I liked Guilty Crown. I wasn't all that disappointed with it because its moments of promise were far apart. My own lack of disappointment and liking of the show is not a factor in me calling the story terrible.
All of the characters were archetypes with shreds of development. Their writing also changed frequently. Gai went from magical badass to
super villain, to misunderstood villain, to hero in the course of a few episodes. Inconsistent, poor attempt at character depth. His agenda was not eluded to, it was created out of thin air, just like the point where he comes back to life. This was also part of the inconsistency of the story. It started as a school show with some powers, focused on rebellion, then magical ******** happened and there was an apocalypse. The apocalypse setting had promise until they shift back to the storyline that was mentioned in episode 12(if I recall correctly), the magical ******** aspect. They do this by bringing a character who SHOULD be dead back to life and giving him said agenda that he apparently had all this time. For what reason? So Shu can have a villain to fight and Gai can be like "lol I was the king all along lolololol the writers just trolled you because your arm is gone".
Shu loses his arm, which he somehow recuperates from in the span of a goddamn day instead of dying from blood loss. So then Inori goes from silent girl to determined monster out of nowhere, because Shu needs protecting, hallelujah. There's a lot of inconsistency there. Character inconsistency, story inconsistency, hell, even the power of the king's capabilities were inconsistent. Sometimes people passed out, sometimes they were awake when their voids were removed. And no, it did not depend on whether or not Shoe was holding them. Sometimes he held Inori and she still passed out, but holding onto Gai is a different story apparently. There was also when Shu got his arm sliced off, Inori was awake as Gai had her void. Good job writers!
In case you were wondering, extremely inconsistent =bad writing. Just because you like it, or enjoyed it, doesn't mean it was good. I enjoyed the hell out of every single episode.
The ending was also a garbled mess and Shu ended up blind. Wat.
Back to the archetype characters:
Magical badass
Whiny bitch(who turned into hitler and jesus, which does not equal proper character development)
Silent girl, few emotions.
Tsundere
Catgirl loli
That cast(mostly since most don't receive good or proper development) is objectively terrible.
Guess what I just read? Your personal opinion of the show, and there was bias in there like I expected there to be (As it's completely impossible to analyze a show with no bias), so good job trying to be impartial or fair when scoring it.
To point out one instance where bias was found in there...
It was about Gai needing to stay dead. Who is to say he MUST stay dead? Does it have to be different from like Naruto and Dragon Ball Z which bring back characters from the dead all the time? It goes into what you personally think should happen for a show to be good, such as a character that dies needing to stay dead.
You did put in what actually did happen, but it depends on who's viewing it, what they find forgivable/can look over, their tastes, etc., which goes into how complete objectivity, or objectivity about quality in general doesn't exist. No two people view the same show the same way, and it can't be proved a show is bad objectively, because of bias. The moment bias pops in, the argument about it being objectively bad is invalid.
I didn't find the characters and story of Guilty Crown bad (Story is decent, character, that's meh), but it did suffer in that second half where things went downhill. You had things make next to no sense, like the writers tried to make it seem like Inori and Shu were Lelouch and C.C. by showing them in that room, but there was hardly any actual interaction between the two in the second half. How pointless!
How about leaving a control tower inside the perimeter, where you got a bunch of kids with superpowers now? Sure it's guarded, but the security was weak. Let's not forget a bunch of students trying to kill their leader, when them doing so would make them SOL.
Those are a few things, and I need to rewatch the show to better explain myself.
Also if you must say things are objectively bad, start believing in Sturgeon's Law. Find every 9 out of 10 shows to be complete and utter 🤬, and don't even dare give them a score higher than a 4.
BTW, going by your statements about GC right now, your score of 6 (Which is a positive score, not negative) is overly generous, and it sounds more like a 3/10 show to me.
Go and read this argument I saw as it happened months back, and try to see what Yuken tried to convey. This argument is actually quite similar to ours right now.
Also note, it took place on Anime-Planet, so when scores are discussed, you should keep in mind it's a 5 star system, not MAL's 1-10 system.
Remember TC, just because a show seems interesting, exciting or enjoyable, doesn't mean it's good.
Thank you for stating the completely obvious. Quality does affect my enjoyment however. If the characters for example suck, enjoyment goes down. If the scriptwriters can't remember what the hell they wrote five minutes ago (Like in Kiba) and it's very noticeable, enjoyment can go down as well.
I've certainly found bad shows enjoyable before, like Mars of Destruction. Quite enjoyable, but so bad, it definitely is deserving of the award of being one of the worst anime ever made.
I get where you're coming from when you say things are subjective. In the broadest point-of-view, yes, everything is an opinion. However, if everything is so free-willed, we cannot judge a show (yes, even you) if we don't set a criteria of what determines it to be what we would call "good". People didn't out of nowhere just declare what needs to be good in a criteria. What people believe in has been a developed perspective over the course of history. What affects our opinions on things can include seemingly irrelevant subjects such as culture, past knowledge, and personal experience.
So how do we know what's right? Who's to say what's right and what's not? If you want to go to the extremes, the answer would be nobody; but because that concept is waaay beyond our intelligence, we declare what's good and isn't good through mutual agreements.
On the subject of character development, a reason why the general consensus why Madoka's character have developed better than Kore/Zombie could be is because the emotions and behaviours of each individual made sense to us; that is, the cause and effect for everything is believable (meaning that we feel that if there were real people in the same situations, they would have acted the same way) and thus, we label that plausible, reasonable, logical, etc.. For it to be believable doesn't restrict it to being realistic in reality. You have to remember that characters are a reflection of us; people. We can't make up what we don't know. Characters are creations of what someone thinks other people are like or are capable of being like. Similarly enough, by the criteria humans have been raised to follow (a concept you probably cannot grasp), we seek to understand characters throughout the duration of the show; whether or not they learn from their mistakes, grow up, and make the right decisions. If we cannot understand this, our brains cannot agree to those actions being correct, the character doesn't fulfill the criteria we base our judgment on, and thus we deem the development of that character "bad".
Recall what I said about what factors into how we judge something. This I personally believe is what has greatly influenced the way you view things, and it just so happens to drastically contrast the general consensus of what is "good" and what isn't. And the only reason why the majority of us tend to disagree with your opinions is because you have shown clearly several examples of reasonings and opinions that are greatly farfetched we do not understand because by our criteria of judgement, we don't believe your actions are sound (i.e. watching "bad" shows deliberately), and with the numerous beliefs we are unable to agree with, you've created a negative reputation of yourself.
Last thing I wanted to say that you might like to chew on (by that I mean "research") is the origins of "truth"; where the truth is not something that exists on its own, but the one who can creating a more convincing argument creates the "truth".
