Very Bad Game Design. May Turn Into a Rant :D

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Abriael
Don't worry, some people just love to endlessly whine and nitpick over marginal stuff because PD actually dared to make a great game according to their own vision without bowing to absolutely unrealistic expectations.

Yanno, that's what people on the internets do.
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Boy, have you got some chapped lips.

A valid point that's being brought to people's attention is whining - amazing.


 
@freshseth83 Enjoy the level up system in Grind Yourassmo 5
seriously the only way to defend the A-spec right now is to be level 9 ...max...
 
n00kz
@freshseth83 Enjoy the level up system in Grind Yourassmo 5
seriously the only way to defend the A-spec right now is to be level 9 ...max...
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I disagree with that. Level 25 here with only 5 races repeated.
 
Toronado
If GT5 keeps track of what events you have done (and it probably does, because GT4 did), they could probably backlevel experience from the new system that shows up the first time you play the game after it was patched.
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Okay, I wasn't actually saying 'how could it be done??'

More along the lines of doing so would be a big admission of fault by PD that they got it wrong.

And then doing a large scale change to the points/levels system would upset a lot of players in mid game. The journey to where they are now has been shaped ( well it has in my case ) by things as they are. Stuff like: you can't see what cars are needed in the higher race series (a common gripe), so some of your early choices are a stab in the dark, a guess at what might be needed in future races. "I would never have spent that money on ### car back then when I could have bought this other one and raced it in this race." That sort of thing.

So the idea that what you'd spent a lot of game time doing, has all been re-calculated to suit a fix of the system. In a way their attempt to fix what had been their fault.

There'd be a lot of un-happy players.

What would they do . . . go on-line and complain on a Forum somewhere.
 
MJHAYLETT
Note I love GT5 but.....

You reach Level 23 and unlock Formula Gran Turismo. Great you think. You go looking for the only car that you can use. Oh you find its a Standard Car and therefore only in the random archaic second hand dealer section and therefore you can only buy it when you happen across it. Bad Design Part 1.

You then find it costs abouth 5,000,000 credits - not really bad game design but certainly not conducive to you buying it as 90% of people at this point wont have that much and THAT is if it appears in the Used Car Dealer. I still say Bad Design Part 2.

Then you find you have to be Level 24, assuming you have the money and you find it in the Used Dealer, to buy the only car that is used in a Level 23 race. Bad Game Design Part 3 - DIng Ding Ding - We Have a Winner.
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I'm at that very point in the game.... Bad Design? Dunno...

I was frustrated with the same scenario when it was the pickup truck... cuz i was fixated on 'linear progression' thru the game... PD obviously forcing us to mix it up... forced me to startup my B-Spec 'Bob'... this in turn helped me in other areas... So I'd have to disagree... I'm going to call it design choice and the jury is still out on whether it will be deemed 'good' or 'bad' by future generations. Hell the game is only a week old.

Having said that... the day I finally found a pickup in the used lot... the level 23 Formula GT was in the lot at the same time.. lol but at level 22 who knew? Now I'm going to refrain from ranting about that (for a while) and explore some other areas of the game...

I'll give PD the benefit of the doubt that these were 'choices' rather than 'flaws'. It's gaming 101... make it hard but not impossible...

They took years to cook the meal... savor it instead of trying to gulp it down... OR wait for the reviews before ordering.

Also, as a previous poster mentioned... you are not forced to grind away at license tests before before racing...

I find the forum an invaluable tool to avoid some of these 'GT5 frustrations'... I will probably start a thread to help guide those poor folks that still don't know that have to jump when they see a truck (or other essentials) in the used lot!...
 
Did anyone notice that after you complete a license, there will be a spoken message that informs you that you can now enter more race events? Unfortunately that is complete BS since acquiring a license does not unlock any events. I really would like to know what was going on at Polyphony Digital during development of this game. We need an insider to tell us the true story and then someone can make a documentary about it. I keep going through phases of loving and hating this game. For every time the game makes me feel good, It then throws something as equally frustrating or idiotic back in my direction.
 
