Tuning cars in GT5

[MacBaby]

What i dislike about the previous GT tuning concept is, that how much you can tune the car (how many horses you can pull out of it) is dependable on the cars stock HP.

For example. The Golf IV GTI 1.8T '01 with 150 stock turbocharged horsepowers. This car has a max tuned-horsepower of merely 301 HP! In real life, this 301 HP can be achieved, by simply swapping the turbo, exhaust, intercooler and air filter. A minor project around 3000 dollars. In real life, a max-tuned Golf IV GTI would end up on about 700-800 HP (considered the engine has been bored up to 2,0 litres.) In real life, the same car, can be tuned from the stock 150 to 200 HP with a chip-tuning. In GT4, the same thing will give you like 10 HP on that car.

I miss, that the engines displacement is the only fact that limits the power you can achieve from an engine, just like in real life.

I miss, that you have the ability to regulate the turbo pressure for instance. The higher turbo pressure, the more engine wear, but the higher horsepower and vise versa. I miss that you need to be more strategic when you construct your cars, and that especially engine wear and service is more critical, than you just slap on your tuning, change oil, and floor the throttle for a 24 hour race without an engine breakdown, like in GT4.

 

[Stonemonkey]

It can be done, but it shouldn't. It is too much trouble to accuratley simulate the affects of an engine/drivetrain swap unless they test every single combination in real life (exclduing combinations that cannot be done). Forza have not done this, the engine swaps will probably only have a subtle affect on the sound and change the straightline speed. But changing the handling characteristics of cars is not good. The chassis and suspension are usually designed to work with the drivetrain. Take a Ferrari F430 and put a front wheel drive system in it, you cannot accurately measure the affect on the car's handling without testing it, the same way they find out how all other cars handle.

Does changing the drivetrain effect weight in Forza 3? I know for a fact a 4WD system is heavy in comparison to an mid engined rear wheel drive car, because they need to find a way to get the power to the front, its not going to happen by magic. Not to mention 4WD adds an element of understeer which requires adjustment of the chassis, suspension, weight distribution to compensate. If it doesn't Forza is flawed, why implement a feature that they cannot implement accurately? In some respects, that is the approach of Kaz, if it can't be done accurately, don't do it at all. (there are exceptions to that of course, if that statement were true in every respect, GT would never have existed)

Having said that, i hope the tuning of the engine etc. is improved upon from previous GT games. Adding a turbo should also add weight for example. And fitting racing brakes may also have an affect on weight. Weight distribution should also be very important when tuning a car.

I don't have much opinion on how the tuning should be done in the game but I disagree with some of what you're saying. A well written physics engine can deal with changing the weight of a car or moving the weight around, deal with changing the engines characteristics and how the power is transmitted through the transmission/drivetrain to the tyres. From what I've heard GT5 is using a single physics model for all cars in all conditions so as long as you know the characteristics, weight and location of the components going into the car it can be modelled. Things like over/understeer aren't programmed into the cars, the physics engine uses the cars details like weight distribution, dimensions, fwd/rwd, chassis/wheel geometry etc. to simulate that.

 

[loki993]

What i dislike about the previous GT tuning concept is, that how much you can tune the car (how many horses you can pull out of it) is dependable on the cars stock HP.

For example. The Golf IV GTI 1.8T '01 with 150 stock turbocharged horsepowers. This car has a max tuned-horsepower of merely 301 HP! In real life, this 301 HP can be achieved, by simply swapping the turbo, exhaust, intercooler and air filter. A minor project around 3000 dollars. In real life, a max-tuned Golf IV GTI would end up on about 700-800 HP (considered the engine has been bored up to 2,0 litres.) In real life, the same car, can be tuned from the stock 150 to 200 HP with a chip-tuning. In GT4, the same thing will give you like 10 HP on that car.

I miss, that the engines displacement is the only fact that limits the power you can achieve from an engine, just like in real life.

