The Unofficial GT6 VS Project Cars Debate Thread (Read the Rules!)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by FrzGT, May 11, 2015.

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How do you feel to both games?

  1. PCars sucks. GT is the best!

  2. PCars is cool but GT is better.

  3. Both are cool.

  4. GT is cool but PCars is better

  5. GT sucks. PCars is the best!

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. FS7

    FS7

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    When it comes to offline racing Pcars easily beats GT6.
    All cars & tracks are available from the start in solo mode, there's no need to grind anything, all tracks have dynamic weather & time change, there's full race weekend with practice & qualifying, there's adjustable AI difficulty, up to 44 AI opponents, I can choose AI car selection to same car I'm using, same class or multi-class, there are options to enable damage, fuel/tyre wear & penalties.
    Pcars has proper races offline, GT6 doesn't, that alone puts Pcars way above GT6 imo. GT6 is still a good game to play in time trial after one has acquired the cars they like, but without a way to setup proper races offline GT6's replay value becomes very limited.
     
  2. sircarltonlotus

    sircarltonlotus

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    I'm just talking about feel, I know what rumble strips feel like, I know what under/oversteer feels like. Gt and pcars feel very similar. Obviously if they're both trying to replicate real life this is expected. I really can't come to you with data and videos etc but every handling characteristic demonstrated in pcars is similarly demonstrated in gt. The karts have similar handling, ff and fr and mr cars behave similar. Just my opinion
     
  3. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    This I would agree with.

    This I don't agree with. GT is OK up to the limit, but once you go beyond it the limits of the tyre and suspension model become very apparent (6 is however better than 5 on both counts).

    How tyres react to heat, traction breakaway and lateral load in far more basic in GT, in a similar vein the suspension in GT never feels or acts as four separate corners trading against each other, but front and back and side to side doing so. Its good, but its a significant step below that of pCars.

    Little things (that add up) result, such as unrealistic breakway of tyre traction (the manner in which tyres recover from wheelspin at low speed or stationary is simply wrong in GT) and heat build up; the inability to realistically manage, control and correct understeer (GT does a resonable job with oversteer) is again very basic. The aero in GT is again over simply as is the reaction to forces on the suspension and tyres under heavy braking.

    Now as I say GT6 in particular moved things on in the right direction, but for whatever reason (be it platform, time or priorities) its still a good step behind pCars in these areas and just evolving the current GT6 physics engine will not, in my opinion, be enough to bridge the gap.

    I would love to see GT do it (after all I have far more time invested in GT over the years that the majority of people here - my post history is witness to that), but for me PD lost a lot of the physics focus and drive when they moved to the PS3 and I hope they can get it back for the PS4.

    However until then pCars has more than bridged that gap, and then some.
     
    Furinkazen, Gerarghini, VBR and 2 others like this.
  4. Racin-Rev

    Racin-Rev Premium

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    Physics of both games takes some getting used to in order to understand where the limits of each rests. I rarely race online. The offline availability of PCars offers far more variety and challenge with the ability to vary the AI skills as you improve your own. I very much still enjoy GT6 Seasonal's and the continued updates. Each game has it's merits and each will draw ardent fans. It will take a very long time to exhaust all the events, careers, and challenges offered in offline PCars. In order to continue to give myself variety challenge on GT6 I have 5 different racing accounts. I don't see that as necessary for PCars. Understand that when I say challenge, I am talking about my skill set which isn't anything close to several thousand drivers in GT as evidence by my struggles with Time Trials. However, I do enjoy both games at my skill level.
     
    Gerarghini, perja55, Aaroh007 and 3 others like this.
  5. Spitfire77

    Spitfire77

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    I enjoy the driving / racing in project cars MUCH more.. over all I give the win to Project Cars. I played both with the T300 wheel on the same TV with the same wheel stand.

