The Unofficial GT6 VS Project Cars Debate Thread (Read the Rules!)

[Johnnypenso]

@Johnnypenso Do you happen to have the budget SMS had for pCars and PD had for GT6?

GT6, no.

GT5 - $80Million.
PCars - $6million - majority crowd funded by small investors.

 

[Aussie_HSV]

Because I understand how corporate structures work. PD are a subsidiary company of Sony, which means they are a distinct legal entity from Sony which will grant them full budgetary and legal control.

If approved by the board?
Or board approval not necessary?

I don't propose to be an expert, but it seems reasonable to assume SCE have an influence in how things are run.

 

[Scaff]

If approved by the board?
Or board approval not necessary?

I don't propose to be an expert, but it seems reasonable to assume SCE have an influence in how things are run.

Sony's board don't have a say in it, which is part of the reason why they have Kaz on the Sony board (provides a degree of influence - but I suspect that's currently more the other way around).

As a subsidiary if PD wanted a bigger team they could have a bigger team and certainly they have the budgets to do it.

However regardless of all this, even if PD were a division of Sony, its been quite clear all along that PD and Kaz have been given a very, very free hand.

 

[NUNOpt]

Grid Autosport offered a great racing experience on PS3. Physics aside, GRID Autosport is the pCARS of last generation in terms of delivering that "middle in the pack" experience.

and for that real full racing weekend experience there was also codemaster's f1 2010-2013(fake emails included).
F1 2015 is out june? 2015 and "Featuring a naturally authentic purely physics-based handling model with enhancements and additions in over 20 areas".

 

[Aussie_HSV]

Sony's board don't have a say in it, which is part of the reason why they have Kaz on the Sony board (provides a degree of influence - but I suspect that's currently more the other way around).

As a subsidiary if PD wanted a bigger team they could have a bigger team and certainly they have the budgets to do it.

It seems reasonable they would/should have the budget for expansion.
I assumed (considering the board) that SCE would be part of those decisions.

I'm still not sure it's that black and white, but happy to accept your description of who holds the final decision.

 

[doblocruiser]

GT6, no.

GT5 - $80Million.
PCars - $6million - majority crowd funded by small investors.

Thanks for that 👍

Now that makes me really wonder what the hell PD did with all those millions and that pCARS did in fact a great job with the resources they had.

So much money for PD but no clue what to do with it....

 

[Scaff]

It seems reasonable they would/should have the budget for expansion.
I assumed (considering the board) that SCE would be part of those decisions.

I'm still not sure it's that black and white, but happy to accept your description of who holds the final decision.

The biggest issue in regard to content has always been PD's choice to not subcontract modelling work, they could continue with a small team (and its no longer actually than small, 110+ staff - they have both hired new staff and moved to a larger building in recent years) and get outside companies to create models for them.

Its something that T10 have done with Forza and Evo have done with DriveClub.

 

[ColouredBadger]

For me personally, Project CARS is good. It looks very nice where it comes to environments and the weather effects are very nice looking. The weather system is particularly good as you can set a forecast for your race and not leave it to random like on GT6. There is a much better selection of tracks than GT6 (some of my all-time favourites are in pCARS) but the car list is lacking, although there are some good choices to be had.

That said, I still feel that GT6 is the better game as the handling and physics model in pCARS is a little off. I know GT has it's fair share of problems (Mid-Engines cars for example) but there is too much 'bounce' in pCARS. It kinda feels like you're driving on wobbly stilts. Don't get me wrong, I like how the game plays but it plays like a decent sim-cade racer and not a simulation like the title boasts... To me, pCARS is what Forza should have been long ago. There are however many bugs, some game-breaking, and it gets frustrating.

There are things that pCARS does do much better, the environments being the main thing. But as we're yet to see a next-gen Gran Turismo it makes me wonder what we'll see from them. Project CARS has laid a new benchmark for environmental realism that GT has to try to keep up with or beat. This is why I voted for GT being better and pCARS being cool. But it's marginal... pCARS is much more fun to play than GT and if it was based on an enjoyment poll then pCARS would get the vote every time.

 

[Aussie_HSV]

Changing tack.

I picked up PCARS in the last few days.
Difficult to sink my teeth into it without a PS4 wheel.
Also difficult to make the adjustments of earning cash to buy cars etc.

