Ultimate Edition playable on Sept 10 at 13:01 UTC, check your time difference and get more anxious!

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My internet went off for six hours but I could still play offline. Thank goodness this didn't happen yesterday or I would've been considerably more miffed.
 
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ClydeYellow
The Drivatars are now fully showing their potential after a serious fine tuning of their basic parameters, and all I can tell you is, "I told ya".

They are not only incredibly skilled AIs which will show, at the highest difficulties, some amazing racing drivership (with uncanny overtake and collision avoidance skills that often left me mouth agape after being overtaken effortlessly by a divebombing Drivatar); but they also seem to be picking up the quirks of their corresponding human.

Also, they will make good on their promise to humiliate you if you set the difficulty to "Unbeatable". Which should read as "the computer will be a cheating bastard".
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Even when the Drivatars are set to their easiest "New" mode, they are "cheating bastards". I've played through about 10 hours so far and the Drivatars are just terrible. This is why:

No matter what setting you leave them at, 1 to 2 Drivatars will gain "super powers". You can race them fairly until the last lap, but those 2 will magically develop an extra 100hp and pass you near the end of the race. Every. Single. Time. I have tried almost every difficulty (not unbeatable) and the same thing happens.

And once they pass you they are just GONE. There is zero hope of catching them.

This is fun? Not really. What's keeping me playing is the beautiful 60fps graphics and great cars. And the fact that the races are fun up until the last lap. Also the showcase events can be quite fun; as they seem to use entirely different AI. The showcases also have some pretty weird bugs and random AI issues though. For example; I was allowed to pretty much go full speed in my F1 around the loop; smashing opponents out of the way like they were made of paper. Nothing slowed me down. It was so bugged that I was literally laughing out loud (odd that one of the most amusing moments was clearly unintentional).

As far as AI intelligence; I'll take the Gran Turismo AI over Drivatars any day. GT AI may be stupid, but it doesn't just outright cheat. I feel like the Forza developers ran out of time and just had to hack in some boosts to make the Drivatars do what they want at the end; and the experience is terrible.

I'm not alone in seeing this. Here is a review that I find spot-on at Gamesradar.

And so we get to the racing. The problem is simple: The Drivatar system simply doesn't work. Never mind the fact some cars inexplicably tap the brakes on a straight. It doesn't matter which Avatar Difficulty you choose: on some tracks you'll win easily, while on others one or sometimes two cars will simply drive away from everyone else. You'll sometimes catch a glimpse of a dot on the track map, or a speck on the horizon, but you'll never catch them. The hardest difficulty is meant to humble you and it does. But everything below that is alarmingly inconsistent.
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I wanted Forza 6 to be amazing; I really did. I paid for an Xbox One and $100 Ultimate edition. I feel like it's a good game; but it's far short of amazing. It's a great racing game with terrible terrible AI...and that is a problem.

I could write another book on the Physics, but I'll end this now.
 
This is the first I've heard of rubberbanding AI. In the demo it didn't seem this way at all. I'll have to give it a try myself when I get home.
 
MildAshers
I haven't noticed it at all, and quoting the diabolical games radar review as back up won't convince me.
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JC_Dude
Rubberbanding is ********. I've had some races where I've finished more than 10 secs ahead of no. 2.
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The fact that I am experiencing it so consistently -- and you are not -- makes me wonder if this is some kind of weird bug. I wonder if something in my gaming history is screwing up the Drivatar system. I owned and played Forza 3 and 4, but skipped 5 and Horizon for example. Maybe this is because it is my first Drivatar enabled game?

Interestingly the two Drivatars are pretty much always labeled for two specific Xbox Live friends. Neither of these friends have played Forza 6 yet as far as I can tell. I've read elsewhere that the friends titles on Drivatars are simply there to give you motivation and may have zero link to that actual person...so who knows. It seems very confusing for someone new to Drivatars.

You may hate on the games radar reviewer; but he clearly is experiencing the same thing I am. And if you read the rest of the review; it's quite positive. Both he and I seem to be in the same "love the game; hate the AI" situation. I experienced the same feeling of "grind" he did...but it's mostly a factor of feeling like you are running the same race over and over; because of the consistent last lap experience of getting pwned. And feeling powerless to do anything about it.
 
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Since FM5 I've had nothing but clean races with the Drivitars, and have not encountered any rubberbanding to date, not even from the demo. I'm not going to totally dismiss you because I've yet to actually play the game (will get to that in a few hours actually.) But I doubt that they changed the drivatars that much, to be honest.

This video is me from FM5, but its pretty much been my experience the whole time I've been on this gen.



What level of difficulty are you experiencing this at?
 
