The Unofficial GT6 VS Project Cars Debate Thread (Read the Rules!)

[Zer0]

I think there are different levels to user experience. Graphics is probably the most obvious difference, and that's one part of the user experience.

As for the physics? Well, in theory a physics engine is more precise the faster it runs (with reality "running" at infinite resolution). Basically, for every tic of the physics engine, it's checking what's going on. If it can check what's going on 100 times per second it will be more precise than if it can only check what's going on 50 times per second.

Galileo Galilei described this a couple of centuries ago

Look at this figure: The curve represents the reality, which runs at infinite resolution. The bars represents the simulated reality in the physics engine. The blue bars (behind the green bars) represents a physics engine running at 50 tics per second. The green bars represents a physics engine running at 100 tics per second.

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The green bars follow the curve closer than the blue bars, because it can check the values more often.

So in theory, the better the hardware the higher resolution you can run the physics at. Of course, I don't know at what rate the physics engines of either of these games are running, but in theory this could be a possible difference between them.

Indeed. It was vital during the PS2 to PS3 transition and Kaz noted it (and can be experienced in the games), and will be during the PS3 to PS4 transition as Kaz noted it again. It's pure common sense.

The number of individual physical variables involved in the simulation will also be very likely to exponentially grow along with their Hz resolution. In GT4 there were 300 physics calculations at 60 Hz, I can bet that in GT6 PD introduced many more than 300. People who do hybrids maybe will know.

Some GT4 old info about all this:

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Made a trip yesterday to Ohio and played pCars on my friends console. (PS4) My comments I made earlier in this thread still stands except for one thing......the AI bites. I simply can't believe how such a highly touted game can end up having such crappy AI. Anyways, I'll say it has great potential but for now, its not on my "to buy" list.

And please, no comments from JohnnypCars. @Johnnypenso.

 

[Imari]

Well, in theory a physics engine is more precise the faster it runs (with reality "running" at infinite resolution). Basically, for every tic of the physics engine, it's checking what's going on. If it can check what's going on 100 times per second it will be more precise than if it can only check what's going on 50 times per second.

Galileo Galilei described this a couple of centuries ago

Look at this figure: The curve represents the reality, which runs at infinite resolution.

There's no evidence that this is the case. We don't know how reality works at the finest level, if there is a finest level, but the fact that stuff becomes quantised as it becomes smaller suggests that there's no such thing as infinite resolution.

That, and we're not all crippled by Zeno's paradox.

 

[FoRiZon]

Made a trip yesterday to Ohio and played pCars on my friends console. (PS4) My comments I made earlier in this thread still stands except for one thing......the AI bites. I simply can't believe how such a highly touted game can end up having such crappy AI. Anyways, I'll say it has great potential but for now, its not on my "to buy" list.

And please, no comments from JohnnypCars. @Johnnypenso.

Lol.

Im gonna ask, is the crap AI as in "really crap" or "several car missiles smashing yours infinitely"?

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Lol.

Im gonna ask, is the crap AI as in "really crap" or "several car missiles smashing yours infinitely"?

Just plain crap imo.

 

[eran0004]

There's no evidence that this is the case. We don't know how reality works at the finest level, if there is a finest level, but the fact that stuff becomes quantised as it becomes smaller suggests that there's no such thing as infinite resolution.

That, and we're not all crippled by Zeno's paradox.

Well, it's true that we can't measure inifintely small scales of space and time. But for practical purposes the resolution is infinite and what happens when you go below the Planck units is irrelevant.

http://www3.nd.edu/~pdunn/www.text/ECdigidaq.pdf

Zeno's paradoxes aren't relevant to this.

 

[Andefir]

I have two questions about project cars.

1: Is the car selection better than the one in GT6?

2: Are cars fully customizable?

I haven't played the game so i'm still thinking about weather i should buy it or wait for GT7... if i manage to get a PS4 anytime soon.

 

[David Talle]

I have two questions about project cars.

1: Is the car selection better than the one in GT6?

2: Are cars fully customizable?

I haven't played the game so i'm still thinking about weather i should buy it or wait for GT7... if i manage to get a PS4 anytime soon.

1: depends on what you mean by "better" ? I guess the answer will be no in your case (could be wrong).

2: No, not at all.

 

[Scaff]

I have two questions about project cars.

1: Is the car selection better than the one in GT6?

2: Are cars fully customizable?

I haven't played the game so i'm still thinking about weather i should buy it or wait for GT7... if i manage to get a PS4 anytime soon.

