trans am depot

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hey I don't know if someone posted this but if so, then how come GM killed pontiac? 'cause there's a website that shows the 2012 7t7 trans am, 6t9 goat, 6t9 trans am and the hurst trans am. the website called transamdepot.com
 
That is a site for body kits that can be purchased for the Camaro to make it look like Pontiac cars.
Based on the Camaro platform...
Again, these cars started out as Camaros, and were customized to look like Pontiacs. Pontiac is still dead.
 
I wish that would happen. GM can survive without Pontiac, but needless to say, it would be quite amazing to see Pontiac return. Still a little heartbroken not seeing what today's Pontiacs would look like.
 
...then how come GM killed pontiac?

TL;DR - Too much product overlap

Throughout the 20th century, GM's entire model existed on the idea that there needed to be tiered brands in order to appeal to a wide number of people. As time went on, that began to change significantly as each brand sought to build cars that better matched whatever kind of internal identity they thought they had. From the early/mid '60s onward, the amount of overlap between Chevrolet and Pontiac, as well as Buick and Oldsmobile became far too great. As much as DeLorean wanted to make Pontiac the pirate, punky, edgy brand that it was for a little while... It couldn't last.

Fast forward to the downfall of the late '90s and early '00s and it was all too much. Pontiacs were nothing more than slightly more edgy versions of Chevrolet products. More creases on the doorsill, with some body cladding, and heavier steering was all it took to make a Malibu and Grand Am. It wasn't as though they weren't selling cars (they were), but, that too much time in development was being split between both models. As such, the quality and performance of the cars suffered greatly, and combined with split advertising, the ability for GM to effectively market both brands was significantly diminishing.

Sure, I think there is an argument that could have been made to save Pontiac and let them sell only specialty vehicles in Chevrolet showrooms. But, the problem is then, what is the identity of a Pontiac? Is it nothing more than a special Chevrolet with an arrowhead on the hood? Again, it goes back to the same problem...

Killing Pontiac, Saturn, Saab and Oldsmobile was the right move. It's saved GM money, it has increased their ability to develop better and more competitive products, and it has allowed them to keep the brands that average consumers (not enthusiasts) identify with most. I can't blame them. Without making those cuts, we wouldn't have class-leading products like the Sonic, Impala, ATS and more.
 
According to Bob Lutz, Pontiac was to receive a major overhaul of it's lineup. All RWD lineup, ATS based G6, new GTO, etc.

It was the government that told GM "No bail out money unless Pontiac goes".

China was the reason Buick was rescued from the gallows, even though Tiger Woods couldn't even sell them in the US.
 
@YSSMAN

Pretty close, but I prefer to say straight up that GM mismanagement is what killed Pontiac, via what I like to call "brand dilution".

Remember, until the mid-70s, each of GM's brands were extremely distinct. They had their own styling studios and even engineering staffs turning out their own stuff. Buick, Oldsmobile, and Pontiac used significantly different engines that Chevrolet, and sometimes differed among themselves as well, while GMC was usually "Chevy Truck +1", with a few unique ideas such as their mega-displacement V6 engines. Inefficient, perhaps, but it gave buyers a reason to choose one over another depending on what they needed, wanted, and were willing to spend.

Then, someone somewhere decided that inefficiency wasn't worth its benefits to brand differentiation, and so all GM brands, at least to a significant degree, would share bodyshells and running gear. Furthermore, they decided that, in order to be all things to all people, every possible brand should have a version of every possible car, which leads to things like selling the same car under four different names with, often, only superficial differences. Additionally, in order to achieve even greater practicality and efficiency, every car would be designed by criteria, with differentiation being reduced to throwing a few brand cues on a common overall shape and putting a nice shiny bow tie, arrowhead, or coat of arms on it. Don't believe me, read Car Guys vs. Bean Counters: The Battle for the Soul of American Business by Bob Lutz. He saw it from the inside in full detail.

And that's how Pontiac went from selling low-budget luxury coupes and factory racers to selling slightly "sportified" versions of mind-numbing Chevrolets. My own car is a perfect example: the Pontiac Sunbird was just a Chevrolet Cavalier wearing a polo shirt and slacks for a job interveiw. In every detail related to going, stopping, or turning, it was the same car, and you could probably get a lot of the same equipment too. GM's minivans are another: From the beginning, the same car was sold as a Chevrolet, an Oldsmobile, and a Pontiac, and after Oldsmobile was cut, they added a Buick version and a Saturn version for the vehicle's third generation. The Chevrolet Equinox could also be had as a Pontiac. The Solstice had a Saturn variant, which I honestly think looked better than the Solstice anyway. They did occasionally throw the performance/practicality buyer a bone, such as with the Torrent GXP, or the performance variants of the FWD Grand Prix that could easily outrun any Chevrolet or GMC (and perhaps sometimes Buick) product on the same platform until the Impala and Monte Carlo got the 231/SC, but for the most part Pontiac had become an empty shell kept around to attract incremental volume. The image of performance remained, carefully maintained by what little advertising GM still did, but the cars were boring enough to pass muster as rentals - and very often, they did.

Meanwhile, along comes the Aztek and, instead of cashing in on the midsize crossover trend that was about hit the scene, it sponged up desperately needed moniez while scaring away potential buyers with its high price and wretched styling.

