We are very hard on PoDi

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amar212
maybe you - and other that thinks like you - actually have no idea about what polyphony actually want gt series to be. So, you decided to deny what gt series basically is and what it tries to do for 15 consecutive years and instead you built your own personal and subjective mental image about what would you want for gt to be and what and how it should deliver - and your personal and subjective dissapointment is inevitable.

I sincerely think that many should try to understand what pd actually does with gt series since the first game and what are the reasons why gt series is like it is. Trying to comprehend everything regarding gt development and design philosophy from personal and subjective perspective tied with experiences of some other games from the genre is a straight path to missunderstanding and completely wrong expectations.

Imo, of course.
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+100000
 
amar212
Maybe you - and other that thinks like you - actually have NO IDEA about what Polyphony actually want GT series to be. So, you decided to deny what GT series basically IS and what it TRIES to do for 15 consecutive years and instead you built your own personal and subjective mental image about what would YOU want for GT to be and what and how it should deliver - and your personal and subjective dissapointment is inevitable.

I sincerely think that many should try to understand what PD actually does with GT series since the first game and what are the reasons why GT series is like it is. Trying to comprehend everything regarding GT development and design philosophy from personal and subjective perspective tied with experiences of some other games from the genre is a straight path to missunderstanding and completely wrong expectations.

IMO, of course.
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That´s the thing..."15 years trying"...I started to play GT at the age of 13 back in 1997/98.
I never complained about any of them until GT5. I don´t think it was my fault...as other people stated...if they can develop their idea or "Kaz´s idea"...take the time and do it as they did or "tried to do" with GT5.

Why release GT6 now if the game is not finished yet? Plain and simple...money. The console generation change has something to do as well since they need to make more money to develop the next game as well.

Some people always talk about "passion", "ideas", etc...trying to compensate for real why PD "is failing", and now with the funny subject of saying "you expect too much so you get disappointed", or "our ideas of what the game should be are wrong".

Well I prefer to say that I want that PD make the best game ever and crush the competition, and make us all happy.

If we complain about something is just because it was made wrong and we can´t deny it, and make excuses out of it.
PD needs to organize their development and ideas, then give us a refined product as they used to do in the past.


I understand what PD is trying to do...hope I won´t be too old to see it...or what is even worse...Kaz get too old to see it.

GT6 will be a good game...my hopes for a refined version will be GT7 in the PS4 having in mind that it won´t have hardware limitations as it has now. Hope that PD won´t find limitations in it and deliver what they are "trying" to do. ;)
 
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amar212
Maybe you - and other that thinks like you - actually have NO IDEA about what Polyphony actually want GT series to be.
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What Polyphony want/intend is irrelevant. What matters is the reality -

*A divide in car quality
*A divide in car sound
*Large day one patches
*Sound to be updated by patch (possibly)
*A greatly reduced course editor/maker (& quite possibly late)


Is this what Polyphony want for the series? I'd hope not. It seems to be more a result of the constant "biting of more than you can chew" philosophy that Polyphony adheres to. While I do appreciate it (who knows how GT4 would have turned out otherwise), clearly, as evidenced above, it seems a different approach might prove beneficial.
 
I skimmed through a translation of the quoted material in the topic post and it sounds like people trying to make excuses for PD. I didn't read every single reply (probably less than a quarter of them) but did see one touching on something I want to underscore.

There were numbers thrown around, mentioning how Turn 10 have far more people working on Forza than PD have for GT. This was presented as an excuse for PD to accomplish less. The important fact left out there, but that I saw raised in a reply and that I wanted to highlight upon initially reading the topic rant, is that PD has no excuse for utilizing a smaller work force.

You know how GT fans are proud of how well GT games sell? More sales mean more revenue which means more money for more game development. If Turn 10 can use three times the labor to produce a game that sells half as well, then PD can't argue that they cannot employ more game developers. They should be able to spend twice as much as Turn 10 does, not a third; 200%, not 33%.

"But Turn 10 sells more games! Each sells less but more frequently!" Yes, but PD can do the same. There's nothing stopping them from hiring 200 more people so that they can produce better products in less time. They could sell a better game every two or three years rather than a lesser game every four or more years.

At the end of the day, all that matters is what you accomplished. It doesn't matter what your excuses are for lackluster results. If you offer me a hamburger that's covered with lint, twigs, and dead ants, explaining that it accidentally fell to the ground thirty seconds ago doesn't change that I still don't want to eat it. If I pay a mechanic to repair my car and it is returned to me partially disassembled, him explaining to me how he doesn't actually know much about cars doesn't make me happy with him taking it apart and then giving up on it. Excuses don't make things okay, and they don't make a lesser product count as an extraordinary one.
 
