Video games...we don't play no stink'in video games!!

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zr1chris
Sounds are realistic??? I agree its a simulator but you cant be serious about the sounds being realistic. The engine startup when you get in the cars is the only part that is realistic.
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They are for the most part, just not when you over-tune an under efficient car - or just a car that shouldn't/can't be tuned. Like a Lambo OR Fiat 500. I'm not saying all the sounds are right. I think other sounds need a bit of work too.
 
another_jakhole
They are for the most part, just not when you over-tune an under efficient car - or just a car that shouldn't/can't be tuned. Like a Lambo OR Fiat 500. I'm not saying all the sounds are right. I think other sounds need a bit of work too.
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And I say "none of the sounds are ok". Most cars sound more hilarious than realistic. Not even one of the premiums is ok soundwise
 
It's a videogame. Drive a real car on the Nurburgring at 200mph and you'll think GT5 is child's play. Because it is. It's a grown man's version of playing with Hot Wheels.
 
another_jakhole
They are for the most part, just not when you over-tune an under efficient car - or just a car that shouldn't/can't be tuned. Like a Lambo OR Fiat 500. I'm not saying all the sounds are right. I think other sounds need a bit of work too.
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You should listen to the sounds on that other game on that other console. Those aren't perfect either but they sound a TON better than GT5. Case closed, since this is off-topic anyway.
 
zr1chris
You should listen to the sounds on that other game on that other console. Those aren't perfect either but they sound a TON better than GT5. Case closed, since this is off-topic anyway.
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They just sound deeper. I'd rather have the vacuum cleaner than a wounded boar.
 
IT'S NOT JUST A VIDEO GAME, MAAAAAAN. IT'S AN EXPERIENCE

:lol:
 
McLaren
This made me laugh because a real simulator would make GT5 look like an arcade game at the end of the day.
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Red Bull's sim comes to mind. It makes all home set ups look like Best Buy displays.
 
One thing that makes the GT5 more of a game than hc simulator is the cornerstone of driving simulation: tiremodel. We can't affect the tire pressure, there doesn't seem to be changing track temperatures and the game doesn't show the tire temperature spread. All these are important parts of performance driving and because tires do all the power transfer from the car to road this ain't a small insignificant matter either.

GT5 is a nice game and does some things quite well but it's still a game and not too realistic at that when going to details.
 
Griffith500
But playing a "sim" with a mouse doesn't make it any less of a sim either. It's just harder (for me). The peripheral means nothing to the genre. The "point", surely, is down to the player. There was one person who wanted GT5 just to spectate. Surely that defeats the "point" of the sim? Well, not for this particular individual.
Not using a wheel may not be the "point" for you, but it doesn't change the underlying game, only the way the player interacts with it; itself depending on the particular player. Some people probably cannot physically use a wheel and / or pedals, for example.

You probably should have just said that wheel support is important for a sim, for you. I agree wholeheartedly. Except you said the only way GT5 is a sim is if a wheel is used. I think that goes beyond semantics, but it's not important either way.



Basically, and this goes for the whole thread, I just don't think people should be belittling the way other people choose to experience the game when they're probably well aware of the limitations in the way they're interacting with it. Likewise this whole "it's not a game" idea - it just smacks of elitism.
I will admit there are contentious issues regarding precisely how deserving GT5 is of the "sim" moniker, but there are threads for that already.
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ultimatley I think that it doesn't matter how much of a sim a game is, if you don't use a wheel you are not getting the full Sim experience. But I'll flesh my thoughts out a bit more and provide more clarity. The game needs decent Force feedback wheel support, which conveys information to the player via the wheel. I understand that the limiting factor of a game like GT5 is that it can ONLY convey via the wheel, which in itself is not realistic. But at the very least the game has to be built around wheel support first and foremost, with pad and other controls just added for those who don't have a wheel. Any game that is fully designed around a pad is not a sim IMO.

A major downside of Forza (from what I've read), that even with a wheel the game "assists" the player, which loses a lot of Sim marks for Forza.

