The General Anime Thread...

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Cano
Everything about it sucks with the exception of the opening song which is bad-ass, the desing of Vash's gun and his red coat. Everything else is JUNK.
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You're forgetting Meryl, who most certainly is not junk. :drool:
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Have you even watched all of Trigun?

If not, then how can you honestly say it's junk?
If you have, though...






















How can you honestly say it's junk? :p

The only explanation for your loathing of Trigun I can think of is that Vash somehow indirectly killed your parents. :lol:
 
slybugga
I haven't watched all of the first and last, but that seems like a long shot.
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Why does it seem like a long shot? Trigun > Steins;Gate is the only one that could be considered a stretch in my mind, so I'll go ahead and concede that Trigun = Steins;Gate.

Steins;Gate is just good. It's not amazing. It's got a unique art style, occasionally some funny internet-related jokes, some cool characters, and an interesting but not particularly well thought-out story about time travel that's wrapped up with a solid ending.

I was really liking it and was excited when the **** started getting real, but then Mayuri died again. And I immediately knew it was going in that direction, in utter defiance of the Butterfly Effect that the show so carefully established in the first half.

Apparently small actions at the beginning of the anime can have major consequences, but at the halfway point, not even big actions have any effect on the course of events. I guess world lines can only branch at the start of a show? 'I KNOW, LET'S THROW IN A "DIVERGENCE METER" THINGY AND HOPE THEY DON'T THINK TOO HARD ABOUT IT!' :lol:

The direction it went in the second half killed it's chances at being great. But I suspended my disbelief and went with it's convoluted combination of determination of events through both preordained fate and real causality, saw it through to the end and was rewarded with a pretty solid conclusion which saved it from being potentially mediocre or even bad.
Sorry, but there are many better stories involving time travel, even in the realm of anime. Trufax.
 
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Well Steins;Gate is based off the visual novel, and if I'm not mistaken they actually did most, if not all, possible endings.

And in the game they actually go over a whole lot of ****, but they had to cut it out.
 
slybugga
Well Steins;Gate is based off the visual novel, and if I'm not mistaken they actually did most, if not all, possible endings.

And in the game they actually go over a whole lot of ****, but they had to cut it out.
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It doesn't matter how many different endings there are or if there's a movie if

the whole thing about Mayuri being unable to be saved unless some arbitrary d-mail is undone (which couldn't possibly cause her death to be inevitable, unless the D-mail caused her death within a few seconds of the receipt of said D-mail... which it didn't) is still in there.

Let's for instance imagine that I, Yaywalter, have the ability to send D-mails to the past.

I send a few, and I work on making a machine to send my thoughts to the past, and it's all fun and games until I finish said machine and my brother gets shot in the chest by a crazy bitch and dies shortly thereafter.

So I send my memories back in time and I have my brother put on a bulletproof vest underneath his shirt before I complete my machine. But because we're on a specific world line with a specific fate due to the unrelated D-mails I previously sent, my brother is fated to die. So this time, when I complete my machine, the crazy bitch aims for my brother's head instead of his chest.

Contradiction much? In order for the "fated" event of my brother's death to occur in the world line, the events of the world line magically change with absolutely no cause other than "fate". Idiotic.

What would actually happen is that my brother would get shot in the chest like before, but live because he was wearing the vest. And as she fired at my brother, I would sneak up behind her and knock her out with something like a baseball bat or frying pan. And we'd branch off to a new world line right then and there.
 
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And the d-mails have to do with the butterfly effect.

The first d-mail Okabe accidentally sent ended up putting him (or his memories) in a parallel timeline ie different rope, and in that timeline Mayuri was fated to die ie the end of the rope. And each d-mail moved Okabe to a different twine in which Mayuri dies sooner.

Personally I thought it made sense. Epecially Suzuha's analogy.
 
slybugga
And the d-mails have to do with the butterfly effect.

The first d-mail Okabe accidentally sent ended up putting him (or his memories) in a parallel timeline ie different rope, and in that timeline Mayuri was fated to die ie the end of the rope. And each d-mail moved Okabe to a different twine in which Mayuri dies sooner.

