- 93
- RoboKrikit
Update sucks
- Thread starter MrDuck1234
- 385 comments
- 21,026 views
- 416
Whoevers competitive with a pad, I admire them. I've just tried it, and though I can put competent laps together, it's a totally different skill to using a wheel.
- 1,029
- Uruguay
That's great news Scaff. I think everyone here trusts your opinion as to the realism of the physics. I have certainly come to appreciate your input on such matters in the past, even if some times it took a while for me to see your point. I'll accede to your opinion in this matter, whichever way it falls...
Since you'll probably go back and read the entire thread now, I expect you'll find that, except for a very few posters, it has actually been a civil and well-argued thread. In fact, I just commented on that a few posts up...
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I just went to arcade, selected suzuka, set the AI to 90, 4 laps and grabbed the 599. It is a difficult race to win with S3 tyres because the amount of grip you have is fine, but the Amuse is still gonna kick you everytime, so I went up to R tyres, and I decided to give it a go with the R3.
I have to say that the AI was not consistent at all, which is a good thing, because in this 4 lap race the amsue got to P 3 and 4, and I was being hunted by a mine's skyline! Yet throughout this race I was constantly using my tyres to the max and I have to say that I could have won that race, with the same AI if I was using R1 instead of R3, though it might have been a tad more difficult.
Yet I think that after the update I can better feel what the 599 is doing with its rear; when you're on the crossover going into turn 14 which leads into turns 15 and 16, the rear loses grip and with throttle control and delicate steering I can pull through the corner with absolute control of what I'm doing; I turn the steering wheel at about 190 to 200 kmh and enter turn 14
Yet the grip that I feel seems very fitting and appropriate! I have once driven a Camaro Z28 on full racing slick (no grooves) and it was very difficult to exceed the grip limit and actually slide around. Though I must say I was a lot younger (17 or something) and to be honest I really didn't want to slide around
Plus the fact that the 599 has a lot more horsepower and torque, but still.
To me it seems spot on, that's what I'm trying to say
I have to say that the AI was not consistent at all, which is a good thing, because in this 4 lap race the amsue got to P 3 and 4, and I was being hunted by a mine's skyline! Yet throughout this race I was constantly using my tyres to the max and I have to say that I could have won that race, with the same AI if I was using R1 instead of R3, though it might have been a tad more difficult.
Yet I think that after the update I can better feel what the 599 is doing with its rear; when you're on the crossover going into turn 14 which leads into turns 15 and 16, the rear loses grip and with throttle control and delicate steering I can pull through the corner with absolute control of what I'm doing; I turn the steering wheel at about 190 to 200 kmh and enter turn 14
Yet the grip that I feel seems very fitting and appropriate! I have once driven a Camaro Z28 on full racing slick (no grooves) and it was very difficult to exceed the grip limit and actually slide around. Though I must say I was a lot younger (17 or something) and to be honest I really didn't want to slide around
Plus the fact that the 599 has a lot more horsepower and torque, but still.To me it seems spot on, that's what I'm trying to say
- 7,984
- GTP_Royalton
GTTo me it seems spot on, that's what I'm trying to say
GT I'm not trying to call you out, but this is the basic theme I'm seeing in this thread.
Everyone is saying the new physics are spot on because to paraphrase it "now they can catch the back end and have supreme control over their vehicle".
So this update turned all of us into Michael Schumachers? Learning how to catch the back end of a car, how to drift, how to take 130R at 100+mph takes time and practice. It shouldn't be autimaticly achievable after fitting stickier tires.
If you struggled to turn laps in the Ferrari F40 or Ford GT pre update then you shouldn't be able to do it post update because trust me, driving these cars was just not that hard with alot of practice and basic racing knowledge of tire grip under different circumstances like cornering, braking, at constant speed, and acceleration or a combination.
Preupdate I could could sometimes catch the back end of almost any car from the 512bb to the Ford GT Tuned.
Now I've already mentioned that the "on ice" feeling was because of the physics of the individual cars, not the tires. PD increasingthe grips of the tires to the point where the back end is glued down and even when it steps out its easily caught is a cheap way to fix the "on ice" problem.
It is my opinion the "on ice" problem that was only noticeable and unrealistic at just a few corners in the game, with most of them at Suzuka, was due to the suspension settings of the cars being whacked.
When you drive a default Ford GT or Corvette in the time trials the cars can feel like they're driving on the ice.
So what should you do, just slap on big fat racing slicks?
No, you tune the suspension.