BTW, going by your statements about GC right now, your score of 6 (Which is a positive score, not negative) is overly generous, and it sounds more like a 3/10 show to me.
And that's where we have different opinions that we won't understand. I fail to see how Madoka's characters are better, and you fail to see how Kore wa Zombie desu Ka?'s are better. No amount of arguing is going to change that.
It depends on who's viewing it, and the angle they're viewing it at. Though no one person is superior because they saw show X that way, and show Y that way.
Also why watch Kore wa Zombie desu Ka? if you find only one single character likable, and the others I'm guessing are annoying, and not likable at all?
I watched it because I wanted to see what would happen. Was it good? Barely. Are the characters deep like the Mariana Trench? I could barely get my ankles wet.
The difference between you and I is that I try to understand others views, but you just get all offended and try to defend yourself with barely even mentioning why you have come to your conclusion.
It's the same **** every time. You post up something that makes us scratch our head, like Kore wa Zombie Desu Ka is better than Madoka. We call you out on it and you get all offended and turn it into a huge argument. You draw the subjective card every time, and now it's the bias card. I recall you saying you don't have bias, now you said everyone does.
You don't explain why. Why are Kore wa Zombie Desu Ka's characters better than Madokas? What makes it better than Madoka?
Tell me in a well composed post without mentioning bias, subjectivity, referencing roriconfan or anyone elses posts, and getting all pissy like you did to Loli.
I get where you're coming from when you say things are subjective. In the broadest point-of-view, yes, everything is an opinion. However, if everything is so free-willed, we cannot judge a show (yes, even you) if we don't set a criteria of what determines it to be what we would call "good". People didn't out of nowhere just declare what needs to be good in a criteria. What people believe in has been a developed perspective over the course of history. What affects our opinions on things can include seemingly irrelevant subjects such as culture, past knowledge, and personal experience.
Everyone has their own different criteria, and the main one (i.e. the most common) varies from site to site. Like AniDB for example has very, very high standards (I've been around there, and even have an account there-in need of serious updating, like that top 20 list-, so I know), to the point they laugh at those with low standards. If I showed those in the forums on AniDB this thread, they'd facepalm at us, especially from us finding Madoka good. We have lower standards compared to them.
So how do we know what's right? Who's to say what's right and what's not? If you want to go to the extremes, the answer would be nobody; but because that concept is waaay beyond our intelligence, we declare what's good and isn't good through mutual agreements.
Indeed, nobody is right on what is good and what is bad, since it's subjective, and depends on various factors, one of the most evil being bias, which is apart of human nature.
However declaring what's good and what isn't good just by going to other people isn't showing what you personally believe. Do you yourself find X show good, and X show bad?
On the subject of character development, a reason why the general consensus why Madoka's character have developed better than Kore/Zombie could be is because the emotions and behaviours of each individual made sense to us; that is, the cause and effect for everything is believable (meaning that we feel that if there were real people in the same situations, they would have acted the same way) and thus, we label that plausible, reasonable, logical, etc.. For it to be believable doesn't restrict it to being realistic in reality. You have to remember that characters are a reflection of us; people. We can't make up what we don't know. Characters are creations of what someone thinks other people are like or are capable of being like. Similarly enough, by the criteria humans have been raised to follow (a concept you probably cannot grasp), we seek to understand characters throughout the duration of the show; whether or not they learn from their mistakes, grow up, and make the right decisions. If we cannot understand this, our brains cannot agree to those actions being correct, the character doesn't fulfill the criteria we base our judgment on, and thus we deem the development of that character "bad".
But it still doesn't mean however that it's a fact that they're developed good or badly. My opinion on the characters in Kore wa Zombie desu Ka? being better than Madoka's is merely an opinion, just like those who find Madoka's better, it's an opinion.
Recall what I said about what factors into how we judge something. This I personally believe is what has greatly influenced the way you view things, and it just so happens to drastically contrast the general consensus of what is "good" and what isn't. And the only reason why the majority of us tend to disagree with your opinions is because you have shown clearly several examples of reasonings and opinions that are greatly farfetched we do not understand because by our criteria of judgement, we don't believe your actions are sound (i.e. watching "bad" shows deliberately), and with the numerous beliefs we are unable to agree with, you've created a negative reputation of yourself.
And having a negative reputation is something I don't care about, it's just something that happens when you disagree with the general community. I stick with what I believe, and I defend it.
Disagreement is one thing that helps make a community not boring. I mean it's boring when everyone is like "X, x, x, x, x, x, and x are good." all the time, and they're scoring everything practically the same exact score. It's like if everyone was exactly the same, it's boring.
Also on the watching bad shows thing, would you rather my scores be full of nothing but 9's and 10's from watching only amazing shows? I explained myself, one main reason why I want to watch bad shows is I need balance in my scoring. What does my scoring look like to you guys right now? I'm a mindless idiotic anime fanboy. 4% of my ratings lie between 2/10 and 5/10, and 20% if you want to include 6/10.
Last thing I wanted to say that you might like to chew on (by that I mean "research") is the origins of "truth"; where the truth is not something that exists on its own, but the one who can creating a more convincing argument creates the "truth".
However, everyone perceives things differently, so you have to remember, what's convincing to many, may not to others (Think those that doubted the Catholic Church teaching of everything revolving around the earth), which makes what someone says about the quality of a show not an infallible truth.
Another factor which is worse than bias is memory. You remember Kore Zombie, Freezing, Hidan no Aria, etc as being awesome shows, right? Like, really awesome high-up great stuff. This could change upon rewatching them as you now have a much different mentality. You try to be more critical of shows now, which I appreciate, but you might be shifting the criticism on things that are undeserving of it while you praise things you saw before you had this mentality. Go back and watch Freezing or Kore Zombie, then tell me they're better than Madoka. With superiorly developed characters and stories that were written so much better.
Also on the watching bad shows thing, would you rather my scores be full of nothing but 9's and 10's from watching only amazing shows? I explained myself, one main reason why I want to watch bad shows is I need balance in my scoring. What does my scoring look like to you guys right now? I'm a mindless idiotic anime fanboy. 4% of my ratings lie between 2/10 and 5/10, and 20% if you want to include 6/10.
However, everyone perceives things differently, so you have to remember, what's convincing to many, may not to others (Think those that doubted the Catholic Church teaching of everything revolving around the earth), which makes what someone says about the quality of a show not an infallible truth.
So you're purposely saying you watch shows that are ****** just to keep your score down? That's stupid. Time is valueable, and you saying you waste your time watching ****** shows on purpose just says that your time is worthless since it can be wasted so easily on ****** shows.
