The first GT game I & millions others will NEVER win a major race in.

[Johnnypenso]

Racing isn't about winning necessarily.

I can name every Stanley Cup or F1 Champion in order but I can't name all the runner's up let alone the rest of the order. Racing is mostly about winning, but to get the most of a game like this that features a form of parity racing, you have to enjoy the battle more than winning or it's not going to hold your interest for long. Not everyone is wired that way. I've won more than my share of races over the years and now I seek only the thrill of the fair fight, with victory a nice bonus but not a requirement for enjoyment. Not everyone feels the same way, and with only a 1/24 chance of winning in a full lobby, some people will lose interest in online racing pretty quickly, if they ever make it there that is.

 

[JoaoSilva]

Not everyone feels the same way

Exactly , you might like to win , others are in it for the experience. If players need to win to feel proud of themselves , good for them.

 

[Sloppy Shades]

You got that wrong. I have several friends that play FPS games like COD and Battlefield, they NEVER touch the single player. They only play online. Some suck, some do good. They still «play to win». They’re having fun no matter what rank they get. Or how their K/D looks.

You mentioned 2 huge MP games that actually have had the single player part just tacked on for appearances back when you couldnt JUST release an MP game. Battlefield in particular has been criticized for its short 'career' mode. I've been playing FPS games since Doom in 1993, I sadly saw it decline as the MP portions of the game had masses more invested than the story parts. I am writing form the view I dont want racing games to go the same way. So every game is just an arena to throw people into.
Multiplayer will be the death of imagination in gaming.

 

[MisterWaffles]

Part of the draw of this game will be people constantly coming back to finally win for once. In a real sport, a true athlete doesn't give up after they loose a few times, they keep training and improving until they can best their opponent fairly, hence the name Gran Turismo Sport.

 

[JoaoSilva]

In a real sport, a true athlete doesn't give up after they loose a few times

Exactly , things aren't given to you on a silver platter.

 

[Sloppy Shades]

Seem to be a lot of people taking my post as some kind of whine that I am not winning enough personally. Reading it throughout, word for word, its apparent I set my own goals and take great joy in beating them. NONE of this post is about me but a rallying cry against the trend of modern gaming to be at the beck and call of the 9-13yo demographic. Dumbing down of everything to 5 minute sessions. Notice NONE of the Sport daily races were longer than ten minutes in length? Geesh not even a half hour one.
Tuning? Nah
Vintage/Used Cars? nah
For people who dont have time to read my whole post I am also fine with never 'winning' online. To get a personal best, to pass a few people, to feel I'm good enough to 'belong' in the middle of the pack. All these things are great. I am ONLY talking about the Gran Turismo experience and my worries for its future. People like 'us' who respect the better racers, accept we dont have to actually 'win' to have fun and enjoy the camaraderie of like-minded mature NON-confrontational yet competitive players. How many is that? Say 1000 in the whole world? GT needs to sell millions AND keep them all happy. Will GT7 have its budget cut if Sport has poor sales figures? I hope not. THAT is what this whole discussion is about for me. I am playing Devils advocate and thinking of its appeal to 'the masses'.

 

[syntex123]

You mentioned 2 huge MP games that actually have had the single player part just tacked on for appearances back when you couldnt JUST release an MP game. Battlefield in particular has been criticized for its short 'career' mode. I've been playing FPS games since Doom in 1993, I sadly saw it decline as the MP portions of the game had masses more invested than the story parts. I am writing form the view I dont want racing games to go the same way. So every game is just an arena to throw people into.
Multiplayer will be the death of imagination in gaming.

A sandbox game would work fine though, where you are in full control what you want to do offline. Sandbox + multiplayer = win win

Edit: And also - why are you still talking about GT7? There won’t be a GT7.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Part of the draw of this game will be people constantly coming back to finally win for once. In a real sport, a true athlete doesn't give up after they loose a few times, they keep training and improving until they can best their opponent fairly, hence the name Gran Turismo Sport.

This isn't a "real sport" for anyone but a tiny, tiny minority of elite players. For the vast majority of us I suspect this is just another game. Some of you guys are forgetting that this series was built upon a career mode that let you crash and bash your way to victory with impunity in hundreds of races if you wanted to and many did. Changing that mindset isn't easy.

 

[MisterWaffles]

This isn't a "real sport" for anyone but a tiny, tiny minority of elite players. For the vast majority of us I suspect this is just another game. Some of you guys are forgetting that this series was built upon a career mode that let you crash and bash your way to victory with impunity in hundreds of races if you wanted to and many did. Changing that mindset isn't easy.

