W.M.A. International Touring Car Championship-Season Wrap-Up!

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How much horsepower should cars have?

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  • 240

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  • 250

    Votes: 6 11.5%

  • 260

    Votes: 8 15.4%

  • 270

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Don't get me wrong Johnny, I like that style of thinking. I just figured some wouldn't appreciate the tactics, or maybe say a limit of at least 10-20% limit of race each side, especially as I'm sure that RWD cars have a huge advantage of FF cars in the tyre wear respect.

Although, what with the chances of a collision a pit could help / hinder (chance of getting lapped). Either way it's just an idea for people to at least consider.

Now do I consider dropping the RX-7 for the RX-8, hmmm.

Sakery, I wish I had a replay of race 1 as that perfectly demonstrates how not to do rolling start, including my "wth are you guys next to me do... POWER!"
 
NizmoDr3
Just out of curiosity ... why are we not running with rear spoilers?
Is it because of unfair advantages or just because the vehicles look so much better without them.
Just something I was thinking of last night ...:sly:
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I don't think any of the cars on the list get front downforce but adding rear downforce to any street car under 600 pp is unnecessary. There is so much grip on RS tires a spoiler is completely unnecessary and adding rear grip will only cause you understeer,more front tire wear, and speed on the straights.
 
anirishnirvana
Don't get me wrong Johnny, I like that style of thinking. I just figured some wouldn't appreciate the tactics, or maybe say a limit of at least 10-20% limit of race each side, especially as I'm sure that RWD cars have a huge advantage of FF cars in the tyre wear respect.

Although, what with the chances of a collision a pit could help / hinder (chance of getting lapped). Either way it's just an idea for people to at least consider.

Now do I consider dropping the RX-7 for the RX-8, hmmm.

Sakery, I wish I had a replay of race 1 as that perfectly demonstrates how not to do rolling start, including my "wth are you guys next to me do... POWER!"
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There are slight differences between the cars when it comes to tire wear, but I also tested out the FTO GP-R, a standard FF car and a Civic Type R, a premium FF car, and had no trouble getting both past 12 laps with 25% rubber remaining on RS tires and that was with only a minimum of tuning. On all cars, on all tracks, tire wear is as much a function of how you drive as anything else. Once you tune for balance, the rest is dependent mostly on your left foot and your left and right hands...lol.:sly:

The RX-8 has good tire wear, but it's also the heaviest and most underpowered of any car in Saturday's race which is why I chose it. I was down 10 km/h on the straights and barely able to keep up with the Civics in the draft and couldn't get past anyone on the straight. It's advantage is in cornering but it's tough to pass between corners with only 256 hp and being 100+ kilos heavier. So there is a trade off here between straight line speed and cornering, and tire wear.
 
So whats the target times for Tsukuba???
 
Ok, that's cool just could have sworn some had too much tyre wear. Well as long as people don't do Massa's at Canada or others who tried an early 1 stop (Vettel, Alonso) rather than conventional (Perez, Raikonnen). Of course that race was "slightly" longer.

Yeah, I noticed norm wasn't leaving slipstream along the straight at times. However, my RX-7 was there as well (although first race I started at 236/1200 after Thursday showed 256/1150 made the RX-7 too good). Also, practically all my passes were at corners as well (hence why I had a good performance at Monaco before disconnecting. CURSE YOU STORM!)
 
NizmoDr3
So whats the target times for Tsukuba???
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I ran a 58.2 yesterday with the same setup as grand valley east. I was in fourth gear at the fastest point on the track. Left front tire wear is pretty bad. I feel like I can get another second off if I practice braking points and line. I don't think much adjusting is needed from grand valley besides the tranny.
 
test room 1472 6399 8880 6893 5482
 
I dont think tire wear would be as big as an issue for this series. I think the most we run is 15 laps? Plus the mandatory pit. But still, if you have tires that last longer than the next guy you can run that much harder.

Thats why I suggested a pit window. Maybe laps 7-8?
 
I significantly doubt that the tires are the main reason for any problems. The idea, is that people make it to about halfway on the softs, and switch to mediums.


But, Johnny & Zack both ran 1:06s... Zack; on mediums.


THAT, is what I think most of us should look at... I won't even restrict this information just to stewards. Everyone, if you saved the Race 1 replay, please check out Zack's stint on mediums. I didn't see the lap that these two ran, but, 1:06s seem a bit fast, especially for mediums.


