Viability of older race cars from GT6 in GT Sport (Honda NSX LM Race Car)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Skygrasper550, Sep 29, 2018.

  1. Alpha Cipher

    Alpha Cipher

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    I give up; trying to explain balance will never work. Wish whatever you want, just don't go silent on me once I ask why it's so uncompetitive when they do add it to Gr. 3 like those who defended Group C's inclusion in Gr. 1 did. I expect an explanation
     
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  2. Skygrasper550

    Skygrasper550 Premium

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    You are taking a speculation/wishful thinking post waaaaayy too seriously. It's not like whatever I say here will happen to the game; I'm not Kaz, I'm not a PD employee. Maybe it's just plain nostalgia fueling my desire to have the car included in the game, who knows. Yes, the performance gap and overall pace between Group C and current LMP1 is vastly different (Group C has way more straight line speed while LMP1 has more downforce and low speed grip; I just tested the Audi R18 and was shocked at its low speed grip despite being rear-wheel drive just like Group C), which is why I don't like having Group C in Gr.1 like many others.

    But on the other hand, I don't think it's the same case with the old GT1 and current GT3, seeing as how they're not as hardcore as LMP1 is. This is me judging from what I know in GT6, seeing as how the Storm's PP value is right there with the GT3 cars in that game, plus they're both modern GT racing cars. I don't remember driving the Storm in GT6 (there's one more brownie point for you if you want one), but I do remember driving GT3 cars and racing in Quick Match events, especially that one at the Red Bull Ring which involved GT3 cars and the Corvette Z06 LM. If the difference in performance between old GT1 and current GT3 is the same case between Group C and LMP1, then fine, whatever. Not a big deal on my end. I don't owe anyone, not even you, an explanation or apology from this small and simple wishful thinking.
     
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  3. Islaygaz

    Islaygaz

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    Why don't we just scrap the groups and revert to the PP system from GT6??

    As for Sport Mode - PD can just specify a car list so we get a 'Gr.3' or 'Gr.4' etc. race.
     
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  4. Skygrasper550

    Skygrasper550 Premium

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    You have no idea how many people want the PP system back (including me) once they found out about the N-classes and the Gr.X thing. Sure, the PP system may not be perfect, but it's definitely a lot better than what we have right now.
     
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  5. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    I’ll be honest. Most of the suggestions in this thread for classification systems are complete garbage. (Although that’s not even the point of this thread, read the title please.)

    The PP system was broken. In its last days, 600PP lobbies were dominated by the TS030 Hybrid, 550 was dominated by that Shelby convertible, 500 was dominated by the GSX-R/4 and so on. Ditching the Group classes/BoP system for that mess is the last thing I’d want in a GT game right now. I’d take a racing game with BoP’d motor wagons from the 1890’s as the only class before I ever went back to that.
     
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  6. Skygrasper550

    Skygrasper550 Premium

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    Similar to my post in the Pagani Zonda thread, I will also be posting my Zonda LM lap time here, so as for this thread to serve as a catalog for those wondering about the viability of older race cars in GT6, should they be included in any of the current classes in GT Sport. From here on out I will be using Nurburging GP as a benchmark course and Racing:Soft tires to get the best possible lap time. I will update this post to include the "Mock BoP" that I applied to the car, because I was rushing to get footage from other cars and so forgot to note down the specs of the Zonda.

    Car: Pagani Zonda LM Race Car
    Lap Time: 1:57.187
    Course: Nurburging GP
    Tires: Racing:Soft



    Feedback from the Zonda; very squirelly at low speeds. I could get the lap time down to the 1:56 range but it's quite difficult so I settled for a more consistent pace.

    I should point out that, for some reason, the replay fails to count the last few milliseconds in the lap time. I don't know why, but other than that the replay program in GT6 is working as intended.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
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  7. Alpha Cipher

    Alpha Cipher

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    I can do a 1:58 in an average Gr. 3 car in Racing Hards. And I'm far from the best driver there is

    Looking at your cornering speeds it's comparable, if not slightly less, than an average Gr. 3 car. On Racing Hards. I'm finding less and less of a reason why this should be added to the game. Even BoP won't save this car if the pace difference is this much
     
  8. Skygrasper550

    Skygrasper550 Premium

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    Good for you, then.

    I can get the lap time down to the 1:56 range but the Zonda LM is quite unstable at low speeds and under heavy braking, so I settled for a more consistent pace.