    GT has always had the grind fest which I actually enjoyed most of the time earning that money to get the next upgrade or car to do another race is fun. GT is much more user friendly (mainly in the FFB) GTobviously has tons of cars to play with (though I really only drove a handful of them a lot) Those are the only place I can think it is better.

    Project Cars has the ability to finer tune your field of view down to the seat position.

    Project Cars physics feel better to me (once I got the FFB system setup to my liking) and for the tracks I have driven on in real life it feels more realistic.

    Project Cars sounds (though they may cut out here and there) are leaps and bounds better.

    Project Cars AI is so much better - and they are improving it.

    I can jump in an equal car type in each game and start doing laps.. in GT I will get bored shortly after I learn the track.. with Project Cars it is hard to stop I just want to keep driving.. and that is just doing solo practice laps. That is where I am won over.
     
  6. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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  7. HBR-Roadhog

    HBR-Roadhog

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    One of my major gripes with GT aside from the lack of leaderboards is the wheel oscillation It is worse on some cars than others but can be horrible in some of them. The final round of GT academy for example running that LMP on Lemans it is just a constant battle trying to hold the wheel all the way down the straight. Early on GT6 wasn't so bad in that aspect but somewhere around 1.12 it got a lot worse. I only bother to do one lap in that event being that the FFB was so bad as to be almost undriveable and definitely not fun. That Toyota LMP they added was the same way on Lemans, felt like the wheel was going to tear free from its mounts.
     
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  8. Mike_grpA

    Mike_grpA

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    I always found this odd about GT as well. It was a major problem in GT5 for me and my friends who had the game and a wheel, and with GT6 it seemed a bit better, but still there. Then the ffb update, whenever that was, brought it back again. I ended up having to turn one of the ffb options almost right down to dampen it enough to drive some cars, but that made other ffb effects even weaker than they normally were. ffb on GT is pretty bad. I've never driven a car in real life that felt even remotely like that, nowhere near realistic. (I've been driving and racing for 17 years irl, so I've driven a car or two lol).
     
    David Talle and VBR like this.
  9. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    This is one of the things that can be tuned out if you have enough FFB options built into the game as PCars has. You can change deadzones, decrease the effects of tire forces, overall strengths etc. and on a per car basis which is extremely useful.
     
  10. VBR

    VBR Premium

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    Since Project CARS has been released, it's definitely made me appreciate the things that GT6 does well. No game is perfect, & P CARS is nowhere near it, yet.
     
  11. HBR-Roadhog

    HBR-Roadhog

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    GT does indeed do some things well, other things not so much. Not having leaderboards in GT is a huge issue for many of us. The FFB is really bad in some cases. The tuning is weak and only able to save 3 tunes per car is very PS1ish.

    I see lots of people having issues with the console versions of pCars but the PC version is much better which I expected all along and why I opted for the PC version rather than buying a console. I miss the credit system, being able to buy and modify cars and such but that is about it. The cars drive very well, the graphics are good and smooth, wheel support is very good and of course it has leaderboards [for every car/track in the PC Version]

    There is still room for improvement but pCars does several things better than GT right now and will continue to improve and expand.
     
    Tornado likes this.
  12. Tornado

    Tornado

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    HBR, what wheel do you have?
     
  13. HBR-Roadhog

    HBR-Roadhog

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    I use a CSR Elite with CS pedals

    I also have a Turbo S and a DFGT
     
  14. Tornado

    Tornado

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    Fanatec uses some sort of hacked or emulated version of the Logitech drivers, don't they?
     
