The Unofficial GT6 VS Project Cars Debate Thread (Read the Rules!)

[MXH]

The more I'm playing pCARS, the more I'm also starting to appreciate both games and their own strengths. I think they are complementing each other pretty well. With that said, I've had more fun during the 20 or so hours in pCARS than I've ever had in GT6. It offers me things I've been looking for in a racing game for a long, long time.

Realistic physics, plenty of weather options, a great racing experience and a career mode that doesn't constitutes of grinding.

It hits all the right notes.

You think it's beautiful, you ?

Wait.... Even Deep Forest on GT6, looks better. No really, PCars is unclean and besides, there are framerate drops ....

I'm sorry but I'm sure PS4 can do much better than that.

Are these purely in-game (with the exception of the last three Ariel Atom shots) unedited (carefully picked) pictures of mine beautiful enough for you? I'm not denying that pCARS can look rough around the edges, but it doesn't look as bad as you make it out to be.

Straight from gameplay. PS4 version.

​

 

[Tornado]

I certainly can't share your opinion. You're basically saying that if you have an iPhone 6, you might enjoy sometimes going back to using an Iphone 1. Its a massive evolution, and the old product feels very outdated, and very bad/primitive in general once you're used to the newest one.

Assuming that the evolution is a positive one rather than a lateral or even regression.

 

[Thomas__633]

well if I get an iphone:
I want it to have a good camera
I want it to be able to play Warlight
I want it to have a nice large screen
I want to be able to download stuff onto it
Iphone 1 can't do any of these things, Iphone 6 can.

 

[FastFurious77]

The more I'm playing pCARS, the more I'm also starting to appreciate both games and their own strengths. I think they are complementing each other pretty well. With that said, I've had more fun during the 20 or so hours in pCARS than I've ever had in GT6. It offers me things I've been looking for in a racing game for a long, long time.

Realistic physics, plenty of weather options, a great racing experience and a career mode that doesn't constitutes of grinding.

It hits all the right notes.


Are these purely in-game (with the exception of the last three Ariel Atom shots) unedited (carefully picked) pictures of mine beautiful enough for you? I'm not denying that pCARS can look rough around the edges, but it doesn't look as bad as you make it out to be.

I suppose the guy could be right although I don't know. If we talk pure car modelling polygons I'm not sure whether GT5 / GT7 for its best premiums have about 500,000 polygons. SMS have said they use 300,000 and over polygons with no defined figure for their car models. Please bare in mind I have only done my analysis just now. The car I used in PCARS isn't in GT6. It was an Apollo S.

When I put the PCARS into photomode and zoom in as close as possible, it's clear that you start seeing pixel degradation on PCARS number plates and numbers. Parts through grilles and grilles themselves look well detailed though. Lights and badges not so much. The lights don't look as resolution rich or modelled as well though like GT6 best premium models but only in photomode.

When you put PCARS and GT6 into photo mode in-game on track the camera looks the same as the garage. GT6 will probably win with the excellent camera. PCARS camera just can't match GT6 at all. Its camera is lack luster. You can't set up the camera Focus points, theres no free roam with the camera. And the controls need to be made quicker.

But in-game playing PCAR models look more detailed than GT6 and so does the track resolution.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I suppose the guy could be right although I don't know. If we talk pure car modelling polygons I'm not sure whether GT5 / GT7 for its best premiums have about 500,000 polygons. SMS have said they use 300,000 and over polygons with no defined figure for their car models.

When I put the PCARS into photomode and zoom in as close as possible, it's clear that you start seeing pixel degradation on PCARS number plates and numbers. Other areas have fine ish detail but close up resolution is lost on smaller areas like badges. Grilles look ok and other areas like meshed engine bays and grilles and displaying other parts of engine though grilles. The lights don't look as resolution rich though like GT6 best premium models.

When you put PCARS and GT6 into photo mode in-game on track the camera looks the same as the garage. GT6 will probably win with the excellent camera mode and lighting etc.. PCARS camera just can't match GT6 at all. Its camera is lack luster. You can't set up the camera Focus points, theres no free roam with the camera. And the controls need to be made quicker.

The car models in PCars do have over 300k polygons by design, but in game they display with 80k on the consoles. PC's are also 80k I believe at high, and only full resolution at Ultra. This was a necessary comprimise mainly around being able to run the physics engine, the graphic detail and 45 cars on track. More polygons would basically have meant less cars on track, a tradeoff they weren't willing to make.

