Touring Car discussion - WTCC, BTCC etcTouring Cars 

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TCR is to me an entry level series only. It's primarily hatch based, and the whole BoP-Touring car concept to me goes against the very reason behind touring car racing.
 
Holdenhsvgtsr
We also got someone over here with one in a club series bought brand spanking new.
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Although we get everything like vantage GT3's, British GT ultima's and Marcos's and old super touring btcc cars.
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Lol, I was just to the right when that photo was taken :D
 
MatskiMonk
Still a terrible, terrible circuit though. Narrow concrete chutes don't produce the best racing IMHO.

Happy for Coronel and Ravaglia though.
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I'll agree it was pretty terrible for spectating a race, but it looks like it would be a fun challenge drive on.


Unreleated, but I forgot to mention how much I am enjoying the lead commentator's (name?) willingness to go in on people when it's necessary. Doesn't matter if it's something about the series organizers, Citroen/Lopez, race director, TV director, or Valente causing a collision in nearly every race, he voices his opinion! It's a refreshing change.

And I agree, Hugo Maldonado is the Pastor Valente of WTCC
 
Furinkazen
TCR is to me an entry level series only. It's primarily hatch based, and the whole BoP-Touring car concept to me goes against the very reason behind touring car racing.
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TCR isn't a "series", it's a technical regulation category than many new series (and a few existing series) have adopted.

I reckon BoP makes more sense in touring car racing than any other category of motorport. I don't watch touring car racing for car development, but for big grids and close door-to-door racing. BoP keeps the racing close and the cost effectiveness of a BoP category fosters larger grids. Furthermore, without the BoP based TCR, touring cars would be all but dead outside of the UK and Argentina. The interest just isn't there to support high cost championships; with modern technology development being as expensive as it is, TCR is by far the best solution for a touring car series in the likes of Italy and the Benelux.

The fact that the first 3 rounds of the TCR International Series have been fantastic racing goes to show that it works on track as well. The first two rounds of the ADAC TCR series haven't been bad either. Once more cars rise to join the Honda, Seat and VW in competitiveness, it'll be even better.
 
I like the TCR regs, and agree that it helps promote close racing, which is what I look for in TC racing.

Would I like to see 100% production based, no BoP, and still have close racing - yes, of course. Sadly, I think we know we won't be seeing that any time soon, mostly due to money.

I also like TCR Int. running in parallel with WTCC. Obviously WTCC has its issues, but I like the idea of having a rather extreme FWD series, were the FWD concept can be pushed to its limit.

I would like to see TCR take steps to include RWD platforms, like the BTCC. The dynamic between the two drivetrain configurations is one of my favorite things to pay attention to.

I also wish TCR raced on less (none!) grade 1 circuits.
 
twitcher
I would like to see TCR take steps to include RWD platforms, like the BTCC.
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I wouldn't. As far as I know, there's only one 4 or 5 door C-segment car currently being produced on a RWD platform: the BMW 1-Series. And if rumours are true, the next 1-Series will be FWD based like the rest of it's competitors. There soon won't be any RWD platforms to include.

I personally don't like the complication of mixing FWD, AWD and RWD cars in a single racing category. Certain cars will have massive inherent advantages over others in terms of standing starts, tire wear, and wet performance. If you attempt to equalize with compromises elsewhere, races tend to become predictable because the BoP can't consider weather conditions. An example of this consequence occurs in GTE: when the track is wet, the rear-engined 911s gain a massive unrecoverable traction advantage over the rest of the field. A level playing field in the dry becomes slanted when you add water. I don't think it's worth it when the donor cars are almost exclusively FF to start with.
 
SagarisGTB
I wouldn't. As far as I know, there's only one 4 or 5 door C-segment car currently being produced on a RWD platform: the BMW 1-Series. And if rumours are true, the next 1-Series will be FWD based like the rest of it's competitors. There soon won't be any RWD platforms to include.

I personally don't like the complication of mixing FWD, AWD and RWD cars in a single racing category. Certain cars will have massive inherent advantages over others in terms of standing starts, tire wear, and wet performance. If you attempt to equalize with compromises elsewhere, races tend to become predictable because the BoP can't consider weather conditions. An example of this consequence occurs in GTE: when the track is wet, the rear-engined 911s gain a massive unrecoverable traction advantage over the rest of the field. A level playing field in the dry becomes slanted when you add water. I don't think it's worth it when the donor cars are almost exclusively FF to start with.
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Those are some good points. I do love watching cars with different drive trains do battle, bur it's probably more trouble than it's worth these days.
 
Not to sound like a complete noob but BoP means Ballast of Performance? :O


I think as well that TCR is the way to go. TCR even managed to get the series into South America. The concept is in my opinion great. The field is close and manufacturers show interest which is a good thing. Sweden is in the talks of adopting the TCR as well to replace the STCC regulations. The concept has been proven already. Huge amount of interest, great coverage, easy accessible for manufacturers and most importantly fans!