GTAIV wasn't designed around wheel support so is not a sim, so wasn't a good argument example IMO.

It's not about "what" controller method is used, it's about what controller the game was designed around to be best played with.

In retrospect my earlier post should have specified that at a bare MINIMUM, to be regarded as a sim a game needs to be designed with wheel support at the forefront of the process and once that is as right as the games physics can do then sort out other controller support.

I am not belittling how others play the game and I hope that is not how you've viewed my posts on this subject. (that is if you're referring to my posts)

So, on topic, I think that GT5 is a video game with Sim aspirations. If PD would give the options to allow a player to set the game up as they wished then it would qualify more as a "sim", but it's restrictive setup that panders to the non sim gamers constantly hampers the game IMO.
 
Sohvakettu
One thing that makes the GT5 more of a game than hc simulator is the cornerstone of driving simulation: tiremodel. We can't affect the tire pressure, there doesn't seem to be changing track temperatures and the game doesn't show the tire temperature spread. All these are important parts of performance driving and because tires do all the power transfer from the car to road this ain't a small insignificant matter either.

GT5 is a nice game and does some things quite well but it's still a game and not too realistic at that when going to details.
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I agree, with tyre pressure changes a cars handling could be tweaked even without the adjustable suspension.

Just thought of a few other areas where GT5 loses Sim points.

From a standing start all cars accelerate in a straight line, even the really how powered cars don't "squirm around".

(much discussed) the drafting is over exaggerated.
 
robbo6
ultimatley I think that it doesn't matter how much of a sim a game is, if you don't use a wheel you are not getting the full Sim experience. But I'll flesh my thoughts out a bit more and provide more clarity. The game needs decent Force feedback wheel support, which conveys information to the player via the wheel. I understand that the limiting factor of a game like GT5 is that it can ONLY convey via the wheel, which in itself is not realistic. But at the very least the game has to be built around wheel support first and foremost, with pad and other controls just added for those who don't have a wheel. Any game that is fully designed around a pad is not a sim IMO.

A major downside of Forza (from what I've read), that even with a wheel the game "assists" the player, which loses a lot of Sim marks for Forza.

GTAIV wasn't designed around wheel support so is not a sim, so wasn't a good argument example IMO.

It's not about "what" controller method is used, it's about what controller the game was designed around to be best played with.

In retrospect my earlier post should have specified that at a bare MINIMUM, to be regarded as a sim a game needs to be designed with wheel support at the forefront of the process and once that is as right as the games physics can do then sort out other controller support.

I am not belittling how others play the game and I hope that is not how you've viewed my posts on this subject. (that is if you're referring to my posts)

So, on topic, I think that GT5 is a video game with Sim aspirations. If PD would give the options to allow a player to set the game up as they wished then it would qualify more as a "sim", but it's restrictive setup that panders to the non sim gamers constantly hampers the game IMO.
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I accept that GT5 is a racing game that leans towards "sim". I agree that getting the most out of a sim, for me, requires a wheel and pedals. I mentioned GTAIV precisely because nobody calls it a sim, even though it has the most "sim" handling the series has ever seen. The game may not have been originally designed with a wheel in mind, but it supports (pseudo) analogue inputs just fine, although hardware support is sketchy (deviceIDs).

That doesn't change the fact that any "sim" being bought off the shelf and played by the general public is a game. I.e. Gran Turismo 5 being a "simulator" does not make it any less of a game. Likewise, playing GT5 with the DS3 / Sixaxis doesn't change the underlying sim-ness of the game, only your interaction with it; turning the screen off doesn't make the game any less of a sim either - it's still there, you just can't see what's happening. The controller used (note, I didn't say supported) has no impact on the "sim rating" of a particular game, since that hinges on the underlying code, not a high-level input device.

There is no need, in the context of this thread, to count GT5's "sim points", in my opinion. It is by no means a true simulator (and I doubt it really aspires to be), as used by the professionals; much in the same way that the ARMA series are not true simulators, despite the fact that Bohemia Interactive also makes a proper simulator with a modified version of the code.

