Understanding The Deltawing

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diptob79

diptob79

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One of the car I am eager to drive in GT6 was the Deltawing. With it's interesting configuration I wonder how the characteristic will be.
Now that GT6 has 2 versions of it, that's exceed my expectation, thanks PD for this.

Then I testdrive this creature only to find the car always try to kill me in every corner. I have to brake only in the straightline, tried some trail braking but still with the slightest of brake feathering it will spin out horribly.

So guys do you share the same experience with this specific car ?
Any tips or storytelling is appreciated

Thanks

note: I drove it in stock condition, abs 1 only.


deltawing-2013-300x199.jpg
 
diptob79
One of the car I am eager to drive in GT6 was the Deltawing. With it's interesting configuration I wonder how the characteristic will be.
Now that GT6 has 2 versions of it, that's exceed my expectation, thanks PD for this.

Then I testdrive this creature only to find the car always try to kill me in every corner. I have to brake only in the straightline, tried some trail braking but still with the slightest of brake feathering it will spin out horribly.

So guys do you share the same experience with this specific car ?
Any tips or storytelling is appreciated

Thanks

note: I drove it in stock condition, abs 1 only.


deltawing-2013-300x199.jpg
Click to expand...
Hey there, I also have problems driving this car, every corner the car will always try to slide to the corner, even on Racing Softs. :(
 
I think the physics regarding MR cars is a bit wonky.

Some cars are planted, like the Renault Megane V6 Trophy, but cars like the R8 LMS just want to squirm everywhere unless you balance out the weight distribution.

Things like this, and AI cars suddenly launching the rear of their cars in the air under heavy braking makes me think the engine needs some tweaks with weight distribution.
 
Well, I haven't driven it but supposedly that's the way to drive the car in real life; you have to brake in a straight line because the weight is very rear-biased (the weight distribution is 72.5% rear, 27.5% front). But you can get on the power far sooner because of the immense traction this set up provides. Chris Harris said you have to drive it "like an old 911".

The main benefit of the car is on the straights. Because it doesn't have a single wing and the frontal area is so small, it has far less drag than a normal race car; it can hit nearly 200 mph at Le Mans with only 320 bhp, less than half the power of an LMP1 car.

Here's Chris Harris driving the car, as well as the designer Ben Bowlby explaining the physics and engineering behind it:

 
Which version? I use the '12 often, no assists besides ABS 1. Although, at first it did do as described by OP... seems to only get this way you're trying to drive aggressive with it. Straight line brake only, clip the apex, hard out. Best I can say.

Although don't remember what the stock rear downforce is... I know I have mine set to 1400. Which I have adjusted. Never used a grippier tire than racing med's. One thing that took something learning besides the driving characteristic... was the width of the rear of the car while in traffic. Which often at first, resulted in the AI punting me.
 
sumbrownkid
I think the physics regarding MR cars is a bit wonky.

Some cars are planted, like the Renault Megane V6 Trophy, but cars like the R8 LMS just want to squirm everywhere unless you balance out the weight distribution.

Things like this, and AI cars suddenly launching the rear of their cars in the air under heavy braking makes me think the engine needs some tweaks with weight distribution.
Click to expand...
Try this, it cured the LMS Ultra for me as well as Ford GT and both are now a delight to drive:
image.jpg
 
I've never been a huge fan of the DeltaWing for a couple reason, some of which Don Panoz resolved with the car's removal and return with a different name. The other bits drivers will experience. Of course, this was originally schemed up as a proposal for indycar. I saw an interview at the time with indycar driver, and recent Toyota LMP factory addition, Mike Conway, and he brought up a very good point. He pointed out that normally in an open wheel car you use the front tires to judge what kind of space the car can fit into. With the DeltaWing you are not able to judge gaps like with any other car because the front is so small and its ass is so fat. This will lead to immediate problems for most GT6 drivers making this adjustment, as they will find themselves catching the grass when going for an apex and putting the tail in the wall on exit.

After that adjustment, one should never expect this car to handle without some major tune work. As was mentioned, this car was meant to have the speed of an LMP1 car with half the energy use. To do that the aerodynamics, especially on the under tray, are very particular and handling is greatly compromised. That was one of the reasons I thought it was crazy when they homologated the car in the ALMS because its different handling characteristics mean the spots on the track it does and doesn't have speed contradict the other prototypes and even GT cars, which are even faster than the DeltaWing in some parts of the track. Its slow in the corners so it should congest the pack in online race pretty well in GT6, expect a lot of understeer also. Since I've already ranted a bit in my explanation I might as well just say that my other problem with the car is that even if it goes just as fast with twice the energy it is completely irrelevant because none of that will ever make its way to a road car.

