We Want A Remake

[niky]

It's funny, GT1 though GT3 could probably fit on one PS2 disk.

That has to be the most encouraging post in this whole thread. I hope someone at PD is listening!

Imagine a GT-Gold edition bundled with the PS3: Two Memory Cards and so many versions of GT, it'll make you sick.

 

[amp88]

One Blu-Ray disc = 50GB = Enough for about 20 average PS2 games.

 

[T5-R]

One Blu-Ray disc = 50GB = Enough for about 20 average PS2 games.

With that much space you might even be able to fit on the hundreds of different GT4 promo discs!

 

[Uncle Harry]

Why not upgrade the graphics for GT1 and GT2 to PS@ standards, put them on one disc, and market the game as GT Classics for PS2 and leave it at that.
Both games feature a less demanding learning curve than GT4 and would appeal to more younger players than GT4 does.
Most young kids love the graphics of GT4 but find the challange way too hard.
By upgrading GT1 and 2 PD would provide the younger and new players with good graphics and a lot easier introduction into GT racing.

 

[Gabkicks]

My god people... GT4 has incredibly easy controls. more responsive than any of the other ones in the gt series with better graphics and more cars. GT4 is the upgraded version of gt1,2, and 3.

the learning curve for gt4 is not steep at all. Its easy, too easy. some people even consider gt4 and arcade game.

 

[Uncle Harry]

My son and his friends (aged around 13) wont play GT4 as it is too hard.
By comparison he and his freinds all enjoyed GT1 as it was a lot easier to learn.
I think the unrealistic braking distances in the early games made it easier for the kids to master.
GT2 had 600 cars which is enough for most tastes. Also the racing mods available in GT1 & 2 appealed to the kids because they like to change the appearence of the cars they drive.
80 license tests in GT4 is also a little to much for kids wanting a quick speed fix.

 

[niky]

My son and his friends (aged around 13) wont play GT4 as it is too hard.
By comparison he and his freinds all enjoyed GT1 as it was a lot easier to learn.
I think the unrealistic braking distances in the early games made it easier for the kids to master.
GT2 had 600 cars which is enough for most tastes. Also the racing mods available in GT1 & 2 appealed to the kids because they like to change the appearence of the cars they drive.
80 license tests in GT4 is also a little to much for kids wanting a quick speed fix.

-is often how it feels like jumping through some of the hoops GT makes you go through... what more if you're a teen with the attention span of a goldfish?

I agree, GT-Classics is the way to go... or another GT3, separate arcade and simulation discs, bundled as a package, but with radically different engines. Maybe the GT1 and 2 engine in the arcade disc, and the latest one in the sim disc.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Uncle Harry your kids must be pretty good if they can race GT1! Didn't it take them a while to do the license tests? Even bronze in that game takes some mastery. GT1 is definiately harder than GT2. GT2 got rid of qualifying, they've got the kiddie prize for those who suck at license testing. In GT2 all you need is horsepower to win, and money is lots more easier to come by. I think the spot races & Sunday Cup in GT1 are rather simple if you've got some experience at any sort of arcade racing game, but from there on up ...

 

[Gabkicks]

yeah... i was thinking gt5 should have options for diehard simmers and people who want easier physics. i guess game difficulty adjustment or something.

 

[T5-R]

GT4 is a good game, but not as revolutionary as it should have been. Its unlikely they will ever surpass the 'revolution' that was GT1. But to me it seems they aren't even properly trying.

Developers/Marketeers 'Hey dudes, what do people like?'
Developers/Marketeers 'Ummm Nissan Skylines and hype?'
Developers/Marketeers'You got it!'

500 years later...
Gamer: 'Is this GT3 with more cars, tracks, improved handling and slightly better graphics?'
Shop Keeper: 'Yes'
Gamer: 'What about online?'
Shop Keeper: 'Buy an Xbox'

 

[SportWagon]

My son and his friends (aged around 13) wont play GT4 as it is too hard.
By comparison he and his freinds all enjoyed GT1 as it was a lot easier to learn.
I think the unrealistic braking distances in the early games made it easier for the kids to master.
GT2 had 600 cars which is enough for most tastes. Also the racing mods available in GT1 & 2 appealed to the kids because they like to change the appearence of the cars they drive.
80 license tests in GT4 is also a little to much for kids wanting a quick speed fix.

What part of each game are they playing or not playing?

GT1 Arcade Mode is a genuine self-contained game--completing it on hard can be a good way to fill an evening for me.

