The Happy New Year Enduro - 2 Hours 30 minutes of BrnoPS4 

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THE
HAPPY NEW YEAR ENDURO
2 Hours 30 Minutes of Brno

January 7th 2023


PROGRAM

6 PM - Free Practise

(30 minutes, day time, two weather slots: cloudy/light rain)


6.30 PM - Qualifying
(30 minutes, night time, one weather slot: clear weather)


7:00 PM - RACE
2h30 minutes, full 24 hour cycle
four weather slots: dry, wet, dry, dry (specifics tbd)



brno-track-map.png

Nissan.jpg


1 - EVENT SETTINGS

A) LOBBY AND RULES/PENALTIES
  • Private Lobby - Invite only
  • Fill vacant slots with AI - Yes (16 cars on the grid regardless of how many human players)
  • Wait for race ready - On
  • Rules & Penalties - On
  • Track Limit Penalties - On
  • Allowable Time Penalty - 30
  • Drive Through Penalties - On
  • Pit Exit Penalty - On
  • Competitive Racing License - On

B) RACE AND REALISM SETTINGS
  • Track is "Brno"
  • Rolling Start
  • Allow Auto Start Engine -Yes
  • Force Interior view - No
  • Force Driving Line Off - No
  • Force Default Setups - No
  • Force Manual Gears - No
  • Force Realistic Driving Aids - No
  • Allow Anti Lock Brakes - Yes
  • Allow Traction Control - Yes
  • Allow Stability Control - No
  • Damage Type - Performance Impacting
  • Mechanical Failures - Yes
  • Allow Ghosted Vehicles - Yes
  • Force Manual Pit stops - Yes
  • Pit Stop Errors - No
  • Tire Wear - Accelerated
  • Fuel Depletion - On
  • Force cool down Lap - Yes

C) WEATHER:
  • Weather will change during the race and at least part of the race will be under wet conditions.
  • An approximate weather forecast will be given to all competitors as soon as Free Practise begins.

D) TIME OF DAY
  • Will be accelerated to simulate a 24 hours cycle, so there will be day, night, day

E) HUMAN DRIVEN CARS
  • Race will be multiclass, with GROUP C and GTO cars sharing the track.
  • Human driven cars must be GROUP C (any of the available cars), unless at least 3 entrants state their preference for racing in GTO (if this happens you can choose any car with the following exceptions: NASCAR car, IMSA Audi, IMSA Nissan. None of these cars have headlights and you'll need headlights for this race)
  • All players must start the race but all can, at any given time, give their car to AI control. To do this, you must use the pop up menu (that is activated while racing using the D-Pad) and set the "SWAP DRIVER" option to "ON". When you do this, the next time you go to the pits the AI will take over the car after it has been serviced. You will still be watching your car being raced and you have control over what you are seeing, you can change or adjust your pit strategy, change the brake balance, etc, And most importantly you can call the car back to the pits. When you do so, and if you want to regain control of the driving, be sure to set the "SWAP DRIVER" again to "ON". And the car will be yours to drive after being serviced.
F) AI DRIVEN CARS

  • The field will, regardless of how many human entrants, always have 16 cars, the AI will fill all available slots. Skill and Aggression levels will be both set at 100, so they won't be slow. Be careful around them and don't act as if they are just inconvenient pushovers, more often than not when an AI car collides with a human-driven car, it is the latter that comes off worse. Worry not if they're quicker than you at some points during the race. AI's strategists are from the 2022 F1 Ferrari team, they'll make a mess of it under changeable conditions and either pit too soon or too late or put in the wrong set of tyres ...)

G) Random words of advice (consider this a pre-race briefing)
  • DAMAGE is set to Performance Impacting so ... be careful out there!

