Weak Vettes

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FAOLIU05
He probably thinks that because a majority of the time, there really is no car that can hang with a Z06. The cars you people picked out to "beat" the Corvette Z06 are just completely ridiculous and unrealistic. A TVR? A Noble? A Ford GT?! rotflmao, in my opinion its just a pathetic attempt to prove someone wrong.

Fact is, the Corvette Z06 is very affordable and very easy to come across. Thus they will appeal more to the public than some $70,000 TVR, $80,000 Noble, or $140,000 Ford GT (Note that these cars are Supercars, not Sportcars).

Anyways... The Corvette hangs on the outer edge of just affordable, leaving only the higher-class of middle class to buy them. A HUGE majority of the traffic in America consists of Honda's, Kia's, Chevy's, and Ford's... Then you have the SUVs, Trucks, Vans, and Wagons. A majority of the time, you truly are untouchable. That is of course you don't just happen to run across that pesky TVR, Noble, or GT, which realistically would never happen in America. I'm even doubting the GT because of it's value and rarity.

Now, the Z06 is ultimately not as fast, quick, or better handling than a TVR or Noble, but the fact is... They aren't far off. Like I said, these Supercars are just a smidgett better than the Z06. They are significantly or hugely better, just a smidget...
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Your wrong there mate, a TVR that would cost $70,000 would hammer the Z06, $70,000 is what, around £45,000. A T350C would probably beat a Z06, people were paying just over £30,000 for thoes at first, although now they cost £38,000. I'm in no way going to slag off the Z06, it's part of the Corvette legacy and is an icon among Americas youth. And to achieve somethng like that is a big achievement, also it's no slouch but comparing it to a TVR is a little vauge since they start affordable in the same sence the Z06 is affordable and the affordable TVR's like the Tamora and T350C and T and the Cerbera 4.0 and the 3.6 Tuscan which can all be had for under £40,000 (correct me if I'm wrong but £40k is around $60-65,000) will be in competition with the Z06, I would think the Tamora would be close call perhaps the Z06 would win, but the rest I'd exect the TVR to win in the race especilly the Tuscan and Cerbera.

Then you get cars like the Tuscan S, Sagaris and a well specced Noble M12, these cost more and are better than a Z06 without a doubt. The Tuscan S and Sagaris should be faster by a larger margin than the M12 but the victory would be notable by each of the cars. Now we get into the Supercars with the T440R, Typhon and Noble M400R. These cars are not a smidgen better than a Z06, these cars are very clearly a class or two above, the Typhon is perhaps unfair in this comaprison but it's not the most expensive car mentioned by quite a bit, only by a few grand, yet it's performance would be blistering on a track.

Anyway I've got slightly sidetracked here, but the main point I was making is that you can get just as affordable cars that can keep up with or beat a Corvette Z06. Not just by TVR, theres Marcos and whole host of other sportscars in the UK alone. The cars that are notably more expensive, are notably faster too and the cars mentioned again arn't the only examples of this.
 
Like I said... the Z06 isn't the best sportcar out there and doesn't set the bar at all. I'm a huge fan, but I can admitt defeat. When it comes to TVR's and Noble's...it's not a complete trounce. It's not a kill or murder. The race would be nearly equally matched. The TVR would be ahead, no doubt, but with only a mere lead. But thats something I would sacrifice any time, given the Z06's price compared to the TVR ($45,000 (if that) to $70,000). Thats my point. It's not going to beat a supercar. Pure and simple. But it will sure as hell come close.
 
live4speed
Your wrong there mate, a TVR that would cost $70,000 would hammer the Z06, $70,000 is what, around £45,000. A T350C would probably beat a Z06, people were paying just over £30,000 for thoes at first, although now they cost £38,000. I'm in no way going to slag off the Z06, it's part of the Corvette legacy and is an icon among Americas youth. And to achieve somethng like that is a big achievement, also it's no slouch but comparing it to a TVR is a little vauge since they start affordable in the same sence the Z06 is affordable and the affordable TVR's like the Tamora and T350C and T and the Cerbera 4.0 and the 3.6 Tuscan which can all be had for under £40,000 (correct me if I'm wrong but £40k is around $60-65,000) will be in competition with the Z06, I would think the Tamora would be close call perhaps the Z06 would win, but the rest I'd exect the TVR to win in the race especilly the Tuscan and Cerbera.

Then you get cars like the Tuscan S, Sagaris and a well specced Noble M12, these cost more and are better than a Z06 without a doubt. The Tuscan S and Sagaris should be faster by a larger margin than the M12 but the victory would be notable by each of the cars. Now we get into the Supercars with the T440R, Typhon and Noble M400R. These cars are not a smidgen better than a Z06, these cars are very clearly a class or two above, the Typhon is perhaps unfair in this comaprison but it's not the most expensive car mentioned by quite a bit, only by a few grand, yet it's performance would be blistering on a track.

