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Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by GTPNewsWire, Sep 3, 2019.
Truly mature and well reasoned counter points being brought up in this thread.
Exactly if i don't like a game i don't complaining about it i play something else .
I might be misunderstanding you, but there aren't any championship style events (points system, grand credit prizes, etc.) in GT League. And performance parts, a major aspect of the series, are absent from the game. Or are you saying that GT5 didn't deviate much from its predecessors?
For me the current cars Gr.4 and Gr.3 are not a problem. But the Offline races are really disgusting, I am sincere if I write about having more battles on Gran Turismo 2 (1999) than on Gran Turismo SPORT (2017). I don't ask for cars, I don't ask for new tracks but only a damn event generator that allows you to Customize your Race, with Qualifications, Warm-Ups and even the possibility of choosing CPU opponents, from Garage or Brand Central! Imagine the life of this game as much as you can stretch in this way and the races you could get... Which is certainly better than chasing the usual Mégane Gr.4 and BMW M6 GT3.
I know these things aren’t in GTS, but I don’t think the campaign events in GT5 and GT6 were better despite having championships, part modifications and exclusive prizes. That’s what I tried to say.
I think the prime of Gran Turismo campaigns were in the PS1 and PS2 days. Back then it felt like there actually were well designed progression systems, which to me is the soul that has been missing from the campaigns in recent titles.
I see what you mean now.
I'll have a debate with you, but first, you need to make a more compelling argument about why PD need to start adding shiny new Gr cars into the already established, two year old Sport Mode with its very tricky BoP.
We need some Offline mode like GT4 campaign. But well this not will be happening in this game, maybe in GT7.
Wouldn’t it make more sense for PD to focus efforts on balancing out the BoP, something they’ve failed to do for 2 years now; or properly sort out classes like Gr1; instead of adding more eye candy to GrX that will only ever be used by a small fraction of the player base, and won’t be used in any capacity in Sport mode?
When it was released GT Sport had X amount of racing cars, a handful of tracks and the Sport mode as its online core. Now it has more racing cars, more tracks and the Sport mode as its online core. So as a matter of fact you're right - it's certainly not the same, the content has increased. Not sure how complaining about that is in any way productive though but whatever...
Not technically true - I've seen a decent amount of Sport Mode races (both daily races and championship races) that feature Gr.X cars as a one-make. They're not all the time, but they definitely do happen.
I think part of the problem is that PD adds so many road cars and then goes on to basically never use any of the N-classes outside some one-make events in Sport Mode, which is meant to be the headline feature. So we’re stuck with the same old race car lineup largely unchanged since launch, and a pool of hundred(s?) of new fresh road cars that can’t be used.
You know what you don’t usually see complaints about? Gr. B. Nothings been added to it, and it’s not used often, so it’s not really on peoples mind.
I think the lack of fresh race cars is a perfectly reasonable complaint; they’re the primary type of car being used, but aren’t being updated. There’s all these new road cars almost every month, but when do we get to race them with the other cars?
There’s a quick solution in there somewhere.
The solution would be to part Gr.X and Gr.1 properly, add half race cars, half road cars every update, improve the AI and penalty system, mix up Sport Mode with more variety and quantity, mix up GT League, add a real race track one month and an original (maybe classic) the next, and improve the physics.
Then almost everyone would be happy.
That's the one thing puzzling me. We have the Porsche Endurance rather than Gr.4 Endurance races. Makes no sense to have Gr.1, Gr.3 and then, no Gr.4.
Anyone else really excited to see the cornet not the charger?
Yeah, and it seems to be a Super Bee, too. There's no need to be such a buzzkill, at any rate. I mean, that sorta negativity really stings after a while.
They happen once in a blue moon. Any of the times it has happened as a one-make race, it’s basically been a one-off, hasn’t happened again since. There are more GrX cars that have never been used than there are that have been used.
Why does it make sense for PD to add cars that can only be used in a one-make once in a blue moon, instead of properly adjusting and filling out the most used classes in the game?
Idk. I'm leaning towards it being because of a plan we don't know about. I can't say I'm able to think too hard about it at this point.
