The Thrustmaster T500RS Thread

[Uscbryan]

My frys doesn't, if they do the employees don't know it and it isn't on
Their website. But now that hear screws are falling out and fans making noises I may just stick with my GT2. But still keeping an open mind.

 

[crox]

Wish RC45 has CSPs to compare with. I'm sure he does too :]

Have they shipped yet, RC?

 

[rebla47]

Aren't those two both 12" wheels? I'm a bit confused. Maybe GT2 thickness makes it feel smaller?

Yes, the two are 12" (at least in it specs). The problem is that: Fanatec wheels are thickness than its real cars versions, but with a 7/10 scale rim (plus the "airbag"). The T500 is best provided, and thus gives the impression of being larger.

another thing happened to me minutes ago the second time.
You start your ps3 and then the wheel starts calibrating itself or something like that. It seems sometimes it does not go back to center pos. Both times it stood ca 30° right. After plugin in the wheel againg it calibrates like it should.

Hello,
I have seen this phenomen just, when I start Ps3. Somtime I recieve a wrong angle.
But when I start GT5 it was always correct. It calibrates actually two times.

It´s a common "problem" for all FF wheels, not the T500 only. I say "problem" because it´s caused because the wheel stop to receive power in the calibration before complete, and inertia causes it to move a little, but the wheels works perfectly in games.

Please, do not we become so paranoid as to find a possible failure in any irrelevant detail.

my t500 lost a screw yesteray.

Just watched your video RC. My fan is not so loud. Yours sounds in the video really like a broken one.

Seeing this kind of quality fails (little of biggers), I think Polyphony and Thrustmaster have tried to get something that seems impossible; to offer a professional (or near professional) quality racing wheel at a price rationed, forcing them to reduce the quality of certain components or the assembly line (and all for the feature most debated in the forums is its excessive price... ).

This wheel begins to seem an absurdity.

 

[ShylockHolmes]

The point is taht the behaviour of the hweels in game is very close to each other as they are both responding to the same software driver input ie Logitech DFGT/DFPro (which is built into the compatibility of the G25/27. You can then tune out the undesirable behaviour of the GT2/3 from Fanatec, you cannot do that with the G25/27 while attached to the PS3.

This is not even a debate really, it just is so - I have now done side by sode comparisons, and in default settings the GT2 behaves the smae way as the G25 (just a little smoother) until you TUNE away the bad behaviour of the GT2. The T500 displays none of this behaviour from the get go - although all 3 wheels benefit when you turn DOWN the FFB in GT5.

Not knocking the GT2, just reporting what I have seen.

That's because both Fanatec and Logitech use HID forcefeedback and that's why they also work with all games. Fanatec also supports XID as well as HID if you have a Turbo S or GT2. The TM seems to only support a proprietary or new FF system as it only currently works with one game.

 

[Gigantoad]

Yes, the two are 12" (at least in it specs). The
Seeing this kind of quality fails (little of biggers), I think Polyphony and Thrustmaster have tried to get something that seems impossible; to offer a professional (or near professional) quality racing wheel at a price rationed, forcing them to reduce the quality of certain components or the assembly line (and all for the feature most debated in the forums is its excessive price... ).

This wheel begins to seem an absurdity.

That's an odd thought, especially since most people seem to find the wheel costs way too much still. Now they might think it costs too much and is low quality. When in reality it's actually too afforable!

Complicated world we live in eh.

 

[Raudi]

While I was at Austin Fry's today I had them check inventory and 0 stock in Austin but Houston and Dallas Stores all looked to have about 2 each (except the store in Houston where RC retuned his wheel - LOL)

I'll be sticking with my Fanatect PWTS w/Clubsports for now, but keeping an eye on this wheel to see how it shapes up with future support / drivers and reliability

Appreciate the candid feedback RC - keep up the good work!

 

[Deano-gt]

New movie, unfortunatly in french.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clwhQFxgUCA

I don't think my Wheelstand Pro can handle this wheel....

I suspect the Wheel Stand Pro may not be able to handle the weight nor the pedal system of the T500 RS. I installed a Perfect Pedal brake mod on my G27 which is mounted on a Wheel Stand Pro. Due to the large braking inputs the Wheel Stand Pro does move some laterally compared to very little with the original brake.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

I personally have had fans to go bad (unusual noise) before in other products. For example the recent home theater sound unit I bought. Often if there is a defect with electronics they show up in the first 30 days of use.

 

[GainSym]

That's because both Fanatec and Logitech use HID forcefeedback and that's why they also work with all games. Fanatec also supports XID as well as HID if you have a Turbo S or GT2. The TM seems to only support a proprietary or new FF system as it only currently works with one game.