And you can't compare this to religious beliefs, don't even bring religious beliefs up because that has nothing to do with this and you will just start more ****.
But to be fair, they had their reason to believe why the Earth was the center of the universe, which was only backed by stories. Others like Galileo sought knowledge and explanations which is backed up by scientific observations.
So, in a sense, you are the Church, we are Galileo. You don't want to accept our opinions force your own on us, and you lash out at us to bring us down to your level. BTW, I am Roman Catholic.
Another factor which is worse than bias is memory. You remember Kore Zombie, Freezing, Hidan no Aria, etc as being awesome shows, right? Like, really awesome high-up great stuff. This could change upon rewatching them as you now have a much different mentality. You try to be more critical of shows now, which I appreciate, but you might be shifting the criticism on things that are undeserving of it while you praise things you saw before you had this mentality. Go back and watch Freezing or Kore Zombie, then tell me they're better than Madoka. With superiorly developed characters and stories that were written so much better.
You know what he has never, ever brought up? Rewatchability. I have watched Madoka completely 4 times already, Gurren Lagann 3, OreImo 3, Darker than Black 3, FMA:B 3, and Nichijou clips numerous times.
Rewatchability should play a big factor in your scoring but yet you have never mentioned it. If it's so good, why won't you watch it again?
Another factor which is worse than bias is memory. You remember Kore Zombie, Freezing, Hidan no Aria, etc as being awesome shows, right? Like, really awesome high-up great stuff. This could change upon rewatching them as you now have a much different mentality. You try to be more critical of shows now, which I appreciate, but you might be shifting the criticism on things that are undeserving of it while you praise things you saw before you had this mentality. Go back and watch Freezing or Kore Zombie, then tell me they're better than Madoka. With superiorly developed characters and stories that were written so much better.
It could change, yes. But here's something, scores have been changed. I've been looking at so many scores, and lowering them (I did a mass lowering earlier this year, and my mean score on MALGraph dropped from an 8.0x to around the 7.60's.). Why earlier I lowered both Vampire Knight and Vampire Knight Guilty from 8/10's to 7/10's. I've been getting critical on shows I watched before I started to get more critical.
Aria the Scarlet Ammo has gone down from a 9/10, to an 8/10, to a 7/10, and is close to a 6/10.
Freezing, I don't find it as good as when I initially watched it (Very close to a 9/10), but I still find it quite good.
Kore wa Zombie desu Ka? went from a 9/10 to an 8/10.
So you're purposely saying you watch shows that are ****** just to keep your score down? That's stupid. Time is valueable, and you saying you waste your time watching ****** shows on purpose just says that your time is worthless since it can be wasted so easily on ****** shows.
Again, do you want me to be someone who's scoring system is so off? How did the 8/10 joke come into existence?
What do you think about my scoring (Other than it being wrong)? Do you think it needs lower scores? You probably do.
As for time being worthless, I'm free to spend it however I want. I already waste it by sleeping too much. 12+ hours is not good for you.
And you can't compare this to religious beliefs, don't even bring religious beliefs up because that has nothing to do with this and you will just start more ****.
But to be fair, they had their reason to believe why the Earth was the center of the universe, which was only backed by stories. Others like Galileo sought knowledge and explanations which is backed up by scientific observations.
So, in a sense, you are the Church, we are Galileo. You don't want to accept our opinions force your own on us, and you lash out at us to bring us down to your level. BTW, I am Roman Catholic.
I only brought it up as it's one of the first things that came up in my mind. I could have instead brought up the false belief that the earth is flat looking back.
I accept there are other opinions, and I'm not saying for you to find these shows better than Madoka. I personally find them better, but that's just me.
Enjoy Accel World like crazy? Go ahead, you're seeing stuff in that show I'm not. Find Shakugan no Shana season 1 a masterpiece? Alright, even though I can't see how it's that good, especially after I brought those 9's for S1 & S2 down to 8/10's.
Like Black*Rock Shooter TV? Fine, though I'll never be able to see how people love it so much. I mean finding a show good for action alone?
Find Bleach horrible? I can easily see why (Post Soul Society), and it's not something I'll take to heart.
Don't like Hunter x Hunter? Fine, but don't go talking like you know the entire thing without having ever watched the show. "Typical generic Shonen with weak art." which is something many would say.
You know what he has never, ever brought up? Rewatchability. I have watched Madoka completely 4 times already, Gurren Lagann 3, OreImo 3, Darker than Black 3, FMA:B 3, and Nichijou clips numerous times.
Rewatchability should play a big factor in your scoring but yet you have never mentioned it. If it's so good, why won't you watch it again?
Still working on replying to your previous post, but I saw this after I did the preview thing.
It's not that I won't, I mean I want to, but I haven't rewatched many shows, mainly because I don't physically own them (Rewatching is easier for me when I own it on Blu-ray or DVD, especially since that means the option of a different audio track if it's not subbed-only, and I'm not restricted to streams with expiration dates), nor have the time because I'm focusing on other shows. Look at how much I'm watching right now. http://myanimelist.net/animelist/BigOnAnime&status=1&order=0
It gets even bigger when you go to everything. I haven't added nearly everything I want to watch anywhere yet.
Rewatchability is personally something I don't put into scores, as in what is the rewatch value? How high or low is it? For something like The Tatami Galaxy, it's extremely high, but I don't factor that into my rating. Something like Naruto has very low rewatch value, but I don't factor that into the rating. I know people who do, and it's fine for them to do so, it's just not something that fits my criteria when rating.
As for time being worthless, I'm free to spend it however I want. I already waste it by sleeping too much. 12+ hours is not good for you.I only brought it up as it's one of the first things that came up in my mind. I could have instead brought up the false belief that the earth is flat looking back.
Yup, your time is worthless. Whereas mine isn't, so I won't purposely seek shows that I know I won't like just to keep my score down.
It would have been better to bring up the whole flat Earth thing rather than religion. You can say what you want about religion to me, but the same can't be said about other members.
I accept there are other opinions, and I'm not saying for you to find these shows better than Madoka. I personally find them better, but that's just me.
Enjoy Accel World like crazy? Go ahead, you're seeing stuff in that show I'm not. Find Shakugan no Shana season 1 a masterpiece? Alright, even though I can't see how it's that good, especially after I brought those 9's for S1 & S2 down to 8/10's.
Like Black*Rock Shooter TV? Fine, though I'll never be able to see how people love it so much. I mean finding a show good for action alone?
Find Bleach horrible? I can easily see why (Post Soul Society), and it's not something I'll take to heart.