Ergo, GT5 is a game in the racing / simulation genre because it is meant to entertain.
 
robbo6
A major downside of Forza (from what I've read), that even with a wheel the game "assists" the player, which loses a lot of Sim marks for Forza
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You've been duped. I don't know what fanboy came up with that one, but it's untrue. Both games have steering assist, as well has other aids common to both, and it all can be toggled off/on in Forza the same has GT. Fanboys just kept chanting many such BS things untill people started to believe them to be fact.
 
NA
You've been duped. I don't know what fanboy came up with that one, but it's untrue. Both games have steering assist, as well has other aids common to both, and it all can be toggled off/on in Forza the same has GT. Fanboys just kept chanting many such BS things untill people started to believe them to be fact.
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There are videos, that prove, that a steering assist still helps to drive while you deactivate everything in Forza3.
 
Big Ron
There are videos, that prove, that a steering assist still helps to drive while you deactivate everything in Forza3.
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Uhhh, and nobody ever fakes videos on the net........ I just played an hour ago and the only thing steering my car was me no matter how many videos claim to show otherwise. In fact I find many cars to be harder than GT. That doesn't mean it's more realistic, but there are definitly no hidden aids at work. Fanboy BS.
 
zr1chris
Thats the whole point of a simulator. You will never find a simulator that you could actually get hurt or breathe in exhaust fumes. The question is, "is it a simulator" not "is it real". Be serious.
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It's a Simulator only when you have a it take place in mock up car body, with 360degrees virtual view and with feed back like a real driving. Then I agree it's a simulatior
 
NA
You've been duped. I don't know what fanboy came up with that one, but it's untrue. Both games have steering assist, as well has other aids common to both, and it all can be toggled off/on in Forza the same has GT. Fanboys just kept chanting many such BS things untill people started to believe them to be fact.
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Although this does belong in some other thread, I have to jump in and put some light here.

Unlike Forza 2 - and upcoming Forza 4, as have been officially announced - Forza 3 does have permanent steering assist that can't be turned off. It acts like invisible "hand of steer" and it handicaps lateral movement of the car and corrects loss of traction and stability in high-speed maneuvering - resulting with permanent assist in steering and dumbing-down physics model of tires, suspension and chassis.

It can't be turned-off because it is "built" in steering model as a buffer for fast left/right changes of directions in order to cater and favor controller-players and make overall physics more accessible.

Fortunately, loud voice of sim-lovers community - especially all of us who are driving with the wheels - was strong enough to force Turn10 to reconsider all bad decisions made in FM3 regarding both online and physics (non-ABS braking and collision-physics were also severely dumbed-down compared to FM2) and I have strong hopes that in FM4 we will get assists-off physics, together with proper non-ABS braking physics and collision-physics as in FM2.

Sorry for the OT.
 
For the OP, or those that still thinking that gt series is the prima dona of race sim...