Jav
Try this, it cured the LMS Ultra for me as well as Ford GT and both are now a delight to drive:
View attachment 88107
Click to expand...
The same setup won't work the same because of how radically different this car is. The tricks you used may apply though. I see that is for the R8, what exactly have you changed?

My best suggestion is to run the car with a ballast in it and adjust the weight distribution to make it 50/50 if it isn't already.
 
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jonjwlee
Well, I haven't driven it but supposedly that's the way to drive the car in real life; you have to brake in a straight line because the weight is very rear-biased (the weight distribution is 72.5% rear, 27.5% front). But you can get on the power far sooner because of the immense traction this set up provides. Chris Harris said you have to drive it "like an old 911".

The main benefit of the car is on the straights. Because it doesn't have a single wing and the frontal area is so small, it has far less drag than a normal race car; it can hit nearly 200 mph at Le Mans with only 320 bhp, less than half the power of an LMP1 car.

Here's Chris Harris driving the car, as well as the designer Ben Bowlby explaining the physics and engineering behind it:

Click to expand...


Since I first saw the Delta Wing I thought it was a stupid idea, and I had no idea why people cared about it so much, but after watching that video, I am very impressed by the scientific approach they made for it, and I will buy it in GT6.
 
Just got the DeltaWing and i gotta say... it's bad fast. The first time it drove it though, i was spinning like crazy. I thought i had just wasted 2mil but then i figured it out. For me, brake in a straight line and USE THE DOWNFORCE. This car really likes the fast corners. It's a bit precarious in the slow ones, but you just have to learn to trust it and know when it has grip, which is a lot. But yea, just be careful on the brakes and drive smooth, and trust it.

Used the stock setup with max downforce by the way.
 
fordman47
Just got the DeltaWing and i gotta say... it's bad fast. The first time it drove it though, i was spinning like crazy. I thought i had just wasted 2mil but then i figured it out. For me, brake in a straight line and USE THE DOWNFORCE. This car really likes the fast corners. It's a bit precarious in the slow ones, but you just have to learn to trust it and know when it has grip, which is a lot. But yea, just be careful on the brakes and drive smooth, and trust it.

Used the stock setup with max downforce by the way.
Click to expand...

I can't wait to try it. :)
 
sumbrownkid
I think the physics regarding MR cars is a bit wonky.

Some cars are planted, like the Renault Megane V6 Trophy, but cars like the R8 LMS just want to squirm everywhere unless you balance out the weight distribution.

Things like this, and AI cars suddenly launching the rear of their cars in the air under heavy braking makes me think the engine needs some tweaks with weight distribution.
Click to expand...

I noticed this with the Rocket and the X-Bow Street. The Rocket is incredibly grippy, but the X-Bow Street likes to squirm out of control :scared:
 
I've got the '13 and I upped the rear downforce to 1400 and brake in a straight line like has been said above. The way you can get on the power is amazing! Really enjoying it :)
 
So what manufacturer does the DeltaWing fall under? Is it independent or a part of Nissan because it's not part of the Nissan dealership...?
 
Ryan81
So what manufacturer does the DeltaWing fall under? Is it independent or a part of Nissan because it's not part of the Nissan dealership...?
Click to expand...

The car is not a Nissan, they just had a small hand in development of the first model.


Anyways, it's tough to drive but it IS fun to!
 
Amac500
The same setup won't work the same because of how radically different this car is. The tricks you used may apply though. I see that is for the R8, what exactly have you changed?

My best suggestion is to run the car with a ballast in it and adjust the weight distribution to make it 50/50 if it isn't already.
Click to expand...
Never said it applied to the Delta Wing, just shared my set for the R8 and Ford GT.
 
I have set the braking sensitivity to 40 to counteract the liftoff oversteer you get, anyone having trouble getting round corners give that a go!
 
The first thing I did with the '13 Deltawing was remove all downforce and test the top speed at Route X. I don't remember the speed, but it wouldn't go very fast in a straight line without spinning out. A major problem with rear heavy cars is high speed stability. Bonneville guys know to never run with rear weight bias. So the idea of adding weight to the front is a good one.

Another example is take an arrow shaped stick and attach a weight on one end. Any way you throw it, it will end up with the weight end first.

Fun car to drive. I like it.
 
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Maybe it'll be better when it's tuned correctly... but so far, mine can drive straight without turning and spin in the corners like a boss... I don't get that car at all...
 
