Usgp 2005
- Thread starter Blake
- 503 comments
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- 458
- KOXD
my god that was the most depressing race ive ever attended......6 frikin cars.....HUGE dissapointment that the Michilens retired before the start.....i was looking for a good performance by Renault......
sigh.....i did get Truli's autograph while he was walking into the pits thoguh (i was in a yellow soccer jersey and ferrari hat....and ya, im a renault fan, its just the only F1 thing i own besides models)........
sigh......oh well.....canada was great though.....
and to think Minardi was well into the points!!!! (i still give them props for even taking on F1....that says somthingt right there)
sigh.....i did get Truli's autograph while he was walking into the pits thoguh (i was in a yellow soccer jersey and ferrari hat....and ya, im a renault fan, its just the only F1 thing i own besides models)........
sigh......oh well.....canada was great though.....
and to think Minardi was well into the points!!!! (i still give them props for even taking on F1....that says somthingt right there)
- 143
- 458
- KOXD
Matrixhasu77
same here.....except i was on the outside of turn 6 (on the grass)......i brought my friend (who is a Mercedes fan) and had never been to an F1 event before and it was even more confusing to him than it was to me.......
and the traffic was horendous leaving....we were stuck for well over an hour....
grrrr.....it makes me mad though that only 6 cars drove......they should have just pulled into the pits and red flagged the race......its not a race with only one compeditive team on the track: its a parade
👎maybe next year will be better......assuming indy is still on the schedual.....
- 8,598
- Oklahoma
I feel really bad for those of you that got to go to the race. Hopefully you enjoyed what you did get to see though.
How did your friends that hadn't been to a GP react? Were you later able to explain anything to them? Are they going to continue watching F1 now?
How did your friends that hadn't been to a GP react? Were you later able to explain anything to them? Are they going to continue watching F1 now?
- 1,481
- Tetradic
VashTheStampede
I did enjoy the weekend. Highlights for me include...
1). I got to shake Trulli's hand and tell him I'm a fan!
2). I got to see Trulli take pole.
3). I got to chat with Toyota engineers and PR people for a solid 4 hours on Thursday withing a few feet from JT's car.
4). I had one of the best meals I have ever had (Buca di Beppo in downtown Indy friggin! rocks)
5). I got to see DC and Kimi out and about in downtown Indy.
6). I got to see something historic in F1, something I'm sure I'll say "I was there when.....".
7). My wife got Ralf's signature 2x (she and her mother are Ralf fans, why I don't know though, hahaha.)
8). I got to see a black RUF R-Turbo in person in the Porsche club show...
9). I got to prove to my wife there is such a thing as "German Chocolate Cake" from the Chocolate Store place in Momument Circle.
10). The weather rocked!
All in all I enjoyed my 5 days here in Indy. Much more than last year when my wife and I stayed in east bumble-$&^%, IN (thanks to the IN tourist board).
We will be back next year.
Over dinner discussing the race issue with another couple I realized something.
A). Say the michelin cars DID run the race, though slowing down on turn 13 or going through the pits. What would be the difference between that and what we did see. Ferrari would have still won and the chances of someone getting hurt would have been higher. Remember the tire issue wasn't just on turn 13, it could have happened anywhere, though the results were much worst on turn 13. Not to mention the chances of sonmeone getitng clipped in the pits as the cars drove by.
B). How was what we witnessed, Ferrari 1 & 2 dominating the field, any different from many of the races we saw in 2002 and 2004 with Ferrari stomping the field. In fact it was just alot more simple and easy to see with only 6 cars.
On a side note...
It turns out Bernie's sexist "Women should wear white like all other household appliances" comments were not the worst part of his weekend, go figure!
VashTheStampede
My parents watched the race to see "the italian guy named Jared in the Honda driving because I like him" (Yes my parent's are a bit off, even when I corrected them over and over...Jarno...Toyota....). This was the first F1 race my parents had ever seen. Why all of the sudden they decided to watch it today after many years of me being a fan I don't know.
Anyway when the race was over I had 3 voicemails from my mother. The first was before the race telling me that there was a tire issue (thanks mom for the heads up). Second was about 5 laps into the race telling me only 6 cars started and that Jared wasn't driving his Honda (again, thanks mom). The last was from after the race telling me that I can go to the IMS website for a ticket refund and I should demand my money back at the hotel (again thanks mom...).
I doubt they will ever watch F1 again, then again even if the race was amazing I doubt they would ever watch a race again.