Unfortunately there is not any sort of device that can transmit a feeling of a car in a race track. You can argue about any sort of aspect in the increase of technology nowadays, blablabla, but no dude. There is not. Gt series is a console game and, as you may readed along this thread, a conclusion that may be implicit here is that not exist niche games, nor niche companies for niche public. 6 million copies of gt5 were sold worldwide. Put here an average price of $35 and multiply and... Voalá $210x10^6 dollars, plus publicity contracts and anything that implies within. Simple, plain capitalistic way to aquire money... ( not arguing about that, just stating... )
Okay, conclusion of all this blablabla: stop to complain, it would not change. Is like complain about how inaccurate a inflated doll feels in the comparison of real human been.
So, what I suggest:
U are under the legal age for driving or u wanna not to expend too much money and you live in a nice country, with a good economy and stuff, and with a nice and organized confederation of racing sports: buy a kart, buy some safety equipment, joing a club of that matter and be happy. My calculation over cost hit $3000, that include nice safety equipment, a reasonable kart for a begginer, some taxes and money to maintain it for a year.
Oh, I hate karts, you may say... Ok then...
How about a car, a roadster...
A mid 90's Miata in the Us cost something about $1500 - 3500, engine overhaul bout 950 bucks, car overhaul, with nice sports tyres, exaust system, bodywork and painting $3000 up to ... Depends, but anyway... Safety equip about 500, some casual races organized by local race club, about none up to 60 bucks... Or some trackdays in good courses like Laguna Seca, Indy and so and so...
You can even build your race machine, like a porsche 356 replica, 2.0 litres air cooled boxer engine, dual weber carbs, 5 gear adapted trans, disc break in all wheels, indepedent suspension, 16 inches wheels, leather interior, blablabla... $11k and a ******ing smile in the face for the rest of life.
I dont wanna buy a car, you must argue... Caterhan, for instance, organize track days with and you can rent a car to drive, a nurb lap cost €24, AMG have program of driving for less than €1000 for a nice weekend, and countless way to get a glimpse of what is a race track.
Oh, but PS3 is cheaper, you may state....
Looking at ebay, 360Gb new ps3, about 500 to 600 bucks, gt5 20, a wheel with pedals 300, racing seat, a nice tv... Well it seems a question of priorities...
If you are under 18 or the legal age and wanna race, save money for the day... Work a lot, or a bit, graduate, save money, buy a car for the family, but save a bit for your dream... Don't be frustated, relaying all your hopes in a video game...
Hate me for this long list of sh***tness, argue about the prices, the reality, anything.... But please, stop worring about gt5 reflects or not a race physics, or any subject related...
Do something useful for your life...

Ps: Moderators, if I break any rules related to well been or so, spelling and concordance problems, please let me know, I can correct asap.
 
Rods_Ramone
For the OP, or those that still thinking that gt series is the prima dona of race sim...

Unfortunately there is not any sort of device that can transmit a feeling of a car in a race track. You can argue about any sort of aspect in the increase of technology nowadays, blablabla, but no dude. There is not. Gt series is a console game and, as you may readed along this thread, a conclusion that may be implicit here is that not exist niche games, nor niche companies for niche public. 6 million copies of gt5 were sold worldwide. Put here an average price of $35 and multiply and... Voalá $210x10^6 dollars, plus publicity contracts and anything that implies within. Simple, plain capitalistic way to aquire money... ( not arguing about that, just stating... )
Okay, conclusion of all this blablabla: stop to complain, it would not change. Is like complain about how inaccurate a inflated doll feels in the comparison of real human been.
So, what I suggest:
U are under the legal age for driving or u wanna not to expend too much money and you live in a nice country, with a good economy and stuff, and with a nice and organized confederation of racing sports: buy a kart, buy some safety equipment, joing a club of that matter and be happy. My calculation over cost hit $3000, that include nice safety equipment, a reasonable kart for a begginer, some taxes and money to maintain it for a year.
Oh, I hate karts, you may say... Ok then...
How about a car, a roadster...
A mid 90's Miata in the Us cost something about $1500 - 3500, engine overhaul bout 950 bucks, car overhaul, with nice sports tyres, exaust system, bodywork and painting $3000 up to ... Depends, but anyway... Safety equip about 500, some casual races organized by local race club, about none up to 60 bucks... Or some trackdays in good courses like Laguna Seca, Indy and so and so...
You can even build your race machine, like a porsche 356 replica, 2.0 litres air cooled boxer engine, dual weber carbs, 5 gear adapted trans, disc break in all wheels, indepedent suspension, 16 inches wheels, leather interior, blablabla... $11k and a ******ing smile in the face for the rest of life.
I dont wanna buy a car, you must argue... Caterhan, for instance, organize track days with and you can rent a car to drive, a nurb lap cost €24, AMG have program of driving for less than €1000 for a nice weekend, and countless way to get a glimpse of what is a race track.
Oh, but PS3 is cheaper, you may state....
Looking at ebay, 360Gb new ps3, about 500 to 600 bucks, gt5 20, a wheel with pedals 300, racing seat, a nice tv... Well it seems a question of priorities...
If you are under 18 or the legal age and wanna race, save money for the day... Work a lot, or a bit, graduate, save money, buy a car for the family, but save a bit for your dream... Don't be frustated, relaying all your hopes in a video game...
Hate me for this long list of sh***tness, argue about the prices, the reality, anything.... But please, stop worring about gt5 reflects or not a race physics, or any subject related...
Do something useful for your life...