After GT5's pitiful release, we ought to be hard on PD. I hope someone from PD or Sony browse these forums and see what we've written, both good and bad. They should see it all. They should digest it all. They should feel disappointed and inspired, but not satisfied. Nope, no satisfaction.

If GT6 can deliver on day one, then I think the majority of gamers will ease up and loosen the chain around PD. I imagine most people want to see GT6 succeed and be the great Gran Turismo title we were expecting in GT5...it seems they've at least begun to take some of our concerns to heart. That's a start.
 
The_Rpg_Moogle
Samus, I usually agree with you, but as a DJ and Producer I have to completely disagree. Many sounds do compress better than others, considering different frequencies they tend to emphasize...
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Compression doesn't make a V8 sound like the "generic racecar sample", a V12 sound like a V10 etc. I believe this is what he is referring to. They just tend to do a sloppy job when choosing which sample goes to which car.
 
Cosbuster
Compression doesn't make a V8 sound like the "generic racecar sample", a V12 sound like a V10 etc. I believe this is what he is referring to. They just tend to do a sloppy job when choosing which sample goes to which car.
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I don't think that's what anyone was referring to. That's just a stuff up, plain and simple. Nothing to do with compression there.

But when you have the right sound, Moogle is correct in that some sounds will compress better than others. It's the same as some pictures compress to JPG better than others, given the same resolution. It's just a feature of how compression works.
 
amar212
Maybe you - and other that thinks like you - actually have NO IDEA about what Polyphony actually want GT series to be. So, you decided to deny what GT series basically IS and what it TRIES to do for 15 consecutive years and instead you built your own personal and subjective mental image about what would YOU want for GT to be and what and how it should deliver - and your personal and subjective dissapointment is inevitable.
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Trying to comprehend everything regarding GT development and design philosophy from personal and subjective perspective tied with experiences of some other games from the genre is a straight path to missunderstanding and completely wrong expectations.
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I can absolutely appreciate what they're doing, or trying to. I like the concept (although, I'm unsure if I know what it is anymore) of GT and what got me hooked in the first place. But when you, for instance, fail to deliver after 15 or so years in a particular and an objectively important area where previous games has been seriously lacking, an inevitable dissapointment is to be expected for many and should really not be considered as part of ''wrong'' expectations when it basically is an industry standard today. For me personally, it's an absolutely vital part of the driving/racing experience and after 15 years in the business, it's just simply inexcusable not being able to deliver on that front. Or at least I can no longer find any excuses, if you'd like to put it that way.

On top of that, the successor of the inconsistent and unfinished mess of a game with a hefty development time - that GT5 was - appears to be partly following the same path of its predecessor.

Whatever they want the GT series to be or aiming for, it's all over the place at the moment.
 
They are just too busy with icing on the cake (huge portion of japanese car variants, concepts, trailers, photomode, museums, car wash etc.) while the bottom of the cake (whole game system, some parts of simulation, ffb, engine sounds, invisible walls, damage) is just old and rotten.
 
IceMan PJN
I skimmed through a translation of the quoted material in the topic post and it sounds like people trying to make excuses for PD. I didn't read every single reply (probably less than a quarter of them) but did see one touching on something I want to underscore.

There were numbers thrown around, mentioning how Turn 10 have far more people working on Forza than PD have for GT. This was presented as an excuse for PD to accomplish less. The important fact left out there, but that I saw raised in a reply and that I wanted to highlight upon initially reading the topic rant, is that PD has no excuse for utilizing a smaller work force.

You know how GT fans are proud of how well GT games sell? More sales mean more revenue which means more money for more game development. If Turn 10 can use three times the labor to produce a game that sells half as well, then PD can't argue that they cannot employ more game developers. They should be able to spend twice as much as Turn 10 does, not a third; 200%, not 33%.

"But Turn 10 sells more games! Each sells less but more frequently!" Yes, but PD can do the same. There's nothing stopping them from hiring 200 more people so that they can produce better products in less time. They could sell a better game every two or three years rather than a lesser game every four or more years.