Imari
Share your secret then because the rest of us are getting stuck grinding about level 23.
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I really don't know what I did differently, I repeated the Indy race in the American challenge about 6/7 times to get to the endurance races and that was it. :S
 
I hate to draw Forza comparisons but it's fair in this case. I really like Forza 3's setup where multiplayer and single player are connected. You earn money and go up driver level the same in both. And since unlockable cars happen at each level, not from the events, and everything in the game is unlocked form the start, this means you never even have to touch career mode if you don't want to. A player could start Forza 3 and do nothing but multiplayer. This is great for those who prefer online racing to grinding in races against AI.

Personally I played career in F3 for a bit, got through the first 6 seasons or whatever it was, and haven't played career since. This game design just feels so much better and is massively refreshing compared to GT's grind.
 
Abriael
Career structure? forza doesn't have a career structure. It's just "earn money, buy cars", which is just underdeveloped.

I do find it funny how people have to bring out comparison with Forza in every thread. Even more funny given the fact that Forza doesn't even qualify as an actual simulator.
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Forza's career mode is meh. I got to level 44 in Forza and then I just got bored with it. The seasons get longer and longer and longer until it reach a point where it just becomes a total drag. And ... that's ALL THERE IS. There is no whole collection of fun Special Events like we have in GT.

I liked the driving in Forza and spent several months with it but in the end it just got boring. I agree there are flaws in GT5's career progression but I'm sure of one thing: the way Forza handles career mode is NOT the answer.

Addendum: I don't really do online a lot. I find it's full of crashers, cheaters and other kinds of idiots. I guess it can be fun with a bunch of people you know but going online against random people really doesn't do it for me.
 
I'm level 21 now and haven't had to repeat a single event yet. No grind, still working away, heaps of events open to me. I've gotten 53 Golds in License Tests, completed about 45% of the Special events, that's a ridiculous amount of XP right there.

I'll be seeing where this grind is. I have $1.4 mil in the bank:

I own a large number or sports cars I intended on purchasing.
'06 and '08 Viper
Z06, ZR1, Ford GT, Italia, Murcielago SV, Gallardo, SLS AMG, GT-R Spec-V, 370, 350...

and other numerous vehicles I needed for specific competitions. I haven't spent money recklessly buying performance upgrades when they aren't even needed. Maybe that's why I haven't felt the 'grind' yet.
 
Abriael
Yep, it's fleshed out because IGN says that. Can't spell IGNorant without IGN :D

The result is nothing more than being presented with a randomized list of event with no real guidance and that gets old very fast since it lacks real progression or purpose. At least PD has tried to put in some.



Can't be defined a racing simulator when you don't even simulate the most widespread racing drivetrain correctly. I'm still Lolling (not to cry, really), at the fact that they slapped RWD cars in their own online ghetto because they couldn't bother actually fixing them (too busy nickel and dime-ing us with DLC cars).
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No it's fleshed put because it IS fleshed out. It's a fact. It has a lot of the events that you would dream up in your bedroom as a boy car lover.
 
TheMarco
Forza's career mode is meh. I got to level 44 in Forza and then I just got bored with it.
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You are a tough man. I've got completely bored at level 30, Forza 3 feels like you are driving same track with little variations 100 times, and then another.

Though I would like to see some kind of guide "how to pass A-Spec with a minimal amount of cars". At first glance it looks like you should repeat every race 5-10 times just to get money/levels and proceed further
 
Rage0329
I'm level 21 now and haven't had to repeat a single event yet. No grind, still working away, heaps of events open to me. I've gotten 53 Golds in License Tests
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So instead repeating races, you repeated License Tests. Not a big difference.

As for me I can't see the point trying 10 times to pass some single turn a bit faster
 
Scoochy619
It's called a challenge and trying to meet it. Some people like challenges.
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I'm in the first row!

Just can't see what is special about passing one turn, I do it in races all the time. Or drive Nurburgring in four parts and then the whole lap? Why don't just put the track in arcade so I can hot lap it with any car trying to beat Horst von Saurma?

I like much more NFS 5 Factory Driver approach, cone courses, duels and so on. Something different from usual races
 
otago
You are a tough man. I've got completely bored at level 30, Forza 3 feels like you are driving same track with little variations 100 times, and then another.

Though I would like to see some kind of guide "how to pass A-Spec with a minimal amount of cars". At first glance it looks like you should repeat every race 5-10 times just to get money/levels and proceed further
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Hardly like GT5 at all.

I mean I am doing a 5 lap race of the Indy speedway 20 more times so I can unlock a race where I drive a Miata around a race track for 4 hours.