I miss, that you have the ability to regulate the turbo pressure for instance. The higher turbo pressure, the more engine wear, but the higher horsepower and vise versa. I miss that you need to be more strategic when you construct your cars, and that especially engine wear and service is more critical, than you just slap on your tuning, change oil, and floor the throttle for a 24 hour race without an engine breakdown, like in GT4.

I agree with you about the HP limit that were placed on cars in previous games, but I feel it was more arbitrary than merely displacement. The examples that I remember the most are the GNX, which maxed at around 5 or 600 hp and the GT40 which maxed at about the same I think. the motors in those cars were both far capable of much more power.

I also remember the first GT game in which the Skyline was the most powerful tuned car in the game by far.

The HP limit is more a testament to the linear nature of the tuning in game though.

 

[Seismica]

I agree with you about the HP limit that were placed on cars in previous games, but I feel it was more arbitrary than merely displacement. The examples that I remember the most are the GNX, which maxed at around 5 or 600 hp and the GT40 which maxed at about the same I think. the motors in those cars were both far capable of much more power.

I also remember the first GT game in which the Skyline was the most powerful tuned car in the game by far.

The HP limit is more a testament to the linear nature of the tuning in game though.

I thought the most powerful car in GT1 was the Mitsubishi GTO?

As for the HP limits, i have no idea. But i was under the impression that the size of the engine only plays part of the story. Over the years the power given by the same size engine has been improved dramatically. Thats probably why the GT40 was so limited, because a V8 from the 60s is probably cannot be upgraded to the same extent as a V8 from the past few years, without effectively rebuilding the whole engine.

 

[PierPressure#1]

Give me a wind tunnel and a dyno, and I will be playing this game for endless years.

And a 4 corner scale,movable ballast ,skid pad and tire pressure adjustment.



....................................................................Larry

 

[mazdaman]

Or puting a quadrotor single turbo in an 2nd gen rx7.

 

[loki993]

I thought the most powerful car in GT1 was the Mitsubishi GTO?

As for the HP limits, i have no idea. But i was under the impression that the size of the engine only plays part of the story. Over the years the power given by the same size engine has been improved dramatically. Thats probably why the GT40 was so limited, because a V8 from the 60s is probably cannot be upgraded to the same extent as a V8 from the past few years, without effectively rebuilding the whole engine.

maybe it was, I always thought it was the skyline, I think its was over 1000hp.

whatever criteria they use for the tuning, it really need to change. Its tired and too limited, thats what I think. If they implemented a more realistic tuning model in the game it could almost become a game within the game as others have said. You could have hours of fun without even doing a race.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Pretty sure no car hit 4 digits in GT1 without hybrids. R33 hit 944hp, GTO was 930, Supra was 910... maybe. My memory is foggy. All in garage view outputs, though.

The tuning aspect needs a revamp. I haven't really thought about how they would go about it too much, but it's obvious the system, essentially the same since GT1, is now outdated. It also looks like we'll never get the R-mods back in the same capacity we used to have them, which is a shame.

 

[JM1681]

...Dhalback Racing, in Sweden I believe, Took a VW golf and swapped in a Audi I5 and AWD system...

Can't believe I didn't notice your post earlier.

Check the vid I posted a couple posts up. Same drivetrain as their Golf in a Polo

 

[chepu]

Pretty sure no car hit 4 digits in GT1 without hybrids. R33 hit 944hp, GTO was 930, Supra was 910... maybe. My memory is foggy. All in garage view outputs, though.

The tuning aspect needs a revamp. I haven't really thought about how they would go about it too much, but it's obvious the system, essentially the same since GT1, is now outdated. It also looks like we'll never get the R-mods back in the same capacity we used to have them, which is a shame.

Im not Hoping for a Racing Modification, Im hoping for all External body modifications so you can choose to what extent you want your car modified.

 

[loki993]

Pretty sure no car hit 4 digits in GT1 without hybrids. R33 hit 944hp, GTO was 930, Supra was 910... maybe. My memory is foggy. All in garage view outputs, though.