Just like how everyone was having trouble locking up the brakes too easily with the default 5/5 brake ratio which is EXTREMELY unrealistic. The default suspension settings on most of these cars were FAR OFF where they should have been.
With simple tweaking of the Ford GT's toe and camber the car lost 90% of it's "on ice" feeling.
And if Prologue let us tweak more of the suspension, like spring rate and caster I'm sure tuners could dial most of the "on ice" condition out of the car.
And lets remember another thing, most of the cars in Prologue pre update DID NOT have the on ice problem. Only some mid engine and extremely powerful RWD cars had the problem. The AWD cars were on rails andsome cars like the Mazda RX-8 drove almost perfect.
Another problem making the the tires grippier creates is now the possibility of unrealistic GT4 R5 racing tires amounts of grip.
The tuned cars in this game are the closest things we have to race cars besides the unrealisticly grippy F1. Remember though that the tuned cars are just the road car but lighter with some aerodynamic grip. This grip is 20/35.
Now imagine a LMP2 Porsche Spyder in GT5, full blown racecar suspension, weighing 850KGs, with 500 horsepower, and if GT4 racecars are anything to go by, downforce levels of 100/125, 5 times that of the GT5P tuned cars.
How grippy do you think that car would be on R3 tires? Can you say probably beating real lap times at the same track by 5 or 10 seconds? Pre update Formula 1 lap times at Fuji were beating the real lap times there by 4 seconds, and they didn't even let us tweak the gear ratios, which would probably let us beat the real lap times by 5 or more seconds.
Pre update alot of cars felt perfect. A properly tuned Dodge Viper SRT10 felt spot on, the F430 felt great and many others.
Only a few cars, like the RX-7, Ford Mustang, and Z06 had "on ice" problems, and that was most likely do to the balance of the cars (most likely due to inaccurate suspension settings), because slapping racing slicks on them did not help much. Or maybe some cars just are dogs to drive?
Also, the fact that most are happy with the updated physics doesn't mean it was the right move in the right direction.
Let's face it, alot of the guys who see Gran Turismo as their racing simulator probably never raced a PC sim before and don't have much of an idea of how tough simulation actually is.
When GT unleashes full blown sim racing physics on them and the cars actually take a degree of skill to drive it's easy to see them get frustrated and claim it is too hard because after all, they were aces in GT4, which was fun, but so far from reality in terms of physics.
I know alot are probably afraid to say it, but most don't really care if this update was realistic or not, it gives them more grip and the cars are easier to drive so they give it a 👍.
No car I drove in this game preupdate was too hard drive or couldn't be tuned to where it was possible to drive without most of the "on ice" feeling that was usually due to the poor balance of the vehicle or suspension, and not the grip levels of the tires.
NASCAR 2003 for the PC was and is still tougher then driving any car in GT5P preupdate and had a much steeper learning curve. Why? Because you don't learn how to drive a 800 horsepower stock car over night. It took determination, practice, and trial and error. Now I have a slight hang of the cars.
Did I ask Papyrus to increase the grip of the tires so I could pull a Kyle Busch save mid turn at 200mph? No. Driving cars this fast takes time and practice. It should not be possible overnight. I am not a professional, I should not be able to race like one unless I put alot of hard work at into it.
I couldn't drift cars pre update. But I can drift cars in GRID. Does that mean PD's tire model/physics whatever preupdate was impossible to drift on and should have been tweaked because I struggled doing it with little to no practice? No.
Again, we're at instant gratification. People want to jump into a full blown driving simulator and they want to be able to catch a Ford GT drifting out of 130 R at 120mph, and straighten it up ala Michael Schumacher on their first or second try. If they can't do it, then there's a problem with the game.
Maybe it's the pros fault. Maybe they led you to believe it was easy when it wasn't. Maybe they made you believe their first race was in that Formula 1 car or stock car and not at that kart track or quarter mile dirt track. Maybe they made you think they saved their car every time it got out of shape. That these things were easy, and not hard. Maybe its their fault that you never saw them crash time and time again coming up through the ranks, and that those wrecks motivated them to get better. Maybe they led you to believe that racing came natural to them and not something they worked for, every single day of their life. Maybe they destroyed GT5P.
Or maybe, you're just making excuses
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- 27,162
- United Kingdom
Of everything you wrote I think this paragraph sums it up best for me: I had a great time with the old tyre grip, and after careful tuning I got a number of race wins in powerful rear-drive cars like the Blitz ER34, controlling the oversteer, being veeeerrrry gentle with the throttle... and all this on a pad. I didn't "struggle" with the physics at all and despite my use of the pad I preferred driving the tail-happy cars.