Personally I thought it made sense. Epecially Suzuha's analogy.
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Indeed. But read my example above.

Sending one's memories back in time with knowledge of the events to come should give them the ability to alter the course of events and branch off into a different timeline where different things happen.
 
So it's the concept of fate that bothers you?

Okabe did what he could to save Mayuri, but since that was a fixed point in that timeline, it had to happen. Noticed how it always started with Mayuri's watch not working?

Also, after the 1% barrier was crossed, who's to say Mayuri didn't die shortly after and that moment was just sent back farther? Maybe Okabe's ****ed forever and will continue doing this for the rest of his life. We shall see.
 
yaywalter
Indeed. But read my example above.

Sending one's memories back in time with knowledge of the events to come should give them the ability to alter the course of events and branch off into a different timeline where different things happen.
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Which is what Okabe ultimately did in the end. His future self used that knowledge to come up with a plan to save Kurisu and Mayuri.
 
Loliblade ver2
So it's the concept of fate that bothers you?
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I don't have a problem with stories about fate, just as I don't have a problem with stories involving causality. But stories that switch between the two incompatible ideas on the fly in whatever way it wants to create drama are very dumb and annoying.


slybugga
Which is what Okabe ultimately did in the end. His future self used that knowledge to come up with a plan to save Kurisu and Mayuri.
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Absolutely.
But he should've been able to accomplish that without needing to undo the d-mails. He already saved Kurisu in this particular world line, and saving Mayuri should've been a relatively simple matter. But causality steps aside at this point and fate steps in.

And as explained in my earlier example where the woman inexplicably aims at my brother's head instead of his chest the second time around, the ideas of causality and fate are incompatible.
 
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Undoing the d-mails gave him more time to complete his task. Each one set the moment back a day, allowing him to have more flexibility with time-leaping.

Sooooo many Steins;Gate spoilers :lol:
 
yaywalter
Absolutely.
But he should've been able to accomplish that without needing to undo the d-mails.
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Except that sending d-mails moved him further away from the divergence point. By sending more butterfly effect d-mails in an attempt to fix things rather than undue them would move him even further away from the divergence point. Plus it's not like at that point he would know what to do in order to change things by doing different d-mails. He took the most sensible route, cancel the butterfly effect d-mails by sending d-mails that would make the butterfly effect d-mails null and void, thus undoing the changes.
 
Loliblade ver2
Undoing the d-mails gave him more time to complete his task. Each one set the moment back a day, allowing him to have more flexibility with time-leaping.

Sooooo many Steins;Gate spoilers :lol:
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That doesn't change the fact that

He should've been able to save Mayuri on his very first try, since his altered actions should cause them to branch to an all new world line.

And there's still no established reason why the d-mails specifically cause Mayuri's death, why undoing just one of them wouldn't drastically alter the world line and save Mayuri, or why undoing a single D-mail sets the event back exactly one day. They establish the idea that the first D-mail tips CERN off to their activities, but that in itself doesn't cause Mayuri to die on a specific day. It might eventually lead to it, as it did, but there's nothing about that which should prevent Okabe from saving her on his very first try by time-leaping.


slybugga
Except that sending d-mails moved him further away from the divergence point. By sending more butterfly effect d-mails in an attempt to fix things rather than undue them would move him even further away from the divergence point. Plus it's not like at that point he would know what to do in order to change things by doing different d-mails. He took the most sensible route, cancel the butterfly effect d-mails by sending d-mails that would make the butterfly effect d-mails null and void, thus undoing the changes.
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Hate to break it to you, but the idea of a "divergence point" as used by Steins;Gate is just utter nonsense.
Any time the past is changed is a divergence point.

The very first time Okabe time-leapt and attempted to save Mayuri should've been a divergence point.

The specific divergence point in Steins;Gate presumably refers to the specific one where the first D-mail is sent and tips CERN off. In which case, it makes sense that they'd need to undo the D-mails to prevent the horrible apocalyptic future. But there's no reason why the D-mails would have to be undone in order to save Mayuri, as depicted in the show.
 
