The GTP Unofficial 2020 US Elections Thread

GTPlanet Exit Poll - Which Presidential Ticket Did You Vote For?

  • Trump/Pence

    Votes: 16 27.1%
  • Biden/Harris

    Votes: 20 33.9%
  • Jorgensen/Cohen

    Votes: 7 11.9%
  • Hawkins/Walker

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • La Riva/Freeman

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • De La Fuente/Richardson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Blankenship/Mohr

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Carroll/Patel

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Simmons/Roze

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Charles/Wallace

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 15 25.4%

  • Total voters
    59
  • Poll closed .
I think Trump is establishing a face-saving strategy for his anticipated loss in the GE by promoting the idea of "mail-in voter fraud". At the same time, the hope is alive among Trump followers that the 2020 election will turn out like the 2016 where "the polls were wrong' (even though they weren't actually that far off). This is reinforced by the reality that Biden's a pretty weak figurehead for the Democrats. However, the ways in which he is weak are entirely different from the ways in which HRC was weak & the circumstances are quite different. Trump now has a record to run on ... & it's a terrible record.

Either way, I don't think Trump really cares, as long as he emerges with his self-image intact. Blaming the media, fraudulent voting, the coronavirus - the most important thing to him is to be able to deflect responsibility from himself.
 
I think Trump is establishing a face-saving strategy for his anticipated loss in the GE by promoting the idea of "mail-in voter fraud".

He's not simply speculating that it's going to happen, he's actively setting it up to happen.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...19f1f4-d1d0-11ea-8d32-1ebf4e9d8e0d_story.html

Washington Post
As President Trump ramps up his unfounded attacks on mail balloting as being susceptible to widespread fraud, postal employees and union officials say the changes implemented by Trump fundraiser-turned-postmaster general Louis DeJoy are contributing to a growing perception that mail delays are the result of a political effort to undermine absentee voting.

...

DeJoy, a North Carolina logistics executive who donated more than $2 million to GOP political committees in the past four years, approved changes that took effect July 13 that the agency said were aimed at cutting costs for the debt-laden mail service. They included prohibiting overtime pay, shutting down sorting machines early and requiring letter carriers to leave mail behind when necessary to avoid extra trips or late delivery on routes.

The new policies have resulted in at least a two-day delay in scattered parts of the country, even for express mail, according to multiple postal workers and union leaders. Letter carriers are manually sorting more mail, adding to the delivery time. Bins of mail ready for delivery are sitting in post offices because of scheduling and route changes. And without the ability to work overtime, workers say the logjam is worsening without an end in sight.

...

In Michigan, which is gearing up for its Aug. 4 primary, election administrators said they have fielded complaints from voters who had not yet received their ballots as of this week. Election clerks are advising voters to drop off their ballot Tuesday rather than sending it back via mail, out of fear that the ballots will not be returned in time to be counted.

...

Among the changes is a new, strict cutoff time in the morning for mail carriers to pick up items to deliver that day, several postal employees from three different states said.

The machines that typically sort mail and prepare them for pickup by carriers are being shut down earlier in some areas to cut costs, requiring carriers to sort more mail by hand once they arrive in the morning.

That means any mail that is not ready by cutoff time waits at least another day. And if there is any error in hand-sorted mail, it needs to be rerouted to another carrier — which could lead to three to four extra days of waiting. As a result of these changes, guaranteed shipping dates are not being met, the employees said.

“This is forced. These are things that don’t have to happen,” one worker from Pennsylvania said.

...

The mail delay comes as election officials across the country are struggling to process a crush of absentee ballots driven by the pandemic.

A delay in delivering ballots to voters and then returning them to election officials could cause people to be disenfranchised — especially in states that require ballots to be returned by Election Day, voting rights experts warn.

Already, tens of thousands of ballots across the country have been disqualified in this year’s primaries, many because they did not arrive in time.
 
The problem with Trump's argument is, the data is completely against him. There is no proof that mail-in voting is a direct cause of mass voter fraud. In the 2016 presidential election, there were only 500-600 verifiable instances of fraud, compared to nearly 120,000,000 total votes casted. So yes, voter fraud will likely always be a thing, but it does not nearly occur in a high enough frequency to meaningfully affect the electoral process.

But then again, his supporters will eat up anything Trump throws at them, regardless of what the data suggests. Yet these are the "facts over feelings" people blatantly ignoring the real facts. I hope that at least some Republicans will wake up and realize that voter fraud is not a credible threat to the election and not fall victim to Trump's propaganda.
 
He's not simply speculating that it's going to happen, he's actively setting it up to happen.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...19f1f4-d1d0-11ea-8d32-1ebf4e9d8e0d_story.html

So often it seems that the answer to "what should we be doing right now" is "the opposite of what Trump wants/says".