The tuning aspect needs a revamp. I haven't really thought about how they would go about it too much, but it's obvious the system, essentially the same since GT1, is now outdated. It also looks like we'll never get the R-mods back in the same capacity we used to have them, which is a shame.

Its been so long Its hard to remember, maybe the skyline hit 4 digits in 2, but who knows.

yeah the R mods were great, one of my favorite mods in the game really. I remember, what was it a dodge avenger or something that the R mod was a drag car with a huge scoop, that one was interesting. Maybe well get something else though, where we could do our own R mods.

Can't believe I didn't notice your post earlier.

Check the vid I posted a couple posts up. Same drivetrain as their Golf in a Polo

Yeah, Ive seen then all. I really hole they get some of those nutmobiles in the game. I really like their Sport Quattro too, wish we could get those in the States.

 

[JM1681]

I had a hybrid Lupo in GT3 that was pretty much a Dahlback car. 900hp, AWD, Turbocharged S2000 Racecar motor (For the 10,000rpm redline), and F1 Wheels/Tires.

It was pretty much impossible to drive, but hella fun

Physical modifications aside, I think a limited version of what would basically be considered hybrid building (Limited in that the engine and drivetrain components must physically fit the car you're swapping them into) would satisfy my wants for GT5 tuning. Though I would like to be able to Turbo or Supercharge (Or twin-charge) anything, as in reality anything can be supercharged, turbocharged or twin-charged.

 

[nethereal]

Aero modifications in a WIND tunnel PLEASE!

I have to agree , custom aero mods on wingtype body extensions would be killer. and to extend that - a custom care body modshop. ie: take existing bodys, allow players to modify from a preset body (of any car - allowing the addition of deflectors / wings, and actually tweaking the shape/mesh of the original preset body).
i know it's pretty far fetched, but i dont see it being impossible.
You could use the system in Spore as a fine example of how to create an interface for something like that. And the scene could be your car realtime in a wind tunnel. PD would love to do something like that, especially seeing how they like to focus the menu system on your currently selected car. have the streams of smoke running realtime on the car as you modify it...
would be an awesome addition and allow for true body customisation...

 

[RazzlDazzle]

I would kill to be able to have my own "tuning company", and put a small logo on the cars I make and sell to others, just like some real tuning companies.

 

[GTAnders]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but this was the only tuning-thread that wasnt 90% about livery editors.

The tuning scene in GT5 should be more like in real life.
A way of combining easy tuning and advanced tuning:

An average car-owner (or player in GT5) that would like more power, is going to the manufacture and chooses Stage 1, 2, 3, 4, engine tuning. And all the necessary parts are changed to get a reliable setup.

Or, the more experienced tuner, is going to different performance stores to pick out the turbo, ic, injectors, pistons, ect. of his choise for the desired setup. This way of tuning is cheaper, but more risky (Dont forget to install an uprated oilpump and oilcooler). And you would have to use a dyno service after changing a major engine part to maximise the power.

And the same system about handling:

At the manufacture you get handlig package stage 1, 2, 3, 4, or you could go out picking up different coilovers, braces, polybushes, ....

 

[shirakawaa]

Yes, I think there should be more focus on the reliability issue, that drivetrain modifications are a double edged sword. I like the idea of easy and ready, maybe not optimal but reliable "packages", and then more advanced settings/parts selection for more advanced users.

However it's not only the engine that needs work after increasing power, but also the transmission, chassis, etc.

In real life, even fitting slick tires to a road legal car will cause on the medium term problems to suspensions and chassis due to the much higher loads than with normal tires.

 

[DroogsDontRun]

I hope they dont make it to difficult or make it more user friendly. I dont race online with gt5p anymore because its constantly different performance points and you have to have like 50 different tunes saved or have to scourer the internet for a decent tune to have an even playing field with the people that sit on the game all day and have cars that destroy stock cars with less weight and added power for max pp, basically I dont feel like testing a virtual car for days on end to be able to have an equal advantage, I just want to play the game. Running a perfect lap and still getting beat 4+ seconds a lap is what ruined online play for me. And its not my driving on the time trials im under 2000 place on every track with the f1, just venting really but I really hope the game isnt so dominated by "fan boys".