 

[FastFurious77]

The car models in PCars do have over 300k polygons by design, but in game they display with 80k on the consoles. PC's are also 80k I believe at high, and only full resolution at Ultra. This was a necessary comprimise mainly around being able to run the physics engine, the graphic detail and 45 cars on track. More polygons would basically have meant less cars on track, a tradeoff they weren't willing to make.

And the trade offs were worth it for better physics. I like how they allow you to have PC like controls and push the visual options and car count all the way upto 45 which was a bold move even though at that amount it is really hammering the physics with weather will take a hit to around 40 ish frames per second from 60 FPS whereas the Xbox One was lower and suffered into the 30's.

And besides in game playing is all that matters, the best tracks that also have laser scanning aswell as thousands of photos, satellite images and licence CAD data from track officials or owners look great. As some tracks are said not to have used laser scanning or not used it for the whole track. Cars still look pretty darn good in game. For me Graphics are 2nd place when its the simulation and gameplay experience, feature rich career and race options and features, great A.I that need to be first. Most things being tweakable to our hearts content. SMS listened and delivered.

I think that's whats important.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I certainly can't share your opinion. You're basically saying that if you have an iPhone 6, you might enjoy sometimes going back to using an Iphone 1.

I have an iPhone 6. I would never go back to my old 4.

The difference is they're both tools. Gran Turismo is a game. One that has grown and evolved in certain ways over the years, absolutely... it's just also gone backwards in other ways.

Its a massive evolution, and the old product feels very outdated, and very bad/primitive in general once you're used to the newest one.

Primitive =/= Bad. I will still happily play Super Mario Bros 3 on NES, or Super Mario World on SNES, if given the opportunity.

And I think your last example makes no sense... (old gt vs new gt equals to slow car vs fast car???) err.... For a start I think there are plenty of cars (slower cars) that are more fun to drive than the Red Bulls, which go on rails.

It really shouldn't be too hard to follow, especially with you willingly throwing that iPhone comparison out there, so I'll make it simpler: if you believe newer is always better, do you only rate the C7 Corvette in GT6? Do you avoid the older, "very outdated and very bad/primitive" older generations? No? Why is that?

Like I said earlier, playing both PCARS and GT is the best possible option - one misses out on less. That same reasoning is why I'll play older GT's as well; they offer things the current games do not. It's a refrain that is common around these parts, but I'll repeat it yet again: more options are always better than less options.

 

[ironman44321]

I'll have to look at this assuming that somebody will figure out how to fix the game breaking dead zone for the Fanatec wheels on the PS4.

PCars is great, It looks and sounds great, and from what I hear it offers a great racing experience that's been missing from consoles. I do really hope they fix the issue with the dead zone so I can play it.

That being said, GT is more my type of game. I'm a car nut, I love collecting, tuning, and modifying the cars. I love hot lapping and oddball cars that don't make anyones favorite cars list.

So for me, Both are great, but GT is better.

 

[Rouward]

Based on my observation from Official US GT Forum, both games doesn't need to be compare 'cause they're totally different. PCARS was "excellent for simulating the real race" and everything in between (sounds, physics and track accurate). PCARS was meant for hardcore sim racers. while GT6 is all about driving your dream cars in any events, be it on standard or detailed cars with wide selections of 1,200 cars. Step aside the sound, GT6 nails it, even if I only use controller, the driving physics are great enough for all car fans.

I'd say they're equal. No need to throw negatives as the OP stated and I appreciate whatever fanboys says.

 

[mr_serious]

As far as I know DRS is on Formula A only and KERS on both Formula A and B.

The McLaren P1 also has DRS

 

[NixxxoN]

I have an iPhone 6. I would never go back to my old 4.

The difference is they're both tools. Gran Turismo is a game. One that has grown and evolved in certain ways over the years, absolutely... it's just also gone backwards in other ways.



Primitive =/= Bad. I will still happily play Super Mario Bros 3 on NES, or Super Mario World on SNES, if given the opportunity.



It really shouldn't be too hard to follow, especially with you willingly throwing that iPhone comparison out there, so I'll make it simpler: if you believe newer is always better, do you only rate the C7 Corvette in GT6? Do you avoid the older, "very outdated and very bad/primitive" older generations? No? Why is that?