Its near impossible to drive with a DS3. When braking it would always want to pull to the turn side. Its not easy to ease around a highspeed turn. Tried it at Monza and just had to give up. Waiting on my wheel. There is an Audi '37 forget the name that was a trailblazer. It was also "tail" heavy and could only be driven by very skilled drivers. Thinking its the same principle. Check it out in the dealership. It's $500k.
 
Have to say I've just bought one and have done a few laps around Monza with it and really enjoy driving it, it feels really planted and like others have been saying you can get on the power so early compared to the LMP and similar cars.

Edit; Using a DS3, stock set up with no TC and ABS1


FishHunters
Its near impossible to drive with a DS3. When braking it would always want to pull to the turn side. Its not easy to ease around a highspeed turn. Tried it at Monza and just had to give up. Waiting on my wheel. There is an Audi '37 forget the name that was a trailblazer. It was also "tail" heavy and could only be driven by very skilled drivers. Thinking its the same principle. Check it out in the dealership. It's $500k.
Click to expand...

Where are you having a problem? I had no issues around Monza, break before you turn in and as soon as you turn power on, the back end steps out a little but it's really nice and totally manageable
 
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RacingManiac
Braking stability should actually be a strong suit of this layout, since unlike a normal car the back end does not become unloaded....

http://www.popularmechanics.com/car...iving-the-nissan-bladeglider-concept-16178124
Click to expand...

The thing is, the braking is stable if you hit the brakes in a straight line. Pretty much everyone who has driven the DeltaWing has said that you shouldn't be trail braking with it like you would other cars.

JuiceMcGoose
The first thing I did with the '13 Deltawing was remove all downforce and test the top speed at Route X. I don't remember the speed, but it wouldn't go very fast in a straight line without spinning out. A major problem with rear heavy cars is high speed stability. Bonneville guys know to never run with rear weight bias. So the idea of adding weight to the front is a good one.

Another example is take an arrow shaped stick and attach a weight on one end. Any way you throw it, it will end up with the weight end first.

Fun car to drive. I like it.
Click to expand...

As far as I know, the car doesn't need downforce taken out of it. The car already has a low drag coefficient because of its shape and because there's no wings (it just has small Gurney flaps at the rear; the underbody is what makes most of the downforce the car needs). Also, the car has to be heavily optimised because the car is so heavily rear-biased, so the ratio of downforce between the front and rear has to be balanced with the weight distribution. Hence taking downforce out of the car risks unsettling the car's balance, making it highly unstable.
 
Ryan81
So what manufacturer does the DeltaWing fall under? Is it independent or a part of Nissan because it's not part of the Nissan dealership...?
Click to expand...
That was one of my other problems with the DeltaWing is how Nissan has tried to steal it in marketing and most people think its theirs. Fun fact, do you know how much of that car was ever Nissan's? Nothing but the little badge they popped on the engine. The car is built by Dan Gurney's All-American Racers (AAR) on a tub from the failed Aston Martin AMR-One LMP1 car. As for the engine, it is actually a rebadged Cheverolet WTCC engine that Nissan purchased from the UK engineering group RML. Most DeltaWing fans like to contest that last one, pointing to Nissan's marketing of the Juke engine, but although it share the same layout the Juke engine isn't tested or developed for endurance racing and was not used in the car. So yeah, fun fact, none of it is actually Nissan. That's why I loved how the car was called the Nissan DeltaWing '12 and then with Don Panoz's lawsuit it came back with the name DeltaWing sponsored by Nissan at Le Mans in 2012, lol.
 
This car is like a mini F1 car, it weighs around 475kg, open top and has 340hp. Imagine what hybriders will do it!
 
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jonjwlee
The thing is, the braking is stable if you hit the brakes in a straight line. Pretty much everyone who has driven the DeltaWing has said that you shouldn't be trail braking with it like you would other cars.
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Which is weird, since despite the rear bias, the rear should have more grip in general. Wider track, more tire, Center of pressure being located across rear axle, the car should be more stable, trail brake or not...its not as if the car has a lot of overhang like a 911....
 
RacingManiac
Which is weird, since despite the rear bias, the rear should have more grip in general. Wider track, more tire, Center of pressure being located across rear axle, the car should be more stable, trail brake or not...its not as if the car has a lot of overhang like a 911....
Click to expand...

The overhang doesn't matter. What matters is the weight distribution, and on the DeltaWing 70-80% of the car's weight is at the rear. That's more than any 911.
 

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