A big problem with GT4 is the insistence on sports tires for many "easy" races. The principle, I assume, was to train people to learn to handle loss of adhesion, in preparation for more powerful cars later, but really it might make more sense to allow racing tires in easier races, and not allow them in later races. Which all-in-all means use Manufacturer's races as easy races, since all of them (except one) allow racing tires. E.g. the Lupo race is excellent, and, when modified, your B license test prize is appropriate for it.

But all-in-all, you're right, the 16 license tests with 4 lap tests per license is a time-consuming drag. And GT4 Arcade Mode is not really a game, and tends to force sports tires on you again.

Suppose their Uncle does their tests for them?

No need, I know. GT1 and GT2 are a good solution.

 

[Gabkicks]

from what u guys are saying, you feelt gran turismo becoming less fun as the series progresses? So, more realistic physics are not as fun to you guys? If i wanted extreme speed through corners pulling over 2g's and f1 performance out of a honda civic i'd play nfsu2.

Because of a lot of gt4 fans not wanting the dificulty that comes along with more realistic gameplay, PD seems to have held back on the physics. Because of that, sim fans like me are a dissapointed with how easy most cars are to drive in gt4 and also blatantly obvious flaws with cars. Its a lot better than 3 but not as big of a jump as i'd have liked in the physics department.

I guess you guys like the idea of playing a game very close to real life, but not actually playing one?

 

[Parnelli Bone]

yeah... i was thinking gt5 should have options for diehard simmers and people who want easier physics. i guess game difficulty adjustment or something.

I've been saying this for awhile, too. Like that difficulty switch on the Arcade mode should also be in SIM MOde to seperate the hardcore from the wimps who use a 900 hp GTO or an Escudo to win all the free races.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

GT4 is a good game, but not as revolutionary as it should have been. Its unlikely they will ever surpass the 'revolution' that was GT1. But to me it seems they aren't even properly trying.

Developers/Marketeers 'Hey dudes, what do people like?'
Developers/Marketeers 'Ummm Nissan Skylines and hype?'
Developers/Marketeers'You got it!'

500 years later...
Gamer: 'Is this GT3 with more cars, tracks, improved handling and slightly better graphics?'
Shop Keeper: 'Yes'
Gamer: 'What about online?'
Shop Keeper: 'Buy an Xbox'

Ha ha yeah, so true!

 

[SportWagon]

I've been saying this for awhile, too. Like that difficulty switch on the Arcade mode should also be in SIM MOde to seperate the hardcore from the wimps who use a 900 hp GTO or an Escudo to win all the free races.

Difficulty of the racess and accuracy of simulation can be two different things.

While it's true that a 900hp Skyline would be a lot more difficult to drive with a more accurate physics model, it's also likely that it would still be relatively easy to beat lesser competition with it. So the physics model could be accurate without making the races more "fair". (Well, alright, you could end up with a game in which almost nobody could control the cars well enough to stay pointed in the right direction at all).

 

[Uncle Harry]

My sons friend bought GT4. He has completed 5% and given up as it is too hard to progress. My son had a breif go at GT3 and gave up and does not want to even try GT4.
As I said earlier they enjoyed GT1 and 2 because they could win races and also manage to keep the cars on the track. (Played both arcade and Sim)
With instruction from me my son was able to gold several licenses in GT1 and 2.
He even had his own game save on his mem card for GT1 and 2. His favourite car in GT1 was a SKyline with Race Body and 900 hp)
They have now gravitated to the Need for Speed Underground games.
Young Kids do not appreciate how close to real life GT3 and GT4 physics are (as they have never driven in real life). They just want to go as fast as possible. They do not understand the concept of slow in fast out.
They love the cars and graphics but hate the physics. ( to hard)
I say give them GT1 and 2 with PS2 levels of graphics with the old physics engines and they would buy the game in huge numbers and love it.
I also love GT1 and it would be great if I could play it with nice graphics in the future.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Sportwagon: yeah I see your points. I was just fantasising I guess.

Harry: I often forget that kids and teens are into games just as much as we are, but for different reasons. My nephew is 9 or 10 (I forget) and we've done a few races, but he's a lot more obsessed with the pure speed and how cool the car he's driving looks. Once I went up against him in GT2 2 player mode at Red Rock Speedway. I was in a Daihatsu Midget (32 hp) and he had a '99 Mercury Cougar (somewhere around 163) and I almost beat him because he doesn't understand that braking is just as important as going fast!

He loves games like Spiderman in which there is so much happening at once, people getting beat up every other second. I watch that and go: man, that'll give me a headache in 2 minutes! I'm more into appreciating the graphics and beauty of the game. I still remember what it was like playing on the Atari 2600 when I was 14 and so i'm totally amazed at even GT2 graphics.

