The impact penalty: good or bad?

  • Thread starter Thread starter SuntoucherUK
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I think the new impact effect would get us dizzy and prevent us from hitting the wall. :) I'm just concerned about the a.i. bumping me into the wall and I have to wait 10 seconds to catch up. đź‘Ž
 
redhed17
Polyphony001, if you don't like reading similar sounding posts, you're on the wrong site. :)
If it's specifically this thread, don't look at it anymore. :) It's that simple.
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Sorry, is it just me, or does everyone here take what i say a little too seriously? I quite clearly made out that i wasn't angry, just slightly bugged.

To add something to the debate, i think that the impact penalty, if on in the GT mode races, will completely change how i play the game, as though i don't randomly go hitting the walls like an idiot all the time, i do occasionally use their comparatively low-speed-loss collisions to my advantage.
 
redhed17
I really hate the penalty system in Prologue, so much so, that it has put me off playing the game. It can be so unfair the way it is implemented.

There is no intelligence to the system. A car hits you, you hit the wall, you get the penalty. If you were in the position of the car making the first contact, you would probably have got a penalty. But the computer cars can bash about off cars, off walls, off you, and continue at their current speed.

If they're not going to implement damage, or the apparent consequences of contact. Then don't bother with a penalty system that trys to cover for bad AI.


Hopefully when the game comes out, the AI will be improved, and the penalty system will be confined to the online part of the game. And if not, it'll have the option to turn the penalty system off. Otherwise it could ruin a great game.
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Is it really THAT bad?? Well first of all, I've playing prologue for a while now and I can honestly say I rarely had a panelty because of AI cars crash into me or something like that, usually it is because of my own mistake. I did make an effort to avoid AI cars.
 
I hope so. It sounds like it can be the bring down of GT4.
 
Learn to keep your car off the walls and off the AI cars

And damage?

Lets say we are in a 2 hour enduro and in the first turn 2 of the AI cars make contact and crash hard.

What do you got then? just 3 AI/human racecars to race against for the next hour

Sounds real fun
 
Or, how about doing an endurance with 100 laps and crashing 2 laps before the end!

sounds suicide-inducing.
 
Polyphony001 wrote;
Sorry, is it just me, or does everyone here take what i say a little too seriously? I quite clearly made out that i wasn't angry, just slightly bugged.
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That's what the emoticons are for. To help get the message you posted received the way you meant it.

You can bet that in a text based medium (especially in English), that if a phrase can be taken in more than one way, it will be. :)


If things turn out badly with the impact penalty, I'm hoping the AR Max I bought for GT4P will come to my rescue. :rolleyes: ;) :)
 
I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this but it could be that the ten second penalty may not be in the final game. As described by Amar212 in his post on the BMW Series 1 demo when colliding with a barrier the screen shakes and blurs and you lose control for a while. http://gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=46215&page=2&pp=20 explains it
Maybe the ten second penalty will be in the Online side of the game to stop people ramming each other off the road in a fit of pique.
Aside from that the only thing needed in GT4 is some sort of penelty to stop people cutting corners!
 
Well from what I recall yeti posting, cutting corners will actually be detrimental instead of advantageous now, as it should be. As for the AI doing stupid things and colliding with you, that happens a lot in real racing, it's just up to you to dodge if at all possible. Michael Schumacher was nearly taken out twice at the European GP, a race which saw Takuma Sato crash into Rubens Barrichello's barge-board, and teammates Ralf Schumacher and Juan Pablo Montoya collide at the first turn.

The point of retirements is well made, even if they were in though, it's a lot less painful for us to restart a race than it is a real driver to wait for the next race or even next year for their chance - these things just happen.

The collision effect was discussed at E3, and will likely feature, as for the current penalty system, we're going to have to wait and see.
 
Eagle
Well from what I recall yeti posting, cutting corners will actually be detrimental instead of advantageous now, as it should be.
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Can you point me to his post, or explain what you mean. I would like to see corner cutting eliminated, but I don't see how. At the moment you have free run of the track and can drive anywhere, including backwards down the track.
 
Thanks, I did look in the current thread.

Interesting idea about having the lap time wiped, if you leave the track. That could be applied to wall rubs/hits etc as well. đź‘Ť

While touching the grass in Prologue makes the car much harder to control than it used to, I don't think running through the gravel slows you enough to stop people doing it. Fuji is a good example, there is a chicane that can be cut, and there is also a run off at Corner B which is tarmac so it would not slow anyone down.

I still think that all times should be supported with a replay, then there is no doubt.
When racing online, I only accept defeat by people who provide replays anyway :)
 
Hmmm... I was gonna say... I thought that was TheCracker and not me...

Fuji is slightly different in the fact that it has two service roads that allow you to cut the corners... if these were all grass then it would not be beneficial to your lap times...

Especially if the car is a race car... perhaps the shopping trolleys suspension might allow it to work...

C.
 
Yes if the service road was grass, you wouldn't be able to turn at the end. I still think a zeroed/wiped lap time would be the easiest way, then you would have to return to the start/finish to start the clock again.

Yeti, have you had the McLarenF1 with no TCS on the grass at speed? :crazy: That car is certainly at a disadvantage on grass, in fact I think it goes faster sideways :lol:
 
Oh yes... without TCS and Driver Aids that car is a monster... touch any grass and the back just steps out instantly and almost everytime spins the car out... There's a reason why that car has traction control!!!