  • PITS are fully manual. This means you will still be driving your car inside the pit lane, and you must be the one parking it in your pit stall. It is best if you don't have a "pit limiter" button set because then the game will activate the limiter for you (same happens with headlights and windshield wipers, but people usually like to have full control over them)

  • SETUPS are open. Since there are many cars available and I don't even know yet what we will use I can't tell you what works or not. But keep in mind these few pointers:
    • Fuel - Use your own testing to understand how much fuel you use per lap and do the math to minimize time lost in the pits. Whatever the case I suggest you start with a full tank and work how many liters to add in the number of stops you must do (keep in mid that rain starting and/or stopping may trigger a non-fuel related visit to the pits, so take that into account also)
    • Tyres - Soft or Hard (grip vs durability) is a VERY debatable option, and remember we'll have degradation set to accelerated. Testing is required. Again remember you'll need wet tyres at some point.
    • Downforce - Again ... there's give and take here, between grip and top speed. However I think that, unlike Le Mans, Brno is a circuit where having strong downforce is both the safer and the more effective bet.
    • Brake Balance and Engine Braking - depending if your base-setup is Stable or Loose you may want to tweak the default setting to your liking in totally different ways. Just remember these two settings are probably the ones that have the greatest impact on how the car behaves (unless you know how to setup suspensions and other more difficult stuff, but I don't usually touch any of that).
    • Brake ducts and Engine cooling - I close them up a litle - supposedly they will heat more but the top speed increases. Never had problems with brakes overheating but with the engine you'll want to be careful, or else the car will lose power and the pits will last longer.

  • STRATEGY - Correctly choosing when to change tyres, when to pit according to their wear or weather conditions, how much fuel to add, what to do about damage (the headlights must always be fixed, and there's possible engine damage depending on how you drive and whatever setup you created) is crucial in a long race.
    • ALSO ... please make sure you understand how to set your RACE STRATEGY in the pre-race screen and most importantly how to change, adjust, switch to another, while in the actual race. I know sometimes the game can deceive us but most of the time I do believe we are the ones doing things wrong. Don't believe in anything related to the word "Default", don't trust anything that uses the word "Recommended", most probably the game will act stupid and keep your slicks just because the track isn't wet enough when you pit. So, go for FULLY MANUAL ON EVERYTHING. You've been warned ...

  • PRACTISE AND QUALIFYING - You don't have to take part in either of these (but REMEMBER: to be able to enter the race you must enter the lobby at least 5 minutes before the end of the quali session!)
  • I'm setting these sessions up so the ones that can show up early have the track, with the proper settings, at their disposal.
  • My objective is that the time we all spend every monday (since when we show up early for some friendly practise and until all the races are finished, around 10 PM) is about the same we will spend in this event.
  • So, I will open the lobby and send out the invites at 6 PM, and the lobby will remain open for the entire event (practise, quali, race).
    • Practise will be conducted during the day and will give you both dry and wet conditions so you can try them.
    • Quali will be dry, but will happen entirely during night time so everyone gets used to that environment also

  • RACE - This one you must enter (and as stated abover, to enter the race you must be in-lobby before the end of quali!) Please remember that even if you decide to not drive in the closing moments of quali you will still need some time to load the track and check your car setup, set your pit stop strategy(ies) and make sure you are indeed ready for the race that lies ahead.




Racers invited, please state your interest, and also which of the dates available (friday 6th or saturday 7th of January) is more convenient to you:
@IfAndOr
@Madbigdog
@half_sourly
@Napalm_LT
@richroo
@Pantheons
@GTP_RPREGO
raeggee
@Zolon32
@Oldbass47
@beachboy6658
@John Wells
@xeronima
@tal
jmprego
@Maxmusmonster
@Don Mejillone
@Saltyjoe90
@AndreasR
@jammy21
@slthree

As stated above, any other gtplanet forum members that might be interested in this, just post about it and you'll fill any available slots (first come, first serve)
 
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Hi Mario. The 6th would work better for me, and I'll be using the... to be announced.

I will adopt the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" approach to set-up, since anything I do would be quite likely to make things worse. (And I would make an appeal for performance effecting damage too, but I do understand that some don't enjoy getting really ****** off by dumb AI wrecking their motor.)
 
friday 6th or thursday 7th of July
July? I can't plan for that far away. Perhaps January and also perhaps Saturday? 😉

Friday would possibly be better for me. Saturday could be doable.


And I would make an appeal for performance effecting damage too
That's not too bad on a long race like this one. You have time to get to the pits, get repaired and carry on. It's on shorter races I don't like it because a pitstop then would mean there's not much chance of recovering positions (or even catching up). Brno is also nice and wide so erratic damaged cars are easier to avoid.
 
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Allow Ghosted Vehicles - Yes
Once you've confirmed the date I will try to attend.