At the end of the day, all that matters is what you accomplished. It doesn't matter what your excuses are for lackluster results. If you offer me a hamburger that's covered with lint, twigs, and dead ants, explaining that it accidentally fell to the ground thirty seconds ago doesn't change that I still don't want to eat it. If I pay a mechanic to repair my car and it is returned to me partially disassembled, him explaining to me how he doesn't actually know much about cars doesn't make me happy with him taking it apart and then giving up on it. Excuses don't make things okay, and they don't make a lesser product count as an extraordinary one.
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💡 looks at GT's sales... and the fact that most people will buy six regardless * i mean look at how many people bought GTA v after four.. four was two steps back from the series..
 
Apples to oranges, to violent not-racing games.


And, I'm buying GT6 because it's going to be awesome with the new physics engine. I'm not very hard on PD.
 
CorvetteConquer
After GT5's pitiful release, we ought to be hard on PD. I hope someone from PD or Sony browse these forums and see what we've written, both good and bad. They should see it all. They should digest it all. They should feel disappointed and inspired, but not satisfied. Nope, no satisfaction. If GT6 can deliver on day one, then I think the majority of gamers will ease up and loosen the chain around PD. I imagine most people want to see GT6 succeed and be the great Gran Turismo title we were expecting in GT5...it seems they've at least begun to take some of our concerns to heart. That's a start.
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Hahaha you've been on a RAMPAGE!! Keep em coming. Is your goal to make a better GT6? If so keep up the fight.
 
Zlork
:)

My friend (journalist) visited PoDi after TGS 2010. He provided some answers on how PoDi work.

Yes, sound has always been problematic because of the RAM, I confirm.

And, I would like to clarify about day one patch : in the future, there will probably new things to come via patches, I especially wanted to say that players without internet will have content (new physic, 1200+ cars, 37 tracks, customization, game mode, etc). They will a "finished game", they will not same feeling as when GT5 is release 👍
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I don't buy the whole sound thing. Every other game manages to get it right. Recording the wrong car or copying and pasting sound files from one car to the other has nothing to do with RAM...

If it's an issue of the number of cars, they could do away with half of them anyway instead of carrying low quality (insignificant) car models across between games.

That said I'm pretty impressed with the new physics model (based on the demo) so let's hope they come good on the promise of updated sound not long after release
 
CarreraGT
That said I'm pretty impressed with the new physics model (based on the demo) so let's hope they come good on the promise of updated sound not long after release
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I'm not, because it still looks like "impression" engine than "physics" engine from some gamescom videos. Car is apparently glued to the ground with some minimal suspension travel and airborne jump is completely wrong, because car has some "paper weight" physics. I am curious what will the cars do in new physics on Eiger Nordwand or Cape Ring jumps. And that's only suspension. Further things like whole drivetrain physics like clutch, differentials, tyres, engine stalling, transmissions, automatic transmissions etc. are now acting like 0/1 computer mess, not some sophisticated physics.
 
amar212
Maybe you - and other that thinks like you - actually have NO IDEA about what Polyphony actually want GT series to be. So, you decided to deny what GT series basically IS and what it TRIES to do for 15 consecutive years and instead you built your own personal and subjective mental image about what would YOU want for GT to be and what and how it should deliver - and your personal and subjective dissapointment is inevitable.

I sincerely think that many should try to understand what PD actually does with GT series since the first game and what are the reasons why GT series is like it is. Trying to comprehend everything regarding GT development and design philosophy from personal and subjective perspective tied with experiences of some other games from the genre is a straight path to missunderstanding and completely wrong expectations.

IMO, of course.
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I must've missed this earlier, a well thought-out post as always Amar, but I have a few issues with it. I don't think what PD is trying to do is especially hard for gamers to see - especially auto enthusiast gamers - and the idea that the game shouldn't be judged based on a user's demands/expectations, but the producer's vision/goal/what-have-you, can easily be used as a cop-out to be applied to every game, not just GT. Don't like Forza? That's just your personal expectations clouding your view. Don't like Call Of Duty? Same thing. Heck, it could even extend to movies - like Transformers, for example - and I think many of us can agree on one important thing: Michael Bay still sucks. :P

Actually, come to think of it, that whole way of looking at the subject is very Dude-like:

tumblr_llgaeahjah1qiyqyfo1_500.gif


And I think a lot of the frustration we see these days can almost be derived from the confusion PD themselves seem to have with the direction of the series. Look at Kaz' "maybe, it's possible" responses to a lot of questions - livery editor being just one example - and it's not hard to realize where some people might be getting the kernel to start building expectations. As the essential PR guy for the company, Kaz is an expectations-manager, and while his passion for the subject matter quite clearly shines through in person, obviously that won't be available to the vast majority of players.