However, I do think that the grip levels are more realistic since the update. From the few quick cars I've driven on track, from the motor sport events I've been to, and from the hundreds and thousands of hours of motor racing, car programs and the like I've seen,the way cars behave since the update looks and feels more realistic to me. Just little things like the way powering out of the corner with a little too much gas will get the back end stepping out but then it suddenly grips and straightens, wheras before on the same throttle you'd just end up with a load of wheelspin, and if you did get a pendulum going it was less inclined to stop.
If you overdrive the cars they'll still bite (they certainly have done for me) but I think now the limits are more realistic and don't punish the smallest of mistakes unfairly.
And I urge you to remember that this is the opinion of a driver who didn't "struggle" with the old physics, I just happen to think the new ones are better 👍
Edit: Incidentally, with the brief talk of drifting, I find the cars harder to drift now than I did pre-update - I actually think drifting requires more skill now that we've got more grip because you have to give harder blasts of the throttle to maintain your wheelspin, and ironically this puts you more "on the edge" than it did when there was less grip.
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Keef
Premium
- 24,526
- Dayton, OH
- GTP_KeefRacer
- GTP Keef
I'll say the only part of this update that sucks for me is the penalty system. I never played online before the update, but if this is the revised penalty system then it's absolutely horrid and needs a does of intelligence like that of the great AI opponents. Here's what happened in my last 750PP PRO race at Fuji:
I fought my way to third, where I was rammed coming into the first corner on the second lap, putting my in 8th. I raced my way cleanly to third within that one lap where I had to concede third to a car on the inside of me at the first corner. He passed on the inside of me cleanly while I got hit with a ramming penalty.
We didn't touch at all, and the penalty came after he was already past me! So, once again, I raced from fifth to third on the last lap where on the last corner I get pounded from the inside which threw me off the outside of the last corner and I suffered a shortcut penalty. First of all, I was blatantly rammed but the punter didn't get any penalty. Secondly, My tires never left the pavement before I got rammed, and lastly I was thrown to the outside of the corner. I've pulled out my physics notes and have been studying ferociously for the last minute and a half and I just can't see how that could possibly be called a shortcut. I've even looked at the definition of the word. The penalty system failed twice in one foul swoop by not penalizing the punter and by giving me a penalty that was not physically possible.
But I'll keep racing because I'm winning more than I'm losing. I'll be elated when they either fix the system with some decent parameters a 12 year old could come up with or they appoint real people to judge each and every online situtation in real time. One of those certainly won't happen, but sadly I'm not sure which.
I fought my way to third, where I was rammed coming into the first corner on the second lap, putting my in 8th. I raced my way cleanly to third within that one lap where I had to concede third to a car on the inside of me at the first corner. He passed on the inside of me cleanly while I got hit with a ramming penalty.
We didn't touch at all, and the penalty came after he was already past me! So, once again, I raced from fifth to third on the last lap where on the last corner I get pounded from the inside which threw me off the outside of the last corner and I suffered a shortcut penalty. First of all, I was blatantly rammed but the punter didn't get any penalty. Secondly, My tires never left the pavement before I got rammed, and lastly I was thrown to the outside of the corner. I've pulled out my physics notes and have been studying ferociously for the last minute and a half and I just can't see how that could possibly be called a shortcut. I've even looked at the definition of the word. The penalty system failed twice in one foul swoop by not penalizing the punter and by giving me a penalty that was not physically possible.But I'll keep racing because I'm winning more than I'm losing. I'll be elated when they either fix the system with some decent parameters a 12 year old could come up with or they appoint real people to judge each and every online situtation in real time. One of those certainly won't happen, but sadly I'm not sure which.
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GT_Fanatic
(Banned)
- 612
I'll say the only part of this update that sucks for me is the penalty system. I never played online before the update, but if this is the revised penalty system then it's absolutely horrid and needs a does of intelligence like that of the great AI opponents. Here's what happened in my last 750PP PRO race at Fuji:
I fought my way to third, where I was rammed coming into the first corner on the second lap, putting my in 8th. I raced my way cleanly to third within that one lap where I had to concede third to a car on the inside of me at the first corner. He passed on the inside of me cleanly while I got hit with a ramming penalty.