ImaRobot
What level of difficulty are you experiencing this at?
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Since it has been a few years since I last played Forza 4, I wanted to ease back into it and just have fun at first. So I initially selected:

NEW RACER

After experiencing the magical passing 1 or 2; I tried changing to:

HIGHLY SKILLED

While slightly more difficult; I still found it possible to consistently get out front...until that last lap again. I've now been experimenting with all the other levels to see if any are better. I can't recall exactly which I have tried and not tried. I do know that I have never tried UNBEATABLE.

Changing the setting seems to modify the behavior of the majority of Drivatars; but not the 1 or 2.

I'll openly admit that I'm not a great driver. I'm a middle aged guy with slowing reflexes. I do probably have a couple thousand hours playtime in GT GT,2,3,4, 5, and 6 as well as Forza 3 and 4. I try my best to race clean and have fun though; but not when fighting cheating Drivatars ;-)
 
MK500
Since it has been a few years since I last played Forza 4, I wanted to ease back into it and just have fun at first. So I initially selected:

NEW RACER

After experiencing the magical passing 1 or 2; I tried changing to:

HIGHLY SKILLED

While slightly more difficult; I still found it possible to consistently get out front...until that last lap again. I've now been experimenting with all the other levels to see if any are better. I can't recall exactly which I have tried and not tried. I do know that I have never tried UNBEATABLE.

Changing the setting seems to modify the behavior of the majority of Drivatars; but not the 1 or 2.

I'll openly admit that I'm not a great driver. I'm a middle aged guy with slowing reflexes. I do probably have a couple thousand hours playtime in GT GT,2,3,4, 5, and 6 as well as Forza 3 and 4. I try my best to race clean and have fun though; but not when fighting cheating Drivatars ;-)
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That's just the thing though, I'm inclined to believe that you aren't racing cheating drivatars, more so that you're adapting to a game that is different then the ones you've played. From FM 4>5 I felt like I had to relearn how to race again as so much in the physics had changed that I was doing horrible. The same thing happened with 5>6, but on a smaller scale.

There is much more to take into account this time around that it can be a variety of things, since you are still pretty much fresh to the series again. So you are experiencing this mostly on Highly Skilled? I'll have to try it out, but as it sits, I'm on unbeatable so I'm not sure I'd be the best candidate to try this out, but I'll give it a shot anyways.

Play time on other games is irrelevant, as you'll have to learn how the actual game you're playing as their is going to be major differences between, lets say GT and FM. Hell, there's a great differences between just FM 4>5>6.

It's all just a bit intriguing, because this is probably the first instance that I've ever heard of rubberbanding AI from Forza.
 
MK500
Since it has been a few years since I last played Forza 4, I wanted to ease back into it and just have fun at first. So I initially selected:

NEW RACER

After experiencing the magical passing 1 or 2; I tried changing to:

HIGHLY SKILLED

While slightly more difficult; I still found it possible to consistently get out front...until that last lap again. I've now been experimenting with all the other levels to see if any are better. I can't recall exactly which I have tried and not tried. I do know that I have never tried UNBEATABLE.

Changing the setting seems to modify the behavior of the majority of Drivatars; but not the 1 or 2.

I'll openly admit that I'm not a great driver. I'm a middle aged guy with slowing reflexes. I do probably have a couple thousand hours playtime in GT GT,2,3,4, 5, and 6 as well as Forza 3 and 4. I try my best to race clean and have fun though; but not when fighting cheating Drivatars ;-)
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That's very odd. I've got about 1000 miles on FM6 at this point, and haven't experienced that sort of problem. The Drivatars haven't been perfect of course, with a notable problem with the tire barriers on Laguna in Free Play (Pro) being one I've caught, and the odd random braking point. I've also noticed the rabbit issue in a couple races, with the leader getting a substantial lead. One difference is that I haven't see them suddenly gain more skill when I'm out front, though. On Unbeatable, I've seen some pretty inspired clean passes from them, as well as accident-avoidance moves that I rarely see racing online against actual humans.

It seems as though, more so than anything else with FM6, when it comes to Drivatar experiences, YMMV.
 
4 races into the full game and I'm already experiencing the audio crackling bug from FM5. Amazing.
 
I really appreciate all the insight in those last few posts. This gives me hope that as I get better the issue will kind of "resolve itself".

I'm beginning to think the "glitch" may occur when you are able to overtake the masses a bit too quickly; and the game adjusts on the fly to give you more of a challenge...but not for players like you who are playing at such a high level to begin with.

Let me try re-stating that. Since you are already playing slightly above the level of the highest "skilled" Drivatars available; you feel a smooth race against worthy opponents. Since I am playing at a much lower level; when suddenly one or two of my opponents get automatically pushed up closer to your skill level; it feels to me like a boost.