Don't like Hunter x Hunter? Fine, but don't go talking like you know the entire thing without having ever watched the show. "Typical generic Shonen with weak art." which is something many would say.Still working on replying to your previous post, but I saw this after I did the preview thing.
You didn't even explain why Kore wa Zombie is better than Madoka...
Rewatchability is personally something I don't put into scores, as in what is the rewatch value? How high or low is it? For something like The Tatami Galaxy, it's extremely high, but I don't factor that into my rating. Something like Naruto has very low rewatch value, but I don't factor that into the rating. I know people who do, and it's fine for them to do so, it's just not something that fits my criteria when rating.
Well, it should be factored for a more accurate score. What's the point in rating something 10/10 if you will only watch it once? Also you wouldn't buy it if you are only going to watch it once. Something that is truly worth that score would have a very high rewatch value because you would always find it entertaining.
You could compare it to ice cream. Is it really the best flavor in the world if you will only eat it once, and never again?
And maybe I should buy another AnoHana just to resell. Or give away. I just feel like giving away my second Gurren Lagann movie.
TC, something I noticed is that you bring up a claim, and never back it up. You never accept your burden of proof. Instead of accepting it like you should, you flip the topic and get on the defensive and attack others. Others bring up their points and you ignore them and attack it with the same responses. That's opinion, that's bias, this site, etc. No one is ever going to take you seriously if you can't even back up your own claims! So instead of attacking, where the hell is your proof?
Prepare to see a wall of text. I'm still working on it.
Well, it should be factored for a more accurate score. What's the point in rating something 10/10 if you will only watch it once? Also you wouldn't buy it if you are only going to watch it once. Something that is truly worth that score would have a very high rewatch value because you would always find it entertaining.
You could compare it to ice cream. Is it really the best flavor in the world if you will only eat it once, and never again?
And maybe I should buy another AnoHana just to resell. Or give away. I just feel like giving away my second Gurren Lagann movie.
A 10/10 is something you give to something you personally truly believe to be a masterpiece. However I don't believe in factoring rewatch value into my scores. There are certain shows I've given a 7/10 with higher rewatch value than a show with a 9/10. Length of a series can affect its rewatch value. Something like One Piece is daunting, it's going to be at least 700 episodes. It's highly enjoyable, there will be things you'll be looking more closely at the second time around, but the amount of time it will take to rewatch is the problem.
The unfortunate thing is many of my favorites are not in limited quantities right now, and other shows I want to own are. I'd be kicking myself in the foot if I bought a bunch of One Piece box sets, and skipped over Fate/Zero 2 and allow it to sell out. How's about buying Honey and Clover, and allowing the Dragon Ball Z Dragon Boxes to sell out? There's a reason why collectors want those things so hardcore, and despise the season sets.
TC, something I noticed is that you bring up a claim, and never back it up. You never accept your burden of proof. Instead of accepting it like you should, you flip the topic and get on the defensive and attack others. Others bring up their points and you ignore them and attack it with the same responses. That's opinion, that's bias, this site, etc. No one is ever going to take you seriously if you can't even back up your own claims! So instead of attacking, where the hell is your proof?
Also I have backed things up in the past. I backed up why I thought Endless Eight was bad (It overdid the point, and failed at how you're supposed to do timeloops-showed everything eight times, instead of just the main events eight times), even though there was a point to it.
There was also me backing up why I feel Accel World had gone downhill (It is improving, and fixing problems as of right now), and what was it that I found to be better in Okami-San.
The difference between you and I is that I try to understand others views, but you just get all offended and try to defend yourself with barely even mentioning why you have come to your conclusion.
So, you never get offended? You never get offended when I got all angry over Endless Eight (Which is where these arguments between you and I began)? You even said my thoughts on Endless Eight, and Haruhi in general were null because I apparently don't understand a single thing about the series.
I explained the problem with Endless Eight in our last argument in case you forgot. It overdoes the point, and fails at timeloops by showing you the exact same events (Just from different angles and different clothes) eight times, instead of showing the same main events, but making everything else leading up to those different.
I've seen better, and appreciate those shows that did timeloops better far more than season 2 of Haruhi's Endless Eight.
It's the same **** every time. You post up something that makes us scratch our head, like Kore wa Zombie Desu Ka is better than Madoka. We call you out on it and you get all offended and turn it into a huge argument. You draw the subjective card every time, and now it's the bias card. I recall you saying you don't have bias, now you said everyone does.
When did I say I don't have bias? Every human being has them. Also the only reason why bias came out is we had someone saying shows are objectively good, and objectively bad, and writing a review with bias is not the way to review, even though it's impossible to review without it if you're human.
I said I didn't have a bias towards Shonen (Because "OMG, it's Shonen! TC has to find it good just because it's Shonen!!!! No wonder why he likes this more than Madoka!!"), however I later admitted my bias towards Studio Ghibli, one I'm very well aware of. I feel there doesn't exist a single thing from them that's bad.
Also, the way you guys go about "calling me out" on my opinion being piss poor "Kore wa Zombie desu Ka? Better than Madoka? He's still an idiot, and wrong like usual." is something that leads to it, along with Loli's goal of making me feel like crap (Note you'll get two completely different stories, so honestly, don't trust either. Just go with we had crap go on, and we don't like each other), so he's more direct at me with his posts. The day he tries to have a positive convo with me is the day the world ends.
Dravonic is pretty much the one who tries being the most nice when asking, as you could see from the Muv-Luv debate.
BTW, this and ARM are the only places this crap (This current argument) ever happens at. Must be because of how different this place can be from the other places I go to.
You don't explain why. Why are Kore wa Zombie Desu Ka's characters better than Madokas? What makes it better than Madoka?
Why I don't go into why is one problem I have is I have far more difficulty than most people explaining why I liked something. It's far more easier to explain why I hated something than loved something. I can explain easier why I hate Hiiro no Kakera far better than why I love One Piece. Though I guess this means I'm not allowed to have any opinion whatsoever, and should turn in my anime fan card.
As for the explanation, it will be about season 1's because season 2 fell flat on everything. The story and characters don't progress at all. Season 2 is by no means better than any of Madoka. I highly doubt you'll accept any explanation I give though.
Madoka's characters were good, and so were Kore wa Zombei desu Ka?'s, so let's get that out there before anyone thinks I find Madoka's bad, or "just there" again.
First up, the amount of time there was to develop them. Madoka tried to fit too much into 12 episodes.
Let's go by the girls individually, the amount of time, and their development. First up, Mami.
She was the character that in the initial timeline got involved with Sayaka and Madoka when they saw Homura trying to kill Kyuubey. This was an important thing.