Still I am a bit embarrassed that they saw this race. F1 isn't as simple as seeing a race. I tried to explain to my mother the history of this tire issue but she was more concerned that Jared didn't get a chance to win.
"It's Jarno mom, J-A-R-N-O...."
- 458
- KOXD
oh hell ya, he loved the engine sounds (a fellow car nut) 
he'll be back next year....assuming its on the schedual that is.....
and kensei, are you talking about when he was walking into the pits? i was there Truli is ALOT nicer than Schumi is......he actually signed everyones stuff who asked......
he'll be back next year....assuming its on the schedual that is.....and kensei, are you talking about when he was walking into the pits? i was there
Truli is ALOT nicer than Schumi is......he actually signed everyones stuff who asked......
- 8,598
- Oklahoma
FWA2500oh hell ya, he loved the engine sounds (a fellow car nut)
and kensei, are you talking about when he was walking into the pits? i was there
Well that is good that your friend enjoyed what he did get to see. Its good that someone who was there does not now hate F1 for its crappy showing this weekend. BTW, did you take any pictures?
- 2,492
VashTheStampede
My friend that went with me thought that it the Formula One cars were great but was disappointed like I was that we were unable to see an actual race. I explained to him why I thought it happened because I didn't know the full story until I watched the race replay on SPEED which I recorded on my DVR. Honestly, I knew that the Michelins on Toyota's cars went down but did not expect today's results to happen. It's also probably unlikely that he'll seriously follow Formula One.
I was happy that the bridgestone runners did manage to perform in the race because they had no problem with the track. At least I got some value out of my ticket. I wish I had seen the full field though.
Is it possible that the setup of the Toyota cars may have played into the failure of those two tires instead of tire construction? Both tires failed at two completely different sections of the track. If car setup is what truely caused those failures then the other teams needlessly wasted a grand prix weekend.
- 1,481
- Tetradic
FWA2500oh hell ya, he loved the engine sounds (a fellow car nut)
and kensei, are you talking about when he was walking into the pits? i was there
No I met Jarno at the Airport, Wednesday afternoon. I never saw him at the track but I wore my Trulli/Toyota hat and had a sharpie in my back all weekend just in case. I wish I could of had him sign my hat....
VashTheStampede
I didn't take many pictures this weekend. Though I like the 3 below...
1). The one with the smoke was Red Bull starting their engine for the first time Thursday morning. It made the most nasty noises and produced so much smoke
2). Ralfie signing my wife's program for her mother (that's my lovely wife's hand in the frame)
3). Ralfie, post crash, right before he kicked the thing....
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- 8,598
- Oklahoma
Matrixhasu77
Why won't your friend follow F1? Is just a type of person that doesn't follow racing or is it because of what happened?
I was wondering the same thing if it may have just had to do with the Toyota cars too. Since it was only on two of their cars. I was thinking the same thing earlier. It would be a real shame had it just been because of their setup.
- 8,598
- Oklahoma
kensei
So how much did you get to talk to Jarno? Even if it was just a little, that is still very cool.
I thought of this earlier, but if there is no USGP, will there be a Canadian GP? Especially considering that the two races are usually right next to each other during the year.
- 1,481
- Tetradic
VashTheStampede
He was miffed because (as I later found out at the Toyota pit) that the car sent for him got lost so he had to wait for 2 hours in baggage. I walked up to him, extended my hand, which he took and shook and I said that I was a fan who would be cheering from him all weekend. He looked back at me and said "thank you, I'm 'appy you are here to cheer for me." Then I walked away respecting the guys' privacy....
- 2,492
VashTheStampede
He does follow auto racing but is more into nascar racing.
It would make more sense that the tires failed because of car setup because Michelin had no idea was caused the failure. Strictly my opinion though.
- 1,481
- Tetradic
The core issue with the Michelin tires was this.
There was an issue with the tread delaminating from the shell of the tire, cracking the edge where they join. Toyota was the only team that lost a car and spun another due to it. Though when Michlen examined all the tires from all the teams they saw signs of the issue on ALL other teams, some more than others. I think Red Bull, Renault and Toyota were the ones with the most issue. Something about tire pressure was part of the cause...
The kicker and final decider was that Michelin couldn't say for sure what was causing the issue and couldn't engineer a setup fix for it. That is why they did what they did.