Q1. Totally subjective, take a look at the car list and see what it does for you. What I will say is that with the depth of physics model in pCars its going to take you a lot longer to get to grips with each car and the difference between each and every car is far more significant.

Q2. If you mean in terms of parts modification then no, that's not the point of the title, it mirrors actual motorsport series, and as with them you can't just whack a load of bits as you see fit. However in terms of tuning set-up, its far more in-depth and has far, far more of an effect on the car.

 

[FoRiZon]

I have two questions about project cars.

1: Is the car selection better than the one in GT6?

2: Are cars fully customizable?

I haven't played the game so i'm still thinking about weather i should buy it or wait for GT7... if i manage to get a PS4 anytime soon.

1. Not exactly. One is too much 2000s cars, the other is biased to the british cars. Take your pick.

2. If you mean tuning then yes. But if you mean perfomance upgrade or visual customization then no.

However, its pretty much a one off experience that compliments each other. Id reccomend you to play it.

 

[sircarltonlotus]

Haven't posted in a long time. Too much nonsense and bickering. Anyhow, here goes! I love car games, absolutely love them. Brought pcars day 1, no-brainer, played for 10hrs or so with pad. Very good but ultimately the experience was missing. No wheel=no fun. That statement is purely personal. I've now got a t300rs. Played another 15hrs with wheel. I'll start with the superlatives, the noises, the action, the career, it's all very impressive. It's for sure a great game. Is it better than gt? Well that's for individuals to make up their minds. What I will say is that in no way shape or form does it destroy gt. The physics, that are supposedly ultra realistic, are floaty and imprecise. The damage model allows you to get away with far more than you should. I love the game but it's not the game people hyped it to be. Personally, in my opinion, it just again provides more evidence that gt isn't such a God damn piece of **** everybody around here was suggesting it is. New sounds (as demonstrated by vgt) and some more in-depth physics and gt can sleep ever so easy. Hopefully project cars can soften some of the outrageous complaints against gt. Let's all face it, gt doesn't deserve most of its criticism.

 

[Scaff]

The physics, that are supposedly ultra realistic, are floaty and imprecise.

You seem to have a very different version to me then.

The damage model allows you to get away with far more than you should.

Odd because its ended a good number of races for me, both directly and as a result of damage its caused to the cars engine and/or cooling system.

Oh and please don't bypass the swear filter again, I've edited it for you this time.

 

[sircarltonlotus]

You seem to have a very different version to me then.


Odd because its ended a good number of races for me, both directly and as a result of damage its caused to the cars engine and/or cooling system.

Oh and please don't bypass the swear filter again, I've edited it for you this time.

I'll try not to. Do they sell different versions? I've hit cars off the start line that swerved in front of me and no effect whatsoever! Haha! I've had mechanical failure for sure, just not what I'd call 1 to 1 damage. I should have been mangled up! I'm not talking torque tests with physics, I'm talking getting your car out of shape and it slllooowwwllly becoming an object your actually controlling again, seems to be a lot of "nowhereness" in the meantime. Obviously your a project cars diehard but don't start attacking people because they don't think pcars is really life. Please scaff, talk me through the " I've touched your bumper, now I'm attached to you and we're going for a ride into the barriers physics"

 

[David Talle]

I agree sometime you crash quite heavily and you get away with a few scratches on the bodywork. I had a lateral crash in the R18 at Le Mans in the Porsche curves recently and the car had nothing, not even direction damage. What speed are you at in there ? 200kph ? 220 ?

Maybe that's normal, in open-wheel it's easy to end your race, but it's seems weird and too forgiving from time to time.

 

[Scaff]

I'll try not to. Do they sell different versions?

Did you expect a serious answer to such a broad, sweeping and inaccurate generalization?

I've hit cars off the start line that swerved in front of me and no effect whatsoever! Haha! I've had mechanical failure for sure, just not what I'd call 1 to 1 damage.

I don't believe that 1 to 1 damage or a perfect recreation of real world damage was ever said to be in the title? As such I'm unsure as to why you would expect it.

pCars damage system is a long way from perfect, this however is a comparison thread and in terms of GT it's 'less than perfect' is still a long way ahead.

I should have been mangled up!

On a shunt from the starting grid? If that were the case the majority of BTCC races wouldn't even get to the first corner. You are talking incidents that in reality have a very low final impact speed, both cars are only just accelerating and they are both moving i the same direction.

I'm not talking torque tests with physics, I'm talking getting your car out of shape and it slllooowwwllly becoming an object your actually controlling again, seems to be a lot of "nowhereness" in the meantime.

Odd because you didn't specificy any limits on the physics above?