This still doesn't totally explain some of my experiences near the end of races where the suddenly faster Drivatars pass me on straights and I can't even come close to matching their speed...but it could explain probably 90% of what is happening to me.

I think this is going to be frustrating for the masses; but maybe not so much for the elite.
 
MK500
Let me try re-stating that. Since you are already playing slightly above the level of the highest "skilled" Drivatars available; you feel a smooth race against worthy opponents. Since I am playing at a much lower level; when suddenly one or two of my opponents get automatically pushed up closer to your skill level; it feels to me like a boost.
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That's the thing though, skill is not adjusted during game, it is adjusted before it. Changes to a drivers skill is not occuring mid race.

MK500
This still doesn't totally explain some of my experiences near the end of races where the suddenly faster Drivatars pass me on straights and I can't even come close to matching their speed...but it could explain probably 90% of what is happening to me.
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I'm beginning to see a problem here. You are probably putting to much focus on suspension and handling parts. Step back and up your power, and that'll become more apparent with the higher skill level you start to use. There is a very fine balance you have to find, and it'll be different compared to how you used to play FM4.
 
Also; to give a better example of what it feels like when this happens:

In a 5 lap race I am running 10 car lengths or so out in front of the lead Drivatar. So that Drivatar's lap times are similar to mine for 4 out of 5 laps. It is racing consistent laps and not changing position; so I'm watching it closely. In the final lap that Drivatar suddenly zooms past me and -- looking at the final leaderboard -- t shaved approximately 4 seconds off its fastest prior lap. It's almost like racing with someone who is humoring you until the final lap.

Based on all this; I'm trying Drivatar Difficulty:

PRO

So far I'm only 3 laps into my first race this way; but already it's feeling a lot more fun. I don't know how to explain it other than the opponents feel more "consistent". The real test will be if once I gain the lead I am able to hold it and not have some big surprise. If so it confirms my theory and this will be a good solution for me; although maybe not the masses for whom PRO might be too frustrating.

Sorry for making so many posts. I'll quiet down and let the rest of you get some words in now :-)
 
MK500
Also; to give a better example of what it feels like when this happens:

In a 5 lap race I am running 10 car lengths or so out in front of the lead Drivatar. So that Drivatar's lap times are similar to mine for 4 out of 5 laps. It is racing consistent laps and not changing position; so I'm watching it closely. In the final lap that Drivatar suddenly zooms past me and -- looking at the final leaderboard -- t shaved approximately 4 seconds off its fastest prior lap. It's almost like racing with someone who is humoring you until the final lap.
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Did you watch the replays and actually notice that big a difference between each and every lap, or did you just see that he posted a faster lap time? It's all hard to say really. What you can do for us is use your Xbox DVR program and record the full length of the race so that way we can view it and try to figure out what the problem is.

Sorry for making so many posts. I'll quiet down and let the rest of you get some words in now :-)
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No worries, you're mature enough to where this discussion isn't turning into a crapfest. So hopefully we can figure out what problem you're having.
 
@MK500 - If it helps, maybe share the replay in-game, so we could take a look at it and try to piece together why these things are happening? What @ImaRobot suggested could help too, but I believe saving the replay gives us access to more options when viewing it ourselves.

👍
 
SlipZtrEm
@MK500 - If it helps, maybe share the replay in-game, so we could take a look at it and try to piece together why these things are happening? What @ImaRobot suggested could help too, but I believe saving the replay gives us access to more options when viewing it ourselves.

👍
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I don't know how that skipped my mind. Thanks for the correction 👍
 
MK500
In a 5 lap race I am running 10 car lengths or so out in front of the lead Drivatar. So that Drivatar's lap times are similar to mine for 4 out of 5 laps. It is racing consistent laps and not changing position; so I'm watching it closely. In the final lap that Drivatar suddenly zooms past me and -- looking at the final leaderboard -- t shaved approximately 4 seconds off its fastest prior lap. It's almost like racing with someone who is humoring you until the final lap.
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So it's definitely that drivatar who is second for much of the race, and then picks up speed on the last lap? It's definitely not a drivatar who may be stuck behind other drivatars until the last lap?
 
SlipZtrEm
@MK500 - If it helps, maybe share the replay in-game, so we could take a look at it and try to piece together why these things are happening? What @ImaRobot suggested could help too, but I believe saving the replay gives us access to more options when viewing it ourselves.

👍
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I feel so stupid for not thinking to fire up the DVR or at least (even better) save replays. I could have easily gotten 10 good examples yesterday. In a row. That is the first thing I should have done when things got weird.

Anyway, since seeing the posts requesting recordings I went back to the beginning of the game and tried to reproduce the situation so I could get a recording. I set Drivatar level to NEW RACER as it had been at the beginning for me. I've gone through around 7 races now.

