The first GT game I & millions others will NEVER win a major race in.

[Jens Carr]

Rather than just post, I actually did some Racing! This race, finished about 25 mins ago is one of the best I’ve been in, so close, could have passed and wrecked then the last few corners, just wow. A distant 3rd but bumper to bumper throughout. Patience is key and winning is not important.

 

[Foofer37]

Rather than just post, I actually did some Racing! This race, finished about 25 mins ago is one of the best I’ve been in, so close, could have passed and wrecked then the last few corners, just wow. A distant 3rd but bumper to bumper throughout. Patience is key and winning is not important.

Glad YOU had a good race. Simply impossible for me. I get shunted constantly. NO ONE. NO ONE in this game and ALL OTHER SIMS know how to pass. They simply run you off and into the gravel and then drive by. EVERYONE does this. I don't. Therefore, I am left wrecked. Finish almost every race in last or have to quit because I've been penalized for being wrecked out by someone else! What a joke. Multiplayer is complete and utter *****. All Multiplayer games, no matter what or where it is, will be utter ***** and a complete waste of time. To ALL of YOU wreckers out there: You are complete garbage. Thanks for wrecking yet another game. But hey, what did I expect.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I want to know I got beat by the driver and not by the car.

The only way that you will see that is strictly in locked setting one make races.

All class racing has some cars are better than others and all cars have a base "TUNE" which is installed by a programmer at PD so by locking user adjustable tuning.

With locked tuning you are just being forced to race the car as someone else set it up rather than possibly making the car be the best it can for your driving style be within the rules as is allowed in all classes of real world racing.

 

[Dan Vincent]

The only way that you will see that is strictly in locked setting one make races.

All class racing has some cars are better than others and all cars have a base "TUNE" which is installed by a programmer at PD so by locking user adjustable tuning.

With locked tuning you are just being forced to race the car as someone else set it up rather than possibly making the car be the best it can for your driving style be within the rules as is allowed in all classes of real world racing.

The only way that you will see that is strictly in locked setting one make races.

All class racing has some cars are better than others and all cars have a base "TUNE" which is installed by a programmer at PD so by locking user adjustable tuning.

With locked tuning you are just being forced to race the car as someone else set it up rather than possibly making the car be the best it can for your driving style be within the rules as is allowed in all classes of real world racing.

Some of the best racing I’ve had was with GT6s shuffle racing! Majority of people don’t want to tune there cars for 30 minutes to a hour before they race..
Pretty sure most hear haven’t adjusted camber and caster in real life.

 

[Voodoovaj]

This comes back to what I was saying about having an Online GT League.

More races to choose from. More exclusivity to the rankings. More emphasis on the SR.

By being "inclusive" and allowing B ratings to be the essential bottom, it puts winning at a premium.

All competitive sports have more defined divisions to make sure play is fair for all players. My men's socer league has five divisions, and that's a small group of people. Teams need to suceed to move up. Why are people bumped up without realizing their goals?

Why no Sunday cups with small fields? An online version of GT League would be welcome by many.

 

[Spurgy 777]

The only way that you will see that is strictly in locked setting one make races.

All class racing has some cars are better than others and all cars have a base "TUNE" which is installed by a programmer at PD so by locking user adjustable tuning.

With locked tuning you are just being forced to race the car as someone else set it up rather than possibly making the car be the best it can for your driving style be within the rules as is allowed in all classes of real world racing.

Setups can gain you the best part of a second per lap depending on the car/track and all the cars are BoP'd based on a stock setup. So allowing tuning will in no way make the racing closer or make the races as driver skill dependent as possible and you will lose races to people who are slower than you simply because they've got a better setup car.

 

[shardlojik]

Generally the only time I get a win is when I have a bad run of DR (as I'm pretty slow) and end up right at the bottom of D somewhere. Like today at Dragon for example. Started 2nd, passed the leader when he ran wide on the first lap then managed to hang on for the win.