However one of the problems with her is she was killed too early on, leaving me unable to care much for her existence. Did we get to know a little of what she's like? Yes, but not a whole lot because she dies in the third episode. There also wasn't enough backstory on her. IIRC, her wish was related to when she was injured during a war of something. I'd have to go back to remember better.
She also didn't change much from the beginning, we just saw different angles for her in the timeloops.
Not a bad character, but not very good either. Decent at the very least.
Next, Sayaka. Her development was the second best out of all the girls.
She got the most amount of development time out of any of the girls (It took up like literally half the show), though it didn't turn out better than Homura's, despite that being rushed (I'll get there as to why I feel that way when I get on her). However, this was detrimental as it took away time from the other girls, like Mami who had by far the least amount of time.
You saw her change so much from being a typical high school girl to a crazy magical girl, who cracked at seeing the boy she liked with another girl. She ends up basically slaughtering any witch she comes into after that.
She changed Kyoko's character, and Madoka's A LOT when she became bat**** crazy. Clearly not a bad character whatsoever. Removing her destroys the entire show, it's just she took time away.
Next, Madoka.
Her development was rather rocky. How it was done was she was on the sidelines seeing her friends freak out, and crack under the pressure of being magical girls. She herself didn't really do anything that caused her to change, and backstory, we don't get a whole lot. We just see her from different angles in the timeloops.
At the end she shows resolve at doing something (Saving the world by getting rid of witches-but could have made it worse-again third movie), but the way we got there was rather rocky. Part of it was through melodrama-thank gawd this isn't BRS TV, a show who's character development was entirely on melodrama. We didn't see a whole lot of willingness to do something, or initiative to try and become a magical girl much.
Sure she did like one or two times earlier try to become one, and was interrupted, but think about it, why not show more initiative? I get you're only like 14, you're not some typical Shonen hero who's supposed to save the world. Your friends are suffering, and there's only so much an ordinary middle school girl can do. Become a magical girl and try to stop the fighting.
We had certain aspects for her rushed near the end as the other girls were out of the way as they were dead. I didn't get to see what her thought process was other than "My friends, stop fighting!".
Now, apple-eating Kyoko.
Kyoko, her's was rather good because of her backstory, which rivals Homura's. She had gone through so much, and you can very easily tell why she thinks why she does. Her family starved, she ended up becoming poor, her becoming a magical girl led to her father's death, and you can tell why she desires power so much.
However she does change because of how she starts to care more for Sayaka as a result of what happens to her, like when her Soul Gem was thrown on the truck, and Sayaka collapsed because her soul moved too far away from her body. However, we didn't get more time to flesh out her character. What motives did she have at the beginning other than get a ton of Grief Seeds? Why come to just this place after Mami's death (How did she hear of it?). Clearly there must have been something.
Finally, Homura, the supreme Madoka Magica character.
Her backstory was by far the best, but the problem was how rushed it was.
I feel they should have had two episodes back to back on her as we see too many timeloops end too quickly on her.
She was a complete mystery, and bam, you find out everything. I fail to see why episode 10 was "OMG, holy ****!" (It was good, but I fail to see why it was mind-blowing. Maybe I had the wrong mindset when viewing the episode, and if I had this one, maybe I wouldn't have been wowed by The Tatami Galaxy's final three episodes), but it was the episode that made us completely understand her, and put her above so many characters in so many shows.
Though one her plans has a big hole. I'll get to this in the plot hole section.
Now, plot holes (I just feel like pointing these out). Madoka had them like many shows, but these were some big ones. I'm able to look over this stuff, and it doesn't detract from the story, but the enjoyment at times.
-Why does Madoka's potential magical power increase with each timeloop? This is never explained, it's just thrown out there. It seems even the creators themselves don't know.
-Kyuubey, you love doing what you do, making girls into magical girls, having them turn into witches, and other things. You did it entirely through history, but why allow what you did to just disappear? Madoka erased thousands of years of hard labor you did.
-How did magical girls first come into existence when in order for a witch to appear, it has to be through a magical girl? Why did the first magical girl become one in the first place? There weren't witches, and that's the reason why they become one, to fight witches. There's no way witches could already be there from the beginning.
-Killing Kyuubey, in the beginning, Homura seems to struggle to kill him (I'll refer to Kyuubey as a he), yet in one episode he's on a bench, and you just flat out kill him no problem. How did you fail to gravely injure him in the beginning when you tried to prevent this whole mess? You're trying to prevent your best friend from suffering (Though Madoka as we know, indeed suffered, so Homura failed her goal).
Now where is the lack of time here more? Madoka had too many interesting concepts and characters to fit into a mere 12 episodes. I feel if it were 24, and things were spread out more, we'd see better character development as there would be more time, especially in Mami's case. Things also wouldn't seem rushed at times. It would have been definitely easily one of the very best shows I've ever watched.
Madoka's story was about magical girls being different from the norm (Even though this has been done in the past), having a compelling story, and more.
Now, Kore wa Zombie desu Ka?, that show didn't really suffer much from lack of time, especially when you see that sequel doing nothing, and disappointing those who really loved season 1. The entire series is pretty episodic. How in the hell does this season rank higher than season 1 on most sites? It's mind-blowing.
The characters. They have to be looked differently at because of the difference in genre. Madoka is more adventurous, Kore wa Zombie desu Ka? a comedy, that is also slice-of-life much of the time. It's harder to compare.
Ayumu, quite a likable guy, quite hilarious, and you learn fast why he's so protective about Eu.
He was murdered (by Kyoko), and brought back to life by her. He feels he has a big debt to repay her, and not to mention, she's the only person who can really fix him up when he's cut to shreds.
I find his passion towards Eu to be cute (The relationship reminds me of Shakugan no Shana's Yuji and Shana for example), and it's one reason why I liked those final few episodes-minus that last one-so much. Now whether or not he'll hate Eu like Yoruno who hated living too long is yet to be seen.
Eucliwood
Her past, tragic with what she had done.-I need a rewatch to refresh my memory on what. She was well-developed, you could see how she changed from the beginning, and thought the way she did. She doesn't take the word "death" lightly as we've seen much of it. We learn more and more about her later on, especially thanks to Yoruno.
And when she leaves, and the group tries to get her back, oh how that was interesting.
Now the problem with the other characters is you don't get as much backstory (And this is what makes Eucliwood and Ayumu the best characters in the show). This is to be expected from the comedy genre, and you don't get it a whole lot of shows, except for something like The Tatami Galaxy.
It's more of their presence, personality, and what they have to contribute. Haruna, she contributed a lot, it's what leads to the craziness in the show.
She makes Ayumu who he is, a Masou Shoujo.