O wait hang on........
 
OK, so the game doesn't always flow. I wouldn't say it stops you dead in your tracks, there's always something else to do with the game. I don't think it was designed as a linear path in sequence. I know it's frustrating, but this also keeps the interest up in the long term. The game isn't supposed to be finished in a week! I sure don't want to either, we probably have another 259 weeks to wait for GT6, so this is going to have to last a while!
 
Egghead43
OK, so the game doesn't always flow. I wouldn't say it stops you dead in your tracks, there's always something else to do with the game. I don't think it was designed as a linear path in sequence. I know it's frustrating, but this also keeps the interest up in the long term. The game isn't supposed to be finished in a week! I sure don't want to either, we probably have another 259 weeks to wait for GT6, so this is going to have to last a while!
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It doesn't keep my interest anymore. When this supposed December patch comes out ill try out online play agaom but if the single player stays the way it is I doubt I will be playing it much anymore. (besides screwing around with various cars on nurburgring)

Especially since wows new expansion comes out Tuesday..... If i want to play an RPG i will actually play one.
 
I just made it to level 20 and haven't grinded yet. If I need to gain levels I'll just go for gold on the licenses and special events.
 
fitftw
I just made it to level 20 and haven't grinded yet. If I need to gain levels I'll just go for gold on the licenses and special events.
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I've like the series from the beginning, because it was about racing and looking forward for the next races. Now, PD went a step backwards, my feeling is that I am dreading each level the higher I go, cuz to level up I have to repeat, and or redo some special event. Kaz should've just hold off before releasing the game, now I know why he was reluctant to release it when he did, because it's an RPG game more then racing. I am going to buy a PS2 and do GT4 again, lol.
 
I've seen it twice and I'm only level 18 :P

btw I'm not playing for leveling or 100% completion, but to try lot of different cars
 
You guys dont seem to play in Special events dont you? Men, just do Special Events. if you can make gold you win like 100k each. and higher level special events even more money.

And 1 tipp. Re-Race the Turbo Event (A-Spec) you win each 5 min 32k.
 
MAidioPT
You guys dont seem to play in Special events dont you? Men, just do Special Events. if you can make gold you win like 100k each. and higher level special events even more money.

And 1 tipp. Re-Race the Turbo Event (A-Spec) you win each 5 min 32k.
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I'm level 23 and I've done all the special events unlocked in gold, and I still have to grind to get level 24, for what, for the pd f1? and in that whole championship I'm supossed to get enough xp for all the 24th level? yeah sure...

Another tip, american stars, 98k in 5 minutes.
 
Jacob6875
It doesn't keep my interest anymore. When this supposed December patch comes out ill try out online play agaom but if the single player stays the way it is I doubt I will be playing it much anymore. (besides screwing around with various cars on nurburgring)

Especially since wows new expansion comes out Tuesday..... If i want to play an RPG i will actually play one.
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What's wows new expansion? Is it a new driving/racing sim? The way it sounds, you're probably not the right candidate for GT5. The one about screwing around on the nurburgring sounded quite blasphemous.
 
i dont get why ppl are complaing.

like with the British Lightweight races,
"oh dam, i gotta buy an elise? and tune it up for 60k?" to win what? 20k?

yeah if you do it once, you lose money.

ive made like 350k on that race with a 50k elise. So im ahead 300k.

what do you want? buy a car and mod it for a total of 3k and win 50k?

i dont think so.
 
mykem
What's wows new expansion? Is it a new driving/racing sim? The way it sounds, you're probably not the right candidate for GT5. The one about screwing around on the nurburgring sounded quite blasphemous.
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He was making a point, almost no one is disagreeing that GT5 is more than a little too much like a RPG grind. It has been artificially lengthened because it lacks content. Neither GT4 or even GT3 were like this really.

You don't have to be on such a high horse, Mr Elite I know who should or shouldn't be playing the game.
 
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shaynskyline
i dont get why ppl are complaing.

like with the British Lightweight races,
"oh dam, i gotta buy an elise? and tune it up for 60k?" to win what? 20k?

yeah if you do it once, you lose money.

ive made like 350k on that race with a 50k elise. So im ahead 300k.

what do you want? buy a car and mod it for a total of 3k and win 50k?

i dont think so.
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Because other people might not be like you, shocking I know!
 

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