    You must be SUPER BORED. That's the only reason I can think of as to why I elicit such an aggressive reaction from you with my thread, and why you're now low-key rubbing your superior skills on my face.

    I was gonna say "don't worry, I have more footage of faster cars (and some slower) than this", but then I remembered you said "I give up" so right now I'm confused.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
  9. SestoScudo

    SestoScudo

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    Add more classes the Zonda LM racecar is like a GT1 car or should I say the GTS class for its time.

    So it would compete with the Chevy C5.R, Ferrari 550 Maranello GTS, Lister Storm was well.competing into the early 2000s and the Saleen S7R.
     
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  10. Skygrasper550

    Skygrasper550 Premium

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    That's the better option but it's very unlikely, seeing as how PD botches the Vulcan by not giving the downforce it should have just so they could force it in the N-class.
     
  11. Alpha Cipher

    Alpha Cipher

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    :lol: I'm not trying to, but sorry if it came across like that
    Honestly that's what you could've shown instead. At least the time difference wouldn't be so big between the two. At the very least I would've said it would be a worse version of the Lambo instead of immediately binning it to the "Group C in Gr. 1" stigma, but it's pretty close
     
  12. Skygrasper550

    Skygrasper550 Premium

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    Whatever you say, Mr. Edgelord.

    If you're talking about the Diablo GT-1, I already have footage of that but I don't have it up yet. Like the Zonda it's unstable at low speeds but it has more grip once you get it flat, so it easily sets a 1:56 lap time.
     
  13. FoRiZon

    FoRiZon

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    It has changed in major ways by 2 things:

    - Gr1 or LMP no longer favors Group C cars. In fact, the GrC cars is much slower and also harder to handle than the modern ones (especially hybrids) despite having more horsepower, something that actually true to life. In GT6, horsepower basically dominates anything else and handling wise is virtually identical.

    - Superlight cars (like XBow) now has disadvantages for being too light, that is prone to oversteer. In GT6 it doesn't take into account and thus those cars have better handling than even some race cars despite having no downforce.
     
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  14. ShiftingGears

    ShiftingGears

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    Not sure why you'd want GT6 cars rehashed for GT Sport just because they were in GT6. I like being surprised by new cars being added to the series.
     
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  15. Alpha Cipher

    Alpha Cipher

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    So another bad Lamborghini, except now it's actually a Lamborghini?
     
  16. CLowndes888

    CLowndes888

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    I've seen several people put old Super GT cars in their wishlists for Group 2, but the truth is, they'd get clobbered there. The old crop of cars such as the '08 GT-R, the '07 NSX and the '08 SC430 are horribly underpowered for that class, yet overpowered for Group 3. It's a similar story for the JGTC cars. They probably could compete in Group 3 but they would dominate. They are not viable by any means, but some GT300 cars could fit into Group 3 rather well.
     
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  17. RZQSPEED

    RZQSPEED

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    90's JGTC GT500 cars are based off on FIA GT1 aero regulations at that time, but they could probably be shoved into Gr.3, but then again, why not the LM GT1 cars that are not based off on road going prototypes?

    Kind of liked to see the pre-2014 GT500 cars tussling against modern GT3 machinery, where the former's cornering abilities would be their strongest suit against the grunt of several GT3 machines.

    But the easiest solution? Use PD's library of LM Race Cars! Just look at the Ford GT LM and the GT by Citroen Race Car, which are supposed to be built around the GT1 class regulations, which the GT500 category before the Turbo 4 era was heavily based on, yet they were adapted into the Gr.3 category!
     
  18. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    How about the DTM IS F, CCS Lexus IS F VLN race car, '10 Camaro SS RM, CLK DTM, A4 DTM, TT DTM.

    Thing about those DTM cars. The E46 M3 GTR was classed with them in GT4/5/6. So, they won't have enough power to run with Gr. 3 and too much downforce for Gr.4.
    I'm guessing the old DTM cars would be detuned for Gr. 4 like the Trophy '11. Nurb GP might be a good track to test them, versus Gr. 4 times.
     
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  19. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    They would be far better off creating R categories to keep cars from amy era racing against cars from the same era.
     
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  20. FoRiZon

    FoRiZon

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    This is the case in GT6 though the GT300 was considerably slower than the GT3 cars.