That power is what he uses to fight, and it's heavily needed in that fight with Yoruno.
And her presence, she's a riot with her jokes and her actions.
Seraphim
Quite likable with her jokes, and her personality. She is quite cold towards Ayumu at times, but others, not so much, especially when the group needs him.
Her goals are a mystery at the beginning. My memory is vague though on what it is she was doing, other than initially trying to bring Eucliwood to her village as problems were happening there.
Kyoko
Ah, the bat**** crazy villain who killed Ayumu.
We don't know too much about her goals, but the conspiracy, it was so interesting. I'm a sucker for conspiracies, so that ends up being part of it.
She tricked Ayumu all that time being in the hospital, but it's revealed she's the serial killer. And when she has that convo with Eucliwood, oh...
Rest coming, just posting what I have now so it's shown I'm at least trying to explain myself.
So, you never get offended? You never get offended when I got all angry over Endless Eight (Which is where these arguments between you and I began)? You even said my thoughts on Endless Eight, and Haruhi in general were null because I apparently don't understand a single thing about the series.
I explained the problem with Endless Eight in our last argument in case you forgot. It overdoes the point, and fails at timeloops by showing you the exact same events (Just from different angles and different clothes) eight times, instead of showing the same main events, but making everything else leading up to those different.
I've seen better, and appreciate those shows that did timeloops better far more than season 2 of Haruhi's Endless Eight.When did I say I don't have bias? Every human being has them. Also the only reason why bias came out is we had someone saying shows are objectively good, and objectively bad, and writing a review with bias is not the way to review, even though it's impossible to review without it if you're human.
Why do you keep bringing up Endless Eight? Every time.
Oh, and timeloops show the same thing every time because it's a timeloop. They can't do much things different in a timeloop if they aren't aware it's a timeloop.
And yes, your opinion on Haruhi is still null and void.
You don't even know how Mami became a magical girl, which was clearly explained. She was in a car wreck with her parents and they both died and her wish was to live.
You completely missed what type of character she was. She wasn't based on melodrama. Madoka is psychologically weak, and she feels useless at most things, even school. That's why she doesn't show much initiative until the end. Along with Homura, she makes the largest growth as a character.
Kyoko is deeper then that, but it requires some looking into it. Kyoko made a wish for another person, and Sayaka did the same. That's why Kyoko says that it was stupid of Sayaka to make a wish for another person, because Kyoko knows the result. It's also why she started to become friends with Syaka, but that friendship didn't have enough time to manifest.
Homura didn't need more than one episode. Why? Her background was an enigma until that episode. We didn't know her motive. It would have felt very dragged if it was more than one. What kind of plot twist takes more than one episode?
Now, plot holes (I just feel like pointing these out). Madoka had them like many shows, but these were some big ones. I'm able to look over this stuff, and it doesn't detract from the story, but the enjoyment at times.
Dear lord, this is also clearly explained. It happened near the end when Kyuubey was talking to Homura. Madoka was the central focus of each timelime, which is why she was so powerful. Kyuubey tells this to Homura, it was essentially Homuras fault why Madoka would be the most powerful witch.
And no, Madokas wish didn't erase Kyuubeys years of work. Energy cannot be destroyed, it just takes another form. The grief seeds were a form of energy which needed to be harvested from witches. But, then there were no witches, so the energy took another form, those giant ghosts at the end.
You bring up a good point on this one, but I won't bother explaining it.
Why didn't she kill Kyuubey in the beginning? Maybe she was sneaking up on him and got discovered so he ran. He calls out for help and Madoka and Sayaka show up. She ****ed up her chance to kill a Kyuubey, simple.
How is it she killed one easily on the bench? Maybe because it was out in the open, and in a park, and he didn't expect it. It was a surprise attack, and it worked well. It was more important for Homura to kill this one than the first one because Madoka was about to make a wish, the stakes were higher.
You say Madoka isn't the first to make such a twist on the Magical Girl genre. But where is your proof? What is it, Nanoha? Sailor Moon? Sakura? Some not so mainstream Magical Girl show that was made in the 1970's before we were born nor have ever heard about unless we were hipsters?
Ayumu is a pervert, how is that cute? He lusts after Eu, his relationship with her isn't only out of dept, he has a sexual attraction to her.
This why I don't take you seriously when it comes to this. Things are clearly brought up and explained but it flies completely over your head. You only skim the surface.
I can only imagine what your thoughts on Evangelion would be. Probably that it wasn't the first to do that to the Giant Robot genre.
Ayumu, quite a likable guy, quite hilarious, and you learn fast why he's so protective about Eu.
He was murdered (by Kyoko), and brought back to life by her. He feels he has a big debt to repay her, and not to mention, she's the only person who can really fix him up when he's cut to shreds.
I find his passion towards Eu to be cute (The relationship reminds me of Shakugan no Shana's Yuji and Shana for example), and it's one reason why I liked those final few episodes-minus that last one-so much. Now whether or not he'll hate Eu like Yoruno who hated living too long is yet to be seen.
Eucliwood
Her past, tragic with what she had done.-I need a rewatch to refresh my memory on what. She was well-developed, you could see how she changed from the beginning, and thought the way she did. She doesn't take the word "death" lightly as we've seen much of it. We learn more and more about her later on, especially thanks to Yoruno.
And when she leaves, and the group tries to get her back, oh how that was interesting.
Now the problem with the other characters is you don't get as much backstory (And this is what makes Eucliwood and Ayumu the best characters in the show). This is to be expected from the comedy genre, and you don't get it a whole lot of shows, except for something like The Tatami Galaxy.
It's more of their presence, personality, and what they have to contribute. Haruna, she contributed a lot, it's what leads to the craziness in the show.
She makes Ayumu who he is, a Masou Shoujo.
That power is what he uses to fight, and it's heavily needed in that fight with Yoruno.
And her presence, she's a riot with her jokes and her actions.
Seraphim
Quite likable with her jokes, and her personality. She is quite cold towards Ayumu at times, but others, not so much, especially when the group needs him.
Her goals are a mystery at the beginning. My memory is vague though on what it is she was doing, other than initially trying to bring Eucliwood to her village as problems were happening there.
Kyoko
Ah, the bat**** crazy villain who killed Ayumu.
We don't know too much about her goals, but the conspiracy, it was so interesting. I'm a sucker for conspiracies, so that ends up being part of it.
She tricked Ayumu all that time being in the hospital, but it's revealed she's the serial killer. And when she has that convo with Eucliwood, oh...
Rest coming, just posting what I have now so it's shown I'm at least trying to explain myself.
