The non-muscle American car thread (READ THE OP)

  • Thread starter The87Dodge
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In your opinion, which country makes the best looking cars?


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    194
A microcosm of late 90s GM:



The final Seville was (and significantly narrowing the scope of the discussion compared to before):

  1. Redesigned from the ground up to be able to be sold worldwide. The interior and drivetrain was designed from the start to be built from the factory as LHD or RHD (I'm pretty sure the first American market GM car to do so), and most of the relevant interior part numbers are even labeled to that effect if you check the tags on them. The models in all markets were wired for things like amber turn signals and rear foglights, the headlights were designed to meet European lighting regulations without requiring addon light fixtures, the bodyshell was redesigned compared to Greyhound Seville so a simple bumper swap made it fit within 5 meter size regulations, the interior was the most European in design any American car had ever had, etc.
  2. The car debuted at the Geneva motor show, and was the pace car at Le Mans.
  3. Models exported had standard features from the factory as needed for their designated market, like folding mirrors or heavy duty cooling; and could be built on the same assembly line as USDM models instead of converted by exporters after the fact by parts GM made for other markets but weren't interested in installing themselves (as was the case for all the other cars in that post), just like European cars built in America like the Z3 were.
  4. Had highly adaptable computer systems that allowed specific tuning for markets as needed (for example, that Clarkson review where he praised the car overall but hated the transmission was a change made to the transmission programming to make it pass European noise regulations because the 4T80 was a snappy and responsive transmission otherwise; and stuff that the US market wouldn't need like rear fog lamps were controlled in software) just like the European cars did.

That's an awful lot of effort to put into making the Seville a world car when the E39 kinda made it an also-ran from debut and was already out in Europe for several years by that point. GM once again put out a car by targeting the competitors on sale when development started. Substantially improved over the Greyhound Seville it may be, 1998 was already the absolute latest GM could have possibly tried to market a FWD car (on a platform designed to allow RWD!) as a serious alternative to a BMW 5-series, no matter how advanced the suspension, traction and stability control systems were, and they were debuting the car then. The market had come a long way in the 6 years since the Greyhound Seville debuted and legitimately took the fight to the best (albeit aging and still slowly reacting to Lexus) in the segment. How many did they ever realistically think they would sell to justify all this effort?








As I understand it, in the UK (the only market that they realistically could have done reasonably well unless Japan randomly fell in love with it), they sold around... 500.
Interesting. If i understand correctly this gen is what you refer to as the greyhound?

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I don't have the numbers but it seems to me this gen sold in decent numbers in mainland Europe, more so than the 98-04 one. Even around here it can still be spotted sometimes. (Also I love the massive plate holder on a car already longer than most parking spots :D)

BTW while it's true some export models were converted by outside companies (ASC comes to mind) some were also done at the factory. I was doing some digging on the Park Avenues and found some assembly line photos. There was a designated area during assembly where those export-specific parts were fitted. Bonnevilles were done on the same line so it's probably true for those too.

Also I remember some German eu-spec Caprice owner telling me how at the factory workers would crudely hack away some undercarriage metal parts to fit the rear fog lamp brackets and such as the cars were not engineered with those in mind. Not sure if true but I would not be surprised at all.
 
Colonnade Cutlass coupes are problematic for me, particularly as they got on before the downsizing for '78. The S roof is preferable but the front end is...weird...and the waterfall grill and rectangular headlights of the Salon and Supreme is very handsome but I don't like the formal roof.
 
The Cutlass was definitely the softest looking for all its year. That front end didn’t help that model, but it’s so regular, it looks like it IS looking for it’s bifocals. :lol:
 
A few American cars I wish were in Horizon.

AMC Marlin
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Tucker 48
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Kaiser Henry J
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Kaiser Deluxe
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Studebaker Avanti
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Studebaker Starlight Coupe
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Willys Aero
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Shoebox Ford Club Coupe
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Studebaker Champion Starlight
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Keller Wagon
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Davis Divan
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Muntz Jet
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Kaiser Darrin
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Any Crosley would be fun, but the Hotshot and pickup would be especially fun.
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Okay, I know the next two are pushing the boundaries of "American", but I say it's close enough.