I don't think so. Apparently Thrustmaster & Logitech have their "PS3 ForceFeedback Library". Developers use them to implement the wheel & ForceFeedback Effects on PS3. So it's probably legal & approval by Sony.
Fanatec use Logitech VID PID . So their wheels are recognized on PS3 like a Logitech and not like a Fanatec (it's explain why they are compatible but not sure it's really legal )

 

[RC45]

blank post

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

I don't think so. Apparently Thrustmaster & Logitech have their "PS3 ForceFeedback Library". Developers use them to implement the wheel & ForceFeedback Effects on PS3. So it's probably legal & approval by Sony.
Fanatec use Logitech VID PID . So their wheels are recognized on PS3 like a Logitech and not like a Fanatec (it's explain why they are compatible but not sure it's really legal )

It's probably legal as long as Fanatec doesn't suggest people to use Logitech profiler. Someone noted at ISR forum with a pc game that didn't support fanatec wheel he could just put the wheel in PS3 mode and use the logitech profiler. Darin replied he couldn't promote that option.

 

[Booey]

Seeing this kind of quality fails (little of biggers), I think Polyphony and Thrustmaster have tried to get something that seems impossible; to offer a professional (or near professional) quality racing wheel at a price rationed, forcing them to reduce the quality of certain components or the assembly line (and all for the feature most debated in the forums is its excessive price... ).

I think you're right about that. They have given us a fantastic wheel with amazing technology, but in order to keep the price even remotely reasonable (although the average gamer already thinks it's WAY too much) they must have found cost savings somewhere else. The hardware, the trimmings etc.

It makes me wonder what the lifespan of the product will be after heavy use.

Even Thomas from Fanatec expressed that their wheels would be significantly more expensive if they were not sold direct from the manufacturer. So who knows how Thrustmaster was able to produce a wheel with such great feedback but relatively innexpensive. (considering it's been compared to the high-end PC sim stuff)

 

[GainSym]

It's probably legal as long as Fanatec doesn't suggest people to use Logitech profiler. Someone noted at ISR forum with a pc game that didn't support fanatec wheel he could just put the wheel in PS3 mode and use the logitech profiler. Darin replied he couldn't promote that option.

Yes apparently on PC in "PS3 mode" you can use directly Logitech PC Driver & then your Fanatec wheel is recognized as a Logitech... So they use Logitech VID PID.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Even Thomas from Fanatec expressed that their wheels would be significantly more expensive if they were not sold direct from the manufacturer. So who knows how Thrustmaster was able to produce a wheel with such great feedback but relatively innexpensive. (considering it's been compared to the high-end PC sim stuff)

Iracing is more expensive than GT5 (per consumer) while Iracing bypasses the retailers and GT5 don't. Many have suggested Iracing needs some kind of retail version to bring down the cost of Iracing to the individual.
So I really don't buy Thomas argument (at least not in the long run) since this is why most companies go though retailers which makes their products cheaper in the long run.

 

[.Hz]

Hmm - maybe it is and I never noticed because it is thicker - youmay be correct. I will need to check.


Yes - rather they "cheap" on the fastners than the main components, but it would be great if they didnt "cheap" at all.

The hex bolt was already kind of rounded out, again QC, tollerance of cheaper fastner. I could tell a few where 'on size' and a few 'off size' and going to be the "problem children".


It could just be me getting used to the brake mod, or it could be the spring not holding up, I might replace it but they already note that if youchange the "force' you will affect the calibration.

And I sure hope ISR does post up their test/evaluation as I realy didint expect to cause this much ruckus just by reporting back what people are asking about I guess us 'amatuers' shoul dleave the reviewing to the real 'pros' like ISR - that way folks won't get all bent outof shape if their 'hero hardware' gets knocked about a little bit.


Yes, in the end the small things do not detract enough to negate the superb wheel.

No vibration motor taht I could feel. (not in the rim anyway)

Now, having said that "we" are supposed to be quite forgiving of Fanatec with their little quirks because they are a "small shop". Does this mean we should NOT be forgiving of Thrustmaster because they are a "big shop" regarding the details??

Hahaha, I'm more than happy that you're reporting man, it's GOOD to hear people's opinion's on this stuff, thanks for the responses. Ultimately it comes down to pleasing the consumer, and so, at least when you know what you're talking about, anyone's information is definitely welcome!! 👍

A vibration motor would have been nice, but I'm betting everything else regarding the feel of the wheel just ***** on the MS Racing Wheel I have currently even w/ the Japanese Nachi bearing I modded into it. It's a good wheel though, def. high quality over all now w/ the bearing, but doesnt' hold a candle to the T500 even w/o vibration motors.