She was the character that in the initial timeline got involved with Sayaka and Madoka when they saw Homura trying to kill Kyuubey. This was an important thing.
However one of the problems with her is she was killed too early on, leaving me unable to care much for her existence. Did we get to know a little of what she's like? Yes, but not a whole lot because she dies in the third episode. There also wasn't enough backstory on her. IIRC, her wish was related to when she was injured during a war of something. I'd have to go back to remember better.
She also didn't change much from the beginning, we just saw different angles for her in the timeloops.
Not a bad character, but not very good either. Decent at the very least.
Next, Sayaka. Her development was the second best out of all the girls.
She got the most amount of development time out of any of the girls (It took up like literally half the show), though it didn't turn out better than Homura's, despite that being rushed (I'll get there as to why I feel that way when I get on her). However, this was detrimental as it took away time from the other girls, like Mami who had by far the least amount of time.
You saw her change so much from being a typical high school girl to a crazy magical girl, who cracked at seeing the boy she liked with another girl. She ends up basically slaughtering any witch she comes into after that.
She changed Kyoko's character, and Madoka's A LOT when she became bat**** crazy. Clearly not a bad character whatsoever. Removing her destroys the entire show, it's just she took time away.
Next, Madoka.
Her development was rather rocky. How it was done was she was on the sidelines seeing her friends freak out, and crack under the pressure of being magical girls. She herself didn't really do anything that caused her to change, and backstory, we don't get a whole lot. We just see her from different angles in the timeloops.
At the end she shows resolve at doing something (Saving the world by getting rid of witches-but could have made it worse-again third movie), but the way we got there was rather rocky. Part of it was through melodrama-thank gawd this isn't BRS TV, a show who's character development was entirely on melodrama. We didn't see a whole lot of willingness to do something, or initiative to try and become a magical girl much.
Sure she did like one or two times earlier try to become one, and was interrupted, but think about it, why not show more initiative? I get you're only like 14, you're not some typical Shonen hero who's supposed to save the world. Your friends are suffering, and there's only so much an ordinary middle school girl can do. Become a magical girl and try to stop the fighting.
We had certain aspects for her rushed near the end as the other girls were out of the way as they were dead. I didn't get to see what her thought process was other than "My friends, stop fighting!".
Now, apple-eating Kyoko.
Kyoko, her's was rather good because of her backstory, which rivals Homura's. She had gone through so much, and you can very easily tell why she thinks why she does. Her family starved, she ended up becoming poor, her becoming a magical girl led to her father's death, and you can tell why she desires power so much.
However she does change because of how she starts to care more for Sayaka as a result of what happens to her, like when her Soul Gem was thrown on the truck, and Sayaka collapsed because her soul moved too far away from her body. However, we didn't get more time to flesh out her character. What motives did she have at the beginning other than get a ton of Grief Seeds? Why come to just this place after Mami's death (How did she hear of it?). Clearly there must have been something.
Finally, Homura, the supreme Madoka Magica character.
Her backstory was by far the best, but the problem was how rushed it was.
I feel they should have had two episodes back to back on her as we see too many timeloops end too quickly on her.
She was a complete mystery, and bam, you find out everything. I fail to see why episode 10 was "OMG, holy ****!" (It was good, but I fail to see why it was mind-blowing. Maybe I had the wrong mindset when viewing the episode, and if I had this one, maybe I wouldn't have been wowed by The Tatami Galaxy's final three episodes), but it was the episode that made us completely understand her, and put her above so many characters in so many shows.
Though one her plans has a big hole. I'll get to this in the plot hole section.
Why do you keep bringing up Endless Eight? Every time.
Oh, and timeloops show the same thing every time because it's a timeloop. They can't do much things different in a timeloop if they aren't aware it's a timeloop.
And yes, your opinion on Haruhi is still null and void.
It's where these arguments began, and it's the one I remember the most.
The problem is it showed everything the same time, not those main events like I explained, which were
Yuki being sad, them discovering they're in the time loop, Kyon's sensation in the cafe and at the pool.
Go take a look at The Tatami Galaxy for how timeloops are done. The characters are completely unaware they're in one, yet only a few things are exactly the same. That's how timeloops are, you have main things happen, but the events leading up are different. Again, you have main events, but not every single thing around it isn't supposed to be the same.
The point of Endless Eight was yes
Yuki gets emotions
but it overdid the point. Why do you think Endless Eight is skipped by so many (How many people here on ARM and TGAT have even watched all eight episodes?)? I at least went through with watching the entire thing.
Though really, you just need the main events, not everything else which is practically extra.
You don't even know how Mami became a magical girl, which was clearly explained. She was in a car wreck with her parents and they both died and her wish was to live.
I forgot what her wish was, but I do remember her being hurt. I was going to say she was hurt in a war, but that didn't sound like what really happened when I look at the context of the show.
You didn't even mention the bit at the end when she was in the theater.
Again, I forgot. I was spending a lot of time making my reply, and also rushing to get it out because people kept going "Get it out here already! He isn't even going to explain himself at all...I mean look at how he's dodging the question.".
You completely missed what type of character she was. She wasn't based on melodrama. Madoka is psychologically weak, and she feels useless at most things, even school. That's why she doesn't show much initiative until the end. Along with Homura, she makes the largest growth as a character.
She had melodrama around her. There was melodrama in Madoka Magica, plain and simple. However, it luckily wasn't doing it like BRS TV which destroyed the entire show. In Madoka Magica luckily, it never got so in there it made the show go down in quality.
Kyoko is deeper then that, but it requires some looking into it. Kyoko made a wish for another person, and Sayaka did the same. That's why Kyoko says that it was stupid of Sayaka to make a wish for another person, because Kyoko knows the result. It's also why she started to become friends with Syaka, but that friendship didn't have enough time to manifest.
Homura didn't need more than one episode. Why? Her background was an enigma until that episode. We didn't know her motive. It would have felt very dragged if it was more than one. What kind of plot twist takes more than one episode?
One that takes more time to be understood, explained, and shown.
Dear lord, this is also clearly explained. It happened near the end when Kyuubey was talking to Homura. Madoka was the central focus of each timelime, which is why she was so powerful. Kyuubey tells this to Homura, it was essentially Homuras fault why Madoka would be the most powerful witch.
What I was getting at is why does Madoka's potential increase every single time? After 9000 time loops, her potential would be 9000 more times more powerful than like the 50th time loop. The explanation that just because she's the center of each timeline makes you wonder.
And no, Madokas wish didn't erase Kyuubeys years of work. Energy cannot be destroyed, it just takes another form. The grief seeds were a form of energy which needed to be harvested from witches. But, then there were no witches, so the energy took another form, those giant ghosts at the end.