I respect that opinion, but I think you forgot two important quotes:

"They dismissed us as armchair racers and said our game wasn't a sport."

"Burn it to the ground."

The game may be built on the foundation, but it's clear they want nothing to do with that anymore. That's why the fan base is so divided. They want people everywhere to finally accept this as a sport, change everyone's mindset.

 

[Sloppy Shades]

Part of the draw of this game will be people constantly coming back to finally win for once. In a real sport, a true athlete doesn't give up after they loose a few times, they keep training and improving until they can best their opponent fairly, hence the name Gran Turismo Sport.

I'm not talking about giving up easily. I'm talking about IMPOSSIBLE. I spent 3 whole weeks redoing Mission 34 (US version) back in the day over and over some 200 times until I finally achieved it and the 100%. It was a goal that was measurable. The cars all drove the same way at the same speed. It was up to ME to get better and learn everything. I have raced 28 daily races in GT sport, 2 i started 5/6 1 at 18 every other one 20 or below. My times are not gonna drop 5-10 seconds a lap unless I give up working and play full time. Probably not then I'm in my fifties and not getting faster!
It seems the better I get in this game the harder the opposition. There is never a period like in REAL LIFE when everyone rises up in their own small leagues, becomes the best or needs better opposition then advances on to higher leagues until either the top or they find their level. They can always drop back down too if their ego lets them. ONCE you get to be in the top 100 racers then sure its pot luck whether you start 1 or 24..until then you start 20 or less.
Remember the Sunday Cup? Some people NEEDED that to gain confidence. I did too when I started out. The opposition stays the SAME while YOU improve. THAT is what gives the incentive to improve. This is basic human incentive psychology. You need relativity to measure your progress. I know I was getting better in Sport each race even though my positions stayed the same. A lot of people are going to give up.

A sandbox game would work fine though, where you are in full control what you want to do offline. Sandbox + multiplayer = win win

Edit: And also - why are you still talking about GT7? There won’t be a GT7.

That's news to me. Very sad news. The only reason I played Sport at all was to see how the driving was coming on for a future release. Too stunned to comment any more. I deleted the game as soon as the trial was up. It won't be back, especially now it killed off it's smarter, bigger brother.

 

[syntex123]

That's news to me. Very sad news. The only reason I played Sport at all was to see how the driving was coming on for a future release. Too stunned to comment any more. I delete the game as soon as the trial was up. It won't be back, especially now it killed off it's smarter, bigger brother.

I take it you haven’t read much GT news the past two years?

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I'm not talking about giving up easily. I'm talking about IMPOSSIBLE. I spent 3 whole weeks redoing Mission 34 (US version) back in the day over and over some 200 times until I finally achieved it and the 100%. It was a goal that was measurable. The cars all drove the same way at the same speed. It was up to ME to get better and learn everything. I have raced 28 daily races in GT sport, 2 i started 5/6 1 at 18 every other one 20 or below. My times are not gonna drop 5-10 seconds a lap unless I give up working and play full time. Probably not then I'm in my fifties and not getting faster!
It seems the better I get in this game the harder the opposition. There is never a period like in REAL LIFE when everyone rises up in their own small leagues, becomes the best or needs better opposition then advances on to higher leagues until either the top or they find their level. They can always drop back down too if their ego lets them. ONCE you get to be in the top 100 racers then sure its pot luck whether you start 1 or 24..until then you start 20 or less.
Remember the Sunday Cup? Some people NEEDED that to gain confidence. I did too when I started out. The opposition stays the SAME while YOU improve. THAT is what gives the incentive to improve. This is basic human incentive psychology. You need relativity to measure your progress. I know I was getting better in Sport each race even though my positions stayed the same. A lot of people are going to give up.

Just from the demo there is a lot to do offline, custom races from 2 laps to 24 hours in length, you pick the number of AI competition cars and the class of cars they are driving, you also pick their level up to pro drivers. You can do tire wear, fuel consumption on or off, damage light or heavy on or off, driving penalties on or off and that is just one section of offline.

A lot to do not counting missions, license test, track knowledge and on and on!