 

[meck_rb7]

This comes back to what I was saying about having an Online GT League.

More races to choose from. More exclusivity to the rankings. More emphasis on the SR.

By being "inclusive" and allowing B ratings to be the essential bottom, it puts winning at a premium.

All competitive sports have more defined divisions to make sure play is fair for all players. My men's socer league has five divisions, and that's a small group of people. Teams need to suceed to move up. Why are people bumped up without realizing their goals?

Why no Sunday cups with small fields? An online version of GT League would be welcome by many.

Devisions would be great. I'm middle DR.B, SR at 99. Sometimes when i get 0.200 sec. shaved of my time i'm really proud and hope for a better qualifying spot. But then i'm all of a sudden 2 or 3 placed back from where i was the last race. There should be a more fair system placing low B with low B, middle B with middle B etc. Then the races will be a lot more close, but also more chance to win, because "the alien" doens't take off to the horizon.

I love the game and i love a good fight middle pack, but i also would love a more frequent win. Got 7 wins out of 256 races. When i win it feels extra special now, but in general i don't win races from people who are 2 seconds a lap faster.

Looking at the tropy's for races won and pole position is never gonna haopen for me. It would mean if i keep playing at this rate it would cost me like 3 years to get me 91 wins...

Setups can gain you the best part of a second per lap depending on the car/track and all the cars are BoP'd based on a stock setup. So allowing tuning will in no way make the racing closer or make the races as driver skill dependent as possible and you will lose races to people who are slower than you simply because they've got a better setup car.

Part of a second per lap? When i got a custom setup on Dragon Trail i was like 2 seconds a lap faster.....

 

[Spurgy 777]

Part of a second per lap? When i got a custom setup on Dragon Trail i was like 2 seconds a lap faster.....

"Best part of" means most of, so pretty much a second per lap is what I meant, I haven't done a huge amount of tuning so that is mostly based on tuning Gr.4 FF cars and what I remember from the beta.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Majority of people don’t want to tune there cars for 30 minutes to a hour before they race..

That is the problem is people do not understand apparently that you can set up a tune you like for a track and then save that tune in yours cars set up sheet to be used at a later time as well.

It is not like that every time you race you have to spend a lot of time adjusting the car. Unless a major physics change or BoP changes once a car is set up for a track that tune will continue to work from now on.

People never seem to look at more than today rather than look at the big picture. Suspension tuning is a part of racing and should be part of racing in the game as well.

Pretty sure most hear haven’t adjusted camber and caster in real life

If your excuse is many do not know how or understand how to tune even this forum has a section where people gladly develop and share tunes for many cars and circuits within the game that offer much better performance and drive ability for cars over the base PD set up which for some cars is atrocious at best.

They even walk you through step by step on how to apply the tune and you are looking at about 5 minutes of your time to very possibly make your favorite car not only faster but more importantly a joy and pleasure to drive allowing better stability and consistency over the base tune applied by PD.

So really whether someone understands how a change to the suspension settings affects the vehicle in real life there are people that do it for you so lack of knowledge should not keep such an important aspect of a racing game under lock and key.

Setups can gain you the best part of a second per lap depending on the car/track and all the cars are BoP'd based on a stock setup. So allowing tuning will in no way make the racing closer or make the races as driver skill dependent as possible and you will lose races to people who are slower than you simply because they've got a better setup car.

I understand that and am totally okay with allowing tuning, at least in some of the online races. Locking it out of all races is just dumbing the game down and not allowing a racer to make his car the best as it can be which is a big part of racing.

 

[meck_rb7]

"Best part of" means most of, so pretty much a second per lap is what I meant, I haven't done a huge amount of tuning so that is mostly based on tuning Gr.4 FF cars and what I remember from the beta.

Ok i get you.. i think it depents on what you ajust. Some cars will get alot better... some just a litte better i guess..

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Some cars will get alot better... some just a litte better i guess..

