The next tuner challenge..

  • Thread starter Thread starter Leonidae
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The idea of the Spirra time was that it's really hard to control and only the best drivers will bring it out of its shell. Driving it on road tyres would be nearly impossible :scared: , plus with these settings you can't get better so no one can cheat, and we don't need a video.
 
Just wanted to let you guys know that I ran a 1'35.457 and a 1'34.??? is possible. Further, I want to clarify that I was indeed running the proto spirra in proper quick tune arcade form. :sly:

:cheers:
 
Kent
Just wanted to let you guys know that I ran a 1'35.457 and a 1'34.??? is possible. Further, I want to clarify that I was indeed running the proto spirra in proper quick tune arcade form. :sly:

:cheers:
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Wise guy :sly: I knew a low 1'35 was possible after I screwed the final hairpin but couldn't match my own first sectors, but a 1'34? I wondered and then decided I didn't care, it wouldn't happen on my skill levels.
 
I want to make this 1'34'xxx happen! I'm down to mid 1'35's but I know with a PERFECT run through the reverse banks and a PERFECT line through the descending lefthander right after it can be done, since I'm pretty sure at this point I have the flat backside down to a science.

And setsunakute, you'll soon have a road tire benchmark to shoot for, no worries :sly: Greycap and I are running some comparisons on three road-tuned cars I worked up to determine whether T6-T9 @ Nurburgring is a good even test of differently-abled cars. We have three cars in the test, an S2000, an FD RX7, and a 350Z. All three run on N3 tires, are tuned to a 3.0xx WPR, weigh within 50kg of each other, and run rally-standard downforce (13F/18R). These are all control measures; the tested variable is torque. The S2000 makes 238 lb.ft, the RX makes 308, and the 350Z makes, IIRC, 363. So far I'm running times within half a second on all three cars, so it's looking like it will be a good test! The 350Z on all other tracks tends to have a half-second to a full second's advantage over the other two, but things are MUCH more equal in T6-T9. Once Greycap completes his tests as well, we'll let everyone know how it turns out, and if anyone is interested, I'll PM the settings for the test cars. Except for the S2000... after further tweaks, I think it'll be my Touge entry :sly:
 
CraftyLandShark
I want to make this 1'34'xxx happen! I'm down to mid 1'35's but I know with a PERFECT run through the reverse banks and a PERFECT line through the descending lefthander right after it can be done, since I'm pretty sure at this point I have the flat backside down to a science.
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dang, wish i had me a force feedback steering wheel, then i could be able to pull off those sick lap times like you guys do.., i only have a DS2 *sigh*.., :( :indiff:
 
It depends really, the trickier the car, the more the DS2 users benefit. I speak as a former very successful DS2 user (ask Dark Elite and Leonidae if you don't believe) and in my opinion the wheel is better as long as everything goes fine. As soon as something goes wrong the DS2 wins a lot.

If a situation necessitates turning the wheel all the way to one side and back in about a second a wheel user very likely ends up in the scenery while the DS2 user moves the left thumb a bit and continues like nothing ever happened.

The DS2 also has a big benefit in fast corners, it turns the wheels just as much as is needed to clear the corner at the optimal speed. If you're going wide, drop the speed a bit and look, you just cleared the corner at the highest possible speed while the wheel user is trying to adjust the turn angle degree by degree. It loses the advantage in slow cornering as a wheel enables turning a bit too much, causing slight slip angle to get everything out of the tyres, but at 200+ km/h the DS2 can really make a driver look like a champion.
 
So now to the Nurburgring experiment!

It looks as though T6-T9 is definitely the ideal touge range in GT4.

Both Greycap and I agree from our tests that I described a few posts above that T6-T9 is challenging, very appropriate to touge-style racing, and our independent testing verifies that cars of similar WPR with differing levels of torque all perform nearly equally. Both Greycap and I ran times in all three cars in the 1'58's.

My initial concern was the long run-up discouraging judges, but Greycap pointed out that the run-up is more likely a GOOD thing, allowing judges to become accustomed to the feel of powerful cars on low-grip tires in severe cornering situations.

All that said, it seems like for the Touge challenge, T6-T9 is definitely the way to go for the Finalist Spotrace. If anyone is interested in recreating our test, let me know and I'll send you setups for the cars.
 
Will that be a test to become judge ???

I don't really understand (srry english isn't my 1st language).
T6-T9 on the 'ring with those cars, alright.
Stop Start or Lauched ?

Thanks for those further explanations.
(plz send the car's tuning, thanks)
 
That wouldn't be the test for judging - we'll likely stick with Infineon for that. This is the proposed location for the Touge Spotrace that will take place between the finalist cars from the Touge Division in the upcoming challenge.

But speaking of the Infineon test... still gunning for that 1'34'xxx! I ran a 1'35'751 today but I still haven't met your baseline time Kent... you fast devil!
 