But I'll keep racing because I'm winning more than I'm losing. I'll be elated when they either fix the system with some decent parameters a 12 year old could come up with or they appoint real people to judge each and every online situtation in real time. One of those certainly won't happen, but sadly I'm not sure which.
The penalty system has always been a chaos scenario. How PD haven't sacked the guy that thought of it, is beyond belief.
Lion-Face
Premium
- 1,466
- Invercargill
- Lion-Face
I cant think of many...if any..race series that runs ABS on their cars...and wasnt the argument about realism and realistic racing? Alot of people dont like or drive with TCS or ASM because it takes the 'spirit' out of racing where its man and machine, not computers running to the finish. Yet ABS is still accepted when people drive with 'no aids'?? Thats not no aids, if you have ABS on, your racing with computer controller aids. ABS is a safety device for road cars for driving on the road in everyday life, and if your trying to demonstrate the difficulty of driving a powerful performance car at speed, you wouldnt have any computer aids turned on...it defeats the purpose.
- 1,629
- RedSuinit
True, but also, with no ABS in a lot of cars, you don't get locked tires from lets say 1/4 of full braking, in GT5
you do, (heck in prologue your pinky toe could barely press on the brakes, and locked tires ahoy! 
) just a thought. Also ABS doesn't kick in on a road car till you are pushing the brakes so hard the tires are starting to lock up.Luke
Lion-Face
Premium
- 1,466
- Invercargill
- Lion-Face
^^ thats a slight over exageration i think. The F40 settings i drive i can squeeze at least 95% of the brake pedal before i risk locking it up. At 5/5 default brake bias settings, then yeah, 1/4 brake pedal and your locked no doubt, but thats no where near realistic brake bias settings and only usable when you drive with ABS at 1 or greater.
- 1,629
- RedSuinit
True on most cars it is not, I can think of a few though that it is. Well it's close at least, the MR2 Mk I, II, and III. But that is the MR2.
That is what enables the MK II to stop from 60 to 0 in 94 ft. and the MK III to stop from 60 to 0 in 84 ft. and the MK I 60 to 0 in 89 ft.Luke
listen, first of all, I managed fine with the old physics and could also control pretty much all of the cars, that includes tail slides and such, no problem. Yet the fact is that the aforementioned RX-7, which I have driven in real life, is not as slippery as the pre-update engine. Why is that? don't know, but now with the S1 tyres i can drive that car to the max and when I loose it i have more control over the back end; this does not mean that I had a problem pre-update, rathe rthat the tyres seem to be more realistic in their grip levels: in fact, the suspension settings have also been changed, they seem far more profound now, which is all the better.
The NSX is another example; pre-update it was extremely twitcht in corners; yes it is a mid engine car, and yes I know how to appropriatly corner those cars (in-game). I have yet to drive an NSX for real, yet from car magizines and footage of the real deal, it seems hardly to be so twitchy; in fact, it is supposed to be a very precise machine. Again, I loved driving it pre-update and did so often, yet it dd seem just a tad too twitchy and lost grip way to fast for such a light vehicle; this also inludes the R version.
Trust me buddy, it has nothing to do with instant gratification. You wanna try out yourself? alright, go to arcade and select suzuka, set AI to 95 and use S3 tyres, good luck and please, do report back will ya...ooh, and use the 599
point is, the tyres seem to relate more to the experiences I have had with them in real life under hars conditions; i.e using the tyres as much as possible on a track.
And yes, apart from the Grand Prix series by Geoff Crammond, I don't drive PC sims; I drive them in real life, and trust me, that is way better and not to mention cooler
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- 5,915
- Finland
I posted this in another thread but it can be very well used here too. The problem before the update was that S2 tyres seemed to represent the original tyres of the car which is just plain wrong.
The original tyres are in the N1-N3 range, not in the S1-S3 range like before. You can still get the slippery feeling, slap on some N2 or N3 tyres and you surely will have a shortage of grip like you should on road tyres. The S class tyres are sports tyres, S1 representing something like a Pilot Sport Cup and S2 & S3 being track only tyres of different compounds. Almost nobody (of the ones who say the update sucks) seems to realize that before the update medium compound cut slicks gave the grip of road tyres, now they give the grip of cut slicks. And cut slicks are pretty damn grippy, thus the increase in grip when using them. If you want the grip of road tyres, use road tyres instead of the said cut slicks. Simple as that.