Like I said earlier, playing both PCARS and GT is the best possible option - one misses out on less. That same reasoning is why I'll play older GT's as well; they offer things the current games do not. It's a refrain that is common around these parts, but I'll repeat it yet again: more options are always better than less options.

Well to make it simple, iphone 1 is much older and much worse than iphone 6. Same for GT6 vs older GT's. (in phyisics I'm talking)

But then you brought the mario case which is not the same. Maybe Mario Bros 1 has bad control, but Mario 3 and Mario world dont. It can be primitive but good, or primitive and bad. Old GT's feel primiitve and bad at the same time nowadays. At least for me.

 

[FastFurious77]

I'll have to look at this assuming that somebody will figure out how to fix the game breaking dead zone for the Fanatec wheels on the PS4.

PCars is great, It looks and sounds great, and from what I hear it offers a great racing experience that's been missing from consoles. I do really hope they fix the issue with the dead zone so I can play it.

That being said, GT is more my type of game. I'm a car nut, I love collecting, tuning, and modifying the cars. I love hot lapping and oddball cars that don't make anyones favorite cars list.

So for me, Both are great, but GT is better.

I have to partly agree. Where I agree is that I have been long time GT fan, where I prefer GT because I love collecting, tuning, modifying too as you do. GT brings something for everyone with variety. Premium and none premium cars or tracks, real and none real. And who doesn't or didn't like driving memorable fictional tracks from older GT.

Where I disagree is that since trying PCARS. It does all the physics, sounds, weather right. A.I is done right Career and gameplay and the racing of real life racing with all the options in the world for life like racing. Proper connection to PIT crew, and more going on in PIT when no bugs occur, strategies and penalties rules and regulations. Damage is very accurate. It makes you drive carefully and realistically cautiously. Every hit takes damage to the car or its engine or aero and you suffer for it if you don't pit in.

Gran Turismo shame to say this have focused more on delivering cars and work in other areas. Physics don't make you feel as connected to the road as PCARS does. The career mode and gameplay are not as indicative of real world racing like PCARS and the options aren't there. You don't have connection to PIT crew and PIT is very basic nothing lifelike to the real world of racing. It might have certain penalty rules and but it doesn't capture the full race event and regulations like PCARS. Damage is no where near as real world accurate as PCARS. You don't have much to be concerned about and it doesn't end your race or career.

Gran Turismo could have made GT6 this good even on PS3 but they focus on adding to many cars and other things and didn't improve the racing and gameplay experience. PCARS simply does driving simulation and racing simulation properly. For example warm up laps, practice of which two practice laps depending on event and race locations, qualifying. You can stall your engine, You have to clutch in, ignition and engine start with wheel and pedals. DRS and KERS are included. Race laps are real world too, penalties are real world with flags. Everything is done right in PCARS. GT does a few and does't do the rest or doesn't do them right.

Gran Turismo doesn't feel realistic. I have all the games. GT5, GT6, PCARS, I even own Forza 5. I know what true racing enthusiasts want and GT doesn't come close to providing the racing experience. GT is for casual driving experience with a racing experience that is more fictional and less in depth to missing a lot of things.

Yes I love GT for buying, tuning, collecting, customizing and painting cars. But working on so may cars and never improving A.I or sound ok hardware limitation. You can't stick up for PD when the damage replication, rules, regulations, gameplay experience which could have been made better on PS3, it's not down to hardware limitations. It's simply misses out on real world and in depth features. If its going to be a racing game aswell as a driving simulator then they had plenty of time to do those things right.

 

[Thomas__633]

Gaming consoles are different to phones. for example I enjoy original Wii games, and have a bunch of classic (starts with E) alternatives to gaming systems. I have played the original mario and sonic (and GT2) and all are fun (although I bought a terrible first car on GT2 )...

 

[ironman44321]

I have to partly agree. Where I agree is that I have been long time GT fan, where I prefer GT because I love collecting, tuning, modifying too as you do. GT brings something for everyone with variety. Premium and none premium cars or tracks, real and none real. And who doesn't or didn't like driving memorable fictional tracks from older GT.