Re quote, does that mean in the race you can drive through other cars, or does ghosting only apply to practice, or practice and qualifying?

If in race then damage settings matter less.
 
Ok @IfAndOr, I'll use the July slot for Le Mans then! :P

@Zolon32 I went for performance impacting damage in the Nurburgring race and was talked out of it due to the length of the lap. Noticing the sorry state of Duarte's Porsche at the end I regretted my option :D. In any case having damage is how I prefer this so if there isn't an outcry over it that's what we'll do!

@half_sourly I guess if both days are ok then Saturday (7th) is best, that way nobody is in stress to get home after a day's work.

Edit- maybe @IfAndOr has a better grasp of how this works so he may correct me but my understanding of the "allow ghosted vehicles" options is that it only applies to cars that are behaving in an abnormal way (like stopped in the track immediately after a crash, or going in the wrong direction), this meaning that they are "solid" in normal race condition. I can test this further but surely don't want us to be racing against "ghosts"
 
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it only applies to cars that are behaving in an abnormal way (like stopped in the track immediately after a crash, or going in the wrong direction)
Yes it's this. I usually have it switched on to avoid some of the problems of sim racing. You can still crash into stationary cars though, it depends on what the game thinks is problematic.

I still haven't figured out what happens in practice and qualification when sometimes you can drive through slower traffic and sometimes you can't. To be on the safe side I usually avoid possible contact.


Do you want some weather settings Mario? I'd love to have a fiddle in the options since I haven't done that for awhile. We've been very dry recently. With 2½ hours to play with I expect I could come up with something interesting. 🙂
 
But of course Paul, you're very welcome to help figuring this out. My objective is a setting up a race that starts dry, lets say a overcast mid afternoon, and a litle after night sets in we'll have rain, rain stops during the night so at dawn the track should be damp but drying. Race ends dry ... or not (still to be decided, but information will be full and transparently given with a few days to spare, or else I'd have to refrain from racing because I knew more than the rest of the field)

The aim is of course to make race-strategists of us all ;)

@Zolon32 I just re-read your post and noticed you would prefer Friday. Let me know from others but if you can tell us if you can't Saturday at all or if it is a question of time constraints. Saturday not being a working day my guess is that we can race sooner than our usual, maybe practise starting at 5 PM and race at 6 PM UK time (sooner than that its not possible for me). But if you totally can't Saturday than I guess we can do Friday in our usual schedule. Let me know

Edit to add a "Merry Christmas One and All" !!! :cheers:
 
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Dry, wet, damp, dry and maybe wet again? Okay I'll work on that, I should be able to get something near. Not sure about the timings though, they'll probably be slightly random - which is good because you can't strategise exactly then.

🎄 🎁 🎉 🎈 🎋 🎊 🧨
 
Hi @PANDACoff33 you're welcome!

if my calculations are correct we have 11 entrants now:

1. Flat Twelve
2. raeggee
3. IfandOr
4. half_sourly
5. hartur
6. Hun200kmh (Duarte)
7. Zolon
8. GTP_Rprego (hoping you get your new pedals)
9. Napalm
10. Jmpa_Prego
11. PandaCoff33

Not sure about @slthree and haven't heard from anyone else so far.

Meanwhile, I just conducted a weather and car classes test and streamed a bit of it. Here's the preview in case you're interested in checking it out. I think the main class is chosen (Group C), still in doubt about the secondary class (not very important now since the human field is so important in a 16 car grid)

 
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@jammy21 that's a pity, a driver of your quality in the grid always makes us push a litle more (to try and keep up I mean ...) ! ;)

So, now I have updated the First Post, but for those that can't be bothered to read it all to find the news and changes, here's a summary:

1. Date is set - Saturday 7th January 2023
2. Hour is changed (considering it is saturday we can all start a litle sooner), proceedings will start at 6 PM UK time, race at 7 PM
3. weather slots are fixed as "dry/wet/dry/dry" (more on that below)
4. Damage has been changed to "Performance Impacting"
5. Cool down lap reinstated - not even sure why that one was on "No"
6. Car classes are decided - Group C (any of the available) + GTO (only to be used by humans if 3 or more state interest in chosing that class. Not all cars available in this case, check the first post)
7. AI level is set - 100 skill / 100 aggression


Entrants (so far):

