The F1 driver transfer discussion/speculation archiveFormula 1

[mikeerfol]

Mark Gallagher‏@_markgallagher
All we need now is for Jeremy Clarkson to turn up in that Melbourne court and punch the Sauber lawyer for failing to provide a car.

 

[LancerEvo7]

I understand why Giedo's fighting for the seat if he paid for it, but isn't this essentially going to kill his F1 career?

 

[Eva]

Since it is an appeal by the defendant, wouldn't it make more sense for the defendant to get the most amount of time?

It's actually an equal amount. Ericsson/Nasr and Suaber are on the same side at the moment.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Since it is an appeal by the defendant, wouldn't it make more sense for the defendant to get the most amount of time?

There's a high degree of cross-over between the Sauber and Ericsson/Nasr cases, so they effectively get two hours. And just because each party has all of that time, it doesn't mean that they will use it. Van der Garde's lawyer is unlikely to introduce anything new.

I understand why Giedo's fighting for the seat if he paid for it, but isn't this essentially going to kill his F1 career?

Yes, it probably will. But it's evident that he's ignoring it - he no doubt thinks that he will be good enough to overcome the dispute when it comes time to negotiate a new contract.

 

[mustafur]

Oh I think he knows; he just doesn't care. Admittedly I was wrong about the time frame of his appeal. Because it turns out what he's doing is actually even more disrespectful. He's trying to force a team into running him, whom simply can't afford to. Does he care if the team goes under? Nope. Does he care if people loss their jobs, and become financially unstable? Nope. As long as he gets what he wants, that's all that matters to him. He really is a nasty piece of work.

Same could be said the other way, teams signing mutliple drivers for 2 seats only to take the ones that are most profitable and neglecting the fact they are legally bound to represent the Contract they signed.

Drivers are people too.

Poor Management is to blame first and formost.

 

[Imari]

Yes, it probably will. But it's evident that he's ignoring it - he no doubt thinks that he will be good enough to overcome the dispute when it comes time to negotiate a new contract.

Let's be honest, without this happening he was out of F1 anyway. On last season's merit most teams would rather roll the dice with a new driver than pick up VDG.

He's apparently been shafted out of a seat that allows him one more roll of the dice. He's unlikely to suddenly become an amazing driver, but weirder things have happened. If he really wants to be in F1, he's doing the right thing by at least giving himself more race time to attempt to justify to someone else that he deserves a drive.

==========

It will be interesting when we find out what the actual specifics of the contract violation have been. I think that will determine whether or not VDG is hireable by anybody any more. If Sauber tried to pay him off and he refused to take anything but a seat, he's likely shafted because that's just a 🤬 move. If Sauber just told him to get lost, then he's totally entitled to fight for what was agreed to and any driver should be expected to do the same.

I could believe either at the moment. Sauber clearly didn't have all their ducks in a row legally, and so who knows what they did to try to take advantage of VDG. I'm all for supporting the smaller and struggling teams, but not if they do it at the expense of other people or by legal shenanigans.

It doesn't seem like VDG is to blame if Sauber goes under because of this, Sauber dug their own grave by signing contracts that they couldn't honour.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Kaltenborn has appeared before the appeal, and Sauber have highlighted two interesting points - that van der Garde had his contract terminated in February, and that the FIA's Contract Recognition Board was informed of it without complaint; and that van der Garde violated a confidentiality clause in the contract by discussing with the media:

http://m.speedcafe.com/2015/03/12/court-to-decide-van-der-garde-fate-this-afternoon/

Which begs the question: WHY DIDN'T THEY OPEN WITH THAT?

 

[mustafur]

Kaltenborn has appeared before the appeal, and Sauber have highlighted two interesting points - that van der Garde had his contract terminated in February, and that the FIA's Contract Recognition Board was informed of it without complaint; and that van der Garde violated a confidentiality clause in the contract by discussing with the media:

http://m.speedcafe.com/2015/03/12/court-to-decide-van-der-garde-fate-this-afternoon/

Which begs the question: WHY DIDN'T THEY OPEN WITH THAT?

Didn't VDG go to the courts well before that though.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Didn't VDG go to the courts well before that though.

It doesn't matter unless there was a provision in van der Garde's contract that prevented them from signing someone else before the contract was terminated.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Van der Garde verdict will be live-stremed on local media in fifteen minutes.

Sauber also arguing that van der Garde doesn't have a current superlicence.