Basically, much to look at and learn yet.
But from what I've seen I'm looking forward to delving much deeper into this game.

 

[Tornado]

Now that makes me really wonder what the hell PD did with all those millions

Long development time, and lots of feature creep

 

[doblocruiser]

Long development time, and lots of feature creep

I can surely see that but SMS has released a game with many features as well with less than a 10th of PD's budget. I asume that all those Ferrari's and Lambo's cost a lot of money, but is it really millions?

 

[Thomas__633]

and for that real full racing weekend experience there was also codemaster's f1 2010-2013(fake emails included).
F1 2015 is out june? 2015 and "Featuring a naturally authentic purely physics-based handling model with enhancements and additions in over 20 areas".

I loved those emails. From memory you got one from your tech guy (called nick I think), your stats guy and sabine, your PR woman, while F1 2009 had a more 3rd person email system (with magasine articles instead). Also PC now won't even run on my laptop. *sigh*

 

[Scaff]

That said, I still feel that GT6 is the better game as the handling and physics model in pCARS is a little off. I know GT has it's fair share of problems (Mid-Engines cars for example) but there is too much 'bounce' in pCARS. It kinda feels like you're driving on wobbly stilts. Don't get me wrong, I like how the game plays but it plays like a decent sim-cade racer and not a simulation like the title boasts... To me, pCARS is what Forza should have been long ago. There are however many bugs, some game-breaking, and it gets frustrating.

Couldn't agree less.

Cars do move around that much and while pCars sin't perfect its a lot closer than GT which still struggles to deal with weight transfer correctly, doesn't model tyres much better than it did in GT5 (and that was appaling) and as a result its not just the MR cars that have issues, FWD and RR is GT are just plain wrong, with lift off oversteer in FWD, power on understeer in RR and correction of understeer across the board just wrong.

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

To everyone that is complaining about the graphical quality of PCars, remember that GT7 is confirmed to have standard cars on release. So, once the PS2-rendered cars appear on your PS4, you can breathe easier knowing that PD cares about quantity over quality. I'm not saying the game won't look amazing, because it probably will as GT6 looks great on an old machine, but their endgame will always be inflated numbers and pushing out the product before its finished.

Nothing's confirmed. Kaz said they were likely to include them, but that's all.

 

[ironman44321]

GT6, no.

GT5 - $80Million.
PCars - $6million - majority crowd funded by small investors.

Do you have a source for that PCars number? I've seen people claim that number as far back as April 2013 along with different claims ranging from $3 million to $20 million but can't seem to find anything even nearing an official statement.

Edit: GT5 cost $60 million to make, not $80 million.

 

[FoRiZon]

GT6, no.

GT5 - $80Million.
PCars - $6million - majority crowd funded by small investors.

Including the Bandai Namco funding?

 

[Scaff]

Including the Bandai Namco funding?

I don't think they would have directly funded the title, rather as distributor would have covered production, distribution and some or all marketing costs, all of which they would expect to get back from the total profits of the title.

It allows SMS to not have to fund those elements of the release (and focus on development) while providing Bandai Namco with a lower risk route to getting a title out the door.

Can't guarantee that's what happened, but it does seem the most likely route.

 

[ColouredBadger]

Couldn't agree less.

Cars do move around that much and while pCars sin't perfect its a lot closer than GT which still struggles to deal with weight transfer correctly, doesn't model tyres much better than it did in GT5 (and that was appaling) and as a result its not just the MR cars that have issues, FWD and RR is GT are just plain wrong, with lift off oversteer in FWD, power on understeer in RR and correction of understeer across the board just wrong.

I think we'll have to to agree to disagree on this. I personally feel that pCARS is too overdone in places (thunderstorms, extreme cold tyres) and the physics are a little dodgy. Have you tried jumping a sausage kerb in pCARS? You just hop over it like you've got a 10 ton elephant on the roof. The crash physics are way off too at times. I've had some incidents where the cars just bounce off each other shaking awkwardly (instead of a thud) and in some cases roll over onto their roofs in slow speed corners. I know GT6 has pretty much no crash physics to speak of but it's more believable overall because car's aren't 'hopping' over kerbs and bouncing about like they're on elastic strings instead of suspension. I know GT6 had(has) the issue with the hand-standing cars however.