 

[GDII]

Pretty sure no car hit 4 digits in GT1 without hybrids. R33 hit 944hp, GTO was 930, Supra was 910... maybe. My memory is foggy. All in garage view outputs, though.

The tuning aspect needs a revamp. I haven't really thought about how they would go about it too much, but it's obvious the system, essentially the same since GT1, is now outdated. It also looks like we'll never get the R-mods back in the same capacity we used to have them, which is a shame.

I remember the R34 from GT2 got around 770hp and in GT3 it got to 1048hp. GT4 only around 950 with the PD pace car looking one.

 

[Spacegoat]

I would kill to be able to have my own "tuning company", and put a small logo on the cars I make and sell to others, just like some real tuning companies.

That's a cool idea.👍

 

[Lilday]

If you get high up on the leader-boards for either drift or time trial, and people message you asking for your tuned cars, would you share the wealth, or keep it to yourself?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I hope they dont make it to difficult or make it more user friendly. I dont race online with gt5p anymore because its constantly different performance points and you have to have like 50 different tunes saved or have to scourer the internet for a decent tune to have an even playing field with the people that sit on the game all day and have cars that destroy stock cars with less weight and added power for max pp, basically I dont feel like testing a virtual car for days on end to be able to have an equal advantage, I just want to play the game. Running a perfect lap and still getting beat 4+ seconds a lap is what ruined online play for me. And its not my driving on the time trials im under 2000 place on every track with the f1, just venting really but I really hope the game isnt so dominated by "fan boys".

"Fan boys" doesn't usually refer to people who are just good at the game. Being under 2000 on the leaderboards in the F1 isn't very indicative of what you can do though; that's just one car, and it's very, very different from the road cars. You should try taking some stock street cars around and see what you can manage there... I cracked the top 100 in one unexpected combo on London (forget which car), and I'm still on a DS3. Diversify, and it'll help you later on when you do have to tune, since you'll know what works for you.

Lilday - I think I'd share. If it was for some sort of contest, probably not, but it's just a game, and I know I've borrowed settings from faster people in the past online. Call it setting karma .

 

[arthurenzo]

I would kill to be able to have my own "tuning company", and put a small logo on the cars I make and sell to others, just like some real tuning companies.

That would be cool

 

[DroogsDontRun]

"Fan boys" doesn't usually refer to people who are just good at the game. Being under 2000 on the leaderboards in the F1 isn't very indicative of what you can do though; that's just one car, and it's very, very different from the road cars. You should try taking some stock street cars around and see what you can manage there... I cracked the top 100 in one unexpected combo on London (forget which car), and I'm still on a DS3. Diversify, and it'll help you later on when you do have to tune, since you'll know what works for you.

Lilday - I think I'd share. If it was for some sort of contest, probably not, but it's just a game, and I know I've borrowed settings from faster people in the past online. Call it setting karma .

I do diversify, I have gold in all events but one and a few good tunes that I found here that easily put me in first as long as I make no mistakes but I think thats just because the people I am racing dont have a proper tune, and without a good tune you stand no chance and the events are always changing so your constantly looking for a good tune that fits your driving style or spend hours testing, it just gets old real fast.

 

[analog]

I do diversify, I have gold in all events but one and a few good tunes that I found here that easily put me in first as long as I make no mistakes but I think thats just because the people I am racing dont have a proper tune, and without a good tune you stand no chance and the events are always changing so your constantly looking for a good tune that fits your driving style or spend hours testing, it just gets old real fast.

Welcome to a simulator I would say, ofcourse tuning and finetuning will have a major impact, these subtleties having often a huge effect is one of the most attractive elements of a GT-game to me.
Not saying I'm particularly good at it ( meaning there are people who can make the same car faster on a certain track than I can ) but I enjoy tinkering with the set-up and it doesn't take hours and hours of testing to find one that's suitable to my driving style, just a basic understanding of what effect certain changes have on the handling aspects of a car is often enough.