Improvement amounts can be a result of how close the PD base tune was to being optimal for a particular car and track. All cars will not gain the same from user tunes as some base tunes are better than others.

 

[Spurgy 777]

I understand that and am totally okay with allowing tuning, at least in some of the online races. Locking it out of all races is just dumbing the game down and not allowing a racer to make his car the best as it can be which is a big part of racing.

It's not dumbing down the game it's putting an emphasis on driver skill which is what Sport Mode is about. As soon as you allow tuning in any of the Sport Mode races it would allow drivers to artificially increase their rating just because they know where to find good setups, as well as reducing the already fairly limited choice of races each day.

Ok i get you.. i think it depents on what you ajust. Some cars will get alot better... some just a litte better i guess..

Not only will it vary depending on the car/track and the quality of the setup but it will also depend on the driver as well.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

It's not dumbing down the game it's putting an emphasis on driver skill which is what Sport Mode is about.

I wish that you could clarify how excluding user tuning is putting an emphasis on driver skill in mixed make races. Or are you referring to the driver skills in choosing the GTR as being the dominate car when the game first released, or maybe the driver skill in choosing the Beetle or the Megane when they were the OP vehicles in their respected classes.

The only way you are focusing on strictly driver skill is in ONE MAKE TUNING LOCKED RACES ONLY. Otherwise it is still just as much about which car is better at the time on which track so allowing tuning does not change that different drivers have an advantage by the car they choose for the race over what a different driver may choose.

Trying to say it is all about driver skill emphasis in mixed make races for having tuning options locked has got to be one of the most pitiful excuses being used as justification for locking a key part of a racing game for competitive use.

Now perhaps that same argument in a one make race may hold some water but that is not what we are talking about here.

 

[Spurgy 777]

I wish that you could clarify how excluding user tuning is putting an emphasis on driver skill in mixed make races. Or are you referring to the driver skills in choosing the GTR as being the dominate car when the game first released, or maybe the driver skill in choosing the Beetle or the Megane when they were the OP vehicles in their respected classes.

The only way you are focusing on strictly driver skill is in ONE MAKE TUNING LOCKED RACES ONLY. Otherwise it is still just as much about which car is better at the time on which track so allowing tuning does not change that different drivers have an advantage by the car they choose for the race over what a different driver may choose.

Trying to say it is all about driver skill emphasis in mixed make races for having tuning options locked has got to be one of the most pitiful excuses being used as justification for locking a key part of a racing game for competitive use.

Now perhaps that same argument in a one make race may hold some water but that is not what we are talking about here.

One make races would technically be best if you wanted to remove all other factors other than driver skill in determining DR, but to remotely try and equate the effect tuning and mixed make races has on reducing the emphasis on driver skill is complete nonsense.

The difference is having a mixed make race with a BoP in place has a negligible effect on reducing the emphasis on driver skill, especially as BoP is improved, and as you pointed out is an effect you can choose to negate just by looking at the top 10 times and picking the fastest car. Tuning on the other hand has a huge impact on reducing the emphasis on driver skill and it's not something you can just wish away at the click of a button, if you don't know how to tune or where to find one (as a lot of people won't) then tough luck! You could easily lose a second a lap through absolutely no fault of your driving ability and it would make a complete mockery of the driver rating system if you could increase your ranking just by knowing where to find good setups. It's a driver rating that should reward driving, not setups.

At the end of the day the only reason to want tuning in sport mode is so that you can have an advantage over everyone else to compensate for driving ability. That is literally the only purpose of setting up your car so that you can make it faster than everyone else's, you want an OP car and what's worse is you want one that no one else can have unless they happen to know they right combination of numbers to put in the settings.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

One make races would technically be best if you wanted to remove all other factors other than driver skill in determining DR, but to remotely try and equate the effect tuning and mixed make races has on reducing the emphasis on driver skill is complete nonsense.