There was an issue with the tread delaminating from the shell of the tire, cracking the edge where they join. Toyota was the only team that lost a car and spun another due to it. Though when Michlen examined all the tires from all the teams they saw signs of the issue on ALL other teams, some more than others. I think Red Bull, Renault and Toyota were the ones with the most issue. Something about tire pressure was part of the cause...
The kicker and final decider was that Michelin couldn't say for sure what was causing the issue and couldn't engineer a setup fix for it. That is why they did what they did.
Just watched wind tunnel... David Hobbs, speed's F1 analyst said he thinks the fans will forgive and be willing to come back next year. My fingers are crossed. He also said the only driver who showed remorse was David Coultard, that out of the drivers he is the only one who said he wanted to race.
"I understood from talking to one of the (Michelin) drivers that despite Turn 13, they would have had the problem anyway, with chicane or without chicane," said schumacher.
If Bridgestone would ask Schumacher not to race (like Michelin did), would he race? "No, there's no point."
Even schumi didnt want to race...kinda makes me lose a little faith in the sport and intentions of the drivers and teams. Maybe it is just about the money.
If Bridgestone would ask Schumacher not to race (like Michelin did), would he race? "No, there's no point."
Even schumi didnt want to race...kinda makes me lose a little faith in the sport and intentions of the drivers and teams. Maybe it is just about the money.
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- 2,185
- Indianapolis
- GTP_ranhammerR34
- RadCoronet5651
🤬 Caution: I write this with my opinion and a combination of a few. I am speechless..... But if you went to the race and had a good time, that's what should matter. A stupid thing like throwing water bottles on the track by fans around you, or some decision by a Moron French Tire maker to pull there cars, (they also had some problems at Le Mans the day before), or went Ralf once again ate Indy wall, or whatever else, be proud of yourself for behaving and having a good time. Yes, I will not disagree about the race was horrible, and Suchmacher didn't want to race because he didn't want to win that way, but he had no choice (and I think he really wanted to race because he and Rubens do like the States and Indy alot). He wanted to fight with Trulli, Raki, Montoya, Webber, DC etc. in a fair fight, not in default. Even worst, what makes me sick is this track has only 9 degrees of banking....I've been to Michigan International Speedway at Brooklyn for the Nextel Race which has double the banking!!! Come on!!!
To Michelin: I hope to high water that you French Morons figure out this problem! You will be back at Indy after this mess, I hope! How the heck can someone do a idiot thing of not making sure the tire was ready for Indy? Instead of sending test drivers to the track or back markers, BMW-Williams, BAR-Honda, Toyota, Reuault, Mercedes etc. 1 of each driver should of tested the tires and maybe then, they could of figured out the problem...better yet...make it open to the public for say $5.00. Oh, why did the Corvettes have problems yesterday at Le Mans, btw Michelin?
To the Fans: This sucks, yeah we got screwed but its not the people who want to blame fault, its actually the tiremaker mentioned above....its that simple. Don't blame Tony George for this... He was willing to compromise... Ferrari doesn't needed to be blamed or anything... They were smart enough not to jump on the Michelin bandwagon like most everyone else and also willing to make it fair fight no-matter what.... Berine, Max and FIA are at fault, as are any Michelin Tire shod team...but the fault mostly is on Michelin for not doing their homework.. they get the f 🤬
👎 
etc.
I just plain love racing...F1, Touring Cars, Rally, Stock Cars....I have Bill Elliott (NASCAR Posters from 1985), and a Dale Sr. poster (with the Wrangler jeans car)... But NASCAR has kinda become boring (unless the track is 1 mile in length or less, then the bumper can be used safely LOL )
...ALMS seems like a fun weekend, as does the NASCAR based Rolex series...but would someone tell the JGTC, DTM, and ATCC to come to America...better yet....Indianapolis Motor Speedway...call Musco Lighting to do some lights and hold the event near the Fourth of July....and have the ALMS race along side too 
but hey, I'm dreaming about that however...sadly...
To Michelin: I hope to high water that you French Morons figure out this problem! You will be back at Indy after this mess, I hope! How the heck can someone do a idiot thing of not making sure the tire was ready for Indy? Instead of sending test drivers to the track or back markers, BMW-Williams, BAR-Honda, Toyota, Reuault, Mercedes etc. 1 of each driver should of tested the tires and maybe then, they could of figured out the problem...better yet...make it open to the public for say $5.00. Oh, why did the Corvettes have problems yesterday at Le Mans, btw Michelin?