 

[UnkaD]

I lost drive to play GT5 and GT6 after completing all of the offline stuff, which there wasn't much of in the first place. I could never find a place online where I fit and couldn't rely on specific times to play with a dedicated group. The sport mode of this game cures that 100%. I don't care about winning. What I care about is honest racing with players of relative pace to mine, and I feel I get that from my experience with the beta and this demo. I have a blast racing hard and clean, whether it be for 1st or 12th or even 19th. It's the experience, not the result.

 

[Chris Notes]

I'm not talking about giving up easily. I'm talking about IMPOSSIBLE. I spent 3 whole weeks redoing Mission 34 (US version) back in the day over and over some 200 times until I finally achieved it and the 100%. It was a goal that was measurable. The cars all drove the same way at the same speed. It was up to ME to get better and learn everything. I have raced 28 daily races in GT sport, 2 i started 5/6 1 at 18 every other one 20 or below. My times are not gonna drop 5-10 seconds a lap unless I give up working and play full time. Probably not then I'm in my fifties and not getting faster!
It seems the better I get in this game the harder the opposition. There is never a period like in REAL LIFE when everyone rises up in their own small leagues, becomes the best or needs better opposition then advances on to higher leagues until either the top or they find their level. They can always drop back down too if their ego lets them. ONCE you get to be in the top 100 racers then sure its pot luck whether you start 1 or 24..until then you start 20 or less.
Remember the Sunday Cup? Some people NEEDED that to gain confidence. I did too when I started out. The opposition stays the SAME while YOU improve. THAT is what gives the incentive to improve. This is basic human incentive psychology. You need relativity to measure your progress. I know I was getting better in Sport each race even though my positions stayed the same. A lot of people are going to give up.

What's up man? I have a tip for you. So I'm a dad. I work full time and still try to have a life. With that being said I don't have much time to race maybe a couple hours every couple days. However. I'm still doing pretty well consistent top 5 and a couple wins. Even a poll position and a fastest lap time achieved. But this may help you... What I did on my first couple races was watched the replay of the race and put the camera on the guy who won. Then mimicked his driving line and tried to do it like he did. The cars with BoP are all the same. So it's all about the line you drive. Speed out of the corner is huge aspect to fast times. So check the lines the top racers are doing and I bet you WILL drop 5-10 seconds a race. Keep at it man if you put in the work it will happen

 

[Sloppy Shades]

Just from the demo there is a lot to do offline, custom races from 2 laps to 24 hours in length, you pick the number of AI competition cars and the class of cars they are driving, you also pick their level up to pro drivers. You can do tire wear, fuel consumption on or off, damage light or heavy on or off, driving penalties on or off and that is just one section of offline.

A lot to do not counting missions, license test, track knowledge and on and on!

I know but WHICH one unlocks the 1965 Ferrari? Which 6 race series do I need to get most championship points in to get the GT40 advance to the World Championships? How much money do I need to save up to buy all the upgrades plus race body for my Honda Accord?

I take it you haven’t read much GT news the past two years?

I havent, you will find a bunch of Project Cars posts from me a year or so ago then nada. Personal tragedy intervened then got heavily back into flight simming. Admittedly no career mode in that but so much to concentrate on to keep my mind from wandering. GT used to do that for me too..hence my excitement when a friend told me it was coming out.

 

[RockyProndoa]

I'm not talking about giving up easily. I'm talking about IMPOSSIBLE. I spent 3 whole weeks redoing Mission 34 (US version) back in the day over and over some 200 times until I finally achieved it and the 100%. It was a goal that was measurable. The cars all drove the same way at the same speed. It was up to ME to get better and learn everything. I have raced 28 daily races in GT sport, 2 i started 5/6 1 at 18 every other one 20 or below. My times are not gonna drop 5-10 seconds a lap unless I give up working and play full time. Probably not then I'm in my fifties and not getting faster!
It seems the better I get in this game the harder the opposition. There is never a period like in REAL LIFE when everyone rises up in their own small leagues, becomes the best or needs better opposition then advances on to higher leagues until either the top or they find their level. They can always drop back down too if their ego lets them. ONCE you get to be in the top 100 racers then sure its pot luck whether you start 1 or 24..until then you start 20 or less.
Remember the Sunday Cup? Some people NEEDED that to gain confidence. I did too when I started out. The opposition stays the SAME while YOU improve. THAT is what gives the incentive to improve. This is basic human incentive psychology. You need relativity to measure your progress. I know I was getting better in Sport each race even though my positions stayed the same. A lot of people are going to give up.