Also, my best time so far at Tsukuba is about 58.9, so I think that the fastest laps might be around 58.7, considering that I was a little off qualifying pace (4 tenths) at Grand Valley East Reverse.


Finally, the start procedure is discussed in this thread: Drivers' Meetings in the second post.
 
Hi guys, zack is unable to attend the race on saturday due to a very busy schedule.....however, i will be taking the step up to competition racing for a one off meeting.

BanditRacing.
 
What car was he running? I think people may see the minimum weight in the room and take advantage of it. Weight checks before the races should be done IMO.
 
Well, if you're not running either of the Spoon cars, and Storm's not running the Lotus...

And, the two 1:06s were an RX-8 on softs, and a Civic Type R '08 on mediums.
 
MrMelancholy15
Well, if you're not running either of the Spoon cars, and Storm's not running the Lotus...

And, the two 1:06s were an RX-8 on softs, and a Civic Type R '08 on mediums.
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Civic r on meds 1:06....ppppssssshhhhhhh my you-know-what!!!
 
The times could be from the draft as well, but I think someone was cheating the weights, or they just got more from the car somehow.
 
1100kg was the weight i was running, isnt that the lowest you can get on the civic? and its untuned
 
It has to be tuned if you ran @those specs. You're saying you didn't change any settings on your suspension, correct?
 
That's not the lowest weight. The lowest is 1092.

Anyways, it's besides the point, whether it's tuned or not. I'm reviewing the footage again shortly. I understand that the car can get up to 230-240 km/h in draft, and I'm thinking that it is technically possible, but, I'm also curious about your racing lines and such.
 
want me to send you the car tomorrow to prove that there has been ive not had 3rd stage weight saving thingy? (sent jamie-racing a trophy clio today so he can race with me and diddy)


and no setup changes at all just set transmission to 143mph.
 
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me and k1m dont set the cars up they were bog standard, but made to a weight that was just above the lowest it can be and we changed our transmision, we use the civic as it runs fast without any setup apart from transmision and we cba with doing setup

the wieght is 1102 i think, thats the closest we can get to the civic weight limit without going under and needing to put balast on
 
So, THAT'S why you guys didn't like the Volvo. The Volvo's softened up quite a bit as stock.
 
MrMelancholy15
I significantly doubt that the tires are the main reason for any problems. The idea, is that people make it to about halfway on the softs, and switch to mediums.

But, Johnny & Zack both ran 1:06s... Zack; on mediums.

THAT, is what I think most of us should look at... I won't even restrict this information just to stewards. Everyone, if you saved the Race 1 replay, please check out Zack's stint on mediums. I didn't see the lap that these two ran, but, 1:06s seem a bit fast, especially for mediums.

Also, my best time so far at Tsukuba is about 58.9, so I think that the fastest laps might be around 58.7, considering that I was a little off qualifying pace (4 tenths) at Grand Valley East Reverse.


Finally, the start procedure is discussed in this thread: Drivers' Meetings in the second post.
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I could not do a 1:06 without the draft at GVE, but I think I had a draft assisted 1:06.750 or thereabouts. Even with full draft all the way down the straight I could not pass the Civic on the front straight, but if I was a few car lengths back, I could make up much of the gap in the first corner alone. I had another car I could run 1:06.1 with alone and could get 9 laps in under 1:07, but chose not to run it:sly: On the RM's I was a full second or more slower, and I was wondering how anyone could run that fast on RM's but it's entirely possible if you were able to draft a car in front most of the way around. You'd lose a bit in the corners and make it up on the straights. My car barely crested 220km/h on the straights without the draft, handling was it's forte' for sure. The Civics I know for sure could hit 230+ km/h on the straights.