As for the car getting out of shape and then "slllooowwwllly becoming an object your actually controlling again," I literally have no idea at all what you are talking about.

Silly me for thinking we were talking about the whole physics models that underline the titles.

Obviously your a project cars diehard but don't start attacking people because they don't think pcars is really life.

I've attacked no one and if you knew my posting history then you would be aware that I am quite happy to bring pCars issues and glitches to light and discus them in an adult manner.

Be aware that you are the one who has bypassed the swear filter, found the need to swear in the first place and are now assiging positions to people that they don't hold.

Please scaff, talk me through the " I've touched your bumper, now I'm attached to you and we're going for a ride into the barriers physics"

I've encountered it once in 40+ hours of playing, and as I've said I'm more than happy to discuss the issues and shortcoming pCars has. As you willing to do the same with GT?

Based on your attitude so far I suspect not, feel free to prove me wrong, but do so within the AUP.

 

[sircarltonlotus]

Well, let's start with btcc races, I've never seen Jason Plato swerve straight into someone who's doing 30, 40 mph who's got a better start than him, if he did he'd be disqualified. I have seen contact off the start line and it normally always ends in disaster. Project cars ai isn't Jason Plato. You suggested I had a different version, not me. You don't know what I mean? Good for you, maybe they do sell different versions. The physics are great, not saying they're not. The physics are flawed without doubt. No point arguing against that. With the pad, unbelievably twitchy, with t300rs not so twitchy more floaty. Once in 40 hours? Must be the one and only time you've made contact with another car. P.s I love the game hahaha! Sorry I don't think it's absolute perfection

 

[ImaRobot]

I've managed to take away almost all twitchiness when driving by tweaking my deadzone settings, and control buffers. Have you tried messing with those yet? I highly recommend it, it makes a tremendous difference.

The impact off the start wouldn't be as intense as you seem to make it. At that point, if you're going faster then the car in front of you, it's not going to be by much and the impact wouldn't be that great. There have been plenty of times where I got pushed off track and where I thought the impact shouldn't have been much, but afterwards I find out that I'm not able to keep the car straight anymore.

 

[Scaff]

Well, let's start with btcc races, I've never seen Jason Plato swerve straight into someone who's doing 30, 40 mph who's got a better start than him, if he did he'd be disqualified.

I don't believe I mentioned any specific driver at all, however y all means lets compare standing starts between GT and pCars.

I have seen contact off the start line and it normally always ends in disaster.

I've been watching touring car racing (well motorsport full stop) for three decades, and start line contact is not uncommon, but its certainly normally always a disaster. Now if you were talking about first corner incidents

Project cars ai isn't Jason Plato.

I didn't say it was. I'm not sure why you are so obsessed with him. I've met him a couple of times, nice bloke but I don't have the man crush you seem to have.

You suggested I had a different version, not me.

I wasn't serious, to be honest your comment didn't warrant a serious answer.

The physics are great, not saying they're not.

Yes you did.See you do it again in a sceond....

The physics are flawed without doubt.

No point arguing against that. With the pad, unbelievably twitchy, with t300rs not so twitchy more floaty.

You seem to be mixing your conrol interface wit the game physics, which is it (and as has been said its more than possible to get them fine).

Once in 40 hours? Must be the one and only time you've made contact with another car.

No. You really should stop making assumptions.

P.s I love the game hahaha! Sorry I don't think it's absolute perfection

Nor do I, nor have I ever said as much. Don't assign positions to people that they clearly don't have, you will not be asked again.

 

[Islaygaz]

Is it really a fair comparison though? GT6 is on PS3, Project Cars is on PS4, just in case anyone didn't know . I personally think Project Cars looks awesome. Unfortunately I've only played it in Game for like 5 mins (I don't have a PS4 yet ) but liked what I got to sample!

With this in mind, PD really have to up their game for GT7!

 

[sircarltonlotus]

I don't believe I mentioned any specific driver at all, however y all means lets compare standing starts between GT and pCars.


I've been watching touring car racing (well motorsport full stop) for three decades, and start line contact is not uncommon, but its certainly normally always a disaster. Now if you were talking about first corner incidents


I didn't say it was. I'm not sure why you are so obsessed with him. I've met him a couple of times, nice bloke but I don't have the man crush you seem to have.


I wasn't serious, to be honest your comment didn't warrant a serious answer.


Yes you did.See you do it again in a sceond....




You seem to be mixing your conrol interface wit the game physics, which is it (and as has been said its more than possible to get them fine).



No. You really should stop making assumptions.


Nor do I, nor have I ever said as much. Don't assign positions to people that they clearly don't have, you will not be asked again.