To the Fans: This sucks, yeah we got screwed but its not the people who want to blame fault, its actually the tiremaker mentioned above....its that simple. Don't blame Tony George for this... He was willing to compromise... Ferrari doesn't needed to be blamed or anything... They were smart enough not to jump on the Michelin bandwagon like most everyone else and also willing to make it fair fight no-matter what.... Berine, Max and FIA are at fault, as are any Michelin Tire shod team...but the fault mostly is on Michelin for not doing their homework.. they get the f 🤬
👎 etc. I just plain love racing...F1, Touring Cars, Rally, Stock Cars....I have Bill Elliott (NASCAR Posters from 1985), and a Dale Sr. poster (with the Wrangler jeans car)... But NASCAR has kinda become boring (unless the track is 1 mile in length or less, then the bumper can be used safely LOL )
...ALMS seems like a fun weekend, as does the NASCAR based Rolex series...but would someone tell the JGTC, DTM, and ATCC to come to America...better yet....Indianapolis Motor Speedway...call Musco Lighting to do some lights and hold the event near the Fourth of July....and have the ALMS race along side too but hey, I'm dreaming about that however...sadly...
- 692
Okay I just read through this whole thread (nearlly one hour of reading!), and i now have nothing to say as it has all been said.
USGP 2005........what could have been
USGP 2005........what could have been
LOL, nice job being the first to point it out (to my knowledge). I saw part of the race. I even saw some of the qualifying on Speed too, when the toyotas were going off the track and into the wall. When I first tuned into the race, I knew that turn 13 was the problem, but thought that all except 6 cars had crashed out, figured it out soon after. Interesting how then people were throwing their empty beer cans onto the track, must be NASCAR fans the other 364 days outta the year.
- 84,360
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Matrixhasu77
ELEVEN tyres failed in total. Happily the telemetry on 9 of the cars indicated there was a problem and got the team to slow the driver down before an "explosive decompression" occurred. The two Toyota ones simply went at the point of greatest stress - turn 13.
ranhammerR34🤬 Caution: I write this with my opinion and a combination of a few. I am speechless..... But if you went to the race and had a good time, that's what should matter. A stupid thing like throwing water bottles on the track by fans around you, or some decision by a Moron French Tire maker to pull there cars, (they also had some problems at Le Mans the day before), or went Ralf once again ate Indy wall, or whatever else, be proud of yourself for behaving and having a good time. Yes, I will not disagree about the race was horrible, and Suchmacher didn't want to race because he didn't want to win that way, but he had no choice (and I think he really wanted to race because he and Rubens do like the States and Indy alot). He wanted to fight with Trulli, Raki, Montoya, Webber, DC etc. in a fair fight, not in default. Even worst, what makes me sick is this track has only 9 degrees of banking....I've been to Michigan International Speedway at Brooklyn for the Nextel Race which has double the banking!!! Come on!!!
To Michelin: I hope to high water that you French Morons figure out this problem! You will be back at Indy after this mess, I hope! How the heck can someone do a idiot thing of not making sure the tire was ready for Indy? Instead of sending test drivers to the track or back markers, BMW-Williams, BAR-Honda, Toyota, Reuault, Mercedes etc. 1 of each driver should of tested the tires and maybe then, they could of figured out the problem...better yet...make it open to the public for say $5.00. Oh, why did the Corvettes have problems yesterday at Le Mans, btw Michelin?
To the Fans: This sucks, yeah we got screwed but its not the people who want to blame fault, its actually the tiremaker mentioned above....its that simple. Don't blame Tony George for this... He was willing to compromise... Ferrari doesn't needed to be blamed or anything... They were smart enough not to jump on the Michelin bandwagon like most everyone else and also willing to make it fair fight no-matter what.... Berine, Max and FIA are at fault, as are any Michelin Tire shod team...but the fault mostly is on Michelin for not doing their homework.. they get the f 🤬
I just plain love racing...F1, Touring Cars, Rally, Stock Cars....I have Bill Elliott (NASCAR Posters from 1985), and a Dale Sr. poster (with the Wrangler jeans car)... But NASCAR has kinda become boring (unless the track is 1 mile in length or less, then the bumper can be used safely LOL )
hey take it easy yeah i no ur upset but hang on, id like to see you go and select the right tyre for Indinapolis GP, that banked turn puts one of the toughest loads on the tyres on any circuit. i mean if you worked for Michelin and the tyre you suggested to race with there was not used when it should have and the other guys agreed on a bad choice, yeah then you have a strong case to be upset, why dont u go join up with michelin and select tyres for their race meetings because you seem to know everything, if you think Michelin are dumb and stupid then you certainly dont have a brain
its not as simple as just picking out a hard from a soft tyre and going for the hard. Michelin chose the softer available compound because they are aggresive and racy people, Bridgestone were more conservative in their choice. Michelin TRIED very hard to help the issue by asking for a chicane before the banking turn and the FIA refused it, so u should be angry at them aswell because 9/10 teams wanted the chicane apart from Ferrari,
yeah Michelin made a big mistake, LIFE GOES ON and those knobhead american fans who through full beer cans and water bottles out on the track should get punished badly, because that could have caused tyre failures too.