The difference is having a mixed make race with a BoP in place has a negligible effect on reducing the emphasis on driver skill, especially as BoP is improved, and as you pointed out is an effect you can choose to negate just by looking at the top 10 times and picking the fastest car. Tuning on the other hand has a huge impact on reducing the emphasis on driver skill and it's not something you can just wish away at the click of a button, if you don't know how to tune or where to find one (as a lot of people won't) then tough luck! You could easily lose a second a lap through absolutely no fault of your driving ability and it would make a complete mockery of the driver rating system if you could increase your ranking just by knowing where to find good setups. It's a driver rating that should reward driving, not setups.

At the end of the day the only reason to want tuning in sport mode is so that you can have an advantage over everyone else to compensate for driving ability. That is literally the only purpose of setting up your car so that you can make it faster than everyone else's, you want an OP car and what's worse is you want one that no one else can have unless they happen to know they right combination of numbers to put in the settings.

You sure do wear blinders when you try to justify "driver skill" as you put it to be the primary focus for not allowing tuning.

Every variable in the game can add or detract from a drivers performance thus changing the percentage the actual driver makes in the results.

In order for drivers skill to actually be the deciding factor within a race then ALL VARIABLES need to be eliminated.

Any allowances that are different between drivers such as what driver aids they may or may not employ for instance changes what could be influencing the results besides the actual skill of the driver.

If you want driver skill to be the determining factor then totally locking every variable from type of control input method allowed to no driver aids and one make races then you will find out which drivers have the most skill with that control input and on that track with that car and nothing more. Change tracks, cars or control inputs or driving aids allowed then your results may very well be different among the same drivers.

How many times have you heard the debate whether or not a wheel offers an advantage over a controller or the other way around?

It is a variable that can offer different results in different drivers hands so how do you fairly say that the winner of the race was one driver was better than the other or was it the controller or the wheel difference that actually was the deciding factor.

Think about it for a while and maybe you will realize how your argument is not reasonable to be against tuning a suspension in a race.

Sounds like apparently you do not have much experience in setting up a cars suspension to remain competitive with other racers that who rather than look at the leader boards and choose the car to race that is the flavor of the week to try to be competitive would rather tweak and adjust the car the ACTUALLY ENJOY DRIVING and make it competitive against the flavor of the week car rather than just be a bandwagon driver or automatically running at the back of the grid.

Just because a car has a user adjusted suspension does not in any way guarantee that car is going to be the fastest car on the track. Sometimes a tune may give up one thing to gain another such as remove a bad handling trait which makes the car more consistent not always outright faster.

Your argument on the driver skill without controlling every variable though is still a joke. If not allowing tuning is is only allowing driver skill to be exhibited in all of your online races make sure to pick the slowest car within the class and race that to show superior driver skills.

After all according to you it is driver skill as it is now and the car without suspension tuning regardless of the car is okay as is with the base tune from PD.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Sounds like a lot of people who can't actually look into a mirror say "I suck at this game right now" and then try to actually improve themselves. Rather they want to shift blame and claim, that there are various elements holding them back. Which as long as I've been playing esport games across the board has been a mainstay argument. And not a valid one, just one to make said person feel better about how bad they refuse to realize they are.

 

[ghsnu]

Setups can gain you the best part of a second per lap depending on the car/track and all the cars are BoP'd based on a stock setup. So allowing tuning will in no way make the racing closer or make the races as driver skill dependent as possible and you will lose races to people who are slower than you simply because they've got a better setup car.

I can see what you're aiming at, and in theory I agree. With a proper BOP (none of this Megane BS), people can adjust cars to how they WANT them to handle, which is also a reason why some cars are probably not used. One example for me is the GT3/gr3 Hurican - way to twitchy and oversteer-y for my liking. If I could tune it to negate that, that would be fantastic and would open up more car choices for me as most MR cars are tuned to be too twitchy (4C gr4 too, fantastic turn in, but still wants to run itself into the wall).

Unfortunately, looking at Forza, there's always the possibility of leaderboard setups that take advantage of the game's physics flaws (GT5/6 I think with the ride height?) or are just the best and thus will be used by the majority of players - which I think is what PD is trying to not deal with ATM.