The original tyres are in the N1-N3 range, not in the S1-S3 range like before. You can still get the slippery feeling, slap on some N2 or N3 tyres and you surely will have a shortage of grip like you should on road tyres. The S class tyres are sports tyres, S1 representing something like a Pilot Sport Cup and S2 & S3 being track only tyres of different compounds. Almost nobody (of the ones who say the update sucks) seems to realize that before the update medium compound cut slicks gave the grip of road tyres, now they give the grip of cut slicks. And cut slicks are pretty damn grippy, thus the increase in grip when using them. If you want the grip of road tyres, use road tyres instead of the said cut slicks. Simple as that.
Sphinx
Staff Emeritus
- 6,723
- England
- GTP_Sphinx
I'm no physics mode nerd. If it moves I'll drive it, and not really care if it's realistic or not.
However, I do believe that they went too far the other way with the update, because for me, the gap between Standard and Professional mode is now too close. I just can't see the point of having two different modes if they are too close together. The original physics in my opinion went too far the other way and I can understand why they adjusted it, but it now seems that they have gone too far the other way. Perhaps something in the middle would suffice.
As you can see, I'm not interested so much in realism, but more interested in clearer differences between the two modes.
However, I do believe that they went too far the other way with the update, because for me, the gap between Standard and Professional mode is now too close. I just can't see the point of having two different modes if they are too close together. The original physics in my opinion went too far the other way and I can understand why they adjusted it, but it now seems that they have gone too far the other way. Perhaps something in the middle would suffice.
As you can see, I'm not interested so much in realism, but more interested in clearer differences between the two modes.
- 27,162
- United Kingdom
Quite a few clubman series (in the UK at least) allow the use of ABS if they're original fitment in the vehicle. Fair enough, some drivers opt to disconnect it, but then it's down to the individual.
Probably the best option really. Might even keep both parties happy, shock horror...
well once again I'm gonna have to take a setp back on my opion on the update. Just recently got new tires for the WRX nitto nvio er something ill have to look. they are desinged for high endsuper cars as a all weather performace SUMMER tire.I must say there was a retared increace in grip,so i guess i can see a fullblown race tire having a LOTof grip.
Also someone mentioned that set ups might be at fault.This is a good point my set-up in the blitz was (self admitedly its in another post somewhere) set up to do one thing, not spin the rear tires.So i started retooling my set up and its now possable to break the rear loose on exit if youre not carefull.
I still think it was a bit to much but not near as bad as my inital "knee jerk" reaction.
Also someone mentioned that set ups might be at fault.This is a good point my set-up in the blitz was (self admitedly its in another post somewhere) set up to do one thing, not spin the rear tires.So i started retooling my set up and its now possable to break the rear loose on exit if youre not carefull.
I still think it was a bit to much but not near as bad as my inital "knee jerk" reaction.
- 1,747
I think and said it before it was a mistake to make two different modes ( for a prologue however) .
Thats why they made them closer and its a step in the right direction for me at least.
I know i'll probably can't convince you, but id say wait for fuel and tire wear and there will be a reasonable difference:tup:
- 2,837
- GTP_Div
QFT
Exactly what I've been saying all along.
To Earth:
Maybe beginners never win races online, maybe PD messed up by not doing any S1 or less online races, maybe you have yet to experience Nx tires on a FORD GT offline mode, maybe the pro drivers are pushing for every single milliseconds they can out of a lap while we're simply cruising in comparaison, maybe the hotlappers on this board simply don't post youtube videos of the hundreds of lap they've done, including their crashes, before showing their youtube record video, maybe, after all, it all comes down to the user to make it's experience worthwhile until PD actually reflects this new update in online mode?
Maybe around 10% of this board tend to reflect 90% of the posts relating to tire physics, maybe they're all just whinners?.
- 1,029
- Uruguay
True, but also, with no ABS in a lot of cars, you don't get locked tires from lets say 1/4 of full braking, in GT5
Luke
I think this is a fair argument. In a real car, as you near the limits of the brakes you can feel it. You instinctively know when it is going to happen. Firstly the pedal weights-up as you increase the pressure. Second, the pedal throw is much greater. This is the one area where even most of us "purist" drivers bow to the limitations of the hardware we have. There are some exceptions, I think Earth drives with ABS=0. As has been mentioned elsewhere, if you adjust the brake bias to something more realistic instead of 5/5 it helps a lot, but the difference between real brakes and the pedals we have is still so vast that most of us here have no problem with people using ABS. I have been practicing with ABS=0, and I might eventually move to it, but I certainly don't have any issues with people using ABS.
