The Next Gran Turismo Could Feature More "Offline" Gameplay

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by GTPNewsWire, Apr 2, 2019.

  1. Elitekilla29

    Elitekilla29

    Messages:
    2,166
    Location:
    United States
    This is what a lot of racing titles need to realize. Unfortunately they continue to go down the esports route. People just wanna get on the game and have fun. Not everyone is interested in esports.
     
  2. evldave333

    evldave333

    Messages:
    214
    Would love a more traditional GT game, sport mode is something I really cant be bothered with. I get alot from beating my own lap times, I dont really care for leagues either. Crucially I dont want a fun drive to be interupted by muppets & penalties of any kind just makes me swear lol. To make online more popular the scheduling of races needs to be sorted, waiting about for a race to start is boring. It looks like theyre realising with all the useage data, that the vast majority of folks play it offline. Some features need no online element at all, purchasing/painting cars in particular. I just see GT Sport as a long running beta for a true GT7, hopefully it will be vast with whole lot more tarmac! Just a thought but how good would an open world map be with GT's awesome physics engine...
     
  3. Venster

    Venster

    Messages:
    904
    Just adding leaderboards to time trials for each class and track would add so much replay value and would be welcomed by many imo.

    I really enjoy the online racing but sometimes really enjoy the pressure free environment of just yourself on track.
     
  4. karelpipa

    karelpipa

    Messages:
    1,701
    Location:
    Czech Republic
    I am already saving money for PS6 ;)


    Please remove the 2 minute countdowns and im in :D

    Exactly my reason. Only good racing you can have is when you have established community with rather small number of drivers (tens of drivers at max). Then you can ''teach'' them to race properly after some time. - Almost Impossible with any automated system.

    GT1/2 had pretty aggresive AI, but they could still work on it.
     
  5. Majorwolf72

    Majorwolf72

    Messages:
    271
    Location:
    Germany
    Nicely and Japanese politely said, Kaz :lol: „From the bottom up...“ :bowdown: A well known, blonde American politician would have said: „OK, I do see the need for content for those who suck at the game...“

    Oh,but dare you drop a gitgud bomb in one of the threads here, then all hell brakes lose! There you have it, from the Master himself: Offline Mode is for those who can’t drive well enough for online competition. If we create more offline content maybe one day they might be good enough and try to dip into the online fray.

    All I‘ll say in the future is: Kaz said it all. No need to elaborate. :cheers:
     
  6. YoBuck

    YoBuck

    Messages:
    89
    I’m not sure why you would be saving that for a new game unless it’s because the AI is so bad it’s unworkable with this game withought a massive rewrite and does anybody at PD have the skills to pull that off let alone the resources.
    They could start by making time trial proper with regional and world live rankings.
     
    O_Maverick_O likes this.
  7. YoBuck

    YoBuck

    Messages:
    89

    Steady on the Trollolo there bruv
     
    sanrensho likes this.
  8. BallPtPenTheif

    BallPtPenTheif

    Messages:
    1,245
    Location:
    United States
    It's not about developers thinking that everyone wants to race online. It's about how their development of the online racing environments were always hamstrung by primarily developing a title for offline/single player gameplay.

    Online coding has to be far more efficient with physics models while being capable of constantly sending data packets and syncing game states with peers. In the past, games would take all of the offline content and essentially try to port it all into an online game mode. Developers would literally have two development tracks, developing two video games at the same time using the same asset pools (characters, maps, etc). Sometimes developers would literally hire an entire other development studio to take their offline/single player assets and rebuild an online version of their game trying to match them as close as possible.

    Under this design model the online port/version would always be inferior and too inefficient for real competitive racing. For this reason, Polyphony decided to stream the development workflow to just online game development and then use that structure for offline game modes. They knew that doing this would be a drastic departure and that most of their efforts would be barely noticeable for most players but they knew they had to rip the band aid, so to speak, if they ever wanted to reach their competitive aspirations for their game.

    Now that the game engine is done and the heavy lifting is over, they can go back to building out the kind of cohesive and progressive single player game experience that their core audience loves all the while still developing in an online forward workflow. So the next iteration of the game should have the best of both worlds.
     
  9. Sage Ages

    Sage Ages

    Messages:
    12,119
    Location:
    United States
    If they do this, people will just get bored eventually and go back to complaining about grinding. I would rather they add in some more offline events instead, preferably on the more lucrative side.

    Of course, "why not both" is always an option.
     
  10. UnclanGIJeff

    UnclanGIJeff

    Messages:
    1
    I think they should take a long hard look at their original design summary for Gran Turismo and ask if they're still delivering that concept. The original idea was to be able to drive real cars. Experience real cars. I want a vast library of cars, including obscure ones(Vector, TVR, etc) and slow ones. Every day ones. Just cars to experience. Then massive "cities and towns" to drive around in and experience these cars in. That's all.
     
  11. DPereira_2909

    DPereira_2909

    Messages:
    188
    Location:
    Portugal
    Great idea. It would be great if the made sport mode like an online racing career, while also improving the offline to levels where you would play the game non-stop just for offline alone.
     
    grainqey_5yj and YoBuck like this.
  12. Majorwolf72

    Majorwolf72

    Messages:
    271
    Location:
    Germany
    No trolling here, bro, I totally support the offline-lovers! If you don’t like online - don’t do online.