 

[TMM]

Young Kids do not appreciate how close to real life GT3 and GT4 physics are (as they have never driven in real life). They just want to go as fast as possible. They do not understand the concept of slow in fast out.
They love the cars and graphics but hate the physics. ( to hard)

But why should PD pander to the young kids and change the game format to suit them? There are plenty of 'go fast' racing games out there but the GT series has always been about racing and racing techniques. Yes it is easy to beat a Honda Civic with a 900HP Skyline but not if you can't control the drive.

I say give them GT1 and 2 with PS2 levels of graphics with the old physics engines and they would buy the game in huge numbers and love it.
I also love GT1 and it would be great if I could play it with nice graphics in the future.

I don't understand, you can play GT1 & 2 on the PS2 and improve the load times and graphics for both games. OK it doesn't match GT3 graphics but there is no way that PD can pay devlopers to re-model all the cars available in GT1 & 2 to the level of GT3. That's why there is a shortage of cars in GT3, it was taking weeks to model the cars to that level of detail compared to days with the earlier series.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

But why should PD pander to the young kids and change the game format to suit them? There are plenty of 'go fast' racing games out there but the GT series has always been about racing and racing techniques. Yes it is easy to beat a Honda Civic with a 900HP Skyline but not if you can't control the drive.]

That's why PD is eventually gonna release that GT for Kids game. So they can cash in on the younger market.

 

[SportWagon]

Actually, pandering to the kids is probably a very sensible thing to do. They will buy (or at least acquire, e.g. as a gift) something, and then get tired of it in a couple of months (or less) and then buy something else. Producing something which adults can use over and over again for years and years and years is arguably pretty bad marketing.

Though videogame marketing isn't all that cut-and-dried I guess. Otherwise I'd wonder why they produce games which take so long to complete now. Is it to dissuade you from redoing them, or just a natural result of the competitive forces?

But, when it comes down to it, Harry's son's friend who bought GT4 but gave up on it and bought something else is an ideal videogame customer. As long as they eventually manage to persuade him that GT5 will be much better. (I.e. as long as the experience of GT4 doesn't irretrievably detract from his perception of the entire series).

Conclusion: A new GT for kids game would be a very good idea.

 

[DavidRoy90]

I started racing Gran Turismo 2 when I was 10. I was very successful. Of course, I have ben driving go-karts and quarter midgets since I can remember and things like set-up and race craft were easy for me to come by. Though I suppose not all children have the fortune of being bred into a family where things like rallying, ARCA stockcar racing, and trans-am were something one would grow up competing in (in various disciplans from coffee getter to tire changer.) I suppose it would be good to get the game into a younger market. Get the kids involved early. I only learned of GT through hear-say at the track. Marketing would be the key to getting the game to sell. GT shouldn't lower itself to Need For Speed levels but should still put in a comprehensive Drift Mode as well as exterior modification parts (though that would be a b**** to liscence with the manufacturers. <--This is why games like that have so few cars.)

Dave

 

[superfast]

Okay, throw in the Chaser LM, and you have a deal.

And the other LMs, like the 3000GT (then called a GTO), Nissan GT-R, and any others I'm missing.

 

[superfast]

Actually, pandering to the kids is probably a very sensible thing to do. They will buy (or at least acquire, e.g. as a gift) something, and then get tired of it in a couple of months (or less) and then buy something else. Producing something which adults can use over and over again for years and years and years is arguably pretty bad marketing.

Good points, but I'm 13, and positive that I'm going to be on GT4 for a long, long time. You can count on it!

 

[Pupik]

A big problem with GT4 is the insistence on sports tires for many "easy" races. The principle, I assume, was to train people to learn to handle loss of adhesion, in preparation for more powerful cars later, but really it might make more sense to allow racing tires in easier races, and not allow them in later races.

I disagree, it's fine for the "starter" races/series, but yes, after a while (Professional and Enduro Races), it's annoying because the AI has a power advantage up it's sleeve. Most of us (probably) agree that it's more fun to make up time on the corners, rather than blast by your opponents on the straights. If you don't want to bolt on more power, it's more fun to have a cornering advantage.

But all-in-all, you're right, the 16 license tests with 4 lap tests per license is a time-consuming drag.

It's a little much in GT4, which really has 114 tests (Mission Hall is just as frustrating at times). Ten tests per license was fine for the first 3 games, it's just overkill at this point. If PD wants to make things difficult for the players, how about forcing you to complete all the non-Superlicense-required races before tackling the Superlicense and races!

But now I'm way off topic....just go buy GT1 and GT2 used for $15. PD will create an (r)evolutionary (hopefully) new game, not mucking about in nostalgia for their future offerings. Now that the console driving sim market has expanded and also has much tougher competition, it wouldn't be wise to go backward. Besides, "nostalgia" is for the saps like us who still post in these little-used forums.