Nash Metropolitan, coupe or convertible
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Nash-Healey, coupe or roadster
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I'm sure I've missed a lot more, but this would be a great collection to include in any Horizon game set in the US.
 
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Some more Colonnade love. I could swear I posted this but I searched and came up with nothing.

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The one-year-only '77 Pontiac Can Am, a gussied-up LeMans Sport Coupe, is one of my favorites on the platform. Depending on the day, it could be my actual favorite as it's mostly mechanically superior to the '73 Buick Gran Sport Stage 1 with which it spars for that spot. The W72 400 was plucked from a Trans Am and was rated at 200hp (70 less than the Buick's 455, which was itself choked to reduce emissions), but that figure is very easily doubled. The primary fault is that the Trans Am's 4-speed didn't make the cut (the Buick had the option) and the only transmission behind the Can Am W72 was the TH400 (also used in the Buick when an automatic was chosen).
 
There was discussion in one of these threads some time back about wheel options for the big B-body Chryslers. I mentioned the Magnum XE GT came with a steel sport wheel also used by sporty F-bodies but couldn't find a good example to post. Well, here's a cherry example.

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That big block probably hasn't been worked over a ton but it isn't standard either.
 
I think the Century is attractive enough in the front.

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Loses it in the rear, though.

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No part of the Regal does it for me except the 455, and it was thoroughly neutered by the time they did away with it.
 
Some more Colonnade love. I could swear I posted this but I searched and came up with nothing.

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The one-year-only '77 Pontiac Can Am, a gussied-up LeMans Sport Coupe, is one of my favorites on the platform. Depending on the day, it could be my actual favorite as it's mostly mechanically superior to the '73 Buick Gran Sport Stage 1 with which it spars for that spot. The W72 400 was plucked from a Trans Am and was rated at 200hp (70 less than the Buick's 455, which was itself choked to reduce emissions), but that figure is very easily doubled. The primary fault is that the Trans Am's 4-speed didn't make the cut (the Buick had the option) and the only transmission behind the Can Am W72 was the TH400 (also used in the Buick when an automatic was chosen).
There was discussion in one of these threads some time back about wheel options for the big B-body Chryslers. I mentioned the Magnum XE GT came with a steel sport wheel also used by sporty F-bodies but couldn't find a good example to post. Well, here's a cherry example.

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That big block probably hasn't been worked over a ton but it isn't standard either.
I think the Century is attractive enough in the front.

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Loses it in the rear, though.

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No part of the Regal does it for me except the 455, and it was thoroughly neutered by the time they did away with it.
I would love to resto-mod one of these cars so it has the performance to go with it's imposing design.
 
Polycasts in the first and third images.

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I have to say I'm not a fan of that generation Monte otherwise, however. I don't get into them until they were downsized for '78 and my interest in them is short-lived until the W-body came around.
Love the wheels.

True, it's not my favorite body. Something lacks in the "eyes". Looks smooth though and I dig the earlier model tailight treatment.

I prefer the GP and Century.
 
Love the wheels.

True, it's not my favorite body. Something lacks in the "eyes". Looks smooth though and I dig the earlier model tailight treatment.

I prefer the GP and Century.
The rearend treatment of that '73 is appealing, even if I don't care for the lenses themselves.

I mainly don't like the formal roof Colonnade coupes. I like a Century coupe provided it has the big side glass. Seems to me I went into this not so long ago.
 
and I think I have some carlisle pictures that fit this thread.

I was estatic to finally see some of the 80s Shelby Dodges.

Omni GLHS
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Shelby CSX
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A Charger GLHS
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Dodge Daytona IROC
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The Spirit R/T, the styling cues of these late 80s/early 90s Dodges have grown on me overtime. Thought that might be down to how ugly a lot of cars are now with their big mouth grilles, stupid amounts of sharp angle designs, and stuff.
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Ah yes, I love these Dakota R/Ts. Such mean little trucks.
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