 

[Scaff]

Majority of people don’t want to tune there cars for 30 minutes to a hour before they race..

Now aside from neither of us having numbers to back that up, it's clear that some most certainly do want to.

I see no reason why PD can't at the very least trial a mix of events that allow and ban tuning. That way they would know for sure.

I do however see most of the grid settings g qualifying times, so they are at the very least happy to spend a certain amount of time before a race getting ready for it.

Pretty sure most hear haven’t adjusted camber and caster in real life.

Pretty sure most here haven't raced a car on track either, so that's not really a strong argument for not allowing it.

 

[kjeldsen]

Spring Cleaning

 

[Codemastersk]

I understand the meaning behind the topic, but it can sound whiny and already see people teling to "git gud".

What I think it means is that it lacks the sense of progression of every GT and racing games fot that matter and people can be bored easily with games that make the person feeling stuck for too long, without any sense of some accomplishment that any good videogame does. People who complaint about backtracking in games is because of this: you feel like you're not getting anywhere.

Many games that are focused on online basically maintain their audience because of people who they know to play together, if your friends start to bail out the game, you quit too because it lacks meaning to try "to be the best" knowing that it wont happen.

 

[1MSC]

Now aside from neither of us having numbers to back that up, it's clear that some most certainly do want to.

I see no reason why PD can't at the very least trial a mix of events that allow and ban tuning. That way they would know for sure.

I do however see most of the grid settings g qualifying times, so they are at the very least happy to spend a certain amount of time before a race getting ready for it.



Pretty sure most here haven't raced a car on track either, so that's not really a strong argument for not allowing it.

Maybe they should try add the tuning features to the C race? Is it possible to tune in the FIA races? ( I dont know because I can never race at nights ) Altough its really hard to make a custom set-up work if you are not really in to it and have some IRL track experience.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Again, the problem is not enough content.

The called the game "Sport" but the "Sport Mode" is too sparse. It's fine to have no tuning in the dailies and in the FIA races. HOWEVER, There needs to be racing where tuning is allowed as well. There needs to be street car racing. There needs to be Cup racing. There needs to be Gr1 racing. There needs to be rally racing.

Right now, we have a bunch of cars, a bunch of features, and a bunch of events, and these three things only superficially come together.

 

[Jens Carr]

despite what I said about getting S safety there is always a bad race. Just had one where I started 3rd, shunted first corner to last, fought back to 8th then shunted 3 more times. Just coasted to 13th as no point racing the losers on that race. Just move on to another race and start again. Main problem is that a lot of people are selfish wankers, who don’t know how to race LOL!

 

[graveltrap]

Again, the problem is not enough content.

The called the game "Sport" but the "Sport Mode" is too sparse. It's fine to have no tuning in the dailies and in the FIA races. HOWEVER, There needs to be racing where tuning is allowed as well. There needs to be street car racing. There needs to be Cup racing. There needs to be Gr1 racing. There needs to be rally racing.

Right now, we have a bunch of cars, a bunch of features, and a bunch of events, and these three things only superficially come together.

It is a double edged sword...

The biggest problem they have with adding more content is that it makes the player pool smaller for each event, thus making match making even more problematic but on the other hand, it may draw many of those that haven't been engaged by sport mode into that part of the game!

Sport mode as it currently stands does not interest me much at all though.

 

[Voodoovaj]

It is a double edged sword...

The biggest problem they have with adding more content is that it makes the player pool smaller for each event, thus making match making even more problematic but on the other hand, it may draw many of those that haven't been engaged by sport mode into that part of the game!

Sport mode as it currently stands does not interest me much at all though.

Any way that you slice it, I would rather have a more competitive 10 driver race than repetitive 20 driver races.

I would rather an 8 man Sunday cup race than ANY one make at Tokyo.