  15. Andefir

    Andefir

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    I will try my best to stay loyal to Gran Turismo. It was a big part of my childhood and I still enjoy playing it. But that doesn't mean I won't get Project Cars. They are both different games. While Gran Turismo has a lot of street cars and a lot of them are fully customizable, Project cars has a lot of race cars with tons of liveries. Gran Turismo to me is the best DRIVING simulator, not exactly a good racing simulator. While Pcars was made for racing fans who love racing. I love both but to me Gran Turismo will always be best.
     
    hall90 and Aaroh007 like this.
  16. HBR-Roadhog

    HBR-Roadhog

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    For the Playstation it emulates a G25/G27 so it is able to use the PS logitech drivers on PS3 maybe PS2 as well. For the Xbox 360 it uses wireless connection [xinput?]. Wheel works in Forza 2 even though it doesn't detect it properly. It is properly handled by Forza 4. Of course for the PC Fanatec provides drivers to handle the wheel and the pedals.
     
  17. MrGrado

    MrGrado

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    If Pcars hasn't fixed driving with controller on PS4, then the game is still unplayable. I can't even compare the two games while Pcars is unplayable.
     
  18. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Its not unplayable, now stop travelling around the various forums here at GT Planet posting the exact same flame-bait noise.

    Stick to one thread, stop making inaccurate and sweeping statements and discuss the point in a mature and constructive manner.
     
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  19. Tornado

    Tornado

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    I've been kicking around the idea in my head for the past few months, ever since I got my PC gaming itch going again, that it might be the fault of Logitech's drivers that have the issue with the huge deadzone and that weird wobble off center. Haven't done a comprehensive test by any means, but I have compared a couple of NFS games between their PS2 and PC versions and my DFGT definitely seems more tightly controlled with the latter.



    And if the Fanatec wheels run off those same Logitech drivers...
     
  20. HBR-Roadhog

    HBR-Roadhog

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    The PC versions are pretty much always better than console versions. Definitely any game that was designed for PC and then ported for console will be better on PC. The NFS games I have tried on both console and PC were not even close with the PC being much better. The Xbox 360 version of Shift 2 had the worst FFB of any game I have played to date. It was so bad that my first lap around Nurburgring I was off track at least 50 times where normally I would run clean and fast on that track at most I may venture of track two or three times in most cars.

    I have not tried any racing game on the PS other than GT but GT4, 5P, 5 and 6 all suffer from center wobble when using the wheels I have tried. I have not tried the Fanatec on the PS2 but the DFGT does it there so if the Fanatec works then I am sure it would as well just stronger and hard to deal with when it happens.
     
  21. FS7

    FS7

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    I've driven a bunch of cars in PCars using the default setup and realistic aids. I don't understand the complaints about DS4 controls, controls are fine imo, as long as you're smooth with your inputs. Sloppy inputs that work fine in GT & Forza don't work in PCars.
     
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  22. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    Exactly. Driving in PCars vs. driving in GT requires an adjustment. Add to that that all cars feel really different and respond very differently to inputs due to their different suspension geometry, spring stiffness, body roll, tire grip etc. In GT I found a lot of similarity in how cars felt and the fact that a mid-60's Ferrari can keep up and/or beat a modern sports car on the track, kind of tells you they didn't put a lot of effort into accurately modeling the true handling and grip characteristics of different cars.
     
  23. nocturnalgrey

    nocturnalgrey

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    Both games have flaws and strengths in my book so I went with the "Both are cool" option.
     
    Johnnypenso likes this.
  24. pasigiri

    pasigiri

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    I like PCars and what it has to offer, but I just can't drive well in it. I have it on PS4 with a CSR and Club Sport Elite pedals. In GT6, I can get around Spa pretty quickly in regular road cars stock, but in PCars, let's just say I could probably take a Mini Cooper Country Man with sport softs around Spa quicker in GT6 than a BAC Mono on Spa in PCars. Heck, I'm coming up 20 and 30 seconds slower through the first set of corners on the Nurburgring Nord in PCars compared to GT6. It's that bad.

    I just can't control the cars in PCars. Oversteer happens magically, turn in is hilarious (I'll have to turn the wheel seemly 360 degrees just to get the car to turn 5 degrees and then the very next corner if I think of turning the wheel the car spins). The BTR GT6 with all power mods, no suspension mods, and comfort hards drives better than the McLaren P1 in PCars with track tires for me. Odd thing is, I do ok on Willow Springs in PCars although I'm still a good bit quicker in GT6 on the same track.