The problem with Trump's argument is, the data is completely against him. There is no proof that mail-in voting is a direct cause of mass voter fraud. In the 2016 presidential election, there were only 500-600 verifiable instances of fraud, compared to nearly 120,000,000 total votes casted. So yes, voter fraud will likely always be a thing, but it does not nearly occur in a high enough frequency to meaningfully affect the electoral process.

I'm guessing that 500-600 includes fraud related to non-mail-in ballots.
 
My definitely probably fraudulent mail-in ballot has been requested. Let the games begin! :lol:
 
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Every Hispanic undocumented immigrant will vote by mail this year, and that will be precisely the only reason why Trump loses the election! If only the damn wall was built, then problem solved!
 
I cannot begin to describe how unsettling it is that you actually believe this.
I am sure most of you won’t think these are good things, but let’s look at what he has accomplished.

He lowered taxes on all Americans that earn enough to pay them. My rate dropped, my bosses’ rates dropped, the company I work for rate dropped.
I am old enough to remember before covid, and by every metric the economy was booming. He achieved record unemployment numbers for black, Hispanic, and Asian Americans.

He Opened up ANWR and approved pipelines the Obama administration wouldn’t.

He started the Space Force.

He got us out of the Paris Climate Accord.

He signed the VA Choice, and the VA Accountability Acts.

He got NATO allies to spend more on defense.

He got us out of NAFTA and negotiated trade deals that were better for our country. He’s making better trade deals for us with countries all around the globe.

He moved the American embassy from Tel Aviv to Israel’s capital.

He has had his agencies cut tons of regulations. I want to someday walk into Home Depot and see all the crappy 2.5 gpm showerheads labeled as “Low Flow” again, and I want to walk out with a real showerhead, one that will peel the skin off my back.

I could go on and on, but I will stop now to avoid a TLDR situation.

Oh yes it certainly will. Remember, Biden is incompetent to serve, and his purpose is only to be elected and for the VP to serve.
citation needed
Have you listened to the guy?

I can't tell if you think this is a bad thing or a good thing. I think it's a bad thing - antagonizing people for no reason is a poor character trait (and yet is a cultural value of Trump conservatives).
I don't think it is a good thing. His biggest character flaw is being a jackass, but I think most of the world is kind of used to that by now.
 
For everything Trump has "accomplished" (seriously the tax cut was rediculous, I make six-figures and saw pretty much nothing), he's done far more to hurt America. I mean take away his inability to communicate properly, his underlying racism, he rapey past, and everything else that "Trumplicans" says the left criticizes him for, and you're still left with a man who's tried to undermine the Consitution every chance he's gotten for four years.

And almost every Republican has gone along with it because they're either too afraid or too stupid to understand anything.
 
:lol: Sorry but what have they accomplished exactly?
Oh, come on. They're just getting started. The US government has over 2000 satellites, and US companies have god only knows how many.

A Space Force was inevitable at some point. Trump got it done.

@Joey D if you made 100k, you saved $4000 a year.
 
I am sure most of you won’t think these are good things, but let’s look at what he has accomplished.

He lowered taxes on all Americans that earn enough to pay them. My rate dropped, my bosses’ rates dropped, the company I work for rate dropped.
While he did, albeit very slightly, cut taxes for the middle class/upper middle class, the cuts are only temporary. Once they expire in five years your tax rate will be even higher than what it was before Trump took office. The only people who saw meaningful deductions to their taxes were the 1% and corporations; their tax cuts were much more significant and more available deductions were added as well Also, why must cutting taxes be a good thing by default? You know, our ever-expanding government (we are spending more and more each year under Trump, so no, he's not a "small government" kind of guy), which includes our $740,000,000,000 annual military budget which conservatives drool over, has to be paid for in some way. Where do you think that money comes from? It's no coincidence that our debt and deficit has gone up at a faster rate under Republican presidents than Democrat ones on average, because Republicans are the ones who tend to cut taxes. I'd rather see tax rates go up on the upper middle-class, the wealthy, and the corporations, in exchange for high quality government services, such as universal healthcare, free public college, universal pre-K, massive investments into our K-12 education system and infrastructure, etc, rather than have lower taxes and get growing wealth inequality, seemingly endless wars, and bailouts for big business in return, like we already have now.
by every metric the economy was booming.
Yeah, no. A "strong economy" is more than just record high stock prices, which almost exclusively benefits the rich and upper middle-class at the end of the day. Cost of living is continuing to go up for the average joe. For many professions, wages are either completely stagnant, or are only rising at that's lower than the inflation. We have a record level of wealth inequality under Trump; billionaires are amassing obscene amounts from wealth while most Americans are not seeing any meaningful real-wage increases, or are even getting poorer.
He achieved record unemployment numbers for black, Hispanic, and Asian Americans.
I love it when Trump supporters whip out this talking point as if it's proof that the economy is the best it's ever been, or that he is in fact not racist. DO you not know what a boom-bust cycle is? We are over ten years out of a recession, so unemployment for all Americans is very low, and come next recession, it'll go up again, and then down again. And unfortunately, many of the jobs that were taken by Black and Hispanic unemployed people are menial jobs, not middle-class or high-income. Poverty and underemployment still remains a serious issue in minority communities, and the Trump administration has not done anything meaningful to address the root causes of poverty.