But if you ask me, I think adjusting classes would be best if the cars were all provided with more specific limitations, like the late 90s/early 00s JDM cars or the FF Gr.4 cars that we saw in some prior daily races. That way, we could still have stuff like a Gr.1 race where it may be limited to the Group C cars. Similarly, I'd add the adjustment of power/weight as something that'd be prohibited when tuning is disabled. That'd likely put an end to "inter-class" cars, as one especially would see with the S-FR Racing Concept and X-Bow R.
(Though even when settings are enabled, I'd have it so that some parts of the tuning could be enabled, rather than only having the option to either allow all sections to be tuned, or none at all. So for example, you could have some events where only downforce can be adjusted, or certain parts of the suspension, or a combination of factors without all options being open to modification.)
Amen. GT is best at exhibiting the popular and obscure side-by-side. Whether this applies to cars, tracks, locales, and even the soundtrack selection.
Gr.4 is a mess. If it is a reflection of the real world GT4 category there should not be any FF cars in it. There should be a separate category for those. Perhaps Gr. TC?
Also, where are these cars?
KTM Xbow GT4
Audi R8 GT4
Maserati GT GT4
I mean, it's crazy! Most of these cars have a Street version in the game. How hard is it to model even a fictional version of each?
- Volkswagen Schwimmwagen Typ 166 '42
- Volkswagen Kubelwagen Typ 82 '44
- Hudson Mario Andretti's 1948 Hudson
- Mercedes-Benz 300SL Coupe '54
- BMW 507 '57
- Chevrolet Corvette Stingray Racer Concept '59
- Chevrolet El Camino SS 396 '67
- Chevrolet Nova SS '70
- Plymouth AAR Cuda 340 Six Barrel '70
- Ferrari 365 GTB4 '71
- Ayrton Senna West Surrey Racing, Ayrton Senna '83
- Audi Quattro S1 Rally Car '86
- Isuzu 4200R '89
Only 12 pre 1990 GT6 Premiums left. All the classic Ferraris have now been included in GT Sport.
I completely agree. The lack of car customization for Street cars looms large as failing by PD. They could have incorporated mileage point to this purpose. Using these points to upgrade to a "competition spec" version of said street car.
Because trying to shove in old Group C vehicles into Gr.1, a wholly 90's GT1 spec vehicle into a GT3 facsimile, and a literal one make race car into a GT4 facsimile isn't adding new, shiny vehicles into a tricky BOP situation?
The fact of the matter is that you're never going to ever get the perfect BOP, as there's always going to be one car that even after being BOP'd, still comes out above the rest. 'Tis the nature of the beast, and I seriously doubt that trying to add at least somewhat modern and interesting GT3 and 4 vehicles is going to bring the entire thing out of whack.
What *should* be done is something that has been screaming to be done since this game came out, and has become an even worse problem now: the fact that Polyphony places vehicles willy nilly. For the race cars at least, it would be advisable to look and ape off of Project Cars 2's class system, and how it categorizes vehicles. Group C vehicles are with Group C vehicles, one makes like Ferrari Challenge are in their own specific class, GT1 cars are in their own GT1 category, etc. Leave the VGT Gr.1's in their own category, alongside the Super Formulas in their own category so they aren't rotting away in Gr.X, put the vintage race cars in their own category, etc. Make Gr.1/3/4 about the classes that they are ostensibly about.
For road cars? Do away with the N class system to begin with. It was incredibly stupid to make a class system where torque or however the hell it's done is the only hard line in the sand between classes, and it's laughably bad now. A return to the PP system would probably be best, but I'll let others be the judge on that.
This is the crux of the argument. The fact of the matter is that for some vehicles, specifically the road cars and the vintage racing cars, is that they will *never* be used effectively because they have been thrown into the land of misfit toys known as Gr. X. Ditto for the Super Formulas. If you're going to be adding them, in a game that is ostensibly about online racing, then make them actually used more often then they are now. Because as it stands now, the Super Formulas especially, basically serve no point other then as a occasional palette cleanser in Daily races. They barely get used in GT League, and as stated, it is simply not feasible to expect them to be used in Arcade mode when pretty much everything in this game leads back to Sport mode.
It would be a quick fix for Polyphony to, I dunno, add some more weekly races then in Sport mode so that these two specific types of vehicles can be used. It is ludicrous to me that for a company so focused on bringing online racing to the forefront, that we basically have a weekly selection of three races, one guaranteed to be a N class race (usually one make) and one guaranteed to be a Gr.3/4 race. Why not add in another race or two where the Super Formulas, or vintage racers, can actually be used?