    In all, there shouldn't be THAT big of a difference between my driving in GT6 and PCars. I'm far from some of the driver skills of a lot of you on this forum, but I aint no slouch either. And I've been messing around with game and wheel settings enough to the point where I'm starting to wonder if I got a T300 wheel, an originally supported wheel, would things be better for me in PCars. Either that or get it on PC.

    Like I said, I like (... want to like ... ) PCars, but it's just not fun for me right now.
     
  25. Furi

    Furi Premium

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    PCARS then. It appears to have divided many on these forums, yet a lot of the arguments and complaints are almost similar to those found on GT after the releases of GT and GT6.

    The thing that mostly put me off buying it at first was the initial feedback about it being unplayable on a PS4 DS4. It's pretty difficult but in all honesty I cannot see the reasoning for complaints. Default settings are sensitive for sure but no way unplayable. Indeed, all it requires are some casual modifications to controls and experimentation's. People have this expectancy that if you cannot drive it straight out the box and chuck in a corner it is wrong. The general consensus has seemed to be (as also mentioned to me by @Scaff ) , that if it isn't like GT it isn't right. This consensus is obviously down to GT being on the outgoing generation of consoles generally perceived as the leader in physics, realism and gameplay (I cannot accurately comment on Forza due to only having done a handful of laps at a friends house on FM4). However aside from Forza on Xbox, there has been very little in terms of pure sim-orientated gaming. Ironically, it can be argued (and in my opinion is valid at that) that older PC games like Rfactor and GTR2, whilst heavily dependent on mod, offer a much more complete and thorough driving experience and feel with physics.

    GT is still constrained on PS3 by 10 year old hardware, and despite that the developments PD made are absolutely astonishing, and still hold up comparably well to new generation consoles. With the limited memory of the PS3 to be able to integrate 16 fully modeled premium cars on track with changeable weather and time is astounding. There are complaints but remember, GT5 was doing this in late 2010. 5 years have moved on since then, and 5 years before we were seeing the release of RF and GTR2 and GT4 was the most accurate sim on the market.

    PCARS graphically for pure texturing and environment isn't the most beautiful game ever invented, but it's special visual effects such as rain drops, rooster tails, lights illuminating the track, sunrise and sunset are truly stunning. It is worth noting whilst people are complaining about it and deciding not to buy it this is a game in it's early development cycle. The PS4 is barely a year old, PCARS barely 2 months, and I am pretty sure I remember such complaints about GT5 and GT6 on consoles. People complain of bugs. When you are striving for more accurate gameplay, visuals, graphics and using more more complicated and higher technologies in development, there is much higher scope for something to go wrong and when it does be much more apparent and noticeable. Bugs happen. If you have a development team of say 75-150 people, you will find errors and bugs (and not everyone will be testers). On release, you may have thousands of people playing the game, so bugs and errors and glitches will be picked up much quicker.

    GT5 and GT6 were examples of this and PD continued to support it. GT5 at the end of its life was far different to it's day 1 v1.01. PCARS will be the same. In 5 years time we'll have had PCARS2 and be looking and thinking back to PCARS and saying how much things have come on since then. That's why I have little time for people complaining about the tiniest things and feel and physics. Have you driven an LMP around La Sarthe in real life? Pretty much guaranteed no. Tackled the N24 in a GT3? Thrown a McLaren around Cadwell? The majority of complaints are people refusing to simply try and adapt and change. I'll happily on a personal level dovetail between all 3, GT has been my racing game home for 4 years, but PCARS is a stunning achievement but with room for improvement, for which people must have patience. And i'll sometimes fire up my laptop and go for a run on the N24 on GTR2 with 103 other AI cars, and with a bit of tweaking that becomes as complete an experience as on consoles.