There are other massive faults with it bug-wise. There is a sound bug that gets rid of all car noise on certain tracks, a Manual Transmission bug that jams the gearbox into 1st (from 5th or 6th) blowing your engine. The rolling starts are flawed and don't run smoothly and on some tracks start you mid-corner and at an immediate disadvantage. Some rumble strips WILL bounce you straight up into the air and force a crash/spin. I even seen a rumble strip literally blow a car up. An AI car drove over a kerb on Silverstone and it got flung into the air and bits of it's car went everywhere... This is just to name a few... I can't see how I can rate a game with that many floors better than an established game that, to me, has a better and more realistic handling and physics model.

[added thought]
The track recreations on pCARS are a little dodgy too. The Nordschleife in pCARS is dreadful, Brands Hatch is a little off and so is Bathurst. The tracks are very hit and miss when it comes to accuracy. Some are brilliant, others are terrible. Something that GT has always managed to get right. I know Forza players who comment on how good the tracks look in GT6, especially Nurburgring, Silverstone, Bathurst and Brands Hatch.
[end of added thought]

I still enjoy Project CARS and the way it plays but it's no more than a sim-cade attempting to be a simulator in my opinion. You're never going to get a masterpiece simulation when it's core engine is that of NFS Shift. Project CARS is fun, it's a good time filler and I've had some really entertaining races in Single Player, even if the AI is a bit dumb at times. If it was a bit more solid then I would have rated it above GT6 but as it stands I can't. GT6 is a very good game, and one that is an old-generation game which is constantly compared to next-generation games as they are the only things that can stand up to it. It can't be that bad if GT keeps being roped into these discussions.

All that said. I like pCARS and I'm not saying it is a bad game at all, because it's not. It has it's faults/bugs, as does any game, but I've had great fun since I got it on Friday. It's good and very enjoyable and I will continue to play it until GT7 gets released. After that, I'm not sure what playability it has but for the time being it has replaced GT6 in my game collection.

 

[Scaff]

I think we'll have to to agree to disagree on this. I personally feel that pCARS is too overdone in places (thunderstorms, extreme cold tyres) and the physics are a little dodgy. Have you tried jumping a sausage kerb in pCARS? You just hop over it like you've got a 10 ton elephant on the roof. The crash physics are way off too at times. I've had some incidents where the cars just bounce off each other shaking awkwardly (instead of a thud) and in some cases roll over onto their roofs in slow speed corners. I know GT6 has pretty much no crash physics to speak of but it's more believable overall because car's aren't 'hopping' over kerbs and bouncing about like they're on elastic strings instead of suspension. I know GT6 had(has) the issue with the hand-standing cars however.

Have you driven on cold race slicks and cold race spec brakes? They operate pretty much how pCars models it until they get up to temperature.

You also seem to have switched from the vehicle physics to crash physics. The crash physics on both titles leave a lot to be desired with odd effects on both, I'd give them an even had for that.

However in terms of the vehicle dynamics model, pCars walks all over GT, its not even close in terms of physics.

GT doesn't get FWD cars right at all, with lift off oversteer non-existent; RR cars in GT display no push on understeer as they should (therefore deifying the laws of physics), torque steer either from the front or rear doesn't exist in GT from a standing start. The tyre model in GT doesn't hook up in a remotely realistic manner and controlling understeer again is poorly modeled and overly difficult to correct.

I could go on.

Now pCars is not perfect, far from it, but to say that the dynamics of vehicle movement are better modeled in GT simply doesn't stand up to analysis. I've driven a wide range of race and road cars on tracks and proving grounds and of the two the one that comes closest is quite clear, and its not GT.

There are other massive faults with it bug-wise. There is a sound bug that gets rid of all car noise on certain tracks, a Manual Transmission bug that jams the gearbox into 1st (from 5th or 6th) blowing your engine. The rolling starts are flawed and don't run smoothly and on some tracks start you mid-corner and at an immediate disadvantage. Some rumble strips WILL bounce you straight up into the air and force a crash/spin. I even seen a rumble strip literally blow a car up. An AI car drove over a kerb on Silverstone and it got flung into the air and bits of it's car went everywhere... This is just to name a few... I can't see how I can rate a game with that many floors better than an established game that, to me, has a better and more realistic handling and physics model.