Ps: Moderators, if I break any rules related to well been or so, spelling and concordance problems, please let me know, I can correct asap.
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Dude relax! I got huge entertainment from all the responses to my post. I own an '05 STI, which is a pretty fast car considering it's a 4 cylinder. I've been on the track, and agree that GT5 can't provide that same experience. However, it can provide you with a very entertaining virtual driving experience. Surely and all things considered, GT5 does a great job of satisfying my need to race without braking the bank.

The point of the post, with the right set up, i.e. Playseat and G27, you can have a very nice simulated experience versus it being a called a video game like NFS. Simply put GT5 offers a great opportunity to experience different cars and tracks, at the same time provides a decent play experience. Again, set up is most important to get the most out of the game.

Anyway, good times and thx for the input! See you at carnival!!
 
Since most people think car+game=dirt/grid/NFS/ridge racer/ other crap arcade then I'd agree with OP.
 
in hindsight lets get this straight..This is can be a video game and a simulator....

If you are using a Dual Shock 3 controller-This is a video game(and i feel sorry for you)

If you are using a DFGT,G25,G27,T500-This is a driving simulator...

simple as that.....I kinda sounds like all the poeple who argue that GT5 is just a video game are using DualShock3 controllers.(once again i feel very sorry for you).(get a wheel and you'll quickly change your mind)....
 
Blaze_409
in hindsight lets get this straight..This is can be a video game and a simulator....

If you are using a Dual Shock 3 controller-This is a video game(and i feel sorry for you)

If you are using a DFGT,G25,G27,T500-This is a driving simulator...

simple as that.....I kinda sounds like all the poeple who argue that GT5 is just a video game are using DualShock3 controllers.(once again i feel very sorry for you).(get a wheel and you'll quickly change your mind)....
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Nope, I fell sorry, for you...
 
Rods_Ramone
Nope, I fell sorry, for you...
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do you have a wheel.....

please do get a G27 or a T500 and come back here and tell me if you still feel the same....

this game is a snore with a dual shock 3 controller.

No one said it's the prima donnna of race sims.....Iracing is alot more accurate but they are both driving simulators
 
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Blaze_409
in hindsight lets get this straight..This is can be a video game and a simulator....

If you are using a Dual Shock 3 controller-This is a video game(and i feel sorry for you)

If you are using a DFGT,G25,G27,T500-This is a driving simulator...

simple as that.....I kinda sounds like all the poeple who argue that GT5 is just a video game are using DualShock3 controllers.(once again i feel very sorry for you).(get a wheel and you'll quickly change your mind)....
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Here here!! I couldn't agree more!
 
It is a video game. I've trained in a real full cockpit, full motion, multi-million dollar SIMULATOR. If you screwed up in the simulator (hit a power line, mother terra, another aircraft), the wrap-around screens turned red and flashed "FATAL ERROR" and the machine shut down and you received an a$$ chewing. GT5 is a video game albeit a fun one with good graphics, it is still a video game.
 
TurboProp
It is a video game. I've trained in a real full cockpit, full motion, multi-million dollar SIMULATOR. If you screwed up in the simulator (hit a power line, mother terra, another aircraft), the wrap-around screens turned red and flashed "FATAL ERROR" and the machine shut down and you received an a$$ chewing. GT5 is a video game albeit a fun one with good graphics, it is still a video game.
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do you have a wheel?(g25,g27,T500).

Sure it's not Iracing. but its still a cheaper simulator. you get what you pay for.....
 
Blaze_409
do you have a wheel?(g25,g27,T500).

Sure it's not Iracing. but its still a cheaper simulator. you get what you pay for.....
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Do you have full motion, wrap-around screens and any penalty for hitting the wall at 100 mph plus? Well, I guess you get what you pay for...Video Game
 
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