Also, how much control does the President even have of that? It's not as if Trump put forward a set of policies specifically aimed at targeting unemployment in minority communities.
He Opened up ANWR and approved pipelines the Obama administration wouldn’t.
You really think that the Dakota Access pipeline was an accomplishment? It's an environmental disaster, and was built on sacred Native lands, thus many Sioux tribes protested since the pipeline serves as a direct threat to their way of life and water supply.

He started the Space Force.
As @DesertPenguin mentioned, what exactly did this accomplish?
He got us out of the Paris Climate Accord.
Since you list this as an accomplishment, I honestly ask you, do you believe in human-caused climate change? I agree that the Paris Climate Accords wasn't perfect, but Trump pulling us out of it with no replacement is the opposite of an accomplishment.
He has had his agencies cut tons of regulations.
Again, I'm not sure how this is an accomplishment. You realize that regulations are not arbitrary and exist for a reason right, oftentimes to ensure quality, protection/accountability for the average American, and to limit corruption and environmental damage? Trump cutting a slew of environmental regulations, for example, may be beneficial for economic growth in the short term, but be harmful ecologically in the long run. Want to know another "regulation" that the Trump administration cut? Net neutrality. ISPs rallied hard against net neutrality because without it, opens the door for more profits for them, yet it screws over average Americans like us.
His biggest character flaw is being a jackass
Hey, at least you admit that Trump isn't totally flawless. I guess that's a start.
 
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I am sure most of you won’t think these are good things, but let’s look at what he has accomplished.

Oh boy.

He lowered taxes on all Americans that earn enough to pay them. My rate dropped, my bosses’ rates dropped, the company I work for rate dropped.

How's the deficit looking because of that? Aren't Republicans the party of fiscal responsibility? Or does that only apply when a Democrat is in office?

I am old enough to remember before covid,

:rolleyes:

and by every metric the economy was booming. He achieved record unemployment numbers for black, Hispanic, and Asian Americans.

Until you also recognize that much of that "boom" was already happening under Obama, I'm not really interested in that conversation.

He Opened up ANWR

Yeah, I'm definitely not going to join you in rejoicing the destruction of some of our last wild places.

and approved pipelines the Obama administration wouldn’t.

The most notable of which is still not approved. So where's the success here, exactly? (I mean, I know where it is - the victory was in not letting the Keystone line pollute the largest aquifer in the nation, but from Trump's perspective, he's done nothing but lose on that front.)

He started the Space Force.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

He got us out of the Paris Climate Accord.

Yep, anytime it's you, Iran, and Turkey standing against the rest of the world, that's a sure sign you're going the right way.

He signed the VA Choice,

If by "he," you mean President Obama in 2014, then you're correct.

and the VA Accountability Acts.

The VA itself has admitted that this was a failure.

He got NATO allies to spend more on defense.

That had little to do with Trump's ignorant whining on the matter.

He got us out of NAFTA and negotiated trade deals that were better for our country.

Even the Cato Institute, a Koch brothers' venture for gods' sake, doesn't think that the USMCA was an improvement over NAFTA. In fact, they call many aspects of it "missed opportunities." Again, the Koch brothers!

He moved the American embassy from Tel Aviv to Israel’s capital.

How exactly was this a benefit to the US? What has been gained from this move, other than reaffirming the GOP's rabidly anti-Islamic stance?

He has had his agencies cut tons of regulations. I want to someday walk into Home Depot and see all the crappy 2.5 gpm showerheads labeled as “Low Flow” again, and I want to walk out with a real showerhead, one that will peel the skin off my back.

Me Chrunch. Me need shower head that wastes water to own the libs. Me big man!

--

Oh yes it certainly will. Remember, Biden is incompetent to serve, and his purpose is only to be elected and for the VP to serve.
citation needed
Have you listened to the guy?

I'm pretty sure Danoff was saying a citation was needed for the part I've bolded, not the claim of incompetence.
 