I agree with this, however, I don't think you are giving it enough of a chance. During my play with the beta, my highest finished was around 8 or 9, which i felt was pretty respectable considering i was using a controller and hadn't touched a racing game in over a year. My BIGGER gripe however, was not the speed of the other players, but their incessant need to knock me off the road. I won't mention specifics, but there did seem to be a certain demographic that was highly prone to this style of racing. The point to this is that my SR went from a B to a D - all because I kept getting slammed into from behind and pushed off the road.

I, personally, would rather finish dead last every race than spend half the race in the dirt and up against the wall. I have to believe (and hope) that once this game actually releases and there is a month or two of racing going on, these sort of things will 'weed' themselves out, and you will have an opportunity to win. As others have stated, winning isn't everything, and giving up after a 4-day demo seems to really be jumping the gun.

 

[Sloppy Shades]

What's up man? I have a tip for you. So I'm a dad. I work full time and still try to have a life. With that being said I don't have much time to race maybe a couple hours every couple days. However. I'm still doing pretty well consistent top 5 and a couple wins. Even a poll position and a fastest lap time achieved. But this may help you... What I did on my first couple races was watched the replay of the race and put the camera on the guy who won. Then mimicked his driving line and tried to do it like he did. The cars with BoP are all the same. So it's all about the line you drive. Speed out of the corner is huge aspect to fast times. So check the lines the top racers are doing and I bet you WILL drop 5-10 seconds a race. Keep at it man if you put in the work it will happen

I can respect that tip. Didn't know you could do that. Used to do same thing to get gold on the licenses years back. But....my post is not about me at all...but others who would give up. Except I've given up now as trial is over and Im not paying $60 for any game without a GT40 in it. Or an FTO. When its $15 next summer sale maybe. I'm waiting for PC2 to fix its career mode. Then I will jump on that. Which will be MUCH harder to conquer..except I can turn the ai difficulty UP and aggression DOWN and be in non-shunting heaven. I dont take shocks well these days unless they are from my own mistakes.

I agree with this, however, I don't think you are giving it enough of a chance. During my play with the beta, my highest finished was around 8 or 9, which i felt was pretty respectable considering i was using a controller and hadn't touched a racing game in over a year. My BIGGER gripe however, was not the speed of the other players, but their incessant need to knock me off the road. I won't mention specifics, but there did seem to be a certain demographic that was highly prone to this style of racing. The point to this is that my SR went from a B to a D - all because I kept getting slammed into from behind and pushed off the road.

I, personally, would rather finish dead last every race than spend half the race in the dirt and up against the wall. I have to believe (and hope) that once this game actually releases and there is a month or two of racing going on, these sort of things will 'weed' themselves out, and you will have an opportunity to win. As others have stated, winning isn't everything, and giving up after a 4-day demo seems to really be jumping the gun.

me too I wrote I sighed relief when I started 24th! I could get my rating up to S without being sabotaged. I didnt give up after a 4 day demo. I played some 24 hours/28 races over a 4 day period up until the very last moment when the server kicked me off. Then I deleted the game as every race out of last 10 I'd been the slowest racer. If just ONE I'd been even half way in the pack I'd have pre-ordered. I posted somewhere else after a days play and someone told me dont give up give it a few more races, I gave it 25 more races. I had some fun in them too once I figured out my goal was to increase my SR rating and it was ACHIEVABLE bu personal strategy. I even made a friend from someone who apologized for bumping me off the track by mistake. Give me some dang vintage cars I WANT to drive and not all this space age stuff and I'm back in there. It's the fact that NOTHING I loved about the GT series in in this game. Except the arcadiness...which I never had a problem with who likes spinning out 10 times a lap?

You know what? STUFF the career. Give me all my vintage cars back and some parts to buy, TWELVE Sport races an hour where you can enter IF your DR is in the agreed race category. E drivers only. B+ drivers only etc etc. Any comers also is fine for a couple.
Make the penalty to SR work that you need to BADS in a row to drop your SR IF the last 2 changes were UP and vice versa. That way a driver who is obviously TRENDING towards being a saint wont get a SR hit from just one shunt in the rear. He can get back on track and get another SR plus then hes safe. But the guy who keeps shunting others will see his SR punted down faster as he WONT be able to get back onto pluses unless he does 2 in a row.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

What's up man? I have a tip for you. So I'm a dad. I work full time and still try to have a life. With that being said I don't have much time to race maybe a couple hours every couple days. However. I'm still doing pretty well consistent top 5 and a couple wins. Even a poll position and a fastest lap time achieved. But this may help you... What I did on my first couple races was watched the replay of the race and put the camera on the guy who won. Then mimicked his driving line and tried to do it like he did. The cars with BoP are all the same. So it's all about the line you drive. Speed out of the corner is huge aspect to fast times. So check the lines the top racers are doing and I bet you WILL drop 5-10 seconds a race. Keep at it man if you put in the work it will happen

People do not understand just how valuable the replay is for information. Just like you said put the camera on the fast guys and then on you see the differences and see where you are making mistakes! I love the replays!

