Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by Pennzoil23, Jan 20, 2020.
This guy confirms that there is no flex (even with the hardest red springs):
How is that confirmation when we already have a video showing the flex....
Watched the vid, he is very light on his brake pedal, that’s why you don’t see the flex. With Sim Racing Garage he is MUCH more aggressive and you can see the the flex.
You should read the "SimRacingSource" comments below his video. He explains that there is no flex on his side. You can also ask him directly if you have some doubt .
I get that he doesn’t, but look how light he is on the brake pedal.
His comments are irrelevant when we have video proof of flex when used aggressively.
The more accurate comment would be that if you are not a aggressive driver you won’t notice flex, BUT if you are aggressive and heavy on the brakes you will have flex.
For the same reason some can get by just fine with a playseat pedal plate when not using a load cell. But once you get a load cell and aggressive braking the pedal plate suffers from movement.
The issue will become even more prevalent once people start upgrading the springs for a heavier pedal. That will increase the stress on the weak pivot/mount point.
Anytime someone brings a product to the market that utilizes higher end technology at a lower price point really it helps every consumer as other manufacturers are then put in a position to reevaluate their products and pricing to maintain sales. Its a win whether you want this brand or not in the long run. Example is perhaps now the Fanatec elite pedals will in the future start to use hall effect sensors instead of pots while maintaining their current pricing structure.
I think that I'll keep the squash ball stuffed in the conical brake mod bracket, the upgrade cost $12, for three balls, works great to give more resistance and control of letting off the brake. Maybe if I'm still in the Thrustmaster ecosystem if the peddles break, I'll opt for these for the better sensors and load cell, or if I catch them on sale in a year after results are out on the short side of long term durability.
As I mentioned earlier I don't think that movement is coming from the base (that's why I addressed the base flex this time). It looks to be coming from the plastic bushings not fitting quite tightly enough and that could possibly be overcome with shims.
Check this video and it shows very clearly where the movement is coming from, and with pressure this light it would not be the base flexing:
I agree that it's not a matter of mounting the base differently as I've seen others (not just here) mention. It's possible shims could solve the issue, we will have to wait and see if this can be fixed. Kinda crazy that Thrustmaster overlooked this though. I get saving costs, but they are entering a market segment where little things like these are heavily criticized.
Using my crystal ball I can see aftermarket bushings in the very near future ... or a version 2.
For 200 dollars, I dont see how that small bit of Flex could be a dealbreaker. The flex is often in the pedalplate.
It def depends on the person/setup. For guys using a Playseat, the insane amount of Flex in the pedalplate is far greater and def the point to address first. But that brings about another point.......why on earth would you use a load cell with a crappy pedal plate? It completely defeats the purpose of using muscle memory as that flex works against you and is inconsistent.
I have a Playseat (upgrading to Simlab P1-X now) with the terrible pedalplate design. When I first upgraded to a load cell it was laughably bad. The flex destroyed any benefit of the load cell and worked against me. Quick trip to Lowes and I was able to build a box around my pedals making them 100% solid. Then I was able to swap to the strongest elastomers and have a rock solid brake pedal. That's when I found improvements in performance and far greater confidence with trail braking and consistency.
Any flex at all in the pedals or movement in the wheel base are the enemies of consistency. And at $200 if the option is CSL with a all metal design and no flex, or Thrustmaster with flex, I'll go CSL IMO. Flex in a rig is the enemy.
I disagree there. If the flex is consistent it wont matter to your performance.
100% disagree on this one. Remove that flex and your consistency will improve. You're adapting to a weakness in your system that is holding you back.
My consistency dramatically improved once I solidified my rig.
You do realise that CSL pedal arms also have flex.
Dont forget to mention alien drivers who drive or used to drive consistently with Logitech pedals. But I guess its personal.
The flex he's describing is very very tiny and only in extreme cases, it's also different than the flex seen in the thrustmaster which you can visually see in his video.
He is also running a significantly stiffer brake pedal than the Thrustmaster.
And those same aliens are faster and more consistent on a better rig. Dont forget that either
I understand your point and fully agree that 0 flex is better and metal is better then plastic. But suggesting that that little Flex will ruin your consistency is exaggerating a lot. Humans have the talent to adapt very quickly.
Flex is the wrong word for what's happening on the TM pedals. I think slop would be a more accurate term and it too is only *seen in extreme cases. Flex is the correct term for the Fanatec pedals
Edit: *Seen is probably the wrong word, *felt would be a better discription.