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yaywalter
That doesn't change the fact that

He should've been able to save Mayuri on his very first try, since his altered actions should cause them to branch to an all new world line.

And there's still no established reason why the d-mails specifically cause Mayuri's death, why undoing just one of them wouldn't drastically alter the world line and save Mayuri, or why undoing a single D-mail sets the event back exactly one day. They establish the idea that the first D-mail tips CERN off to their activities, but that in itself doesn't cause Mayuri to die on a specific day. It might eventually lead to it, as it did, but there's nothing about that which should prevent Okabe from saving her on his very first try by time-leaping.
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The d-mails never caused Mayuri's death. The first d-mail he sent moved Okabe to a timeline where Mayuri's death was sooner and Kurisu lives. And once again with the butterfly effect, those tiny changes (Feyris' father and Ruka's sex change) effected Mayuri's time of death. The effect of those d-mails was moving Mayuri's death closer along with changing other stuff.

And the first d-mail never tipped SERN to their activities. The fact that Daru made a direct connection to SERN and kept the direct connection while they posted on boards about time travel tipped SERN off to their activities.

And no amount of Okabe's time-leaping could have saved Mayuri. We seen it happen many, many times. Because in this timeline her death was fated to be around that time.
 
slybugga
The d-mails never caused Mayuri's death. The first d-mail he sent moved Okabe to a timeline where Mayuri's death was sooner and Kurisu lives. And once again with the butterfly effect, those tiny changes (Feyris' father and Ruka's sex change) effected Mayuri's time of death. The effect of those d-mails was moving Mayuri's death closer along with changing other stuff.

And the first d-mail never tipped SERN to their activities. The fact that Daru made a direct connection to SERN and kept the direct connection while they posted on boards about time travel tipped SERN off to their activities.

And no amount of Okabe's time-leaping could have saved Mayuri. We seen it happen many, many times. Because in this timeline her death was fated to be around that time.
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:banghead:

Exactly. In a nutshell you and the show are saying that sending text messages to the past have the ability to alter the timeline, but sending your memories back in time and actually doing things differently can't.

****ing retarded.

I'm not arguing the fact that the D-mails led to Mayuri's death, but the D-mails cause a very specific chain of events that lead to a very specific occurrence, Moeka shooting Mayuri. Any small disturbance caused by Okabe time-leaping and doing things differently should alter the course of events due to the butterfly effect. And when he specifically knows the event and changes his actions to specifically disrupt the early demise of Mayuri, it should be an easily accomplished task.
 
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yaywalter
:banghead:

Exactly. In a nutshell you and the show are saying that sending text messages to the past have the ability to alter the timeline, but sending your memories back in time and actually doing things differently can't.

****ing retarded.
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No.

The d-mails change the past and the future. But the d-mail has the possibility to cross the line of divergence and put you in a different timeline. Hence episode one.

Time-leaping puts you back into the past in an attempt to change the future. But Mayuri's death in this timeline was fated to happen. Okabe was attempting to change fate.
 
slybugga
No.

The d-mails change the past and the future. But the d-mail has the possibility to cross the line of divergence and put you in a different timeline. Hence episode one.

Time-leaping puts you back into the past in an attempt to change the future. But Mayuri's death in this timeline was fated to happen. Okabe was attempting to change fate.
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So by "No." you mean "Yes.", because that's exactly what I said.

D-mails apparently can change the future because they can cross some fictional nonsense "line of divergence", but you can't change the future when time-leaping because it apparently doesn't cross said line despite the fact that you're actively doing things differently than you did before, which should in itself cause the world line to diverge to a completely new one.
 
My 'No' was referring to your
but sending your memories back in time and actually doing things differently can't.

Which to refers to my statement of
Time-leaping puts you back into the past in an attempt to change the future. But Mayuri's death in this timeline was fated to happen. Okabe was attempting to change fate.

But you are half-correct. My
The d-mails change the past and the future. But the d-mail has the possibility to cross the line of divergence and put you in a different timeline. Hence episode one.