Where I disagree is that since trying PCARS. It does all the physics, sounds, weather right. A.I is done right Career and gameplay and the racing of real life racing with all the options in the world for life like racing. Proper connection to PIT crew, and more going on in PIT when no bugs occur, strategies and penalties rules and regulations. Damage is very accurate. It makes you drive carefully and realistically cautiously. Every hit takes damage to the car or its engine or aero and you suffer for it if you don't pit in.

Gran Turismo shame to say this have focused more on delivering cars and work in other areas. Physics don't make you feel as connected to the road as PCARS does. The career mode and gameplay are not as indicative of real world racing like PCARS and the options aren't there. You don't have connection to PIT crew and PIT is very basic nothing lifelike to the real world of racing. It might have certain penalty rules and but it doesn't capture the full race event and regulations like PCARS. Damage is no where near as real world accurate as PCARS. You don't have much to be concerned about and it doesn't end your race or career.

Gran Turismo could have made GT6 this good even on PS3 but they focus on adding to many cars and other things and didn't improve the racing and gameplay experience. PCARS simply does driving simulation and racing simulation properly. For example warm up laps, practice of which two practice laps depending on event and race locations, qualifying. You can stall your engine, You have to clutch in, ignition and engine start with wheel and pedals. DRS and KERS are included. Race laps are real world too, penalties are real world with flags. Everything is done right in PCARS. GT does a few and does't do the rest or doesn't do them right.

Gran Turismo doesn't feel realistic. I have all the games. GT5, GT6, PCARS, I even own Forza 5. I know what true racing enthusiasts want and GT doesn't come close to providing the racing experience. GT is for casual driving experience with a racing experience that is more fictional and less in depth to missing a lot of things.

Yes I love GT for buying, tuning, collecting, customizing and painting cars. But working on so may cars and never improving A.I or sound ok hardware limitation. You can't stick up for PD when the damage replication, rules, regulations, gameplay experience which could have been made better on PS3, it's not down to hardware limitations. It's simply misses out on real world and in depth features. If its going to be a racing game aswell as a driving simulator then they had plenty of time to do those things right.

I actually don't think we disagree here. I agree that PCars does the actual racing much better than GT does, I haven't gotten to try career mode yet because as I said, I can't use my wheel yet, but I've heard good things. The physics, sounds, and damage are all better on PCars as well.

Having said all that, GT6 has been out for a year and a half and I still play it regularly. Even if they fix the issues with the Fanatec wheels there is very little chance I'll be playing PCars in a year and a half. I just don't think there is enough to keep me interested. The car list is small and is made up of almost exclusively race cars, and the level of modification leaves a lot to be desired. You also don't have to do anything to actually get the cars, which for some is great, but for me it takes something from the game.

So I can certainly sit here and say that PCars is a better racing game. It just doesn't fit my personal preference as well as GT does.

Edit: and as someone else on here already said, PCars gets me so excited for GT7.

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

 

[Master__Shake_]

To everyone that is complaining about the graphical quality of PCars, remember that GT7 is confirmed to have standard cars on release. So, once the PS2-rendered cars appear on your PS4, you can breathe easier knowing that PD cares about quantity over quality. I'm not saying the game won't look amazing, because it probably will as GT6 looks great on an old machine, but their endgame will always be inflated numbers and pushing out the product before its finished.

 

[ScottPuss20]

To everyone that is complaining about the graphical quality of PCars, remember that GT7 is confirmed to have standard cars on release. So, once the PS2-rendered cars appear on your PS4, you can breathe easier knowing that PD cares about quantity over quality. I'm not saying the game won't look amazing, because it probably will as GT6 looks great on an old machine, but their endgame will always be inflated numbers and pushing out the product before its finished.

What suggests that PD would do that?

 

[Rouward]

Dude don't you realize how hard is to convert 800 cars into more detailed, aside from that, there are many detailed cars can be driven (at least simple cars are drivable despite of the quality).

Some standard cars were already in developing like all RUFs and some JP cars.

 

[McLaren]

Dude don't you realize how hard is to convert 800 cars into more detailed, aside from that, there are many detailed cars can be driven (at least simple cars are drivable despite of the quality).

Some standard cars were already in developing like all RUFs and some JP cars.

That's no one's fault but PD's for attempting to take on such a gigantic undertaking. Once the product goes on the shelf, it's up for criticism regardless of something being 100% finished or not.