And, I've already tested 3 cars and all were 58.0-58.2 at Tsukuba plus my RX-8 with the same suspension and only the transmission adapted. Two of them were FF's that didn't run at GVE. Tsukuba is one of my tuning test tracks so I know all it's little subtleties quite well:idea:

racingzack
want me to send you the car tomorrow to prove that there has been ive not had 3rd stage weight saving thingy? (sent jamie-racing a trophy clio today so he can race with me and diddy)


and no setup changes at all just set transmission to 143mph.
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Not saying you're being deceptive but sending the car won't prove anything. You could have changed all the settings right after the race or have a completely different car. Just sayin'

One way to solve the weight and HP issue is to change the weights and HP regs and then call certain cars to the track. You have to start at the low end of HP and work up, and the high end of weight and work down. So you might call the RX-8's first at 256 HP and 1250 kgs (or 1200 can't remember), then add HP or decrease weight and call the next cars. I've seen it done with 3 cars in a series before but not with the variety we have here. It also means that once a car is on the track it cannot leave so it leaves the question open a bit as to what to do with disconnects. If we assume most people are honest, you can just let the disconnects come back in.
 
I think thats what were going to have to do. Not trying to accuse anyone. Just another way to get rid of any doubts others may have.
 
This week especially, we will be running full specification checks. The schedule for this week will be relaxed, as the Rolex series has just finished.
 
Johnnypenso
I could not do a 1:06 without the draft at GVE, but I think I had a draft assisted 1:06.750 or thereabouts. Even with full draft all the way down the straight I could not pass the Civic on the front straight, but if I was a few car lengths back, I could make up much of the gap in the first corner alone. I had another car I could run 1:06.1 with alone and could get 9 laps in under 1:07, but chose not to run it:sly: On the RM's I was a full second or more slower, and I was wondering how anyone could run that fast on RM's but it's entirely possible if you were able to draft a car in front most of the way around. You'd lose a bit in the corners and make it up on the straights. My car barely crested 220km/h on the straights without the draft, handling was it's forte' for sure. The Civics I know for sure could hit 230+ km/h on the straights.

And, I've already tested 3 cars and all were 58.0-58.2 at Tsukuba plus my RX-8 with the same suspension and only the transmission adapted. Two of them were FF's that didn't run at GVE. Tsukuba is one of my tuning test tracks so I know all it's little subtleties quite well:idea:



Not saying you're being deceptive but sending the car won't prove anything. You could have changed all the settings right after the race or have a completely different car. Just sayin'

One way to solve the weight and HP issue is to change the weights and HP regs and then call certain cars to the track. You have to start at the low end of HP and work up, and the high end of weight and work down. So you might call the RX-8's first at 256 HP and 1250 kgs (or 1200 can't remember), then add HP or decrease weight and call the next cars. I've seen it done with 3 cars in a series before but not with the variety we have here. It also means that once a car is on the track it cannot leave so it leaves the question open a bit as to what to do with disconnects. If we assume most people are honest, you can just let the disconnects come back in.
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We are running the chicane so lap times are hovering around 1.01 flat. My focus could run 58.2 without the chicane. I am trying to break the 1.01 mark with the chicane.
 
cnd01
We are running the chicane so lap times are hovering around 1.01 flat. My focus could run 58.2 without the chicane. I am trying to break the 1.01 mark with the chicane.
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It's such a simple thing, I don't know why PD didn't get permission from Tsukuba to put up some cones and have the chicane version of Tsukuba as a different track altogether, like Monza with and without the chicane. Should be fun:dopey:
 
Johnnypenso
It's such a simple thing, I don't know why PD didn't get permission from Tsukuba to put up some cones and have the chicane version of Tsukuba as a different track altogether, like Monza with and without the chicane. Should be fun:dopey:
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There is a lot of road work on the bypass around my city. I will steal some caution cones and get on it.:dopey: :lol:
 
cnd01
There is a lot of road work on the bypass around my city. I will steal some caution cones and get on it.:dopey: :lol:
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:lol: Epic idea! Passing cones through dimensions... sounds intriguing.


Indeed, I can validate that 1:01 is the ideal time, but, don't fret if you're running high 1:00s or low 1:02s. The draft will make sure that we're all at a good, equal pace.
 
Have yet to run here with any car on this list, so I can't comment on times. But Tsukuba is easy.
 
Well, do post your times at some point, I'm sure they'll be where the performance "bar" is, and that you'll be the one setting the pace for the weekend; not necessarily the fastest, but, the one who knows most, what times to expect.
 
Well there goes last nights testing ... Back to square one ... Lol
I'm looking forward to this weekend. I felt that the last round was a good learning point for me (being my first online sanctioned race and all).:scared:
I'll take what I've learnt into this weekend.👍
 
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