 

[AnfLaw]

I thought superlicences' were issued until a dedicated effort is taken to have it revoked like the case of Yuji Ide.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I thought superlicences' were issued until a dedicated effort is taken to have it revoked like the case of Yuji Ide.

In order to get a superlicence, first you have to qualify for one. It has to be renewed every year, and you have to apply through your national federation. The FIA will only approve of applicants if they satisfy the conditions and are nominated to drive by the team.

 

[GTPorsche]

Adam Cooper@adamcooperF11m

Appeal is dismissed - so@GvanderGarde has won

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Unfortunate.

He'll have no-one to blame but himself when his car doesn't start.

 

[AnfLaw]

In order to get a superlicence, first you have to qualify for one. It has to be renewed every year, and you have to apply through your national federation. The FIA will only approve of applicants if they satisfy the conditions and are nominated to drive by the team.

Do you think he is pushing so hard - not just because he is *owed* the seat, but because of the reg changes in qualifying for a superlicence from next season? with the points required in other formula and his lack of running anywhere else? Do it now, or miss even more seasons re-qualifying?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Do you think he is pushing so hard - not just because he is *owed* the seat, but because of the reg changes in qualifying for a superlicence from next season? with the points required in other formula and his lack of running anywhere else? Do it now, or miss even more seasons re-qualifying?

No, I think he pushed that hard because he thinks that he genuinely deserved to be there, despite having achieved nothing. Now he has forced his way into a team that clearly doesn't want him there, and seems to expect that everything will be okay.

The only person who wants Giedo van der Garde in Formula 1 is Giedo van der Garde. Hopefully a Brazilian bank or a Swedish aerospace engineering firm will buy his contract and we'll never hear from him again.

 

[GTPorsche]

Adam Cooper@adamcooperF15m

Legal saga continues - @GvanderGardeis to about to apply for an enforcement of the order, to ensure @SauberF1Teamto complies...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

So what happens if the FIA refuse to grant a superlicence? What happens if Sauber fail to qualify within 107%? What happens if van der Garde has engine problems - be they legitimate or sabotaged - and cannot start?

 

[GTPorsche]

I guess he's out of luck if the FIA doesn't want to grant it to him.

 

[AnfLaw]

F1 Cluedo edition.

It was Nasr's race engineer, in the garage with a wrench.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I guess he's out of luck if the FIA doesn't want to grant it to him.

It takes two weeks to process the application. So how can van der Garde expect Sauber to field him when he doesn't have a licence?

And what's more, there are claims - which seem to be coming from Joe Saward - that van der Garde hasn't paid the money he owes the team for the seat.

 

[GTPorsche]

He's reportedly in debt, so I'm not sure how he could pay anything.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

He's reportedly in debt, so I'm not sure how he could pay anything.

Or how the court could rule in his favour. They recognise that van der Garde's original contract is valid - which outlines his obligations to the team as much as it does the team's obligations to him.

 

[IforceV8]

From this article of Saward's? https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2015/03/11/oh-what-a-tangled-web/

I see nothing about GVG not delivering the cash,only a reference to Russians

 

[VolkswagenX]

He's reportedly in debt, so I'm not sure how he could pay anything.

His sponsors paid for him? Did the courts rule in his favour because they like Giedo or does he actually have a case? You know? Maybe Sauber was actually wrong and Giedo is the victim?

 

[Soundtrack]

It seems he has a licence.

Edit: it seems he doesn't.

 

[IforceV8]

'[URL='https://twitter.com/GvanderGarde']@GvanderGarde lawyer requesting full list of @SauberF1Team's assets in Australia as a first step to potential sequestration[/URL]



Adam Cooper @adamcooperF1 · 4m 4 minutes ago


And Justice Croft agrees and asks @SauberF1Team to provide list of assets, ie the equipment that's here in the paddock

 

[mustafur]

I like how basically everyone is against him thinking he has no case and he has won all 3 appearances in court he has done.

Next time ladies and gentleman don't get your misguided opinions mixed with facts.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I like how basically everyone is against him thinking he has no case and he has won all 3 appearances in court he has done.

No, people are against him because he's an entitled little brat with an inflated sense of his self-worth.

 

[mustafur]

No, people are against him because he's an entitled little brat with an inflated sense of his self-worth.

End of the day, if he didn't believe in his abilities he wouldn't be in F1 in the first place.

Couch potato's don't understand.