And the irony of it is that when there *are* modern and fresh race cars added, they're never used because they're sequestered into Group X. Again, it goes back to the above.
I'd certainly rather have my teeth pulled then deal with Gran Turismo's universally crap attempts at rally and off road driving, and I have a good bet that is a sentiment shared with others as well, so there's one reason why nobody complains about Group B's class structure and how it's used.
I have no issues with adding road cars. I just wish I had more "roads" to drive them on. Know what I mean? It's fine to take some of these on tracks, like Willow Springs. That track is designed for road cars. Same can be said for the Nordschleife; however, and this is just me, I'd love to be able to just take the 68 Camaro and just 'cruise' thru the streets of NY or something along those lines. Tokyo is nice, but I'd like some variety.
This is true. Isn't the GR 4 Huracan fake? And I suppose this falls into the category of "we need more real race cars" but the TT Cup isn't really a GT4 car. It's a car designed for a very specific race. If PD really wants a proper Audi GT4 capable car, it needs to add in the TCR RS3 car, but that's wishful thinking.
Lol, that wonderful plan that saw the removal of Shuffle Racing from the series for no reason, the temporary addition of moon missions, lumping contemporary LMP1s in the same category as 30 year old Group Cs. If the name of the plan is “flying by the seat of their pants”, then yes, I agree they have a solid long term plan
I agree with your about the car categories though, 100%. They’re a joke right now.
Your last sentence, that GT is good at exhibiting the popular next to the obscure. That’s kind of the problem...GT is basically just an exhibit. A museum, a virtual show room. The racing is one step on the sim side of Mario Kart, the physics are a bunch of overly simplified multipliers, the tuning is generic and completely unrealistic (D-Type Jaguars produce downforce? That’s a new one lol), the AI is garbage. In all categories except graphics, GT has been surpassed by all of the competition.
For something that supposed to be about Sport Mode, the game completely lacks direction...and as far as an “exhibit” or “museum”, it’s not functional, as even getting to take photos of some cars requires hundreds of hours of credit grinding.
If anything, this game illustrates how little planning has actually gone into the future directions of the GT franchise as a whole.
I've mentioned before that on one hand, Polyphony are way too eager to basically give the middle finger to classic fans of the series, especially with the lead up to the game's release and how they basically said 'either go with it, or get off' when people pointed out that the lack of a dedicated single player campaign was going to be a detriment (And the fact that they could have worked on both, instead of throwing out the baby with the bath water and focusing solely on online) but on the other, they are way too tentative in actually sticking to the game plan that they've now more or less committed to. (Now that the obvious has happened, that an online focus has more or less nerfed the ability for GT to move higher in the market place then where it is now, they're trying to patchwork a single player campaign that has all the problems people have been pointing out since GT5, and in a market where single player is much better at actually being worthwhile, said problems are beginning to be unacceptable)
So really, what does Polyphony want the game to be? Because the way they've tried to go about trying to please both sides isn't working - at all really.
Rofl that guy has been flocking to most threads about GTS updates since a week already and ranting about a lot of stuff usually with long, ridiculous posts.
I probably have a better ground to stand on with regards to my complaints then you do, somebody who doesn't even own the game. Besides, there are problems with how GT Sport is designed and works, there's been problems since the beginning, and they show no signs of being fixed. As such, I'll continue to point them out in the way that I do, and not in a reductive and frankly simple 'need more race cars, road/classic cars sux' format.
But, if you want to consider relatively level headed posts that lay out what the problems are to be 'long and ridiculous' then be my guest. Shows how much you know about the game, really.
This particular part of your reply sort of reminds me of when people seemed upset that GameFreak didn't bring back DexNav from Pokemon Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire, and they went on to explain that they mostly added DexNav into OR/AS because the game would've been a lot less fun without it - basically helping to patch up some faults in the game design. I'm wondering if Shuffle Racing could be similar, in that regard.
At any rate, I think that it's a bit of a tricky situation, where I can understand why PD wouldn't want to simply keep bringing back old features over and over again. I think instead, they should take a look at what people liked about that feature, and then bring in a spiritual successor that embodies an identical appeal while also evolving the original concept. In this case, said concept is "controlled, variable randomization," for lack of a better term, and it being applied to the cars used by a party of human players. But I digress.