    Morale is here - people expect too much and believe everything should be perfect first time. That's not how gaming works folks.

    Also be interested specifically on feedback from those who have joined me on both platforms @Spurgy 777 @Andil @jammy21
     
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  26. Andil

    Andil

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    I've played pCars on PC and GT since GT1 - I have a wheel and a pad.

    To me, GT provides some fun driving, but when comparing to real-life driving, it feels horrendously inaccurate when using a wheel - hence why I still drive with the pad when racing GT - I only treat it as a bit of fun and nothing more. Back when GT6 was originally released, things were different, but physics/feeling has moved on a lot since then, PD need to up their game big time for their next release imo. I'm sure GT7 will be all pretty-looking, same as any GT game, but they have a lot of catching up to do in terms of physics.

    pCars may be pretty to look at, but actually for me it's the feeling of the cars which is the selling point. It's substantially better than GT (and potentially better than Assetto Corsa but that's a different topic). Whether it's cold tyres, lift off oversteer, or just general car feeling; it's better in so many areas.

    pCars for me is the only sim/game I've played where what I do on the race circuit is identical to what I do in the game. So for that reason alone it's the only thing I'm playing right now.
     
  27. Spurgy 777

    Spurgy 777

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    Think I'll do a quick comparison for now, going through all the major things and saying which game I think does them better. Might go into more detail at a later point.

    Driving physics - PCars
    Overall realism - PCars
    AI - PCars
    Contact physics - GT6
    Visuals (tracks, cars, weather effects, etc) - All PCars
    Sounds - PCars
    Single player - PCars, but only just, I don't particularly like the career mode on either game.
    Tuning/setup options - PCars
    Online lobby options - GT6
    Ease of menu navigation - Equal
    Track list - PCars (This is based off of which tracks I prefer, not the variety)
    Car list - GT6 (Although PCars isn't far behind)
    Online lobby driving standards - PCars (although that isn't saying much :p)
    Penalty system - PCars
    Ease of pit stop menu navigation - GT6
    Pit stop menu options - PCars

    That's everything I can think of for the moment, overall I would say PCars is definitely the better game.
     
  28. jammy21

    jammy21 Premium

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    I have started to play these driving games just over 3 years go when I bought PS3 + GT5. It didn't take long when I bought my 1st wheel (DFGT).
    Now I have GT6@PS3 and pCars@PC. My PC is just over minimun recommendation for pCars but that doesn't bother me.
    I don't have that much time to play pCars (yet) that I would like, but I like it a lot already. It's really feel different than GT5/GT6. I'm still in learning curve for pCars and just plaing by myself (single player/career mode races).
    To me both games are good and I like them both. At the moment I can't say which one is better. They both have good things and then not so good ones.
    I'll play both of them, but I might put more time to pCars in future.
     
    Furinkazen likes this.
  29. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    Is it possible to record some video? Do you calibrate your wheel every time you play the game? My general advice would be to avoid the faster cars and avoid the Nords at first though. Stick to the slower, new race cars like the GT4's and to the flatter tracks like Nurburgring GP. In PCars the physics are very responsive as they are in real life whereas in GT there is a lot of built in "smoothing" it seems for lack of a better word, that allows a wider range of inputs to achieve the same goal and it leads to some bad driving habits that don't work in real life and if you try to transfer them to PCars you'll be in trouble pretty quickly. I had similar issues when I tried Assetto Corsa after playing GT for years and it took me a couple of weeks to adjust to the responsiveness of the inputs and to the ways the different types and eras of cars responded. I drove the Lotus 49 for days before I really got a handle on it. I spun literally dozens and dozens of times and locked up the brakes hundreds of times as well. The depth of simulation is fabulous in AC and PCars but it takes some practice to get right.
     
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  30. sik180sx

    sik180sx

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    on ps3 yes,but for p-cars no,fanatec provided their own drivers,they sorta had to as the fanatecs run in pc mode on p-cars for ps4.