hire people for those exact reasons to steal other teams designs.
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True, but there's a thin line between copying others designs and stealing crucial informations. If it's so easy and common to steal important informations from other teams, why they're still spending millions and millions on research and development? s
 
mustafur
Renault got caught doing the same thing that year but they got no penalty, Most teams back then and probably still now hire people for those exact reasons to steal other teams designs.
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I missed that; Renault were definitely caught photocopying a 300-page technical dossier down-the-newsagent's? Or something else? Maybe mass-damper-gate, but that was a regulatory argument. Or Nelsinho-gate when two team principals were banned from the sport?

And do you accept that there's a difference between physically copying detailed plans and asking an ex-engineer how they did something?
 
TenEightyOne
I missed that; Renault were definitely caught photocopying a 300-page technical dossier down-the-newsagent's? Or something else? Maybe mass-damper-gate, but that was a regulatory argument. Or Nelsinho-gate when two team principals were banned from the sport?

And do you accept that there's a difference between physically copying detailed plans and asking an ex-engineer how they did something?
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http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/11/7076.html

Not the same thing but you would be insane to think there isn't a team on the grid that hasn't done exactly what your claiming.

The main offence here is actually having the details on paper and in possesion, can't exactly penalise a team for being in possesion of an engineer that knows things.
 
Whoever is running Romain Grosjean's Facebook page is doing a really good job of it, claiming "BIG" news is on the way, even though Lotus expect to keep him.
 
prisonermonkeys
Whoever is running Romain Grosjean's Facebook page is doing a really good job of it, claiming "BIG" news is on the way, even though Lotus expect to keep him.
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Right now it's nice to be anywhere, I should think. Especially with three more pay drivers on the market.
 
Top teams will want a fast driver to act as blocker to other championship rivals and lower end teams will want another pay driver.
 
A long shot I know, but my hope is that it gets introduced along with a rule stating that the third car must be occupied by someone within the teams development program. They may need to add that the driver has to have been in the program for at least X months (to stop Alonso joining Mercedes "development" scheme and therefore allowing him to drive the third car, for example). Also needs provision for drivers to be placed within other teams (like Ferrari's academy driver line up, or Red Bull's development program with Toro Rosso).
 
I personaly can't see how a 3 car idea is sustainable and would likely mean the beginning of the end if they don't sort the finanical distribution.

F1 is a Wealthy sport that shouldn't be in the position of struggling for car numbers, it's just more proof the people at the top are sucking it dry.
 
The ones at the top don't want change, and the ones at the bottom are hurting because of it.

Those top teams could survive on smaller budgets and I doubt it would change their results in races.
 
This is from motorsport.com so take it with a pinch of salt... but their "what if" story suggests Alonso may now be biding his time before separating from Ferrari. With Vettel all-but-confirmed and Raikkonnen apparently going nowhere it's possible, they suggest, that Alonso could waiting for Ferrari pay him to go away.

I'm surprised they didn't think of the potential for a Vettel, Alonso, Raikkonnen super-three-car-team, although it would be a very quiet ride home.
 
TenEightyOne
This is from motorsport.com so take it with a pinch of salt... but their "what if" story suggests Alonso may now be biding his time before separating from Ferrari. With Vettel all-but-confirmed and Raikkonnen apparently going nowhere it's possible, they suggest, that Alonso could waiting for Ferrari pay him to go away.

I'm surprised they didn't think of the potential for a Vettel, Alonso, Raikkonnen super-three-car-team, although it would be a very quiet ride home.
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If Alonso is haggling over the terms of his Ferrari severance, that suggests to me all is not well in his negotiations with McLaren-Honda. Which in turn suggests the events of seven years ago retain considerable relevance for a certain Mr. Dennis, who I don't think is necessarily Christian enough to ignore the chance he's been offered by circumstance to put Alonso out of F1, perhaps even for good.
 
zippy_the_cat
If Alonso is haggling over the terms of his Ferrari severance, that suggests to me all is not well in his negotiations with McLaren-Honda. Which in turn suggests the events of seven years ago retain considerable relevance for a certain Mr. Dennis, who I don't think is necessarily Christian enough to ignore the chance he's been offered by circumstance to put Alonso out of F1, perhaps even for good.
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Or Ferrari got ahead of themselves by hiring a new driver for next year before Alonso had actually quit on paper. His lawyers probably smelled blood, and told him not to do anything because they know that Ferrari will then have to pay him out if he refuses to quit.

Wouldn't surprise me, give that the Montezemolo "let me out of my contract pls thx" deal seemed very under the table in the first place.
 
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