The New Toyota Supra Vs. Its Key Rivals, By The Numbers

Discussion in 'Cars in General' started by GTPNewsWire, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. GTPNewsWire

    GTPNewsWire Contributing Writer

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    Danoff, AgentBlackDog and marcvic like this.
  2. ferhound

    ferhound

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    So Nissan is better?
     
  3. MrWaflz55

    MrWaflz55

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    Slower acceleration, worse interior, a decade old. Not entirely better.
     
  4. turismoslayer

    turismoslayer

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    When did the 370Z start packing a straight 6? Unless you meant it’s straight packing 6 cylinders.
     
  5. zdenko

    zdenko

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    Doesn't look so flash now that it is all written in numbers. Most hyped car of the decade.
     
  6. R1600Turbo

    R1600Turbo Premium

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    370 is a V6... ;)

    Edit: I see it was just fixed.
     
  7. SlipZtrEm

    SlipZtrEm Administrator

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    We have no idea what you're talking about... ;)

    (Fixed — it was right in the charts!)

    Eh, I think the GT86 is enough proof that numbers don't always tell the whole story. A GTI will murder it in a straight line, but the experience behind the wheel in the Toyobaru is a whole different ball game. Until we get behind the wheel — which will be happening :D — it's hard to really pass a verdict.
     
  8. Murcie_LP640

    Murcie_LP640

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    The Supra also doesn't have a DCT, it's the ZF 8-speed.
     
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  9. R1600Turbo

    R1600Turbo Premium

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    Based on what I know about the next Z, Toyota will need to up their game a bit. I just hope the new Z doesn't jump that high in price.
     
  10. FT-1

    FT-1 Premium

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    I know you're not allowed to give specifics, but it sounds like A) There is a successor to the 370Z on the way and B) It's not going to be a Crossover. Both of which are fine by me! ;)

    If it does end up using the 400hp V6, it wouldn't surprise me if it does jump to the $50,000/£50,000 price range. Excluding the Corvette, it would offer the most respectable hp/cost ratio.
     
  11. R1600Turbo

    R1600Turbo Premium

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    Might be a possibility. :cheers:
     
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  12. dice1998

    dice1998 Premium

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    I'm curious on why the Corvette was used and not a Camaro SS. Great article nonetheless!
     
  13. CarreraGT

    CarreraGT

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    Is it just me or do the Supra's acceleration figures seem a bit optimistic? 10hp less than the Cayman S (albeit with 20% more torque), 472 extra pounds but faster to 60mph? Also the time stated for the Cayman S is for the PDK, not the 6 speed manual (Porsche claims 4.6s for the manual).

    Also 3,460lb is awfully heavy for a car with a shorter wheelbase that a GT86...
     
  14. Eunos_Cosmo

    Eunos_Cosmo

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    They are all 2 seat sports cars. Only the Mustang is an outlier, and that's because Ford doesn't have anything closer.

    I have a feeling Toyota has setup the Supra's gearbox to excel at 0-60 runs. From a rolling start, I'd imagine a C7 Corvette would freight-train the Supra. Additionally, all the other competitors (except the Alpine) have models or variants above them in performance and price. Meaning, for instance, Porsche is not going to go out of their way to make the Cayman S dash to 60mph in a surprisingly fast time, because that makes the argument for the 911's higher price a little tough to explain. They've geared down or otherwise created space between the Cayman and base 911 since the beginning. The same is less true for the others, but I think still valid. The Supra, on the other hand, can be rated as optimistically as Toyota wants without fear of jeopardizing sales on any other models. A 7AT Nismo 370z should be just as fast in the real world, I would estimate.

    As an aside, the whole 0-60 test is years beyond usefulness. It should be replaced with something more telling of the driving experience. Like initial 10 second average accelerative force in Gs. I doubt very many people care specifically how fast their car gets to 60mph, they care more about how fast it feels. It's not just a semantics thing either, it has genuine negative effects. The manual transmission is it on it's deathbed and one of the reasons is that manuals are slower to 60mph. They don't feel any slower (all things equal) in gear during acceleration, but they suck at this test. Also, manufacturers really try to game the 0-60 test and will gear their cars to get the fastest time even if it means the car isn't geared very well. Take the 86/BRZ. Prior to the facelift, the rear axle ratio allowed for the car to hit 60mph in 2nd gear. But that meant it felt undergeared in most driving situations. The facelift brought with it a 4.3 rear axle ratio. Presto, the car feels like it always should have, punchy in the 20-40mph range. But now it will only hit something like 56mph in 2nd gear, which means it looks slower on paper! It doesn't matter if it's faster to 50 AND 70mph, because the arbitrary 60mph target is king. If you accelerated the car from a standstill to it's top speed, and then averaged out the acceleration forces at 10 seconds, 20 seconds, etc (or whatever) it would be apparent that the new car FEELS faster, even if it hits 60mph in a longer mount of time. #endthe60 #rant
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
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  15. jblackrevo9

    jblackrevo9

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    The Bullitt has a higher top speed then Gt and Supra.

    Mustang does 0-60 in 4.2 sec and has 420 torque at 93 octane. Who wrote the article?

    Gt top out at 157 mph and Bullitt is 8 mph more.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  16. Sander 001

    Sander 001

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    Oooh I love charts!
     