Finally, if people are having the wrong expectations... what are the right ones? :)
 
Are PD or Kaz making GT to cater for some of the GTP members demands and expectations ? or to cater for the other millions of people would be buyer of the game who doesn't really have the same demands or expectations as very few of the hardcore buyers ? I think PD's real concern is overall sales number and how well perceived GT is to the world. Regardless of our expectations, Kaz is making his own vision, his own goal, and if he sees that his work sells good and do well, I'm afraid what we are expecting are nothing but a dream - we never knew when it will come true :(

As for me, I'll just keep on buying GT and enjoy what I can :) It's cheap anyway, considering how much entertainment and fun I would get in the next few years of playing it. Well worth it, just like my all game collection from the past 20 years or so.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
Are PD or Kaz making GT to cater for some of the GTP members demands and expectations ? or to cater for the other millions of people would be buyer of the game who doesn't really have the same demands or expectations as very few of the hardcore buyers ? I think PD's real concern is overall sales number and how well perceived GT is to the world. Regardless of our expectations, Kaz is making his own vision, his own goal, and if he sees that his work sells good and do well, I'm afraid what we are expecting are nothing but a dream - we never knew when it will come true :(

As for me, I'll just keep on buying GT and enjoy what I can :) It's cheap anyway, considering how much entertainment and fun I would get in the next few years of playing it. Well worth it, just like my all game collection from the past 20 years or so.
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Well said Ridox. 👍 I too, will keep on buying GT games because I just adore it so much. I may not play GT5 as often as I used to, but that's because it doesn't feel like a GT game, and GT6 does. But overall, I'll no matter what stick with the series as well keep on buying other games.

This can pretty much be said to the COD fans, Mario fans and so on, even GTA from what I heard sold $800 billion. Now THAT'S a lot of fans who love that game and will continue to buy it. I say Kaz should focus on the millions out there, not just GTP which seems to demand a lot (hardcores)? ;)
 
SlipZtrEm
I must've missed this earlier, a well thought-out post as always Amar, but I have a few issues with it. I don't think what PD is trying to do is especially hard for gamers to see - especially auto enthusiast gamers - and the idea that the game shouldn't be judged based on a user's demands/expectations, but the producer's vision/goal/what-have-you, can easily be used as a cop-out to be applied to every game, not just GT. Don't like Forza? That's just your personal expectations clouding your view. Don't like Call Of Duty? Same thing. Heck, it could even extend to movies - like Transformers, for example - and I think many of us can agree on one important thing: Michael Bay still sucks. :P

Actually, come to think of it, that whole way of looking at the subject is very Dude-like:

http://static.tumblr.com/v4vvd40/m75lmpfhe/tumblr_llgaeahjah1qiyqyfo1_500.gif
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Isn't that just part of being an adult; realising that different people like different things? I mean, sure, I'd rather publishers catered to my needs more than they do, but that doesn't mean I should expect games that weren't made with me in mind to actually cater to my requirements.

I'm sure Michael Bay is very good at catering to a specific audience; in that sense, he most definitely does not suck. It depends on your requirements.
SlipZtrEm
And I think a lot of the frustration we see these days can almost be derived from the confusion PD themselves seem to have with the direction of the series. Look at Kaz' "maybe, it's possible" responses to a lot of questions - livery editor being just one example - and it's not hard to realize where some people might be getting the kernel to start building expectations. As the essential PR guy for the company, Kaz is an expectations-manager, and while his passion for the subject matter quite clearly shines through in person, obviously that won't be available to the vast majority of players.

Finally, if people are having the wrong expectations... what are the right ones? :)
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The right expectations are the ones that don't lead to disappointment. What controls your disappointment? Your expectations.
Sure, other people have a social responsibility not to lead you on or con you etc., but in the end it's your brain.

If people require a "full", PR-nothingness-filled exposition of how a game is going to affect your life before it's even available, then I can respect that PD are under-delivering. But maybe you ought to find that kind of thing somewhere else; I mean, there's no point expecting nuance from Michael Bay, is there? :)

EDIT: the irony is that other games' treatment of pre-release fervour has created this expectation amongst gamers that that is what is normal; what is their right to have. Never mind that it's designed purely to maximise sales, although there is obviously a benefit to the game if feedback is incorporated. So, who is responsible for that expectation?
 