The rolling starts for the issues they have are better than GT5 & GT6 rolling starts that don't actually work how rolling starts actually function in reality, resulting in more 'chase the rabbit' rather than any attempt at a working AI.

Yes pCars has its bugs at present, however you seem to be forgetting that both GT5 and GT6 launched with a serious number of bugs, many with flying crashed cars and in GT5 you were not able to adjust the gear ratios (aside from final drive) for four months after launch!

[added thought]
The track recreations on pCARS are a little dodgy too. The Nordschleife in pCARS is dreadful, Brands Hatch is a little off and so is Bathurst. The tracks are very hit and miss when it comes to accuracy. Some are brilliant, others are terrible. Something that GT has always managed to get right. I know Forza players who comment on how good the tracks look in GT6, especially Nurburgring, Silverstone, Bathurst and Brands Hatch.
[end of added thought]

I've driven both the 'ring and Brands and nether are off by any serious degree in pCars, with the 'ring being far from dreadful.

I still enjoy Project CARS and the way it plays but it's no more than a sim-cade attempting to be a simulator in my opinion. You're never going to get a masterpiece simulation when it's core engine is that of NFS Shift. Project CARS is fun, it's a good time filler and I've had some really entertaining races in Single Player, even if the AI is a bit dumb at times. If it was a bit more solid then I would have rated it above GT6 but as it stands I can't. GT6 is a very good game, and one that is an old-generation game which is constantly compared to next-generation games as they are the only things that can stand up to it. It can't be that bad if GT keeps being roped into these discussions.

All that said. I like pCARS and I'm not saying it is a bad game at all, because it's not. It has it's faults/bugs, as does any game, but I've had great fun since I got it on Friday. It's good and very enjoyable and I will continue to play it until GT7 gets released. After that, I'm not sure what playability it has but for the time being it has replaced GT6 in my game collection.

I'm sorry but if you class pCars as a simcade then what is GT6 given that it simulates less than pCars does and simulates what it does to a lower standard many of the GT values (as has been shown in hacked data fields) don't even differentiate between the two sides of the car, instead simply being front and rear rather than all four points.

I mean do you really believe that RWD cars will take off from a full throttle launch in a dead straight line, that RR cars never push under acceleration, that a rapid lift off the throttle in a FWD car can never result in the rear stepping out or that a slight lift of the throttle doesn't trim understeer?

 

[Johnnypenso]

There are other massive faults with it bug-wise. There is a sound bug that gets rid of all car noise on certain tracks, a Manual Transmission bug that jams the gearbox into 1st (from 5th or 6th) blowing your engine. The rolling starts are flawed and don't run smoothly and on some tracks start you mid-corner and at an immediate disadvantage. Some rumble strips WILL bounce you straight up into the air and force a crash/spin. I even seen a rumble strip literally blow a car up. An AI car drove over a kerb on Silverstone and it got flung into the air and bits of it's car went everywhere... This is just to name a few... I can't see how I can rate a game with that many floors better than an established game that, to me, has a better and more realistic handling and physics model.

[added thought]
The track recreations on pCARS are a little dodgy too. The Nordschleife in pCARS is dreadful, Brands Hatch is a little off and so is Bathurst. The tracks are very hit and miss when it comes to accuracy. Some are brilliant, others are terrible. Something that GT has always managed to get right. I know Forza players who comment on how good the tracks look in GT6, especially Nurburgring, Silverstone, Bathurst and Brands Hatch.
[end of added thought]

I still enjoy Project CARS and the way it plays but it's no more than a sim-cade attempting to be a simulator in my opinion. You're never going to get a masterpiece simulation when it's core engine is that of NFS Shift. Project CARS is fun, it's a good time filler and I've had some really entertaining races in Single Player, even if the AI is a bit dumb at times. If it was a bit more solid then I would have rated it above GT6 but as it stands I can't. GT6 is a very good game, and one that is an old-generation game which is constantly compared to next-generation games as they are the only things that can stand up to it. It can't be that bad if GT keeps being roped into these discussions.

All that said. I like pCARS and I'm not saying it is a bad game at all, because it's not. It has it's faults/bugs, as does any game, but I've had great fun since I got it on Friday. It's good and very enjoyable and I will continue to play it until GT7 gets released. After that, I'm not sure what playability it has but for the time being it has replaced GT6 in my game collection.