Maybe that's also why they're going through these office & staff expansions. We should keep in mind that PD will have profoundly grown since GT6 and the next title, and that's before we factor in stuff like the use of outsourcing for modeling. These partnerships could also help subsidize the next game's budget, too, in addition to their offers of technical assistance, like we'll see with Michelin. I think also that the PS3 games struggled due to the hardware's infrastructure - at least in a notable part - whereas I've heard a lot of better things about what it's like to develop for the PS4.
At any rate, I'd love to offer some constructive suggestions for GT, myself. Hopefully I can network my way to somebody involved and just chat. It's not like I'm asking to be the design lead, haha.
They're still working on the BoP for the more mainstream race cars. If you're expecting a BoP that brings the old and new closer together though, you're in for a long wait as I've no idea how they can fix it other than track specific BoP's for each car. Bearing in mind that any physics or tyre changes will mean it will need redoing each time...
On the car adding and if memory serves me right, PD outsourced them to ease their workload. There's no doubt we'll see most, if not all of GTS's current future proofed cars in the next game but to moan about these gifted cars in a two year old game says more about the person doing the moaning than the people who actually release them.
I'm not a fan of GrX cars as race cars themselves but for someone who enjoys driving, the more the merrier as some are great to just jump in and drive. My Shelby Daytona and Honda Vision cars top of the list. I don't drive them all but still appreciate the option. The next game will likely see a reshuffle of cars into their rightful places.
My reply to twitcher works for you too.
Personally, I think you're both looking a gift horse in the mouth to see if it has gold teeth.
Not in front of my game right now, off the top of my head:
Gr3 - Mustang, Ford GT, Corvette, Jaguar, Peugeot, Citroen, Renault, Alfa Romeo...those are all fake cars. The only one that’s “real” is the Renault, but the real RS01 does not conform to any FIA or SRO GT3 specs.
Edit: Gr3 Supra, Beetle, Atenza, VW, WRX, and Lancer are all fantasy as well. Additionally, the McLaren F1 GTR and BMW M3 GT are from completely different eras, and would not be equally matched against contemporary GT3 machinery without serious BoP compensation.
As mentioned below, the Renault RS01 was actually converted to meet FIA GT3 regs at one point, after the one-make series it was designed for collapsed. It only saw GT3 action for a couple years, and only at the amateur level (don’t recall seeing one in any major race or series...I’m guessing it was run in something like ADAC GT3, or Euro GT Masters or something like that).
Almost all the Gr4 cars are fake. Some of them, eg Ford Mustang, have real life GT4 versions...but PD came up with their own fantasy versions of these cars for GTS as opposed to modelling the real GT4 versions (exact same as the Gr3 Corvette...that’s NOT a C7R, that’s PD fantasy). The only Gr4 car that I can think of that’s actually close to its real GT4 counterpart is the Cayman Clubsport. I might be mistaken by 1 or 2 of them, but like I said, pretty much all of Gr4 is PD fantasy. In real life, there is no such thing as a FWD or AWD GT4 car.
Edit: in Gr4, the Cayman is the only car actually labelled as GT4. The McLaren, Aston Martin, Mustang, and BMW are at least in the same ballpark as their real life GT4 equivalents. Everything else in Gr4 is pure fantasy.
The Renault Megane Trophy is a real car, but is used for a one-make series, and does in no way meet GT4 regs. Like I said, all GT4 cars are RWD. Coincidently, it also doesn’t meet any TCR regs.
Gr2 is the only category that’s remotely close to the real thing...and even there, PD has lumped very different generations of cars (with very different lap times) into the same category (and has thus far failed to capitalize on the new FIA TC1 regs will see Super GT and DTM have head to head races). Of all the weirdo race matchup fantasies that PD seems to try to create (they have a history of this, and it’s not completely random. I believe it’s remnant of a mindset in the 70s and 80s in Japanese racing that saw the likes of Porsche 962s competing in the same race as Lancia Group B rally cars. They tried some wild and crazy stuff back then. Guess what, it didn’t work so well, that’s why we don’t see it anymore), they could have been ahead of the curve by putting DTM and Super GT cars on the same track together. *Sigh*