Best lap by now is 1'35.894 today.... Don't think I can achieve 1'34.xxx with this car and my skill. Give me a grippier car, and I might surprise some people :p
 
On the subject of Nurburgring's T6-T9...
One major problem is the fact that the Touge doesn't give you a shoulder or space on the side of the road to go off track.
At the touge it's all four wheels on or a crash.
I'd think something similar to that concept (along with the other qualities of a touge track) is necessary when replicating the touge.

None the less, I love driving the Ring. 👍
 
CLS and Grey, have you tested those same cars in the downhill section of Citi di Aria between the timer gates? (The big stone archways) Touge will likely favour small torquey cars, so maybe this isn't about including big cars- maybe it's excluding them.
 
I think the reverse of Cittia would work better. Why? Steeper downhill.

That, and I can manhandle a Jag XJ220 around the forward course without too much of a sweat, so...
 
nd 4 holden spd
CLS and Grey, have you tested those same cars in the downhill section of Citi di Aria between the timer gates? (The big stone archways) Touge will likely favour small torquey cars, so maybe this isn't about including big cars- maybe it's excluding them.
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This is a great example of why using different divisions is a good idea (not to mention there were different divisions in the Touge Showdowns from BM). 👍
 
If you can man-handle a Jag around the forward then maybe it is best. I mean, just because we probably should pick a tiny tight course to make it a "real" touge course, doesn't mean we can't have one that allows muscle to compete as well. Secondly- maybe a 2 race touge championship touge event? Seeing as CLS and Grey put in the work on Nurburgring, have the first race there, and then a second race at Citi di Aria.

Edit: If we used Citi di Aria and you're still worried about size disadvatages, have 2 divisions based on wheel-base. How's that for an idea? Longer cars in one division, shorter cars in another.
 
I don't see a problem with having different divisions, but how would you suggest splitting them up? Curb Weight? Displacement? Outright power/torque? And would the winners all still gather to compete in a championship spotrace?

If we go with the division-based arrangement, that seems even more reason to use T6-T9 for the final spotrace. If there are cars of different sizes and outputs competing together, Citta is too intensely biased to the smaller cars. If we incorporate a spotrace into the judging criteria for each division, Citta would make a good course for the smallest/weakest division.

Kent, you also mentioned the problem of no runoff on realistic touge courses. If we're asking for clean laps in the spotrace, it makes no difference. Slam into a wall or run off into the grass, the pass still doesn't count.

ND4HS - I would think two divisions just based on wheelbase might not be enough subdivision. I'll look into some of this Best Motoring stuff - according to everything I'm hearing, it's a good source for touge-y information. I'll see how they arrange competitions and we can structure it similarly.
 
Yeah, T6-T9 for the spotrace, use the divisions I just mentioned (based on wheelbase) and we could be seriously going nicely. Use Citi di Aria for judging touge feel and what not.
 
I guess what I was trying to say was that Cittia doesn't necessarily favor the smaller cars too much; So long as the driver can figure out where the car ends.
 
If a small car is fast enough it will beat the large car in lap times. Being able to do it, and able to do it quickly are different things.
 
No, it can't. The turning circle alone gives small cars a huge advantage. Try it out, take a car with around 4000mm of length around a narrow and twisty track of your choice and visualize the width of the track in relation to the width of the car. Now take a Dodge Ram or a Plymouth Superbird and do the same. Driving the small car feels like actually driving, driving the big car feels like trying to fly a fighter jet in a bathroom. No space anywhere. But does it actually mean that the big car is worse as a car? Absolutely no.

This is why I think there should be enough room on the track, making a big car handle well shouldn't be punished just because of its physical size. And there's just about no way to beat even a well tuned Kei car with a well tuned Superbird in those alleys of Citta di Aria because the big car doesn't have any room to move, even though it is undoubtedly the faster one once it gets a chance to be driven on a "real" track.

The point I'm trying to get across is that if you go for the Nürburgring, the best handling car will probably win. If you go for the Citta di Aria, the smallest and lightest car will probably win. Which one serves the purpose of the challenge better?
 
this has been in my mind lately..,

you say that small cars (preferably Kei cars) have an advantage on Citta 'di Aria, and that they would eat up the corners, right?? i agree with RJ, the driver should memorize the car's size so that there would not be any mistakes.., come on guys, there would be real competition in Citta 'di Aria.., i like that course very much, especially the steep downhill on Reverse.., 👍
 
I understand fully well that the driver should know how big the car is. What you should understand is that a big car can not compete with a small one on a narrow track, no matter how well the car is tuned or how skillful the driver is because it simply doesn't have the space to turn. The playing field just isn't level but that's only my opinion.
 
I have to agree with Greycap. If there are divisions based on size, Citta would be fine for the smallest division. Otherwise, there really isn't a better option than the Nurburgring.
 

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