    It just thrills me that Kaz is referring to the two worlds in an up and down order. Because I constantly repeat that you can’t possibly become a skilled driver „competing“ against that crappy AI. But I‘m getting shot down for it. Guess no one will argue with Kaz though...
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
    NotThirdReich likes this.
  13. Jay84

    Jay84

    Messages:
    260
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It SHOULD be ffs. This should have been called "Gran Turismo online" Seriously how many full Forza games have come and gone and all we have had on ps4 is THIS.
     
    palqo likes this.
  14. Progress823

    Progress823

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    United States
    Sadly I have no interest in FIA events for two reasons:

    1) Lack of user suspension tuning (I specifically mean suspension - no gearing or engine power tuning as this has always been a flaw since GT5 with online racing): even in actual racing, the driver gives feedback to their crew and adjustments are made on the fly. We cannot do this to prepare for the race?

    2) Horrid BoP: the BoP has improved (I know that statement is an oxymoron) but is still horrid. As each BoP updated is released, a new Meta is born. Perhaps a BoP by track system should be implemented as cars will be balanced by their performance at each track.
     
  15. dabz343

    dabz343

    Messages:
    446
    Fingers crossed, but from the looks of it, PD does not seem to know where the future is in offline content...just look at GT League. Discouraging to say the least.

    Imo, GT Sport should have always been centered around the casual player base, with an imaginative content strategy, that links to a novel eSport feature that ushers in the next PS5 era. It could have been, and still can be, the place to begin one's motorsports hobby/career.
     
  16. TheEvstar93

    TheEvstar93

    Messages:
    441
    Good. That's what you want from a Gran Turismo game. Don't get me wrong, racing against others online is great but we need something to do when we're not doing that.
     
    Draggon likes this.
  17. ARTAsean

    ARTAsean (Banned)

    Messages:
    1,308
    Let’s unpack these 2 separate issues. If you have zero interest in online multiplayer racing, that’s fine and I hope the next GT is to your liking.

    However, assuming that most people in Sport Mode and FIA races are aliens, and/or you’ll have to devote all your game time to be competitive, is just wrong. Not only is it wrong, but you’re doing yourself a huge disservice by having that mentality!

    Even at the SR:S level, I would comfortably say usually 1/3 of the grid are worse than AI. If you consider yourself even remotely good at Gran Turismo, you’ll find yourself at an above average rank in Sport Mode. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve lapped people in only a 20 minute daily Race C. What does that tell you about Sport Mode players? lol.

    Sport Mode is structured quite well for even the most casual of players, and I find it hard to believe a proper racing game fan won’t enjoy it to some degree. I didn’t think I would enjoy Sport Mode (and I still do vastly prefer lobbies) but man, it’s given me some fantastic memories. what a blast!
     
  18. queleuleu

    queleuleu

    Messages:
    2,873
    I think the next GT will be the return of the golden era. How many premium cars were highly requested for years : Supra, AE86, E30, F50 and so on (and probably many more in the pipeline). Good signs IMO. For many of us, GTSport is probably not the GT that we wanted but it's a great polished game. Something we haven't seen since GT5 prologue.

    Sure, the racing games market is now a niche genre, though I'm sure a great GT could do wonders in terms of sales.
     
    HarVee, sirjim73 and Animedeaf like this.
  19. akira3d

    akira3d

    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    United States
    I'd probably attempt to participate in FIA series if they didn't hold weekday races during my work hours or weekend races in the middle of the day. They require much more of a time commitment than the Daily races, so they really should offer more points of entry if they want to increase participation.

    But who am I kidding? I am definitely a DR "B" SR "S" level driver...won only a single Sport Mode race in 170 attempts and that was after a series of mishaps in races that dropped my DR temporarily to "C". Most of my races aren't even podium finishes...I've learned to be happy just finishing in the top half of the field (which is a much different mentality than from what I was used to from playing offline racing games).
     
    grainqey_5yj likes this.
  20. MMX

    MMX Premium

    Messages:
    2,055
    Location:
    United States
    I think you missed my point, about getting a job in racing. I didn't mean treating the game like a job to get good. I meant competing in FIA events, in the hopes of becoming a real race driver. I'm 48 years old, so even if I was stupid fast at the game, I'm past the prime for real racing, on a pro level.

    You're also doing too much assuming. I've run Sport mode, and while I'm not an alien, I can hold my own. I have a B/S rating, and only ran 20 races, winning 4 of those. So being slow, or not competitive is not the issue. I just don't enjoying racing a bunch of strangers, that treat me like I'm the AI in GT League. I do participate in casual lobbies, with mostly people I know, and have been online racing with since GT5P, but that's once a week at most.

    I don't condemn online, Sport mode, or FIA events. People enjoy that, so more power to them, I hope PD keeps supporting it. Doesn't mean I have to participate. It also doesn't mean they should abandon offline, and neither should I have to.
     