Matchmaking has been poorly executed. They are intentionally trying to replicate the single player. They have this Hot-Shoe/Average Joe/Canon Fodder scheme and you, as a player, never know when you are going to be in the canon fodder group (not fun for you) or the Hot Shoe group (not fun for anyone else).

Sure, it's disguised somewhat because of the qualifying, but it's still there.

Why, for instance, should a guy like me who is in the low A have to race guys who are world class? Shouldn't I be in the same room as others that are the same skill level? Isn't that what we all expected from matchmaking?

And don't get me started on penalties - today I had two client calls that I had to take while I was on my break. I quite 2 races....2....I dropped from a DR of 35661 to 28000!!! I went form an A to a B because I quit two races?? Take my SR away, because I will earn that back, but to take 8000 DR!!! That's going to take a bunch of work to earn back!

What about someone who is more casual? Holy, that kind of a hit can make someone stop playing altogether!

GT SPORT should not just be about three random daily races and two bonuses. There needs to be something for everyone and this isn't it!


BTW, I'm not upset at you specifically @graveltrap I'm upset because all I hear is how more online content is a problem, but it isn't a problem. That would be like saying adding more battle maps top Battlefield is a problem. It isn't. It's more content for those who want to play it, plain and simple.


Oh, and there would be no question about players numbers if they didn't segrgate us. A connection from Toronto to Buenos Ares is not much different than Toronto to Paris.

 

[graveltrap]

Any way that you slice it, I would rather have a more competitive 10 driver race than repetitive 20 driver races.

I would rather an 8 man Sunday cup race than ANY one make at Tokyo.

Matchmaking has been poorly executed. They are intentionally trying to replicate the single player. They have this Hot-Shoe/Average Joe/Canon Fodder scheme and you, as a player, never know when you are going to be in the canon fodder group (not fun for you) or the Hot Shoe group (not fun for anyone else).

Sure, it's disguised somewhat because of the qualifying, but it's still there.

Why, for instance, should a guy like me who is in the low A have to race guys who are world class? Shouldn't I be in the same room as others that are the same skill level? Isn't that what we all expected from matchmaking?

And don't get me started on penalties - today I had two client calls that I had to take while I was on my break. I quite 2 races....2....I dropped from a DR of 35661 to 28000!!! I went form an A to a B because I quit two races?? Take my SR away, because I will earn that back, but to take 8000 DR!!! That's going to take a bunch of work to earn back!

What about someone who is more casual? Holy, that kind of a hit can make someone stop playing altogether!

GT SPORT should not just be about three random daily races and two bonuses. There needs to be something for everyone and this isn't it!


BTW, I'm not upset at you specifically @graveltrap I'm upset because all I hear is how more online content is a problem, but it isn't a problem. That would be like saying adding more battle maps top Battlefield is a problem. It isn't. It's more content for those who want to play it, plain and simple.


Oh, and there would be no question about players numbers if they didn't segrgate us. A connection from Toronto to Buenos Ares is not much different than Toronto to Paris.

First NP!

If the game can't find you a good match with 3 races to choose from, how is it going to manage when there are 10 or 20? There are simply not enough players around in sport mode at your skill level to offer a decent match, even less for those that are at the top of the tree, that is why you get put in the same race as them.

Matchmaking seemed determined to fill a room (from the few races I have done) as well which isn't helping with the mismatching either. So first and foremost the way the game matches players needs to be changed.

If the data that people seem to have access is to be believed less than half the players that have bought the game have bothered to watch the racing etiquette videos, out of those players that have watched the videos very few have gone on to do more than 10 races. If that data is correct then sport mode is a huge failure.

But, I think you are right and the game does need to offer more variety in sport mode, hopefully that would motivate more people to race in it (like me for example).

If it did bring something like a Clubman or Sunday cup, it needs to restricted entry to say DR D drivers and below, take it to the next level for a NA Challenge and restrict entry to only DR C, GT Allstars could be only for DR S rated drivers.

The game has huge potential, we shall see what PD do with it....