And for some, I don't think it's the fact there's 2 tiers of cars as Standard & Premium, but the varying degrees in the Standard tier. I believe someone once pointed out that a few of GT6's Standard models have remained unchanged since GT3/GT4.

 

[FoRiZon]

Not sure, but I actually less worried about the standard (sans the Supra RZ) and more about the hilariously outdated car selection.

Some are new, yes. But too much new cars not present I lost count.

 

[Nooboogering]

That's no one's fault but PD's for attempting to take on such a gigantic undertaking. Once the product goes on the shelf, it's up for criticism regardless of something being 100% finished or not.

And for some, I don't think it's the fact there's 2 tiers of cars as Standard & Premium, but the varying degrees in the Standard tier. I believe someone once pointed out that a few of GT6's Standard models have remained unchanged since GT3/GT4.

It's no one's fault but PD's.... You make it sound like there in big trouble.
Has anyone seen what a standard car looks like in GT7?
Has there been a clear defined confirmation from Kazanori regarding standard cars in GT7?
Any product that hits a shelf is up for it.
PD are still a small team.

 

[doblocruiser]

PCars is great, It looks and sounds great, and from what I hear it offers a great racing experience that's been missing from consoles. I do really hope they fix the issue with the dead zone so I can play it.

Grid Autosport offered a great racing experience on PS3. Physics aside, GRID Autosport is the pCARS of last generation in terms of delivering that "middle in the pack" experience.

 

[Junnenz]

As I said on another thread.

I started playing GT with pad until I bought a wheel. Now I'm getting the hand of PCars even thought pad initial settings are really bad and I'm not able to play with DFGT.

Also, I think GT is better, it may be due to time it's known.

 

[Scaff]

PD are still a small team.

With one of the largest budgets in the the entire world of games development. That they have a small team is the choice of PD and no one else.

As such if the small team is the problem, then its one of PD's making.

 

[David Talle]

With one of the largest budgets in the the entire world of games development. That they have a small team is the choice of PD and no one else.

As such if the small team is the problem, then its one of PD's making.

Exactly, if they have a small team for whatever reason, they have to deal with it. And if they cannot handle 1200 cars why carrying them on ? If you can't do a thing right, don't do it at all. As I said on page 1; they promote quantity over "quality" (all things being relative).

I know a lot of people are happy having such a huge selection of cars (except for the Skylines, no one cares ) but I'm not sure it serves them well to have so many mediocre cars in the game. How many premiums ? 400 ? That sounds like a more than decent base to start with to me.
And the game will be out sooner.

 

[Aussie_HSV]

With one of the largest budgets in the the entire world of games development. That they have a small team is the choice of PD and no one else.

As such if the small team is the problem, then its one of PD's making.

Is it the choice of PD?
You know this how?
Obviously, despite the fact they dominate the board, SCE have no influence then.

Things are never that black and white.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It's no one's fault but PD's.... You make it sound like there in big trouble.
Has anyone seen what a standard car looks like in GT7?
Has there been a clear defined confirmation from Kazanori regarding standard cars in GT7?
Any product that hits a shelf is up for it.
PD are still a small team.

Well then, if small team/budget is a viable part of this argument, then what SMS has done with Project Cars given their miniscule budget should be a real revelation to you. Are you singing it's praises as a result?

Is it the choice of PD?
You know this how?
Obviously, despite the fact they dominate the board, SCE have no influence then.

Things are never that black and white.

It's Sony's fault right?

 

[doblocruiser]

@Johnnypenso Do you happen to have the budget SMS had for pCars and PD had for GT6?

 

[Scaff]

Is it the choice of PD?
You know this how?
Obviously, despite the fact they dominate the board, SCE have no influence then.

Things are never that black and white.

Because I understand how corporate structures work. PD are a subsidiary company of Sony, which means they are a distinct legal entity from Sony which will grant them full budgetary and legal control.

It also ensure that should GT ever fail as a series and PD post losses then Sony are protected from them, as a subsidiary is liable for all its losses.

Now if PD were a division of Sony that would be a different matter, but they are not.

 

[David Talle]

Is it the choice of PD?
You know this how?
Obviously, despite the fact they dominate the board, SCE have no influence then.

Things are never that black and white.

Remember how many times GT5 has been delayed ? So even if it was eventually released unfinished I think PD has its word to say and Sony just shuts up most of the time.