    Rinsky, palqo, Fosterions and 3 others like this.
  21. BallPtPenTheif

    BallPtPenTheif

    Messages:
    1,245
    Location:
    United States
    You're simply reiterating the same point that I responded to. They're core goal was not simply to try and pivot the entire GT audience to online racing. They simply had ambitious online marketing and esport goals that could not be achieved under the past production workflow of building a single player forward racing experience. GT Sport was a foundational re-coding of the game so that they could focus development on an online forward version of the game that could more easily be structured for offline single player content.

    eSports will always be a promotional aspect of any game design in order to give players a longer engagement with the property thus keeping them in the game's economy for a longer period of time. This is how games make money now and if your game has any eSport angle to it, you would be foolish to not fully support that aspect of your title.

    Additionally, Kaz has been very explicit that he sees his team's roll as the Pide Piper of the motorsports world continually attracting new gamers into the sport/hobby. They could not retain that mission statement without first realizing the full eSport marketing potential of Gran Turismo. Mission accomplished and the foundation has been set. At this point their studio can focus on the continual collection of assets, event scheduling/planning, and promotional efforts while iteratively refining the code.

    This article has Kaz reiterating their mission of drawing more gamers in and how he see's the single player content as a crucial piece of the puzzle to that equation. This is great news and we can only hope that these single player experiences focus more on race craft rather than sprint wins and maybe even provide some narrative heft to the single player experience. I would love a narrative career progression where players choose to start in kart racing or street racing and then work their way up to the top tiers of professional racing.
     
  22. YoBuck

    YoBuck

    Messages:
    89
    I don’t think anybody is condemning (edit) offline. Before this I played gt1/2 then nothing till the prolog demo I think it was so I never had online and was fine with the sp although to me it lacked what say TOCA had in that it involved you and the AI was actually good, like it felt like I was racing Plato or whoever. If they can get that magic back I’ll be all over sp
     
    05XR8 and MMX like this.
  23. 05XR8

    05XR8

    Messages:
    29,876
    Location:
    Australia
    I hope PD take advantage of all the data they're getting from the FIA weekly events and FIA Final events. Maybe a good way to program AI, by inserting those top player's times.

    Also, that last bit in the piece. Guess it may be some time before the next GT type game.
     
    AgentBlackDog likes this.
  24. Castrol96

    Castrol96

    Messages:
    2,524
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Need
    • Linear progression
    • GT Auto / Customisation
    • Used Car Dealer
    • Online Trading Dealer
    • Proper Tuning
    • Loads of Licences, Mission & Coffee Breaks
     
  25. kalakanto

    kalakanto

    Messages:
    153
    Location:
    Finland
    GTSport 2.0 with all level leagues. Thank you.
     
  26. Sage Ages

    Sage Ages

    Messages:
    12,119
    Location:
    United States
    ...and what exactly are said Forza games bringing to the table? Doesn't seem like a whole lot.
     
    Wolfe and FoRiZon like this.
  27. Kinna39

    Kinna39

    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    Australia
    An offline mode with some sort of progression system is essential, along with better AI.

    Also, if they want to improve the quality of racing online they should implement the penalty system into the offline racing. Teach people what actions result in a penalty. Obviously this could prove problematic the way it works at the moment if people started getting penalties because the AI is hitting them... :confused:
     
    Fosterions likes this.
  28. Scuderia Paul

    Scuderia Paul

    Messages:
    5,454
    Location:
    Ireland
    The next Gran Turismo should have more offline play. There needs to be a proper career with some element of progression and races which are far more challenging.

    The AI in Gran Turismo has always been shamefully bad and I hope that PD realises how important it is. I've been saying this constantly for 10 years so I won't expect too much. This is the sort of thing PD should be focusing on instead of having the most accurately rendered catalytic converter in the industry.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
    HarVee, 2clicks and Inferno251 like this.
  29. golfer07840

    golfer07840

    Messages:
    592
    Location:
    United States
    My 2 cents.. if he wants more people to participate in Sport mode and FIA modes then they need a better matchmaking system. And it needs to be done by driver level, not safety rating. I'm sorry, putting a D level driver on a grid full of A and A+ drivers does nothing for the D level drivers. And sure we can "get better" and all of that. However, in order for most normal people at the D level, to catch up to the A rated drivers, you literally need to do GTS every waking moment of your free time. And even then, it may not be enough. That is not fun, that is a 2nd job and I already have a job. I just want to have fun with a few challenges.

    And I get the whole "well there aren't enough A rated drivers to fill a grid" argument. My question is, why does it matter? The A level drivers never see a D rated driver anyway, so what's the difference if the grid is 15 deep or 8 deep?
     
    VFOURMAX1, Darwock and cleanLX like this.
  30. grainqey_5yj

    grainqey_5yj

    Messages:
    2
    I don't know if anybody thought of this but surely dump every event off gt league into the daily races? If that's too ambitious then have a variety of say upto 6? They could keep e.g one make events but it'd add much needed variety to the daily races and players could use the offline mode to choose the best car/setup for example, also need more endurance races to play with fuel loads and tyre choices/pit strategy