and all this **** saying it was bad for the sport, BULL****, the teams retired because it was unsafe to drive on the tyres, simple as that,
and jdoty, bull**** its about money, if it was the drivers would have all been on the track looking for good money by finishing strongly and the 6 Bridgestone drivers would have been as happy as Larry to have an easy pathway to money
- 158
- ORLEANS - FRANCE
- snypanyx
kensei
Kensei,
I agree 100% of what you said in your post, I have the exact same analsyis.
As several of us have said long before this sad race, the only one tire rule is probably too restrictive for the manufacturers. The F1 history has proved that the engineers are usually very good at resolving the challenges proposed by the FIA. It seems that this time, both manufacturers struggle to resolve the equation Performance + reliability, which may result as a rule change for next year.
But like you said, there is a rule, it applies for everyone, so Michelin is probably the most responsible of the situation.
I thought that the least worse thing to do was to replace the michelin tires and apply penalties to the michelin teams, it would have allowed them to do a decent race, but if what you said is right, the other tires brought back by Michelin weren't able to solve the problem either, so there was no solution at all.
Cancelling the GP , or changing the track configuration would have penalized those who just did their job, after having suffered in the previous races from this specific rule, that would have been unfair too.
Unfortunately there was no real solution.
I'm glad to see that you had a nice week end though, and that you're still enthusiast at watching F1. I hope (but I doubt) most of the people will react like you.
To conclude, I would say that sometimes, bad or sad things can result later as positive things. I hope the FIA, the teams and manufacturers will do an objective analysis of the situation, and will be able to bring back to the F1 it's original soul (a part of it would be a good beginning, I don't dream too much).
Regards,
- 155
This resulted in the strangest results I've ever seen in F1
United States Grand Prix result - 73 laps
1. M.SCHUMACHER Ferrari WINNER
2. BARRICHELLO Ferrari +1.5s
3. MONTEIRO Jordan + 1 lap
4. KARTHIKEYAN Jordan + 1 lap
5. ALBERS Minardi + 2 laps
6. FRIESACHER Minardi + 2 laps
R. TRULLI Toyota +73 laps
R. RAIKKONEN McLaren +73 laps
R. BUTTON BAR +73 laps
R. FISICHELLA Renault +73 laps
R. ALONSO Renault +73 laps
R. SATO BAR +73 laps
R. WEBBER Williams +73 laps
R. MASSA Sauber +73 laps
R. MONTOYA McLaren +73 laps
R. VILLENEUVE Sauber +73 laps
R. ZONTA Toyota +73 laps
R. KLIEN Red Bull +73 laps
R. HEIDFELD Williams +73 laps
R. COULTHARD Red Bull +73 laps
United States Grand Prix result - 73 laps
1. M.SCHUMACHER Ferrari WINNER
2. BARRICHELLO Ferrari +1.5s
3. MONTEIRO Jordan + 1 lap
4. KARTHIKEYAN Jordan + 1 lap
5. ALBERS Minardi + 2 laps
6. FRIESACHER Minardi + 2 laps
R. TRULLI Toyota +73 laps
R. RAIKKONEN McLaren +73 laps
R. BUTTON BAR +73 laps
R. FISICHELLA Renault +73 laps
R. ALONSO Renault +73 laps
R. SATO BAR +73 laps
R. WEBBER Williams +73 laps
R. MASSA Sauber +73 laps
R. MONTOYA McLaren +73 laps
R. VILLENEUVE Sauber +73 laps
R. ZONTA Toyota +73 laps
R. KLIEN Red Bull +73 laps
R. HEIDFELD Williams +73 laps
R. COULTHARD Red Bull +73 laps