I've driven Brands Hatch in 3 simulators in the last few months. The track in PCars is laser scanned. I'm curious to know what part you think is a little off and also where the Nords is dreadful? Watching this video, even the suspension movement of the right front tire seems to match the real car in many parts of the video and the track appears very accurate:



The rolling starts aren't perfect but they are light years ahead of GT. Complaining about starting on a curve which is actually a simulation of how you start a race in real life is a bit off the mark. You do realize that on some tracks with large fields, when you start near the back you start on corner, that's just how it works out.

Do you have a source for that PCars number? I've seen people claim that number as far back as April 2013 along with different claims ranging from $3 million to $20 million but can't seem to find anything even nearing an official statement.

Edit: GT5 cost $60 million to make, not $80 million.

I don't know if there are "official" sources but the $80 million figure is widely quoted:

http://www.wired.com/2013/05/gran-turismo-6/
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/gta-iv-is-most-expensive-game-ever-made
http://www.wired.com/2013/05/gran-turismo-6/

The $60 Million figure is from more than a year before the game was released and Kaz both acknowledges the figure and that it's in the 5 years to date that the game has been in development:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...urismo_5s_Development_Cost_Hit_60_Million.php

Polyphony Digital's long-awaited PlayStation 3 racing sim Gran Turismo 5 has cost publisher Sony a total of $60 million over its five-year development cycle, according to an estimate by series producer Kazunori Yamauchi.

Key word is "has". As in has cost to date, that date being November 2009, more than a year before release.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Delete

 

[ColouredBadger]

Have you driven on cold race slicks and cold race spec brakes? They operate pretty much how pCars models it until they get up to temperature.

I haven't because I'm not a professional racing driver and can't afford to buy a racing car with a set of slicks... But, I know someone who races in the real life Clio Cup UK and he has no random spin-off's or crazy amounts of oversteer in his Clio Cup Car when going on out-laps from the pits, driving to grid etc. Cold tyres have a loss on grip yes, but not that great that it's like driving slicks on a soaking wet track.

You also seem to have switched from the vehicle physics to crash physics. The crash physics on both titles leave a lot to be desired with odd effects on both, I'd give them an even had for that.

I mentioned both and have problems with both. As I suggested with the random car flips and other physic problems.

GT doesn't get FWD cars right at all, with lift off oversteer non-existent; RR cars in GT display no push on understeer as they should (therefore deifying the laws of physics), torque steer either from the front or rear doesn't exist in GT from a standing start. The tyre model in GT doesn't hook up in a remotely realistic manner and controlling understeer again is poorly modeled and overly difficult to correct.

GT has unrealistic tyre models, I will agree with that. They're all too grippy and you can go faster because of it. However, if you try to find the correct tyre for the car then the understeer, oversteer and everything you listed does become apparant. Sticking Sport Soft tyres on a Ford Focus won't give you the realistic situations. Which is what GT players do in abundance.

Now pCars is not perfect, far from it, but to say that the dynamics of vehicle movement are better modeled in GT simply doesn't stand up to analysis. I've driven a wide range of race and road cars on tracks and proving grounds and of the two the one that comes closest is quite clear, and its not GT.

Did the cars 'wobble' on the springs? Because I've been in many cars (as a passenger as I don't have a license) and I've never known one single car to wobble on it's springs. Not sure how that is accurate at all...

As for any physics related arguments. I refer you to this video of the amazing, super-realistic physics.

Yes pCars has its bugs at present, however you seem to be forgetting that both GT5 and GT6 launched with a serious number of bugs, many with flying crashed cars and in GT5 you were not able to adjust the gear ratios (aside from final drive) for four months after launch!

I would sooner take an unadjustable transmission over a bug that causes your car to flip, explode and force an end or restart just because you touched a rumble strip.

I've driven both the 'ring and Brands and nether are off by any serious degree in pCars, with the 'ring being far from dreadful.

We will differ on this one then.


As I've said. I think we will have to agree to disagree on this issue because we'll be arguing until the end of time. I shall read your responses to all of this and then drop the topic as it's not fair to carry on and spoil the topic/discussion for everyone else.

I still like the game and it is very enjoyable and I'll continue to play it for the short-term future. Even so much that I'm planning to host races on the game with my Casual Racing Group because it is a fun game.