So i can't mention Plato otherwise I'm a homosexual? Let's compare standing starts..........okay, done. Good. My comment didn't deserve a serious answer but you addressed it anyway. Pcars physics can't be great and questionable at the same time? Okay. I've fine tuned my settings. Everyone who says they're not happy with pcars physics are not imbeciles, please don't pre judge people's mental capacity. Before preaching look in the mirror

 

[Scaff]

Is it really a fair comparison though? GT6 is on PS3, Project Cars is on PS4, just in case anyone didn't know . I personally think Project Cars looks awesome. Unfortunately I've only played it in Game for like 5 mins (I don't have a PS4 yet ) but liked what I got to sample!

This has been raised a few times (and is covered in the first post), yes it is fair, as long as consideration is given to the different platforms (graphics and car count on track for example).

With this in mind, PD really have to up their game for GT7!

Which is part of the reason for discussing GT6 vs pCars.

So i can't mention Plato otherwise I'm a homosexual?

When did I say that?

Let's compare standing starts..........okay, done. Good.

Well go on then.

You have plenty to comment on pCars standing starts, please ellaborate in regard to how they compare with GT's standing starts.

My comment didn't deserve a serious answer but you addressed it anyway.

Why, am I not allowed to?

Pcars physics can't be great and questionable at the same time? Okay. I've fine tuned my settings.

Yes they can. However you are jumping from one generalisation to another without any comparison and no specific examples.

Your comments are also utterly devoid of any comparison. If your point behind this is simply to take issue with pCars and ignore GT then you will find it will become a problem.

Everyone who says they're not happy with pcars physics are not imbeciles, please don't pre judge people's mental capacity. Before preaching look in the mirror

I've not said they are, so for the final time do not attribute a position to me that I clearly don't hold.

I strongly suggest that you actually take the time to read what is being posted and construct a reply to the actual points, not to what you think they say, do so without a wall of text and without the attitude.

 

[Ryan81]

While I haven't played PCars yet, I wasn't terribly impressed with the car roster. Too many racing cars over road cars for my liking. Also missing a lot of prestige marques like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati etc.

 

[Scaff]

While I haven't played PCars yet, I wasn't terribly impressed with the car roster. Too many racing cars over road cars for my liking.

Always going to be a personal thing and one I can understand, for me its the other way around I love the racing cars and the list contains a good amount of variety for me and every car drives in a unique way. As such I'm getting a lot out of a small car list.

Also missing a lot of prestige marques like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati etc.

Keep in mind how long it took PD to get hold of them, they are not easy or cheap to get and PD had the backing of Sony, SMS had the backing of the general public.

Personally I would love to have them, in particular Ferrari and Porsche would complete the GT3/GT4 line ups for me.

 

[sircarltonlotus]

This has been raised a few times (and is covered in the first post), yes it is fair, as long as consideration is given to the different platforms (graphics and car count on track for example).




Which is part of the reason for discussing GT6 vs pCars.


When did I say that?


Well go on then.

You have plenty to comment on pCars standing starts, please ellaborate in regard to how they compare with GT's standing starts.



Why, am I not allowed to?


Yes they can. However you are jumping from one generalisation to another without any comparison and no specific examples.

Your comments are also utterly devoid of any comparison. If your point behind this is simply to take issue with pCars and ignore GT then you will find it will become a problem.


I've not said they are, so for the final time do not attribute a position to me that I clearly don't hold.

I strongly suggest that you actually take the time to read what is being posted and construct a reply to the actual points, not to what you think they say, do so without a wall of text and without the attitude.

Man crush? Okay maybe you didn't say that. There are no standing starts in gt to compare. So let's compare, okay done. I'm not here to take issue with pcars. I gave my opinion is all. Pcars is different to gt, physics are better but not by an unassailable difference, graphics as with fm5, better just because it's on a better system. Personally I see more in pd's "premium" models than anything I've seen to date on this generation. The f40 in fm5 looks like an Mr2 replica. Physics in gt vs pcars? Pcars wins but (IMO) not by much at all

 

[ImaRobot]

Pcars is different to gt, physics are better but not by an unassailable difference, graphics as with fm5, better just because it's on a better system. Personally I see more in pd's "premium" models than anything I've seen to date on this generation. The f40 in fm5 looks like an Mr2 replica. Physics in gt vs pcars? Pcars wins but (IMO) not by much at all

So what I'm taking is that your gripe is with the graphics? That really seems to be the only thing you're describing here. While Project Cars doesn't look horrible, I would say their aim was far from being the best looking racing game, more so that it was aimed to excel in physics.