It's not happening. Totally different names are on the lead cars and the ones that were "acting out" yesterday are hanging near the middle of the pack. The overall feel of all the cars in the pack is very different from yesterday. They are staying more consistently competitive now. This is such a completely different experience than playing through these same tracks yesterday that I've decided I'm just going to continue and re-play this part of the game. It's a LOT more fun now that I have decent AI.

My only guess is that it was/is using my play to build the opponent Drivatars, and somehow what it had to work with at the beginning yesterday wasn't enough to make sensible Drivatars. And maybe when it realized I was getting too far out ahead it made some live changes to skill or something to help those Drivatars zoom ahead. I realize ImaRobot says skill is set for Drivatars at the beginning of the race and doesn't change mid-race; but are you certain this is the case?

This is GREAT news for me; but I'm extremely curious what we are going to see happen on the 15th when the masses arrive. Could it be that all the early players data will "fix" the problem? Or are a certain percentage of the new players going to go through what I did?

Someone needs to tell the reviewer at Games Radar to go re-play the early races. I should do that.
 
So I didn't get the ultimate edition, and there is literally just one thing I want to know. Does that 🤬 lady still tell you which track you're going to every time you load it up in career? And is there a way to shut her up? Because in FM5, every time she said that I was going to the "Peep state," I wanted to track her down, and smack her over the head with an ironing board.

What even is a peep state anyway? Perverts peep through people's windows, does it mean the perverted state? Is Georgia full of perverts? :P
 
Skython
So I didn't get the ultimate edition, and there is literally just one thing I want to know. Does that 🤬 lady still tell you which track you're going to every time you load it up in career? And is there a way to shut her up? Because in FM5, every time she said that I was going to the "Peep state," I wanted to track her down, and smack her over the head with an ironing board.

What even is a peep state anyway? Perverts peep through people's windows, does it mean the perverted state? Is Georgia full of perverts? :P
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You need some better speakers. It sounds like she's saying "The Peach State" on mine. Unfortunately she's all over FM6 though but they have a male co-narrator along with May and Hammond which helps nreak things up a little.
 
UKMikey
You need some better speakers. It sounds like she's saying "The Peach State" on mine. Unfortunately she's all over FM6 though but they have a male co-narrator along with May and Hammond which helps nreak things up a little.
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Oh no. I might just keep my remote handy and mute the TV everytime I load up a track. :lol: I did some googling, and yeah, you're right, my speakers just suck. She says peach state. That at least restores some sanity knowing that she's not saying Peep state.
 
MK500
The fact that I am experiencing it so consistently -- and you are not -- makes me wonder if this is some kind of weird bug. I wonder if something in my gaming history is screwing up the Drivatar system. I owned and played Forza 3 and 4, but skipped 5 and Horizon for example. Maybe this is because it is my first Drivatar enabled game?

Interestingly the two Drivatars are pretty much always labeled for two specific Xbox Live friends. Neither of these friends have played Forza 6 yet as far as I can tell. I've read elsewhere that the friends titles on Drivatars are simply there to give you motivation and may have zero link to that actual person...so who knows. It seems very confusing for someone new to Drivatars.

You may hate on the games radar reviewer; but he clearly is experiencing the same thing I am. And if you read the rest of the review; it's quite positive. Both he and I seem to be in the same "love the game; hate the AI" situation. I experienced the same feeling of "grind" he did...but it's mostly a factor of feeling like you are running the same race over and over; because of the consistent last lap experience of getting pwned. And feeling powerless to do anything about it.
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I have this problem as well. I call it the Superfriends glitch.

Weirdly enough, the only one who doesn't do this is the friend that actually plays the game.

Perhaps friends with no Drivatar settings are just given a "perfect" score or something.

They are beatable but they make you work for it.
 
bremics
I have this problem as well. I call it the Superfriends glitch.

Weirdly enough, the only one who doesn't do this is the friend that actually plays the game.

Perhaps friends with no Drivatar settings are just given a "perfect" score or something.

They are beatable but they make you work for it.
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It seems to depend on track (possibly other factors such as class), but for certain races I always found some randoms with a driver level of 1 much harder to beat than drivatars of people actually playing the game (not talking about FM6 here).
 
I'm confused, did the classes change again?
FM6 A700 performance is the same as FM5's?? To me it don't look like.
Also some cars that were in A class now are now in S class, minimum
 
I can confirm MK500's observation. I noticed a few times when at least one AI was far ahead of the rest, pretty much uncatchable, at least not in two or three laps. But even more annoying, is the AI breaking on straights or at corner exit without any necessity. It's almost like they deliberately want you to crash into them or slow you down.
 

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