The hex bolt being already slightly rounded out may then actually mean the quality of the metal isn't the "lowest possible" that you said before actually, and possibly just bad quality control and the deformed key and shape are then causing more problems, and I' m betting prob. lower quality then what the Japanese have to offer - which is usually amazing quality.

So what I'm saying is maybe if they sort out the QC of the screws, it wouldn't really even be necessary at all to get replacements, even if you do plan to mess around w/ the pedals a lot eh? What's your take on that from all who have the wheel, RC included of course.

 

[Booey]

Iracing is more expensive than GT5 (per consumer) while Iracing bypasses the retailers and GT5 don't. Many have suggested Iracing needs some kind of retail version to bring down the cost of Iracing to the individual.
So I really don't buy Thomas argument (at least not in the long run) since this is why most companies go though retailers which makes their products cheaper in the long run.

There's a big difference between making software retail and making a big box item like a wheel retail. Space = money and they can only stock a few wheels at a time. I think bringing the software to the market wouldn't necessarily see those barriers.

Also, the reason GT5 is cheaper to the consumer is because it sells millions of copies. iRacing plays to a niche market so it has less demand and must charge a premium.


But yeah, I think you're right that in the long-run it would benefit Fanatec to go the retail route. It would probably require a serious investment into the company but after time it would result in them reaching way more people and being able to produce their product at a lower price.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

nm....

 

[Ranger099]

A sample size of ONE when there is apparently only ONE in the city and that ONE is showing signs of some issues is sort of the only SAMPLE size you have at the moment isnt it?

Now, your sample size of ONE also just happens to have a frame that is tweaked so as to not allow the diamond plate to easily mount in the GT pedal mode, also just happens to have fastners of such poor QC that of the 5 (4 are needed 1 is spare) hex bolts to mount the "brake moe" 2 are so poorly moulded that the hex key barely fits into the hole, also just happens to have countersuck hex bolts that are of such poor material that after only a few very careful uses (you are encouraged to take the thing apart and reassemble in various ways) the hex holes in the faces are beginning to round out, also just happens to have hex keys of such poor quality that they are almost a 1/4 of a mm off in size and slop about in the hex bolts, also just happens to have a spring in the brake mod that is made of such poor material it is losing its spring pressure after only 7 hours of use??

These are symptoms of EVERY piece of consumer equipment that is made in China under cost and time pressures.

The T500RS is a well engineered product (this is reflected in how well it WORKS) with a very MINOR design and ergonic issue (the placement of the MODE button) that is sadly subject to the QC, material and workmanship of high discount mass manufacturers in China.

Even the AMAZING Fanatec wheel is subject to the woes of its Chinese mass manufacture.

Have you ever taken time to LOOK at the items returned to a major retailer a such as Fry's? The sheer number of well engineered and designed products that are poorly manufactured is insane.

The fact is that on this sample of ONE there is strong evidence of corners cut and quality issues... let's see, are you in the market for a T500RS?? I will sell you mine as-is for the price I paid, are you still confident this is just a sample of ONE?

Regardless, a single component failing (or should I say possibly failing - hasn't failed yet) in a sample size of ONE is meaningless. It's not proof of anything other than the reality that brand new components sometimes fail and you have the 1 out of X.

Now your other complaints about workmanship are reasonable and worth noting since that may very well be the made in china factor and poor QC rearing its ugly head. I certainly value much of what you've posted about the wheel and worry most about the availability of convenient warranty repair.

You know you do make MOSTLY valid points, you just do so in such a cliche' "I'm a big mouth from Texas" kind of way that you lose people with the approach. I'm used to guys like you so I'm never offended but I still find the over the top replies tedious at times.

I only suggest you tone it down a BIT since the value you add gets lost in the noise at times. I appreciate the balanced feedback. It's just all too often wrapped in hyperbole and hostility for hostility sake. Sometimes it comes off as too much. So once in a while, a little more "TEX" and a little less "AS-S". Just some friendly feedback.

 

[Gigantoad]

On a related note: can a bunch of cheap screws really lower the price of such a product? Kinda doubt that's gonna be more than 5$ difference to the retail price. Sure maybe other cheap components where used, but assuming that the major expensive part was the 64W motor then I have some trouble imagining a substantial sum of money.

 

[RC45]

blank post

 

[Booey]

On a related note: can a bunch of cheap screws really lower the price of such a product? Kinda doubt that's gonna be more than 5$ difference to the retail price. Sure maybe other cheap components where used, but assuming that the major expensive part was the 64W motor then I have some trouble imagining a substantial sum of money.

Every penny counts, especially at volume. The real problem comes if they made cost savings on the assembly line. If QC isn't done properly we could see wheels failing in the future.

I get what you're saying though and I fully admit I could be wrong. Everything I'm saying is just conjecture based on any knowledge I have. For all I know they are selling the thing at next to no profit or are taking a small loss and are feeling out the market.