What is it that you think GT does better?

 

[sircarltonlotus]

So what I'm taking is that your gripe is with the graphics? That really seems to be the only thing you're describing here. While Project Cars doesn't look horrible, I would say their aim was far from being the best looking racing game, more so that it was aimed to excel in physics.

What is it that you think GT does better?

No ImaRobot. I don't really have any gripes with pcars, think it's a great game. Graphics aren't the be all and end all but with better physics(guaranteed) and sounds I think gt on ps4 walks it still. I'm saying the physics are not far enough removed from gt to make me think gt is doing anything wrong. I think people forget the massive amount of data pd has. I really like pcars a lot, I've recommended it to friends without apology but it won't replace/dethrone gt anytime soon.

 

[ImaRobot]

No ImaRobot. I don't really have any gripes with pcars, think it's a great game. Graphics aren't the be all and end all

Then I'm not sure why you'd even mention the graphics in such a way in the first place. Well, other then to get a little hit in towards them.

but with better physics(guaranteed) and sounds I think gt on ps4 walks it still.

How where you able to come to this conclusion on a game that we have almost no info on, other then a title, to compare it too?

I'm saying the physics are not far enough removed from gt to make me think gt is doing anything wrong. I think people forget the massive amount of data pd has. I really like pcars a lot, I've recommended it to friends without apology but it won't replace/dethrone gt anytime soon.

The difference in physics is a major jump in what I've been accustomed to. I had to forget some of the things I've learned from other games, especially when it comes to changes in elevation, bumps, and the curbs. Do you have any examples in specific areas you'd like to share? It all just seems extremely vague to be honest.

 

[sircarltonlotus]

Then I'm not sure why you'd even mention the graphics in such a way in the first place. Well, other then to get a little hit in towards them.

How where you able to come to this conclusion on a game that we have almost no info on, other then a title, to compare it too?


The difference in physics is a major jump in what I've been accustomed to. I had to forget some of the things I've learned from other games, especially when it comes to changes in elevation, bumps, and the curbs. Do you have any examples in specific areas you'd like to share? It all just seems extremely vague to be honest.

Exactly like bumps and elevation change, I'm only coming to the conclusion that gt7 will be hugely different because gt5/6 were hugely different from 3/4. In project cars I find that I'm easing off throttle, slowly on throttle, easy on brakes, hard on brakes all from gt experience and I'm fast on project cars. At 90%ai. I'm pretty much just saying gt is excellent, pcars may well be better but it's still a debate, which is very heartening for people who have been told over and over gt is swear filter.

 

[ImaRobot]

Exactly like bumps and elevation change, I'm only coming to the conclusion that gt7 will be hugely different because gt5/6 were hugely different from 3/4. In project cars I find that I'm easing off throttle, slowly on throttle, easy on brakes, hard on brakes all from gt experience and I'm fast on project cars. At 90%ai. I'm pretty much just saying gt is excellent, pcars may well be better but it's still a debate, which is very heartening for people who have been told over and over gt is swear filter.

You didnt explain anything, or make anything clearer for that matter. I'm a little lost at what you are actually responding to about the things I posted.

Yes, its an easy assumption that any iteration of any game should be better then the one before. With nothing shown, and no info, there shouldn't be any assumption that it will be better than something else, though. That will be up for debate, when it actually comes.

I know what you're saying, but I was asking why. You keep saying it multiple times, but with out going into any sort of detail why you think that. Yes, it is a debate, that's why I was asking for a bit more specifics. Without it, there's not much of a debate.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Well as for the physics I have only saw one thing that is pretty far off and that is the way cars behave when they are in direct contact nose>tail. so long as they are touching you can not steer the car. I have experienced this numerous times when racing through the pack from the back. I will go for an overtake, the AI car will cut me off and apply brakes then we make contact and the AI car brakes more so I can't break free by hitting the brake unless I stand on it and can not steer until contact is broken. The typical result is that the AI car goes off track and takes me with him as apparently the AI can't steer either under those conditions.

Even just a minor contact will cause this and it continues until the cars are no longer touching. This needs to be fixed and hopefully soon.

That said the physics are very good, the cars drive good and are distinctive more realistic feel than GT or Forza for sure. The contact thing is annoying for sure but can be avoided and in normal racing rarely happens. The reason I experienced it so many times is that I was running 1 lap races on the ring with 30 AI cars and starting in the back every time. That can be quite a challenge as the ring is not all that wide and can be difficult to over take on. All it takes is for the AI to move over in front of you and in many cases you will not be able to avoid contact and run into the issue with the steering.