The only people who saw meaningful deductions to their taxes were the 1%
The 1% got a 2.6% cut, someone who makes $100k got 4%, and I got a 3% cut.

Also, how much control does the President even have of that? It's not as if Trump put forward a set of policies specifically aimed at targeting unemployment in minority communities.
Cutting taxes for corporations, and small businesses encourages economic growth. That works for everyone. Thus the record unemployment numbers. Kennedy did it, Reagan did it, Bush did it, and now Trump has done it. Works every time.
You really think that the Dakota Access pipeline was an accomplishment? It's an environmental disaster, and was built on sacred Native lands
I don't recall seeing that disaster on the news.
Leftist: There is no god! Also leftists: sacred Native lands!
I honestly ask you, do you believe in human-caused climate change?
Climate change happens. You think the Vikings landed on a snow covered island and named it Greenland? (51st state!)
Yeah, I'm definitely not going to join you in rejoicing the destruction of some of our last wild places.
2000 acres?
ANWR-map.png


If by "he," you mean President Obama in 2014, then you're correct.
Citation needed
Even the Cato Institute, a Koch brothers' venture for gods' sake, doesn't think that the USMCA was an improvement over NAFTA. In fact, they call many aspects of it "missed opportunities." Again, the Koch brothers!
Globalists all.

Me Chrunch. Me need shower head that wastes water to own the libs. Me big man!
I don't shower with libs. I just want a shower like the house I grew up in.

I remember, I was about 11 or 12. We went to the Kentucky state fair. They had a demonstration showing a normal shower head, spraying into an aquarium, comparing it to a new water saving shower head spraying into an aquarium. Their sales pitch had nothing to do with water conservation, it was just about saving on your water bill. It was the 70's and Carter's economy sucked.
If water is scarce where you live, I can understand the restriction, but if there is plenty of water, why not get wet?
 
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The "you first" bit was unnecessary and childish but okay. I'm 31. It's a simple question.

Fun Fact: The fall of the Berlin Wall was my 1 year birthday present. I was born on the day that Germans call the Day Of Fate.
 
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Here ya go, straight from Congress' own website. It was signed into law in 2014. Trump did sign an extension of the already-existing bill in 2017, though.

C'mon @Chrunch Houston, don't run away.

You got caught claiming something Obama did as a success for Trump. Because he has publicly taken credit for it. Because this is what the man does - he blatantly lies to his supporters, and none of you can ever be bothered to verify any of it. But as someone who constantly moans about the so-called "fake news" everywhere, you ought to have something to say now.
 
C'mon @Chrunch Houston, don't run away.

You got caught claiming something Obama did as a success for Trump. Because he has publicly taken credit for it. Because this is what the man does - he blatantly lies to his supporters, and none of you can ever be bothered to verify any of it. But as someone who constantly moans about the so-called "fake news" everywhere, you ought to have something to say now.
You may have me on this point. Was it set to expire?
 
I am sure most of you won’t think these are good things, but let’s look at what he has accomplished.

He lowered taxes on all Americans that earn enough to pay them. My rate dropped, my bosses’ rates dropped, the company I work for rate dropped.
I am old enough to remember before covid, and by every metric the economy was booming. He achieved record unemployment numbers for black, Hispanic, and Asian Americans.

He Opened up ANWR and approved pipelines the Obama administration wouldn’t.

He started the Space Force.

He got us out of the Paris Climate Accord.

He signed the VA Choice, and the VA Accountability Acts.

He got NATO allies to spend more on defense.

He got us out of NAFTA and negotiated trade deals that were better for our country. He’s making better trade deals for us with countries all around the globe.

He moved the American embassy from Tel Aviv to Israel’s capital.

He has had his agencies cut tons of regulations. I want to someday walk into Home Depot and see all the crappy 2.5 gpm showerheads labeled as “Low Flow” again, and I want to walk out with a real showerhead, one that will peel the skin off my back.

I could go on and on, but I will stop now to avoid a TLDR situation.

Have you listened to the guy?

I don't think it is a good thing. His biggest character flaw is being a jackass, but I think most of the world is kind of used to that by now.

Do you really not see that what Trump did was take a stable & expanding economy & further goose it by lowering tax rates & interest rates. The result was an exploding deficit at a time when the deficit & the national debt should have been going down. Fiscal responsibility? Trump didn't care at all, because his only concern was looking good & trying to get growth rates above 2%. He has zero interest in the longer term ramifications of his policies. And the GOP - you know the Obama-deficit-hating GOP - followed him without a word.

Now that Covid has ravaged the economy, the US is printing money & increasing its indebtedness in a way that dwarfs what Obama did during the Great Recession. It will have consequences for the US economy far into the future.
 

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