I guess there's no point in speculating until more of these things are out in the wild and some time has passed.

 

[rebla47]

... So I really don't buy Thomas argument (at least not in the long run) since this is why most companies go though retailers which makes their products cheaper in the long run.

I´m agree with this.


Returning to the subject of failures, we must remember that is not the only wheel buggy (particularly in the first units produced):

- Some units of DFP has the pedal potentiometer fail with use.

- The firsts units of G25 has the reverse gear problem, appart the paddles was not polised, and some turns problem turning toward a particular side.

- Some units of G27 has a centering problem after time playing.

- And the Fanatec wheels... some of these, and more (and after several models released, new bugs are still giving).

There is nothing good finished since it was manufactured in China at low cost.


Probably some of the fails may be repaired in the new units to come. This is one of the inconveniences of first purchase.

 

[RC45]

blank post

 

[12thgear]

There is nothing good finished since it was manufactured in China at low cost.

Tons of people complained about the launch price of the T500RS, claiming it's destined to fail and Thrustmaster is out of their minds. Yet it's clear Thrustmaster really had to do everything they could to release the product they envisioned at the maximum price the enthusiast market would bear. I bet consumers would hate to see what this thing could have cost if it was manufactured in France or Germany. Or even still manufactured in China, but with superior hardware and workmanship.

Anyway, this is all speculation. It's too early to tell how widespread any issues are, and which issues are the result of cost-cutting vs typical early adopter risks. Well, other than the cheap, soft alloys used in some fasteners. That's just weak sauce.

 

[RC45]

blank post

 

[crox]

Retailer typically marks up 50%. Fanatec GT2 CSE sold thru B&M retailer would likely be $700-900.

Lots of great stuff made in China (Mac, etc). Issue is, as RC45 points out, low cost pressures. $10 in higher Q components may increase retail by $30-50.

Much high Q, no expense spared, sim gear made stateside. $550 for ECCI pedals, compatible with G27. $259 for Perfect Pedal, compatible with G27. Hopefully will be made to work with T500RS or Fanatec. Already compatible as separate inputs for PC use.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Retailer typically marks up 50%. Fanatec GT2 CSE sold thru B&M retailer would likely be $700-900.

I don't see anything to justified GT2 costing $700-900 when we got a retail wheel like G27 running $200-300.

 

[Booey]

Sorry I don't see anything to justified GT2 costing $700-900 when we got a retail wheel like G27 running $200-300.

The GT2 with CSP is already $499, it wouldn't take a lot to get it to $700 or higher.

There's a lot involved in getting a product into retail.

You have to market your product to retailers and get them to agree to hold your product.
You have to produce a large amounts at a time so you can stock many stores.
You have to pay to ship them all to the retail outlets.
You have to pay the retailer for the use of their store space.

Each extra hand in the supply change marks the price up.

Then there's the fact that you are going to reach a lot more people and your demand may go to levels you can't handle. Maybe they want to remain a smaller company too.

I can see retail being a possibility in the future but it takes a lot of capital all at once and if the rollout was big enough it would really chang ethe company. It's not so easy.

 

[.Hz]

Just because something is manufactured in China doesn't automatically determine the quality, that's just ignorant and thick headed thinking - and that's not meant to be offensive, and unfortunately that stigma does have it's basis in certain situations, but it really comes down to the individual company to ensure quality control.

There are hi-fi speakers costing two grand Made in China that are some of the best you can buy, and PS3's Made in China vs Japan are as equally well built, if not the later Chinese variant possibly being even better; place of manufacture does NOT equal quality or workmanship, sure China has tendencies to pull a fast one sometimes, but it really comes down to the company - such as Bowers and Wilkins for their lower end line of speakers (rest are Made in Britain) - actually inspect nearly ever speaker before it ships off, and are relatively mass produced.

Same w/ Sony, being made in China has no bearing on quality, they obviously have high standards regardless of location of manufacture, so you're going to get the same quality - and so far good-EXCELLENT quality regardless of where it was made.

I'm hoping the Thrustmaster just has a few buck saving low quality fasteners and that's it, that's what it at least appears like so far. And $5-10 can make a HUGE difference; per million units sold that's 5-10 million dollars Thrustmaster is out, and if they were to make it $620, unfortunately the way the average consumer thinks they may potentially disregard that price, it wouldn't be as appealing as 599, for example, then again, for the market this wheel is for, I'm sure the market would be still willing to pay the money for better screws, but if it's just the screws, I really se no big deal.

 

[crox]

I don't see anything to justified GT2 costing $700-900 when we got a retail wheel like G27 running $200-300.

At the high end, marginal improvements require large expenditure.