But how would a zeroed/wiped lap work in a race with cars in it?!

You couldn't wipe a lap cos you went on the grass cos that happens in racing and people carry on fine...

C.
 
Good point...in a race a zeroed lap is no good. I was really thinking of timed flying laps.

Well how about putting some of those stinger strips the police use on the grass where corner cutting goes on...or maybe just some broken glass ;)

Seriously though if it was an online race, the corner cutter, if it was to his advantage, ie. he gains a place, could be disqualified at the end. And by concensus his time disregarded. This could be achieved through good will, or maybe even a system where the other racers press a button to vote on fellow drivers as to whether they judge them to be fair.

If you came off the track by acccident, and gained no advantage, your place would still stand.

I doubt that any sytsem to stop cheating will be implemented by PD, but it wouldn't take long for a certain racer to get a bad reputation and you could just avoid racing with them.
 
Some kind of driver feedback system could be implemented... However that would probably get abused by poor losers who would give bad feedback to the winner...

I like the idea of reviewing any offs that any driver has had at the end of the race and people voting if they should be downgraded a place or something...

But as you say... I doubt PD would implement this in many ways...

The could however implement a game room which had licence test rules and if you end up off track then you get disqualified...

C.
 
Disallowing laps didn't feature in real races in what I suggested, it was just to help with the Weekly Race Series for when you set a blistering lap that eclipses your previous session best, and you can't save anything but the bogus lap because you slipped one too many wheels off the island.

I think shortcutting where it's deliberate should be punished, I think systems where you report bad drivers get abused and wind up pointless, I think the voting system would also get abused, n00bs could band together to vote you down for nothing, it's quite awkward.
 
Tacet_Blue
Interesting idea about having the lap time wiped, if you leave the track. That could be applied to wall rubs/hits etc as well. đź‘Ť
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:ouch: That's a much a target for modulation as the impact penalty itself, for just for a split second getting all four wheels off the track but then recovering it shouldn't really wipe your lap time. But then i suppose to improve, you need a perfect lap, :)

Pardon me, i was missing a forward slash for a minute there!
 
Does anyone play other online racing games like PGR2 and Race Driver 2 or a Formula 1 game? What happens there if you cut corners, take short cuts etc?

I'm not sure if it is possible to program some kind of penalty for cutting corners without also penalising people who spin on a corner and lose 3 or 4 positions and then get back on track. There's a lot to take into consideration. Maybe KY is relying on people to behave themselves online and not to cheat. :)

Maybe after a race if someone has cut corners and driven unfairly you can choose to not race against them in the future, a kind of ignore list. In time those who play stupidly will have no one to race against. That may work as a deterrent.
 
That's a bloody good idea, actually! Though it may significantly reduce the number of people there are to play with... But who cares? There'll be millions as Gt4 will be so great!
 
I like the ignore idea best, but in all honest PD should be doing it's best to make tracks which don't allow you to cut anyways.
 
Well, in the street circuits like New York, Tokyo, Seattle etc cutting corners are virtually impossible. At best you can ride the rumble strip very hard, but you're in danger of losing control of your car. Real life circuits, of which there are supposed to be quite a few, have run off areas. Kaz could alter them, put barriers in the way but it would'nt be right.

Having an ignore list (as well as a buddy list) could work, though maybe with online nicknames people give themselves they could change it and try again, I guess. A way around that would be having a profile where all your cars, race results etc are kept (it would also let more than one person use the game with one memory card - just add a new profile). The name of that profile is your online name too.
Still, people who just want to ruin it for other people may still find a way round. Maybe the shame of being ignored would be enough to change their ways! :lol:
 
only in multiplayer mode their should be penalties, it'll drive me insane if i got in trouble for bumping some slow computer opponent out of the way!!!!
 
well, in real life u cant just bump someone because they are in your way. maneuvering around ur opponent and waiting for the right time to attack are all parts of racing. This you will learn soon. đź‘Ť
 
If the AI are improved it then I will accept a bump penalty. If it is like GT3 where they just slam it to you then I would be pissed if they penalize me for slaming back. I can't count the number of times I've chosen a wierd line or braked very late to scoot past an AI only to have them run the same line and smash me into a wall.
 
Yeah same here xcsti.. But I also think the AI should get the penalty if they do something similar.
 
One thing they need to implement that would help is have the run off areas really slow the car down. IE if you go into the kitty litter, IRL most times the cars get stuck... so for GT, just slow em down to a max of 10 mph until they're out. For the grass sections... maybe make it really easy to spin the car, and to prevent course cutting, putty those pesky sand runoffs in the shortcut, to eliminate all advantage.

Another aspect that is used in real racing, if you cut off part of the track and improve your race position you are black flagged for a drive through penalty... apply the same thing in GT. If you cut the course and gain positions, you are assessed a stop and go or drive through penalty your next lap.
 
phantasm
For the grass sections... maybe make it really easy to spin the car,
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Eh in GT3 the cars spin easy enough on the gras and dirt, atleast mine do. I think making them spin easier would be unrealistic and jsut dumb. What if you get bumped of the track by a competitor? Then you are screwed cuz now you can't get back on the track cuz you spinning while you try to get back. Unless the car has like drag slicks it ain't gunna slip and spin on grass, even then the grass would hafta be kinda wet.
 
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