Perhaps if the Aztek had been better planned (and styled), if the recession had happened a little later, or if GM had started to shore up its legacy cost issues sooner, Pontiac could have been saved, but as it is, when the excrement finally hit the rapidly rotating blade assembly, Pontiac was still a bit too close to ground zero. With a blend of performance and practicality seemingly finding less and less favor by the day (at least if this site is an accurate view of mainstream car enthusiasts), they just weren't worth trying to save at that point.

According to Bob Lutz, Pontiac was to receive a major overhaul of it's lineup. All RWD lineup, ATS based G6, new GTO, etc.

It was the government that told GM "No bail out money unless Pontiac goes".

China was the reason Buick was rescued from the gallows, even though Tiger Woods couldn't even sell them in the US.

I'm almost willing to call conspiracy on that one. Well, maybe not conspiracy, but perhaps opportunism. I mean, come on, one of the most leftist administrations in history making the removal of the company's low-budget performance brand a condition of assistance? Seems to me those people knew about GM's plans for Pontiac, and didn't like the idea of a "car guy's perfect lineup" actually making it into production.
 
@YSSMAN
I'm almost willing to call conspiracy on that one. Well, maybe not conspiracy, but perhaps opportunism. I mean, come on, one of the most leftist administrations in history making the removal of the company's low-budget performance brand a condition of assistance? Seems to me those people knew about GM's plans for Pontiac, and didn't like the idea of a "car guy's perfect lineup" actually making it into production.

It came from Bob Lutz himself who was in charge of GM product development, and he said it more than a couple times.

During the bail out hearings, the Feds asked GM execs "How much profit has Pontiac made in recent years?"

The answer GM execs gave was "None", so the gubment said no money unless Pontiac is killed/sold.
 
With a blend of performance and practicality seemingly finding less and less favor by the day (at least if this site is an accurate view of mainstream car enthusiasts), they just weren't worth trying to save at that point.

This site hates practical and high performance cars.

Votes hot hatches to cool/sub zero almost every time.

You can't explain that.
 
This site hates practical and high performance cars.

Votes hot hatches to cool/sub zero almost every time.

You can't explain that.

Finally! Someone that sees this as well!
 
Finally! Someone that sees this as well!

The point was that this site doesn't hate practical and high performance cars. Not some inherent hypocrisy in liking hot hatches or whatever.
 
I know, but this site is extremely biased in the sense that every car NEEDS to be a hot hatch or Miata with a 1.2L engine. It's getting really annoying.
 
I know, but this site is extremely biased in the sense that every car NEEDS to be a hot hatch or Miata with a 1.2L engine. It's getting really annoying.

Gonna call you on that one. The irony is how many threads you've gone into and immediately dismissed a car because it had 2 or 4 too few cylinders for you and said something to the effect of "my friends would laugh at you if you drove a 4 cylinder". And everyone else is supposedly closed minded because they don't think a 40 year old F250 is God's gift to motoring. Take a look at the cool wall results, In Sub Zero you have a Shelby Cobra, Plymouth Superbird, a Shelby GT500, '64-'66 Mustang, C3 Corvette, Dodge Viper, C1 Corvette, Dodge Challenger, and a Willys Jeep among other cars of various ages, purposes, and origins.

How can you look at that list and conclude that people here think "every car needs to be a hot hatch or Miata?" This site is a global community and outside of North America it isn't practical or affordable to drive a big car or truck with a huge engine. That's why you're seeing "everyone" liking cars like the Miata, because they're useful and fun in both North American cities and in Europe while it's hard to really use a big American car outside of the US.

When people have discussions in the Auto News section they're generally speaking in a real world/business context and the fact is the vast majority of cars sold today do not need any more than 4 cylinders, and most buyers don't want more than 4 cylinders because they don't want to pay obscene fuel prices if it's avoidable.

The reality is that a Miata, or hot hatch is a more realistic purchase for car enthusiasts around the world than a muscle car or big truck. That's why people are saying it, because it isn't all that hard to offer a hot version of an economy car and for most buyers it's the easiest way to get into a performance car when you have a family, expenses (a truck racks up the fuel bills quickly), or hobbies (I can't carry my hockey gear in a Mustang). The truck thing just comes down to fuel prices. Outside of North America they're prohibitively expensive and usually just plain too big to use practically outside of a work environment. It's not about people hating V8's and wanting every car to be a Miata, it's about the realities of the modern world that the posters here live in, and for most people who want a car to have fun in it's much more accessible to get a Miata than a car with a bigger engine.
 
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The thing about that, though, is that many of those discussions take place in Cool Wall-related threads... and issues of practicality have very little place there (except when talking about station wagons, which became cool after crossovers became a thing because they can do just about anything a crossover will be used for, while being better at car things like going, stopping, and turning).

The Miata may very well be a fun to drive, easy to own car, and in fact I almost had one as a first car (sorry, but I'm not paying $6,000 for a first gen with a ripped top and ugly chrome taillights), but it'll never be cool because it's too cutesy looking and its engine is the size of a soda bottle. The Fiat 500 - great economy car, I'm sure, but still crushingly uncool. Same with the Mini Cooper. Effectively any inline-4 car has the same problem. So does mine, to be honest, except it has that big engine to lift it above pretty much any FWD compact except the Ford Probe. Practicality and anonymity are not cool. A flashy or aggressive-looking car is not automatically uncool.

And yes, I agree with Slashfan here, and I have for some time. Usually when anyone mentions my car's engine, it's to comment on how little specific output it has, as if that's actually important somehow or is actually a detriment to the car's coolness level.
 
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