 

[Quakebass]

See I had worries initially about the online focus, as my online experience in GT5/6 was usually an alien or two ahead by lightyears, some sort of pack somewhere in the middle, and then a few stragglers lagging way the back with me. But then the closed beta came out and within the first week or two of playing I started having races like this:



I didn't win, nor did I even get the podium spot I was fighting for - but it was one of the most exciting races I'd ever had. The fun really comes from having someone to directly compete with - as long as there's a fight for position then there's fun to be had. PD's BoP and DR/SR matching system, while with flaws, really does some magic in making that happen.

 

[Chris Notes]

People do not understand just how valuable the replay is for information. Just like you said put the camera on the fast guys and then on you see the differences and see where you are making mistakes! I love the replays!

Ya definitely. Huge part of the game I agree.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I respect that opinion, but I think you forgot two important quotes:

"They dismissed us as armchair racers and said our game wasn't a sport."

"Burn it to the ground."

The game may be built on the foundation, but it's clear they want nothing to do with that anymore. That's why the fan base is so divided. They want people everywhere to finally accept this as a sport, change everyone's mindset.

I didn't forget those two quotes. I based my response on them in part. Hence why I said it's not easy to change a mindset that has been ingrained into 6 full iterations of the game over 15+ years. I know what they want to do but human nature may not bring everyone along the same path.

What's up man? I have a tip for you. So I'm a dad. I work full time and still try to have a life. With that being said I don't have much time to race maybe a couple hours every couple days. However. I'm still doing pretty well consistent top 5 and a couple wins. Even a poll position and a fastest lap time achieved. But this may help you... What I did on my first couple races was watched the replay of the race and put the camera on the guy who won. Then mimicked his driving line and tried to do it like he did. The cars with BoP are all the same. So it's all about the line you drive. Speed out of the corner is huge aspect to fast times. So check the lines the top racers are doing and I bet you WILL drop 5-10 seconds a race. Keep at it man if you put in the work it will happen

Good advice but you know that can't continue for long right? If the driver rating system works as it should, the better you do, the stiffer your competition will be. It literally should prevent you from consistent winning or even consistent top 5 finishes if it works properly.

 

[Chris Notes]

I didn't forget those two quotes. I based my response on them in part. Hence why I said it's not easy to change a mindset that has been ingrained into 6 full iterations of the game over 15+ years. I know what they want to do but human nature may not bring everyone along the same path.

Good advice but you know that can't continue for long right? If the driver rating system works as it should, the better you do, the stiffer your competition will be. It literally should prevent you from consistent winning or even consistent top 5 finishes if it works properly.

Yea Definitely. I agree. When racing against people if the same skill levels. Without BoP settings on then it comes to tuning and plain skill level. But in races with the BoP settings on then it just comes down to the best lines and your fellow drivers racing a clean race. When up against the A-S classes of drivers most of the results will come from the best tuning knowledge mixed with the least amount of mistakes.

 

[Earth]

See had worries initially about the online focus, as my online experience in GT5/6 was usually an alien or two ahead by lightyears, some sort of pack somewhere in the middle, and then a few stragglers lagging way the back with me. But then the closed beta came out and within the first week or two of playing I started having races like this:



I didn't win, nor did I even get the podium spot I was fighting for - but I was one of the most exciting races I'd ever had. The fun really comes from having someone to directly compete with - as long as there's a fight for position then there's fun to be had. PD's BoP and DR/SR matching system, while with flaws, really does some magic in making that happen.

The DR/SR system should be even better at matching once people get a few dozen races under their belt and get seeded properly

The way qualifying works in sport mode is tricky. Yes it saves you the time from having to qualify for each and every race, but I've had it where improving my qualifying time took me out of the front to midfield to the back of the pack making a win impossible. It felt like a punishment more then a reward.