1. @Hun200kmh (Flat Twelve on PSN)
2. raeggee
3. @IfAndOr
4. @half_sourly
5. @tal (hartur on PSN)
6. @Madbigdog (Hun200kmh on PSN)
7. @Zolon32
8. @GTP_RPREGO (on condition of getting working pedals)
9. @Napalm_LT
10. Jmpa_Prego_f
11. @PANDACoff33 (don't know your PSN handle, send me a friend's request so I can invite you)

Interested but pending confirmation
12. @slthree
13. @Maxmusmonster

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Now that all informations are given, some thoughts about the weather. With @IfAndOr help and expert counseling ;) I think the race's conditions are set in a very interesting way. We have come up with a system that changes weather slots every 30 minutes (give or take a few, the exact moment of transitions may vary and that is of great importance here).
Those slots finer details aren't yet decided (clear to overcats in dry slots; light rain to heavy thunderstorm in the wet slot), but they will be organized as follows:
1. Dry
2. Wet
3. Dry
4. Dry

Since the race is 2h30 minutes long, slot 1 (dry) will kick in for a second time around the 2 hour mark. So this means the race should end at the end of 3 consecutive dry slots, right?

RIGHT?

Well ... NO. Since the exact moment of change between slots is variable (the 30 minute thing is just guidance), we may very well find ourselves (or not, but the possibility is real and must be "equated") in a situation where approaching the last few laps suddenly rain comes and the track becomes fully wet.

And let me tell you my motorhead fans ... I'm no Michael Masi, no Eduardo Freitas and certainly no Jackie Ickx!

So, whatever happens YOU decide if you pit with one or two laps to go, or if you brave the rain with slicks.


For you all to understand the relevance of all I am writing here please take a look at the video below. It is an offline race with the exact settings we will have. I started it and pitted immediately at the end of lap one, retired the car and let the AIs have at it. Watched for a while then went to bed. This morning went to check the result and there it was, you can see it for yourselves (go the last 8 minutes or so of the race)

 
I'm thinking the Nissan R89C might be the one for me. Perhaps not the fastest but I like the way it handles. There's so many colours that it's difficult to decide but I think I'll take number 23.

During a quick bit of testing I mistakenly added the group 6 cars as the other group, and they were actually a quite good alternative. They kept up for a short while and then fell back. The reason I mention this is that they have headlights whereas any AI driven GTOs without headlights might be a bit of a hazard because you can't see them approaching at night, especially in the rain. Just something to consider.
 
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@slthree good to have you for this one! 👍

@IfAndOr mixing group 6 and group C is an historical heresy ... that's the reason I ended up with GTO ( also considered group 5 and group 4 but decided against them for the same "historical" reasons)
 
Does anyone in the group have a CSL GT DD Pro wheel?
I know @xeronima as recently bought one but he unfortunately hasn't been around for a while (connection problems). I'm not sure if any of our Portuguese friends have one.

I have considered a GT DD, and a new wheel in general, but haven't got beyond thinking about it yet. Since it's a big outlay I'm not sure sure what to do. That doesn't help with your question at all though. 🙂
 
This morning went to check the result and there it was, you can see it for yourselves (go the last 8 minutes or so of the race)
I might be missing something, or failing to understand something regarding the replay Mario, but I see that the display indicates that the AI driver's slick tyres remain warm in the wet conditions. My experience is that slicks cool down very quickly in the wet, and wouldn't grip anything like as well as those of the AI car do.
 
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I might be missing something, or failing to understand something regarding the replay Mario, but I see that the display indicates that the AI driver's slick tyres remain warm in the wet conditions. My experience is that slicks cool down very quickly in the wet, and wouldn't grip anything like as well as those of the AI car do.
I had the same thought; it was chucking it down for a good few laps and their slicks did great. Was expecting a pit frenzy. Meant to check if that grip in the wet would be available to me too but haven't yet.
 
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@Zolon32 , @half_sourly

Remember they are AI, they do have some superhuman powers in the rain anyway. 😉

I think what you're seeing as "chucking it down" is actually exaggerated by the external trackside camera. If you look the cars are actually racing on a dry line until almost the last lap. There's very little spray from them until then with the track temperature remaining above 30°C keeping the tyres relatively warm and the track dryer. During the night time rain period they pit much earlier because the track is a lot cooler. Mario is setting it in January!