 

[Gil]

If they're gonna do a remake, can we get GT2 with the graphics of GT3 or GT4?
I personally think that a compilation including all the "fluff" GT games should be next for the countries that didn't get GTC, or Prologue.
And If we get two versions of Le sarthe, and a billion versions of Fuji, can we get both versions of SSR-11? If it returns.
I admit that I truly despise the track, especially in the reverse direction. But bring back both versions for the "purists" among us.
Also could we have Rome, Rome Night, and Grindelwald, and Red Rock Valley back please?
Oh and for the enduros Rome Night would be great. And a save feature (in the pits) for those of us that are drivers, rather than pit managers.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Actually, pandering to the kids is probably a very sensible thing to do. They will buy (or at least acquire, e.g. as a gift) something, and then get tired of it in a couple of months (or less) and then buy something else. Producing something which adults can use over and over again for years and years and years is arguably pretty bad marketing.

Though videogame marketing isn't all that cut-and-dried I guess. Otherwise I'd wonder why they produce games which take so long to complete now. Is it to dissuade you from redoing them, or just a natural result of the competitive forces?

But, when it comes down to it, Harry's son's friend who bought GT4 but gave up on it and bought something else is an ideal videogame customer. As long as they eventually manage to persuade him that GT5 will be much better. (I.e. as long as the experience of GT4 doesn't irretrievably detract from his perception of the entire series).

True. I've certainly bought my fair share of games (non-GT) that I get bored with and they either collect dust or I'll sell them. As an adult, I like games that take awhile to finish, but they have to hold my attention. I remember as a teen having a whole slew of Atari and Activision games....and eventually I only kept on playing a handful of them like Adventure, Tunnel Runner, and River Raid. Okay....Offf Topic Alert going into Code Red!

 

[SportWagon]

I disagree, it's fine for the "starter" races/series, but yes, after a while (Professional and Enduro Races), it's annoying because the AI has a power advantage up it's sleeve. Most of us (probably) agree that it's more fun to make up time on the corners, rather than blast by your opponents on the straights. If you don't want to bolt on more power, it's more fun to have a cornering advantage.

Mumble. My emphasis was more on allowing racing tires for beginner races than not allowing them in later series.

Oh yes, the lack of practice makes the sports tires extra annoying. I'm way way off-topic here, except for the fact the ability to practise (and practise and practise and practise...) in GT1 probably really helped its popularity. So I could see "absolute beginner" races where racing tires are allowed, "learning" races with lightly-tuned cars restricted to sports tires, and then racing tires for all hard-tuned or racing cars after that. But just like in (sigh...) GT1, practice should be allowed in all events. It doesn't seem like GT without practice.

 

[Pupik]

But just like in (sigh...) GT1, practice should be allowed in all events. It doesn't seem like GT without practice.

Yeah, PD screwed up on the lack of practice in GT4 for all events.

In fact, they've never gotten it completely right: GT1 had both practice and qualfying, except scoring a decent lap was impossible unless you wanted to kill the AI in the first few corners, or de-tune your car later. At least you had some idea what cars you were facing, and how much powerthey had.

GT2 had practice only, no qualifying. No idea what cars you're facing, either. Maybe that Ford GT40 will sneak in there, or maybe not.

GT3 had qualifying only, but at least you were permitted a rolling lap. And you could tell if you were going to fight the Lotus Elise or not.

GT4 seems bent on making you suffer with 6th place in the non-series races; but at least practice might have helped. Hey, at least you can still tell if the AC Cobra's gong to rain on your parade!

When it's all said and done; GT1 got it 80% right: Qualifying and Practice, and a table of cars with power/weight that you're facing. If only they removed the "standing start" qualifying with a "rolling" one (like GT3/4), it would have been PERFECT!

 

[katana87]

^ plays a lot.
Remaking GT1 would be completly stupid they might as well just make GT5 and add some of the stuff that GT1 had. that sounds better.

and why would you want a remake to play with all the bad AI? really needs to work on the level of competition in the game.

 

[SportWagon]

GT3 had qualifying only, but at least you were permitted a rolling lap. And you could tell if you were going to fight the Lotus Elise or not.

Well, the qualifying was practice as well, really. I mean, you could do as many laps as you wanted trying to get a better placing. I actually wish they had the clock going for the first lap. It's tedious needing to drive an entire lap before you get actual timing information. Having separate practice and qualifying could be frustrating if you couldn't match your practice time in qualifying. But then PD isn't above causing a little frustration now-and-then.

An advantage of GT1 was that qualifying was very fast once you knew the car and track. So a rolling start rather than needing to start in the pits and make a complete lap would improve things in the most recent games.