I'll probably spend alot of time in sport mode, for a few simple reasons:

- dedicated servers
- no host to be at the mercy of
- 24 car races
- higher chance to race those with equal skill levels
- intentionally bad driving is highly discouraged due to the SR system

Overall, Sport mode is looking like it will be a winner 👍

Yea Definitely. I agree. When racing against people if the same skill levels. Without BoP settings on then it comes to tuning and plain skill level. But in races with the BoP settings on then it just comes down to the best lines and your fellow drivers racing a clean race. When up against the A-S classes of drivers most of the results will come from the best tuning knowledge mixed with the least amount of mistakes.

Werent the sport races in the beta using fixed/locked setups? I hope it stays that way. If its about your true skill then setups shouldnt be allowed to be a factor.

 

[Chris Notes]

The DR/SR system should be even better at matching once people get a few dozen races under their belt and get seeded properly

The way qualifying works in sport mode is tricky. Yes it saves you the time from having to qualify for each and every race, but I've had it where improving my qualifying time took me out of the front to midfield to the back of the pack making a win impossible. It felt like a punishment more then a reward.

I'll probably spend alot of time in sport mode, for a few simple reasons:

- dedicated servers
- no host to be at the mercy of
- 24 car races
- higher chance to race those with equal skill levels
- intentionally bad driving is highly discouraged due to the SR system

Overall, Sport mode is looking like it will be a winner 👍



Werent the sport races in the beta using fixed/locked setups? I hope it stays that way. If its about your true skill then setups shouldnt be allowed to be a factor.

Yes the BoP were on in the demo. But that will change when the game comes out. There will still be the races with the BoP on but there will also be ones with you garage cars and their own tuning set ups and upgrades

 

[Spurgy 777]

Werent the sport races in the beta using fixed/locked setups? I hope it stays that way. If its about your true skill then setups shouldnt be allowed to be a factor.

The closed beta allowed setup tuning, and it would be good to have a mix of the two. Aliens are normally somewhat friendly when it comes to giving out setups, so just ask around and I'm sure you'll find something good.

 

[Chris Notes]

The closed beta allowed setup tuning, and it would be good to have a mix of the two. Aliens are normally somewhat friendly when it comes to giving out setups, so just ask around and I'm sure you'll find something good.

Ill be offering some help so feel free to add me to PSN if anyone wants to shoot the **** while we tune up. Notes2828. And yea a mix of the 2 will be good. I like racing in both. But even the littlest of things make a world of difference. Your TCS settings. Balance of breaks. Those 2 small in game on the fly settings can knock off a second or 2 on lap times.

 

[Sloppy Shades]

The way qualifying works in sport mode is tricky. Yes it saves you the time from having to qualify for each and every race, but I've had it where improving my qualifying time took me out of the front to midfield to the back of the pack making a win impossible. It felt like a punishment more then a reward.

That's interesting...as i mentioned earlier I had a couple 5/6 starts and finished in top 5 but after that every race was 20 or below. What happened in between those races though was me entering all 3 races and qualifying while waiting and posting ONE faster time in each spot. So is that why my mid-pack early races with a distant shot at glory tanked to out of my depth back of pack starts?

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I know but WHICH one unlocks the 1965 Ferrari?

Sounds like you probably need to find the key to the museum, probably the only ones left! lol!

 

[Earth]

That's interesting...as i mentioned earlier I had a couple 5/6 starts and finished in top 5 but after that every race was 20 or below. What happened in between those races though was me entering all 3 races and qualifying while waiting and posting ONE faster time in each spot. So is that why my mid-pack early races with a distant shot at glory tanked to out of my depth back of pack starts?

Yes going faster in qualifying tends to put you further and further back it seems. I remember turning in a super lap and all it did was start me at the back of a race with a bunch of aliens instead toward the front of people with my skill level. Not fun at all

I think the starting order should just be random. Find 24 drivers who qualified within a second of eachother and scramble their starting positions. Done. Maybe make the chances of starting higher better for a driver who completed more races that day, or who earned the most SR that day, or who completed the most passes that day. Make good starting positions something you earn.

Because the way its done now is just very flawed.

 

[Sloppy Shades]

Yes going faster in qualifying tends to put you further and further back it seems. I remember turning in a super lap and all it did was start me at the back of a race with a bunch of aliens instead toward the front of people with my skill level. Not fun at all

That one sentence pretty well explains my original post and why I thought it became no fun and impossible to win. Glad I'm not going mad and it's a 'thing'. As the last 2 days have had the same races that explains why I have so many (16 plus) ALL starting form the very back.