I've driven Brands Hatch in 3 simulators in the last few months. The track in PCars is laser scanned. I'm curious to know what part you think is a little off and also where the Nords is dreadful? Watching this video, even the suspension movement of the right front tire seems to match the real car in many parts of the video and the track appears very accurate:

Oh goody. Mr. Project CARS himself. ... To me it's a little too flat. The elevations in the game are either too much or too little in certain places. The ones that are smack on for me are Oulton Park, Road America, Watkins Glen and Snetterton. Although, the sausage kerbs on Snetterton aren't quite 18 inches tall real life.

The rolling starts aren't perfect but they are light years ahead of GT. Complaining about starting on a curve which is actually a simulation of how you start a race in real life is a bit off the mark. You do realize that on some tracks with large fields, when you start near the back you start on corner, that's just how it works out.

True, but I don't expect to be having to accelerate, turn and avoid the grass when I'm in pole. Try the rolling starts on Zolder. If you can get across the line first from that rolling start then you're a better player than I am. 👍


As I've said countless times. I like the game, but it's all it is. A game. It's not a simulation, it's a sim-cade to me and we'll disagree on this forever and a day. I think it might be wise to disagree and move separate ways on this because I won't back down and I'm sure neither of you will either. Here's to not being able to express a negative opinion on the internet!

 

[Johnnypenso]

As I've said countless times. I like the game, but it's all it is. A game. It's not a simulation, it's a sim-cade to me and we'll disagree on this forever and a day. I think it might be wise to disagree and move separate ways on this because I won't back down and I'm sure neither of you will either. Here's to not being able to express a negative opinion on the internet!

Pretty sure your mind is made up but I posted the video for a reason. Did you watch it and can you tell me where you think the track is off? Because it looks pretty much about as identical as a track will look in a video game these days.

There's no need to play the martyr card either. I'm not challenging your opinions, you can dislike any game all you want, I'm only challenging your statements that have some factual basis.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Wow, after reading countless reviews and watching numerous videos, looks like pCars kinda fell short and isn't all it was hyped up to be. Shame really because I was kinda excited about its release and really had high expectations because of all the hype. Glad that I decided to wait and not run out and make a blind purchase. Hopefully they get some of the issues fixed through time otherwise it will be a no-go for me. Just reading the reviews though, I'd have to say I'll stick with GT for now.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Wow, after reading countless reviews and watching numerous videos, looks like pCars kinda fell short and isn't all it was hyped up to be. Shame really because I was kinda excited about its release and really had high expectations because of all the hype. Glad that I decided to wait and not run out and make a blind purchase. Hopefully they get some of the issues fixed through time otherwise it will be a no-go for me. Just reading the reviews though, I'd have to say I'll stick with GT for now.

The reviews are stellar actually, metacritic scores are higher than GT6. The game has some flaws and weaknesses but in the GTP forums the vast majority of gamers seem to be blown away by the game. It's far and away a better driving experience and tuning experience IMO and overall a much, much more refined simulator, although quite obviously a less comprehensive and less widely focused game overall. It's fine to wait on some bugs being sorted out no doubt about it, but I guarantee you are missing out on a far more enjoyable driving experience, especially if you have a wheel. Every car feels different, drives different, tunes different etc. Tuning really, really, really works, just as it's described in the game and in relation to real life. Do the backwards ride height, camber issues, grip glitch in GTA, aero issues etc. stop you from playing GT6?

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

The reviews are stellar actually, metacritic scores are higher than GT6. The game has some flaws and weaknesses but in the GTP forums the vast majority of gamers seem to be blown away by the game. It's far and away a better driving experience and tuning experience IMO and overall a much, much more refined simulator, although quite obviously a less comprehensive and less widely focused game overall. It's fine to wait on some bugs being sorted out no doubt about it, but I guarantee you are missing out on a far more enjoyable driving experience, especially if you have a wheel. Every car feels different, drives different, tunes different etc. Tuning really, really, really works, just as it's described in the game and in relation to real life. Do the backwards ride height, camber issues, grip glitch in GTA, aero issues etc. stop you from playing GT6?

No, they don't, but considering I already have the game, I'll stick with it for now as opposed to spending money on something that has its own flaws/bugs/downfalls. I realize you're a big fan and all, but there is really no need for the sales pitch. As said, I've read the reviews and don't feel like diving into another game that apparently needs a few patches/fixes to be enjoyable.....for me anyways.