It erased his work on having witches. Does he even like the form his work has taken now?
Also, but how did witches get there in the first place? Grief Seeds and magical girls didn't pop out of thin air right into history.
Why would the first magical girl become one when there are no witches? I doubt it's just for a wish, because how would she become a witch if she does nothing after becoming one?
You bring up a good point on this one, but I won't bother explaining it.
Why didn't she kill Kyuubey in the beginning? Maybe she was sneaking up on him and got discovered so he ran. He calls out for help and Madoka and Sayaka show up. She ****ed up her chance to kill a Kyuubey, simple.
How is it she killed one easily on the bench? Maybe because it was out in the open, and in a park, and he didn't expect it. It was a surprise attack, and it worked well. It was more important for Homura to kill this one than the first one because Madoka was about to make a wish, the stakes were higher.
You say Madoka isn't the first to make such a twist on the Magical Girl genre. But where is your proof? What is it, Nanoha? Sailor Moon? Sakura? Some not so mainstream Magical Girl show that was made in the 1970's before we were born nor have ever heard about unless we were hipsters?
Madoka Magica didn't do saving the universe, or dark-themed Mahou Shoujo first. Sailor Moon was one of the earliest examples of saving the world, and I keep hearing how Nanoha had dark themes, especially in many Madoka reviews that ask how ground-breaking and original is Madoka?
However I need to see many more shows to confirm how ground-breaking Madoka is, along with those, what did things first? You can't declare it original if you haven't seen everything before it. You can say it was uncommon, because clearly shows like Madoka aren't common, you don't see like 50 of them every year.
Also where is your proof Madoka is original? I remember this. Have you seen every magical girl show made before Madoka?
Ayumu is a pervert, how is that cute? He lusts after Eu, his relationship with her isn't only out of dept, he has a sexual attraction to her.
Of course he would, but why do they have it there? For comedic purposes, that's what his fantasies are for, comedy. Comedy can also be cute, depending on your tastes.
It isn't only out of debt yes, but that's the main reason.
This why I don't take you seriously when it comes to this. Things are clearly brought up and explained but it flies completely over your head. You only skim the surface.
As I've heard, Eva introduced psychological events into the genre first, and it was the first deconstruction of the mecha genre. This having come from veteran anime watchers who've seen 10,000+ episodes of anime.
However obviously I would need to see everything that came before it to see how original it was, they could be spreading lies. I heard Gunbuster (IIRC, that was the first thing Gainax put out) did certain things before Eva.
Now what does this entire argument we had show right here (Inb4tcisanidiot)? I'm being completely honest here. We look at things differently, and our tastes are too different. It's why it's pointless to try to see the other side. Who is right? No one as it's opinions vs. opinions. I stated mine (I even praised the girls of Madoka...a bit, and you said I got them fairly wrong, like I didn't consider them good at all), and look what happens, just like how I'm responding to yours.
People won't try to accept what they can't understand.
I'm really curious to see that Steins;Gate argument Loli told me about, which went on for multiple pages between you guys and Lain. I'm wondering if this is similar to it.
Why I don't go into why is one problem I have is I have far more difficulty than most people explaining why I liked something. It's far more easier to explain why I hated something than loved something. I can explain easier why I hate Hiiro no Kakera far better than why I love One Piece. Though I guess this means I'm not allowed to have any opinion whatsoever, and should turn in my anime fan card.
No, it's pointless to bring up Endless Eight because you only cared about the length and how it's the same content. You already know that I don't agree with the length, but you grossly misinterpreted it's content by being so engulfed with the fact that it's the same content with slight differences that you only skimmed the surface.
Also, but how did witches get there in the first place? Grief Seeds and magical girls didn't pop out of thin air right into history.
Why would the first magical girl become one when there are no witches? I doubt it's just for a wish, because how would she become a witch if she does nothing after becoming one?Alright.Madoka Magica didn't do saving the universe, or dark-themed Mahou Shoujo first. Sailor Moon was one of the earliest examples of saving the world, and I keep hearing how Nanoha had dark themes, especially in many Madoka reviews that ask how ground-breaking and original is Madoka?
However I need to see many more shows to confirm how ground-breaking Madoka is, along with those, what did things first? You can't declare it original if you haven't seen everything before it. You can say it was uncommon, because clearly shows like Madoka aren't common, you don't see like 50 of them every year.
See? You say that Madoka isn't the first to deconstruct the magical girl genre but you yourself can't even come up with information backing your claims. Your claim is baseless.
Your feeble mind can't even see it. Even though it's like five posts down from what you linked.
And Madoka is innovative and original. It took some of the greatest minds in the industry and compiled an original work, with a twist on a genre. I'm not even talking about the whole time-traveling thing.
Well being innovative is to apply a new idea. It can be done to any genre, as long as it hasn't been done before. No one did a twist like that in the magical girl genre until Madoka.
I stated there, that by original I meant not adapted from manga or light novel. It is original in the sense that it is an original work.
What you are interpreting my original is as innovative. Clearly explained. Sailor Moon, Nanoha, and Card Captor Sakura, from what I watched, does not use Time Travel, interstellar magical wish granting beings, or saving the faith of the universe through killing magical girls and harvesting their grief as plot devices.
Of course he would, but why do they have it there? For comedic purposes, that's what his fantasies are for, comedy. Comedy can also be cute, depending on your tastes.
Ayumu's comedy is not cute comedy. Does Ayumu fantasizing about Yuu make you go DAWWWWW? Nichijou, Lucky Star, Strawberry Marshmallow, Acchi Kocchi, Azumanga Daioh, Yuru Yuri, Yotsuba & Shinryaku! Ikamusume are cute comedy.
Now what does this entire argument we had show right here (Inb4tcisanidiot)? I'm being completely honest here. We look at things differently, and our tastes are too different. It's why it's pointless to try to see the other side. Who is right? No one as it's opinions vs. opinions. I stated mine (I even praised the girls of Madoka...a bit, and you said I got them fairly wrong, like I didn't consider them good at all), and look what happens, just like how I'm responding to yours.
People won't try to accept what they can't understand.
See, you're doing it again. I'm trying to understand your opinion, but you bring up all sorts of crap, without ever explaining yourself.
And it's not pointless trying to see the other side. Try applying that logic to other things, like war. According to your logic, it's pointless to see what it's like to have another country invade yours and kill it's citizens.
How can you say that you're open minded if you don't try to understand our opinions? You just hear it and leave it, that's not understanding.
I'm really curious to see that Steins;Gate argument Loli told me about, which went on for multiple pages between you guys and Lain. I'm wondering if this is similar to it.
.