Honestly it seems everyone under estimating Gran Turismo Series now.. I mean the reason GT5 took so long was because hardware.. I mean... GT6 took alot less time. Kaz and his team are pushing the limits of the PS3. I mean have any of your tried the Release Build? No... All of you are assuming GT6 will be horse**** because of the news about engine sounds and course maker.. I mean seriously.. Even couple people said its GT5.5.. I'm sorry but I'm unsubscribing.. All this assumption and saying GT and PD are bad...

Bear with me I typed this with my phone...
...
 
TheKitten
Honestly it seems everyone under estimating Gran Turismo Series now.. I mean the reason GT5 took so long was because hardware.. I mean... GT6 took alot less time. Kaz and his team are pushing the limits of the PS3. I mean have any of your tried the Release Build? No... All of you are assuming GT6 will be horse**** because of the news about engine sounds and course maker.. I mean seriously.. Even couple people said its GT5.5.. I'm sorry but I'm unsubscribing.. All this assumption and saying GT and PD are bad...

Bear with me I typed this with my phone...
...
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It's not just about the sounds and course maker. There's been little to no news on AI, customisation features despite Kaz's claims there will be more, how A-Spec will work, no word on whether or not there will actually be a livery editor etc. Couple that to the return of standard cars and you can see why people are frustrated, especially with the next console generation approaching fast.
 
I don't know why it's so hard for other people to understand that some of us need more than what PD have told us and the GT name to buy the game. You might be happy to pre-order a game you know next to nothing about, not all of us are. That's where the frustration comes in, because PD are telling us squat to change our minds. The biggest news we've had the last few weeks are both disappointments, things that won't be in the game. Not exactly likely to sway us into purchasing is it.

As I say, I don't know how you can't see why people would be frustrated at this point.
 
I don't know why anyone needs to pre-order it at all. If you're undecided, why not wait to find out what it's like before "investing" so emotionally in it in the first place?

Most people will buy it because there's a 6 instead of a 5; at least, it works for Apple.
All the information anyone could want will be available in due course if you really want to make an educated decision.
 
If everyone was patient and understanding and held back their frustrations, this entire forum would be Ten D and Toko confessing their love to each other about Kaz and all things PD and nothing else. What fun would that be? Who would the fanboys have around to try and convince us of the Godly vision that all GT games are, even the forthcoming version they know very little about? :sly::cheers:
 
Griffith500
If you're undecided, why not wait to find out what it's like before "investing" so emotionally in it in the first place?
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I think people who have been playing GT for 15 years are already invested emotionally. That's sort of the problem. You played a game, you loved it, you grew up with it, and so naturally you have feelings about the next installment.

Were people who loved Star Wars wrong for having feelings about Episode 1 before it was released? Maybe, but it's not like it was a choice. If you loved the original films, you had an opinion on new ones being made.

This is not a totally new game that we choose whether to get interested or not. We're in. Have been for years.
 
That's fine, and I'm not going to belittle anyone's raison d'être, but what's the difference between knowing about the game now, or next month?

Wouldn't we all rather be playing it right now? Why isn't anyone complaining about that?
 
Griffith500
That's fine, and I'm not going to belittle anyone's raison d'être, but what's the difference between knowing about the game now, or next month?

Wouldn't we all rather be playing it right now? Why isn't anyone complaining about that?
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There is a difference.

Those who think positively have less of a desire for new information. Of course they'd enjoy knowing more, but the belief that it will all turn out alright is there, so it's relatively easy to be patient.

Those who think negatively are the ones with the most desire for new information. I want them to release some information that makes me believe that there's something worth being excited about still there.

Maybe I should just give up and go away. Maybe I forget all about GT, and I come back in a year or two or five, and remember how it was that game that I used to have fun with. Maybe I never get around to buying another GT again, because I just don't care any more.

Maybe I'm the only person who does that, maybe not.
 
There can be no doubt. GT6 will be GT5.5. As a matter of course. It took 4ever to develope GT5, it was never finished, it really is a prototype game, panically set to production status.

GT6 is the finally developed GT5. And it has already been delayed lol. A few months ago they announced the release to be september... Now it`s changed to december instead.

Anyway GT5 is indeed very cheaply prized, and is lots of fun for this prize, guess GT6 (GT5.5) will be just as funny and cheap.

Lets see if the online servers works better this time, but I can see no reason why they should. As a matter off course, it will be the same servers, these has nothing to do with which disc U throw into U´r PS3. Hope I`m wrong about this, though...
 

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