The slow rate of change the weather system is using means the dampness should only increase gradually. Because the timing is somewhat random in the actual race it might vary slightly, earlier, later or not at all - therefore choice of whether or not to change onto wets will have to be made on the fly.
 
@Zolon32 and @half_sourly I am unable to do any further testing or check on anything until next tuesday but I think in "monitor" view you don't get to see the shape of the other cars' tyres, be it their wear or temperature. You only know what kind of tyre they are using (interestingly you are able to know how much fuel they have).

In any case and even if the AIS are able to drive in the wet with great consistency (not making mistakes) they do get a lot slower and that you can see in the last few laps, where they (because the programming told them it was too late to pit) did the last couple of laps between 10 and 15 seconds slower than their previous pace.

Now, if we imagine that the last 3 laps of the race will be exactly as it happened in this one, make your own risk and pace calculations to decide whether to stick it out or pit like a scared toddler (won't say a girl because I'm not sexist) to get wet tyres!

Jokes aside, it really is a gamble. Not just a question of pit time versus laptime, (imagine you are 1st 50 secs ahead with 2 laps to go, it's not even a question) but also a question of having damage ON and risking it all because the car became undriveable in the last lap.

If I don't write again today, wish you all a Happy New Year! :cheers:

Edit - also what @IfAndOr said! 👍
 
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pit like a scared toddler
I think you'll find me in full toddler mode*. I prefer chasing to being chased anyway, and when it's being chased whilst trying to keep the car straight on rapidly cooling slicks in the wet, knowing that the chaser is running fresh grooved rubber, then I've got no chance of keeping my cool.



*without the rattle out of pram bit.
 
Any suggestions on tire saving?
I'll be honest SL, I don't know of anything that can slow the tyre wear in this game to any great degree. However, the approach I take is:

I have my tyre sound turned right up, and try to keep its noise to a minimum when driving.
I deliberately avoid that thing where my front wheels are already slipping, and I apply more lock to compensate.
With powerful cars I avoid harsh throttle application until the front wheels are straight.
Finally, I pay scant attention to the "state" of the tyres as reported by the wear/heat graphic. It's very easy to convince yourself that the tyres are clapped out, when in truth they have plenty of grip left to offer.

I know it's a cliche, but the old adage "slow is smooth, smooth is quick" does apply quite often.
 
I'll be honest SL, I don't know of anything that can slow the tyre wear in this game to any great degree. However, the approach I take is:

I have my tyre sound turned right up, and try to keep its noise to a minimum when driving.
I deliberately avoid that thing where my front wheels are already slipping, and I apply more lock to compensate.
With powerful cars I avoid harsh throttle application until the front wheels are straight.
Finally, I pay scant attention to the "state" of the tyres as reported by the wear/heat graphic. It's very easy to convince yourself that the tyres are clapped out, when in truth they have plenty of grip left to offer.

I know it's a cliche, but the old adage "slow is smooth, smooth is quick" does apply quite often.
Good advice. Thank you

How many laps do you figure before needing to pit and change tires?

Short of doing a two and a half hour race myself, I'm wondering if I have to pay for fresh tires before the rain and then have to pick again for wet tires or is the first set will take me all the way to the rain.

EDIT: I believe the race parameters for multi-class were if three people were going to use a GTO car.

When will we know if you have three people to use a GTO car? I did a little practice saying with both classes today
 
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I find this track very harsh on tires. Any suggestions on tire saving?
To add to Mr Zo's advice.

I haven't tried it out but I'd say one set of tyres should last until the first spell of rain. The race is set in winter and it will start to go dark, both of which will help to keep them cooler and thus wear less.

After the rain it will get trickier to judge when to swap back to slicks and also for how long they will last because it'll be getting warmer (and whether you need wets again).

Although the left front does take more of a hammering if you're hustling the car along quite quickly, overall, back to it being January, I don't think tyre wear will be too bad.

And also since I'm usually a default setup chap I'm not sure if tweaking the tyre pressures help. Or suspension or steering or indeed anything in all those settings!

*One other thing to note about tyres is that if you you have a break and swap to your AI driver "he" can often get though a set of tyres quite quickly which can ruin any race strategy you might have. You might need a new set when you swap back.


And a Happy New Year all.
 
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