It's hard to go back from no flex to flex. I "dealt" with flex and agree you can "live" with it if need be, but it holds you back no question. If I had to go back to my non braced pedal plate I'd prolly throw things haha.
That might actually be the case. With the Fanatec you might get a little flex at the extreme end of the pedals strength but 99% of the time none. That's something that can't really be seen on video. With the thrustmaster it could be a combo of flex and slop but def a lot of slop. Watching the video I can see it moves around on multiple axis, that part is def the slop.
I edited my post before you could see it I think. With the Fanatec video, I forgot to mention that he was running much stiffer settings and as a result his pedal was significantly stiffer than the Thrustmaster. This will highlight any weaknesses in a system, but even then he said the flex was almost imperceptible. The Thrustmaster uses weaker springs and still has the issue, which makes me wonder how it will hold up to modders adding stronger springs. Maybe adding shims etc will help and allow them to run the stiffer springs without the flex/slop.
He wasn't just talking about the brake... arms is plural .
I honestly don't think these small issues with both sets are anything to be concerned about. For the price they're both good value and these new TM pedals fill a void that's long overdue for TM console players.
I will agree a persons aspirations as to how serious they take sim racing and the amount of budget they can or will spend on the hobby leaves a solid place for different levels of sim related equipment.
Also how you drive, what your personal preferences are can also influence whether one piece of gear may work well for you but not someone else. I have a Fanatec elite loadcell brake, I do not have it set up where I have to stand on it to get full braking pressure but it does take a reasonable but fairly light firm pressure for full braking and I find that it is much more consistent than a non load cell braking setup.
Its not how much pressure you apply it is about the repeatability of that same pressure giving the same braking results each time you apply the brakes.
I play racing games to enjoy them, I do not have my Fanatec wheel FFB set up where I need to work out in the gym to use that either. But I am no where near the pointy end of the spear pace wise and I do not abuse or treat my gear rough as another point.
So for my use the lower mid level CSL Elite gear fits my needs well. It is much smoother than the G29 I upgraded from although my G29 bought when the PS4 launched is back in the original box and works great, for that matter the Logitech driving Force wheel I used for years on the PS3 is also back in its original box and that setup still works great also.
So it does not always require the top of the line most expensive gear to fit a persons needs, give both a reasonable performance level and a great long lasting service even though it sells at a lower price point. To many people are more worried about looking down their noses because someone elses uses or owns gear that may not be considered the top shelf product. In the end we are all just pretend racing in a game anyway.
That would be great if they do. I'd buy that.
I don’t get why we can’t pre order from amazon.ca, also it bin a awail here in Canada we can’t get t-GT , can it be Bundle is coming soon with thrustmaster t-lcm and TGT ???
Oh you'll be able to tell the difference after 6 months to year if you regularly do sim racing. The truth is the potentiometers are susceptible to dust, and will eventually wear out.
My experience with potentiometer based pedals is that for 6 or so months they're fine, then one or more of the pedals starts spiking. This can be temporarily cured by spraying electronic contact cleaner into the pots, however this needs to be done more and more regularly until after another 6 months the pots need to be completely stripped, cleaned and reassembled. Then after another 6 months they're basically gone, completely worn out. Somehow I just chew through pedal sets.
I would never spend big money on potentiometer based pedals. in fact what I'm doing at the moment is picking up the odd G29 whenever they get discounted so I always have a pedal set in hand - I now have 2 unused wheels, but only one unused pedal set, and my current pedal set is beginning to need regular attention.
I've not yet decided how deep down the rabbit hole I'm going to go with sim racing equipment, and honestly I'm doing perfectly fine with the G29, so a $150 every year to 18 months is not too bad to keep me going. But, if I was to go "High End" then it'll be load cell and hall effect pedals at a minimum.
Do as I do; use your pedals for a couple of months, stop using them for two years or sell them. After two years buy another G27 and start using these again for a few months. Stop using them again for a couple of years, and so on .....
If you do as I do, potentiometers are not an issue at all.
ProtoSimTech uses a real industrial grade potentiometers which are much more reliable and durable than those in mass-produced pedals.
That was exactly my experience.
That's great, but I'm not going to buy into a product from a firm that's shutting down at the end of the year.
Check their front webpage - https://www.protosimtech.com/
@Slapped If you are good at DIY things this will help you.
is there a way to use these new pedals with a g25/g27/g29???