 

[David Talle]

Tuning really, really, really works, just as it's described in the game and in relation to real life.

Really, really, really, poorly described by the way, whenever it is actually described. If you don't already have tuning notions forget it. At least in the french translation.

 

[McLaren]

It's no one's fault but PD's.... You make it sound like there in big trouble.
Has anyone seen what a standard car looks like in GT7?
Has there been a clear defined confirmation from Kazanori regarding standard cars in GT7?
Any product that hits a shelf is up for it.
PD are still a small team.

No, I'm pointing out the fact that if they choose to take on such a gigantic undertaking & can't commit to it 100% by the time the product hits the shelf, that's on them. Developers aren't excused for half-assing these days & that's what some Standard cars are when people point out reused models from the PS2 generation.

It doesn't matter what GT7 has, the topic is about GT6. If we want to play what will happen in the future, all our qualms against any game could be held irrelevant since the next game may or may not fix them.

PD being a small team is by their own decision, & again, part of why they are up for criticism when attempting to pile a 1,000 cars into a game, & the majority are not all up to their desired goals with them. They could just as easily out-source, hire more in-house, or cut back on content to achieve their goals with them.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Really, really, really, poorly described by the way, whenever it is actually described. If you don't already have tuning notions forget it. At least in the french translation.

If you mean the FFB tuning menus I agree, the wording is horrible It was one of the things I was really hoping that crowd funding would bring to the table and a major disappointment for me, that is, game descriptions that were both thorough and written in plain english. Do this and that happens etc. The FFB descriptions are written for a rocket surgeon not a sim racer But I was talking about the car tuning menus, springs, dampers, toe, camber etc. I don't have the french version but in the english version they are simple and straightforward and it's not hard to figure out what to do if your car has some issues and you're reasonably acquainted with real life tuning principles.

 

[dr_slump]

Some people might have noticed me posting quite negatively in the pcars subforum, but that's not because I think the game is actually that bad as a whole.
Honestly, Pcars is currently an unfinished, incredibly buggy product. One that, if it had been a AAA title, likely would've received much harsher criticisms.

Constant crashes, literally gamebreaking bugs, obvious design flaws and other various shortcomings simply ruin the experience, at least for me. Even the UI is absolutely awful and even though there's tons of settings available, the description is ludicrous. I'm not necessarily talking about he main screen, it's more the submenus.
I don't really want to go into detail with all the technical issues the game has...

I had high hopes for that game, I wanted to like it, I still want to like it, but it just doesn't allow me to, at least not at this point.

However, I definitely see the potential and I'm going to keep an eye on it. But I'm not sure if SMS will or even can really adress all of the issues.

At the same time Project Cars falls short in pretty much every other category besides of the racing aspect. GT offers not only more, but also more diversity. Project Cars doesn't offer the freedom to do things you want as much as GT does. Especially important to me is the online side of the game, which simply falls short in PC. It feels like a not very well thought through last second implementation in Project Cars.

Perhaps I shouldn't even say Project Cars gets the racing right (≠ driving), because it actually doesn't, unless you really go ahead and try to meet up with people you know and host a private event. As example you can't even have the BMW and Ford Group 5 cars in a race without players still getting access to that annoying Mercedes DTM car. Also while the game features a flag system, it doesn't have any relevance! You can simply ignore it... but sure, that's something GT doesn't even feature. The collisions system is an absolute joke, extremely frustrating to find your car end up in the dirt off the track just because somebody slightly touched your car. Just to call a few examples.
Of course, there's also all those insane bugs, such as instant destruction of your car or lapped players not counting as lapped players, etc, which make the racing aspect more painful than fun at the moment, but yeah...


To me it seems as if Project Cars could become a really nice game, one that could be worth playing regularly, but even then it will very likely never replace Gran Turismo. Project Cars is only in the position to place itself either as a coexistent game to GT, or to go under. Coexistent doesn't mean they'd have to be bought by the same person, don't confuse this.


However, the funny thing is that I want GT7 even more now. It also made me to find back to playing games such as AC, GTR, R3R, Race 07, rF, something I actually stopped doing for a while (damn you CSGO!).

Hopefully Project Cars will improve, it has to.