In real life tuning/set-up is one of the most important aspects of racing, not just the fastest 'default' setting but what works best for the individual driver.
If someone has a better tune than me, that's just another competitive element I lost as the basic material is the same for all.
To you that might be tiresome and boring, to me it's part of the fun as I'm not that bothered losing to someone who has a better understanding of all the aspects of car handling and how to implement it.

It's another form of talent or skill like driving skills, better to lose from someone who's dedicated to the game and applies that skill than being pushed into the barrier by yet another crash test dummy, now that's becoming old real fast.

 

[z33_mike]

I just brought this up to a friend a few nights ago. It would be awesome if they let you choose the right setup. For example, if you wanted forced induction ( turbo, twin turbo, or supercharger ) you can choose the cam for FI. Same thing with pistons. You would choose lower compression for FI and higher for NA. I think it would at more to the game for those more experienced with this.

If you build a FI monster on stock internals and such, it should lead to engine failure during a race. As well as transmission failures. A little off topic here, but I hope you can hear the turbos/superchargers as much as forza, that also adds a lot to the gaming and tuning scene as well.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I just brought this up to a friend a few nights ago. It would be awesome if they let you choose the right setup. For example, if you wanted forced induction ( turbo, twin turbo, or supercharger ) you can choose the cam for FI. Same thing with pistons. You would choose lower compression for FI and higher for NA. I think it would at more to the game for those more experienced with this.

If you build a FI monster on stock internals and such, it should lead to engine failure during a race. As well as transmission failures. A little off topic here, but I hope you can hear the turbos/superchargers as much as forza, that also adds a lot to the gaming and tuning scene as well.

I could be wrong, but I feel like it's mentioned somewhere in the tuning part descriptions in GT4 that certain turbo kits also include different engine internals. Can't load it up to check, though.

Turbo noise levels definitely change depending on the turbo kit installed. It's more subdued now compared to the frankly OTT GT2 version.

 

[phillookswasted]

Am I the one of the few that doesn't want NOS in the game?

 

[wolfke]

Am I the one of the few that doesn't want NOS in the game?

install a NOS system me 2 👍

you can buy it in gt4. maybe in gt5. 2 i hope.

 

[DroogsDontRun]

Welcome to a simulator I would say, ofcourse tuning and finetuning will have a major impact, these subtleties having often a huge effect is one of the most attractive elements of a GT-game to me.
Not saying I'm particularly good at it ( meaning there are people who can make the same car faster on a certain track than I can ) but I enjoy tinkering with the set-up and it doesn't take hours and hours of testing to find one that's suitable to my driving style, just a basic understanding of what effect certain changes have on the handling aspects of a car is often enough.

In real life tuning/set-up is one of the most important aspects of racing, not just the fastest 'default' setting but what works best for the individual driver.
If someone has a better tune than me, that's just another competitive element I lost as the basic material is the same for all.
To you that might be tiresome and boring, to me it's part of the fun as I'm not that bothered losing to someone who has a better understanding of all the aspects of car handling and how to implement it.

It's another form of talent or skill like driving skills, better to lose from someone who's dedicated to the game and applies that skill than being pushed into the barrier by yet another crash test dummy, now that's becoming old real fast.

I see your point but in real life the driver drives and tells the mechanics what he/she wants so if its supposed to be a simulator they dont have it right also if its a simulator where is the cockpit views? My point is it cant be a simulator when its convenient, in reality is a video game and more than half the people who buy this game are not going to dedicate more time to tuning than racing and when they constantly lose to greatly tuned cars they will eventually stop playing, even though there will be a cult following if the masses are not happy its not a very successful game imo.

 

[z33_mike]

I haven't played the older GTs in some time so I am unable to check/ confirm that. Thanks for input toward that as it can all ready be in the game as you stated.