Actually, I think most of us don't really have a problem with people using TCS either if they really want to. I DO have a problem when I'm behind a driver who's car is obviously being controlled by the computer (ASM). It's just plain annoying.
This is a bit off-topic, isn't it?
- 2,837
- GTP_Div
I don't think it's off topic. It's a valid point and one must think where do we cross the line between a game and real life. ABS - 0 in the game is again something very unrealistic because there's no way for users to really know the pressure on the pedals as you mentioned.
- 27,162
- United Kingdom
It's more a lack of feel than a lack of adjustability as far as braking goes. Whether you're using a pad or a wheel and pedals it's all still electronic, you can't feel how much braking pressure to apply.
you know what's weird, go to the manual and check out what PD recommend for 'normal' tyres for each car; oddly, the GT-R and I believe Impreza and lancers are equiped with driven S1 and new S2; whilst in contrast the 599 is equiped with driven N3 and new S1...
That is odd don't you think?
Why would that be?
That is odd don't you think?
Why would that be?
- 2,837
- GTP_Div
The 599 comes with Pirelli P Zero which aren't really the most suited performance tires for such a vehicle. Remember the 599 is first and foremost a GT car and is made for highway trips and is designed towards comfort in mind.
GTR and STI oem tires:
http://www.tyre-shopper.co.uk/article.asp?id=308&title=Bridgestone-RE070
599 OEM tires:
http://www.pirellipzero.com/
GTR and STI oem tires:
http://www.tyre-shopper.co.uk/article.asp?id=308&title=Bridgestone-RE070
599 OEM tires:
http://www.pirellipzero.com/
- 1,629
- RedSuinit
👍 +1 Definitely agree. I want it to be realistic as well, but I agree that they went a little too far the other way with this update, but this is a "full game" I know, but in reality we are guinea pigs for PD being a massive amount of Beta testers helping them make a better game. I say PD keep the updates coming! We'll tell you whats missing!
Luke
- 1,029
- Uruguay
I'm willing to basically agree with this statement. I too think that it was probably at least a bit too difficult before. Most specifically I had some issues with the way some of the MR cars handled. I have a feeling that the underlying programming for the physics was pretty accurate, but that PD didn't make enough allowances for hardware limitations (this has been discussed a bit here and in other threads also). Thus, even if the physics were correct, the fact that our controllers and pedals lack the fine control of real-life controls actually made things more difficult than they should have been (but not by a huge margin).
And, obviously, I agree that things are now too easy. I went out and drove a lot again yesterday, and took a fair number of golds. To be honest, I probably took more golds than I deserved because a lot of the time I wasn't really trying (driving with one hand while drinking coffee or talking on the phone, for example). There wasn't a single race in which I felt any great sense of accomplishment. I never felt like it was down to my skill against that of the other drivers. Only once did I actually lose control of a car on my own (although I was punted on occasion of course), and that was the Morrison Vette after I tried a particularly weird tune. In every race I felt like it was down to luck more than anything else. What position would I be in when the race started? Would I get punted or stuck behind a slow driver without being able to cleanly pass? Never once did I enter a corner incorrectly and go "oh crap!" and get that adrenaline kick I did before. So I still firmly believe that, even if it was a little too hard before, it is far, far too easy now.
But I think I'll bow out of the discussion now and just keep playing and trying to enjoy it with only these last suggestions:
For those of you who think it was unrealistically hard before and is spot-on now. You really should do some research about the subject. I mean this in an "I'm trying to be helpful" way, not in a insulting way. I understand where you are coming from. When I started playing GT4 I couldn't believe it could be as hard as it was. But then I read more about racing, started researching things, read racing guides, listened to people here with a lot of experience, started driving Autocross myself. And guess what? I found out that I was way, way off on my estimation of how difficult racing is (and thus by extension how difficult a racing SIM should be). Racing is incredibly demanding and difficult, it simply isn't nearly as easy as many of you seem to believe it is.
If you want to be entertained while getting some background on racing watch the movie Grand Prix with James Garner. Pay special attention to all the extras on the second disk. I realize these are historic vehicles, but notice how Garner had to train for 2 months to be good enough to drive the car for filming purposes. The man (Carol Shelby?) training him basically said that James was a natural and was good enough that he could have been a race driver had he chosen that path in life instead of acting. (The other three primary actors varied in ability from "we can live with him" to "absolutely hopeless"). This is a good place to start learning a bit about racing because it is a very interesting and beautifully made movie but also quite accurate from a factual point of view. Kind of a blend of entertainment and documentary.
See you out there on the track sometime!
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