Is a reiteration of your
sending text messages to the past have the ability to alter the timeline
In a form that I felt made more sense.

yaywalter
D-mails apparently can change the future because they can cross some fictional nonsense "line of divergence", but you can't change the future when time-leaping because it apparently doesn't cross said line despite the fact that you're actively doing things differently than you did before, which should in itself cause the world line to diverge to a completely new one.
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Okabe could have changed whatever he wanted by using time-leap. But he was trying to change the one thing he couldn't. He was trying to change the one constant, inevitable thing in that timeline.

We seen him try again and again and again. He even tried to use himself as a sacrifice for Mayuri and it still didn't work.
 
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New profile pic. Asuka seems particularly happy about it :D

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And of course, a new avatar. :) I'm alternating avatars and prof pics between Misato/Asuka every month. They're both so...everything really :D
 
slybugga
My 'No' was referring to your
but sending your memories back in time and actually doing things differently can't.

Which to refers to my statement of
Time-leaping puts you back into the past in an attempt to change the future. But Mayuri's death in this timeline was fated to happen. Okabe was attempting to change fate.

But you are half-correct. My
The d-mails change the past and the future. But the d-mail has the possibility to cross the line of divergence and put you in a different timeline. Hence episode one.

Is a reiteration of your
sending text messages to the past have the ability to alter the timeline
In a form that I felt made more sense.
Okabe could have changed whatever he wanted by using time-leap. But he was trying to change the one thing he couldn't.

We seen him try again and again and again. He even tried to use himself and it still didn't work.
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And that's where it breaks down for me.

The D-mails certainly could lead to Mayuri's death, but it leads to it in a very specific way. There's absolutely no reason why her death should be made "inevitable" or "fated".

If you can change things by time-leaping just as you can by sending D-mails, then preventing her death should be an easy matter. There's no logical reason why you should be able to change some things but specific things like her death are absolutely fated.

The idea that it's because they're on a specific timeline where her death is fated is also nonsense, because the timeline diverges to an entirely new one anytime anything is done the slightest bit different in the past due to either D-mails or time-leaping, which could change anything and everything due to the butterfly effect. If Okabe time-leapt and drank a Pepsi one day instead of a Dr. Pepper, they'd diverge to a new timeline. And thanks to the butterfly effect, who knows what consequences that minor change would have? Who knows, that alone could even be enough to save Mayuri.
 
Drink Pepsi instead?! That would destroy Okabe internally. :lol:

Also, doesn't the butterfly effect apply long-term? Sooo going back a day would change things, but not as much as saaay.. sending a text back a week.
 
Loliblade ver2
Drink Pepsi instead?! That would destroy Okabe internally. :lol:

Also, doesn't the butterfly effect apply long-term? Sooo going back a day would change things, but not as much as saaay.. sending a text back a week.
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Indeed, changes accumulate over time. But that doesn't mean going back a day and doing something major wouldn't have immediate, major consequences.

If I went back in time one day, went out and got in a GTA-style shootout for the hell of it, I'd wind up in jail or dead pretty damn quick. Which is a reasonably big change. :p
 
And then 30 years in the future will be the rise of a new roman empire. All because of you, dick.

But it still wouldn't stop Mayuri's death.
 
Indeed. :lol:


In any case, slybugga seems to have gone offline. I'll consider that victory. :sly:

Off topic, It's pretty startling to imagine how killing or saving a single person could alter the course of history. You'd potentially be drastically altering the future family trees of many people, causing some people not to be born and causing others to be born instead. And these many people are/were going to do who knows what in their lifetimes, leading to all sorts of differences.
 
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akiraacecombat
Maybe this will change your mind:

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What the Fuyutsuki? I wanna be that pole. :drool:
Loliblade ver2
Cowboy Bebop > Steins;Gate?
FLCL > Steins;Gate?
Trigun > Steins;Gate!?

YAYPEDO'S TROLLING ME.
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Don't forget NGE > Steins;Gate. :sly:

Also, the whole idea of D-mails is exciting cyber-Asuka. She keeps muttering "ich konnte Hitler toeten!"
 

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