    It has to do with the past SuperGT GT500 rule changes where the Horsepower suddenly creeps up. I think it also removes the FR layout restriction thus the NSX can come back but at the same time restricts the engine so they all uses 2 Liter Turbos.
     
  21. Skygrasper550

    Skygrasper550 Premium

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    Yeah, the old Super GT cars have far superior downforce compared to Gr.3, especially the Honda HSV-010. I do plan on recording some footage with that car.

    I already have footage of the E46 M3 GTR, and it's crazy. With my Mock BoP it set a 1:55 time. I should have it up later.

    I checked the specs of the IS-F CCS-R, and it looks like it's an easy Gr.4. I actually have been thinking of getting footage for the TT-R DTM, just to get an example from the DTM roster.
     
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  22. Skygrasper550

    Skygrasper550 Premium

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    Following up my Zonda LM video, this time I have the Lamborghini NOMAD Diablo GT-1. The video this time is two-part; first part is the normal replay camera, and the next part is the same run but using roof camera.

    Car: Lamborghini NOMAD Diablo GT-1
    Lap Time: 1:54.575 (-1.427 against benchmark)
    Course: Nurburging GP
    Tires: Racing:Soft
    Power: 550hp
    Limiter: 93.1%
    Weight: 1280kg



    This wasn't easy. Like the Zonda it gets very squirrelly at low speeds, and being MR it can corner pretty fast at medium to high speeds. But unlike the Zonda, it's much more forgiving because it doesn't take a lot of effort to make the car flat again after squiggling for a bit. I was actually surprised at the lap time it could make. Even so, I still had to wrestle the car around the track just so I could get that lap time. It's fast, but I don't like it.

    EDIT: added time difference against benchmark
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
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  23. Crazy Taylor

    Crazy Taylor

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    What's the fixation of always wanting older cars from Gt6 about. GTS should look forward instead of going us old cars all the time (even though it's easier to). Would rather prefer they added present race cars the are affiliated like the GT sport GT-R GT3.
     
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  24. Alpha Cipher

    Alpha Cipher

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    Go figure
     
  25. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    Because we want the content we used to have. Yes it would be nice to get new stuff as well but that would have to be in addition to returning cars.
     
  26. Crazy Taylor

    Crazy Taylor

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    It just smacks of effort nowadays. 10 months of mostly 'old car's. Just the way the gaming industry seems to be. Easier to bring stuff from yesteryear. Really its only new original PD tracks we get, save a few cars.
     
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  27. Skygrasper550

    Skygrasper550 Premium

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    Looks like you're using a wheel. That would explain your claimed 1:56 on Hards and the super smooth input on your 1:53 run with Softs. I don't have that luxury, so I can only manage a 1:56 or so on Softs using a pad and a BoP GT-R GT3.
     
  28. Alpha Cipher

    Alpha Cipher

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    mthomas_95 and hellZfirE would like to have a word with you regarding pace differentials between wheel and pad users :lol:
     
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  29. Skygrasper550

    Skygrasper550 Premium

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    Tag them here if you want, but I doubt they'll be of any help. Here's the best I can manage using the same car and with BoP enabled. I tried reducing the rear camber down to 2.0 so that I can have more grip coming out of low-speed corners, but the smoothness of the input from a wheel setup is just something I find impossible to replicate with a DS4. Honestly I should have put this up (a benchmark lap) in the first place, but better late than never.

    Car: Lexus RC-F GT3 Emil Frey Racing '17
    Lap Time: 1:56.002
    Course: Nurburging GP
    Tires: Racing:Soft
    BoP Settings: Enabled



    Next time you want to compare lap times between two completely different setups and skill levels, and then spout statements like "Go figure", you might want to look at your signature from time to time:

     
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  30. AlanH49

    AlanH49

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    Those could all comfortably slot into Gr.3. As could older GT1’s like the short-tail F1 GTR and F40 LM. All have similar performance parameters to current GTE/GT3 cars.

    Likewise if PD introduced older Group A touring cars like the E30 M3, 190 EVO II, R32 GT-R, you could slot them into Gr.4.

    The really difficult class is Gr.2 as the only like for like cars are DTM. I guess you could also use newer GT1 cars like the long-tail F1 GTR, 911 GT1, CLK-LM. There are also modern track only Hypercars like the P1 GTR and FXXK.

    Maybe once we are upto 500-600 cars then you could start splitting groups based on age.