  17. decks01

    decks01

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    Look like a mazda rx8
     
  18. SlipZtrEm

    SlipZtrEm Administrator

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    Like @Eunos_Cosmo suggested, we tried to keep it to two-seaters. The Mustang is the exception, and it's also quite similar to the Camaro, so we left the latter out.

    On a similar note, we forgot the closest related sibling: the M2 competition. Over in the UK even that will be slightly cheaper than the Supra, which I'm guessing will fuel more than a few comparo tests.

    Huh, Porsche USA's website says 4.4 for the manual, with or without the SC package.

    I wouldn't doubt in that case Porsche is protecting the 911 a bit.

    Yeah but everything else is bigger: the engine, the suspension, the wheels. It's also quite a bit more luxurious inside.
     
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  19. Naveek Darkroom

    Naveek Darkroom Premium

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    The Alpine A110 is a pretty tempting proposition if they actually sold it here.

    The 370Z might not be bad but it's really old. The Supra would probably win unless the next Z packs the 3 liter turbo from the Infiniti Q50.
     
  20. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    Don't confuse 0-60mph with 0-100km/h, which is 0-62mph. Porsche does indeed claim 4.6s for the manual... from 0-62mph. Industry standard - and I personally hate this - is to subtract 0.2s from the 0-62mph time for 0-60mph, and indeed Porsche USA, which uses 0-60mph rather than 0-100km/h used in Europe, Japan and Australia, has the 4.4s claim.
    It's right there in the first post.
    mustang-bullitt.jpg
    That's via JATO Dynamics, the industry standard body both in Europe and the USA. The US-market car is slightly different from the European market car - in fact it has a little extra power (480 vs 459, on the same 93MON/95RON fuel; 529Nm is, for reference, 390lbft) - but as it seems to no longer be US market industry practice to give either 0-60mph times or top speeds, I went with the verifiable UK figures. Yes, that made it awkward to find the Corvette figures too, but I did it.

    Any 0-60mph time you've seen for the US-market Bullitt is as tested by a magazine or other outlet, rather than from the manufacturer. Ford does mention the 163mph top speed of the Bullitt in pre-release literature, as an 8mph margin over the 155mph GT (both disagreeing with your figures; yes, I can show you the press releases), but thereafter there's been no mention of it. Perhaps it's in the owners' handbook?
     
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  21. CarGuru

    CarGuru

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    Psst.... Nissan, this is your chance to make a new Z with the Infiniti 3.0t and undercut the Supra.
     
    Supaboost likes this.
  22. -Fred-

    -Fred- Staff Emeritus

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    Wouldn't the M240i be even closer competition, both in price and performances?

    Actually, come to think of it, the M240i is cheaper, has the exact same engine and can be equipped with a 6-speed manual... And it has a back seat and most likely a bigger trunk.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
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  23. crooky369

    crooky369

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    The Alpine looks the best on paper for me. Not lardy and unnecessarily overpowered like so many cars these days.

    A mere 1.8 but still properly rapid and also it's the best the brand does, its their flagship car and that means more coming from a Alpine than a Toyota or a Nissan.
     
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  24. HuskyGT

    HuskyGT

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    Whoa! The Cayman comes with a 4 cylinder now?! I did not know that. Is this a Porsche-made engine?
     
  25. McLaren

    McLaren Premium

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    Beyond the reasons listed by Slipz & Eunos, the Corvette likely starts out as Chevy's prime competitor all things considered.

    The SS starts at $42,995 & you'd have specifically tack on the $7,000 1LE Track Package to get as close as possible to a Supra in pricing/performance. This option then puts the SS on pace with the Stingray in multiple categories.

    $49,495 vs. $55,900.
    455Bhp vs. 460Bhp.
    0-60: 4.1 vs. 3.9 sec.
    1/4th: 12.5s vs 11.5s
    Laguna: 1:37.78 vs. 1:38.28
    VIR: 2:54.80 vs. 2:53.80
    Willow Streets: 1:20.67 vs. 1:24.55
    MT Figure-8: 0:22.90 vs. 0:23.90

    The Camaro performs a little better than the Stingray on circuit tracks whilst the Stingray has the advantage in straight line speed. But, in the fairness of comparing what you get right off the assembly line vs. the that & tacking an extra box to boost performance, the Stingray is probably the better starting point.
     
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  26. Eunos_Cosmo

    Eunos_Cosmo

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    Just because I'm curious, what is the tire size & model on the 1LE vs the Stingray?
     
  27. McLaren

    McLaren Premium

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    According to MotorTrend, the Corvette has Michelin 245/35ZR19 front & 285/30ZR20 summer rear run flats standard. The Magnetic Ride Control changes the tires to 35R19/30R20.
    The 1LE has Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3 285/30R20 & 305/30R20.
     
  28. Eunos_Cosmo

    Eunos_Cosmo

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    Yeah I get the sense that, on equal tires, the 'Vette would be comfortably faster around basically any given racetrack. If the times were that close with the C7 on run flats, that's actually pretty impressive.
     
  29. McLaren

    McLaren Premium

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    I looked up the Grand Sport & up out of curiosity myself, didn't know Corvettes equip Michelin run flats (285/335) across the board unless you get a Z07/ZR1 Track Pack options. Then the tires are bumped to Pilot Super Cup 2s.
     
  30. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    Yep. Boxer four turbo. You can get a six, but only on the GT4 and GT4 Clubsport.