The drivers do very well and although the costs of running those cars is much less than WTCC or BTCC it still attracks many very good drivers. I think that WTCC will vanish in its current form and maybe even adapt TCR?! It could be the whole motivation for Lotti behind it. I think with TCR he has gold in his hands.
 
Holdenhsvgtsr
V8 supercars better still though.
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Considering the Current regulations have put the series in the worst state it's been in about a decade, I would say it's significantly worse then a regulation that has brought massive car numbers and car brands to what was looking like a dying series, in fact it's not even comparable.

And if your talking about the cars themselves they were better before the COTF regs.
 
doblocruiser
Not to sound like a complete noob but BoP means Ballast of Performance? :O


I think as well that TCR is the way to go. TCR even managed to get the series into South America. The concept is in my opinion great. The field is close and manufacturers show interest which is a good thing. Sweden is in the talks of adopting the TCR as well to replace the STCC regulations. The concept has been proven already. Huge amount of interest, great coverage, easy accessible for manufacturers and most importantly fans!

The drivers do very well and although the costs of running those cars is much less than WTCC or BTCC it still attracks many very good drivers. I think that WTCC will vanish in its current form and maybe even adapt TCR?! It could be the whole motivation for Lotti behind it. I think with TCR he has gold in his hands.
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mustafur
Untill it proves otherwise NGTC is still better at this point.
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Holdenhsvgtsr
V8 supercars better still though.
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Why no-one else adapts NGTC is beyond me. Considering within 5 years the BTCC has the largest single-class grids in it's history, it is an obvious success story. Also V8s are perhaps the worst example going, the series is literally about to die and become Formula Holden. TCR is just "meh" to me. Perhaps its the cars. Majority are tiny hatchbacks with some shocking aero (that Alfa cannot be defended), as opposed to the traditional touring car mantle of larger saloons and bodyshapes. That said, TCR I think will make it's way over to the UK eventually in one way, just not for a few years.
 
Furinkazen
Why no-one else adapts NGTC is beyond me. Considering within 5 years the BTCC has the largest single-class grids in it's history, it is an obvious success story. Also V8s are perhaps the worst example going, the series is literally about to die and become Formula Holden. TCR is just "meh" to me. Perhaps its the cars. Majority are tiny hatchbacks with some shocking aero (that Alfa cannot be defended), as opposed to the traditional touring car mantle of larger saloons and bodyshapes. That said, TCR I think will make it's way over to the UK eventually in one way, just not for a few years.
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I don't see TCR coming here.

Why NGTC hasn't been successful elsewhere you could look at various aspects when looking at things such as spec parts, single suppliers etc. Remember STCC did adopt it and drop it quickly.
 
Holdenhsvgtsr
I don't see TCR coming here.

Why NGTC hasn't been successful elsewhere you could look at various aspects when looking at things such as spec parts, single suppliers etc. Remember STCC did adopt it and drop it quickly.
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Did STCC ever even have it? I remember a giant furor over plans to adapt the regs, which is how TTA came about.
 
Just sat down to watch TCR from Imola.

There's three (3!) women on the grid, which I think is great 👍 Has there ever been 3 women on a grid for an international series?

One of these women has a "grid guy". This, I fully and whole heartedly do not support 👎 Please just...just no :grumpy:......:lol:

Edit: the Alfa seems to be missing, so I think it's just 2 women

Edit 2: This might be one of the funniest races I've seen in a while. It's seriously like watching a pCARS replay :lol: Love this track so much!!
 
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It has been great racing and that Comini guy is such a (fast) clown. Really like him 👍 Great move he and Vernay pulled on Oriola :D

The Alfa was missing as well as the Subaru and Opels. They are working hard to make improvements. Would like to see them joining quickly so the field is more diverse.

Imola was great fun to watch :bowdown:

The gridboys..no that is not possible...:lol: What I did like is that the grid girls and boys where all related to the organisers and track marchals. No professional girls, but all local Italians 👍

This series is simply awesome!
 
Looks like the TCR Alfa Romeo is getting a new livery (and a 2nd car?);
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Could be for a different series, I'm not really up to date with all the TCR's atm...(just assuming it's the International series because of Cerruti).

It looks a lot better then it did! Here's a pic of it just in plain red too;
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The plain red and new livery make the bodywork look a lot nicer and not like some plastic glued on the car :lol:
 
SagarisGTB
ETCC front-runner Petr Fulin will be in the second car for the Salzburgring rounds (International Series). If the car is sorted, Fulin should go well, he's a solid driver.
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Thanks for the info! :)
 


Great racing this weekend in the TCR series. I am really sad for the Alfa's though. What a pity it went down like that for them.
 
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