Anyway I've got slightly sidetracked here, but the main point I was making is that you can get just as affordable cars that can keep up with or beat a Corvette Z06. Not just by TVR, theres Marcos and whole host of other sportscars in the UK alone. The cars that are notably more expensive, are notably faster too and the cars mentioned again arn't the only examples of this.
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Dosnt the marcos use the coevette drivetrain?

b
 
live4speed
Your wrong there mate, a TVR that would cost $70,000 would hammer the Z06, $70,000 is what, around £45,000. A T350C would probably beat a Z06, people were paying just over £30,000 for thoes at first, although now they cost £38,000. I'm in no way going to slag off the Z06, it's part of the Corvette legacy and is an icon among Americas youth. And to achieve somethng like that is a big achievement, also it's no slouch but comparing it to a TVR is a little vauge since they start affordable in the same sence the Z06 is affordable and the affordable TVR's like the Tamora and T350C and T and the Cerbera 4.0 and the 3.6 Tuscan which can all be had for under £40,000 (correct me if I'm wrong but £40k is around $60-65,000) will be in competition with the Z06, I would think the Tamora would be close call perhaps the Z06 would win, but the rest I'd exect the TVR to win in the race especilly the Tuscan and Cerbera.

Then you get cars like the Tuscan S, Sagaris and a well specced Noble M12, these cost more and are better than a Z06 without a doubt. The Tuscan S and Sagaris should be faster by a larger margin than the M12 but the victory would be notable by each of the cars. Now we get into the Supercars with the T440R, Typhon and Noble M400R. These cars are not a smidgen better than a Z06, these cars are very clearly a class or two above, the Typhon is perhaps unfair in this comaprison but it's not the most expensive car mentioned by quite a bit, only by a few grand, yet it's performance would be blistering on a track.

Anyway I've got slightly sidetracked here, but the main point I was making is that you can get just as affordable cars that can keep up with or beat a Corvette Z06. Not just by TVR, theres Marcos and whole host of other sportscars in the UK alone. The cars that are notably more expensive, are notably faster too and the cars mentioned again arn't the only examples of this.
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Damit live you beat me to it!
Live hasn't even mentioned Caterham yet (unless I missed it). Caterham are miles cheaper and would beat a Corvette by a long shot, and for a lot less price. Ok so they're not practical like the Z06 but still. Don't get me wrong I love the corvette, I think it's a fantastic car especially for the price as well. And the road reviews read of it as well, it sounds like one hell of a car. But still I think you guys overhyped it a lot. But at teh end of the day it just comes down to preferrance, I'm sure Americans would go for an American brute over a British sports car 99% of the time, and so would I, I'd much prefer a TVR or Noble over a Vette, nothing wrong with patriotism.

Going back to the original point of the thread, you could find they add more American cars for the American version of the game. Someone mentioned on here that for the PAL release they've supposedly added several more European cars, from what they've heard.
 
All of the TVRs are fast in a straight line not on a track. TVRs focus power not handling. Ive seen videos of a NSX with 276hp beat Tuscans with 350hp. I think a vette could take a Tuscan on a track any day.
 
wee_man
Live hasn't even mentioned Caterham yet (unless I missed it). Caterham are miles cheaper and would beat a Corvette by a long shot, and for a lot less price. Ok so they're not practical like the Z06 but still.
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If we bring practical into the equation, the Corvette is not. A two-seater with a mild amount of trunk space? Corvettes are fun, but the only person they'd be a pratical daily driver to is a rich business man, or a single person buring up all their cash on their car.

I'd rather have the Mustang. Sure the back seat is small, but at least it has a back seat.

Also, I'd rather have a stock Skyline GTR (R34 pref.) than a Z06 Vette. When it comes to gas, the twin turbo 6 and the V8 will eat about the same, but when it comes to storage capacity and and drving ability in adverse weather conditions, the Skyline GTR's semi-4wd system can better handle that.
And if ypu want to bring price into the equation, it's already been stated that a Vette goes for 45,000gbp or about $85,000 U.S. in the UK. Not so bargin priced once it's taken out of it's home evironment now is it?

Arguing price becomes difficult because price varies depending where in the world you are purchasing the vehicle.
 
Reidier
If we bring practical into the equation, the Corvette is not. A two-seater with a mild amount of trunk space? Corvettes are fun, but the only person they'd be a pratical daily driver to is a rich business man, or a single person buring up all their cash on their car.

I'd rather have the Mustang. Sure the back seat is small, but at least it has a back seat.

Also, I'd rather have a stock Skyline GTR (R34 pref.) than a Z06 Vette. When it comes to gas, the twin turbo 6 and the V8 will eat about the same, but when it comes to storage capacity and and drving ability in adverse weather conditions, the Skyline GTR's semi-4wd system can better handle that.
And if ypu want to bring price into the equation, it's already been stated that a Vette goes for 45,000gbp or about $85,000 U.S. in the UK. Not so bargin priced once it's taken out of it's home evironment now is it?

Arguing price becomes difficult because price varies depending where in the world you are purchasing the vehicle.
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where did you see an $85,000 Vette? you can get two for that
 
yeti
It costs that much in the UK...

C.
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he is in the US according to his sig, and i didnt know you got so robbed on car prices on imports. thats rediculous. Is that to protect you domestic manufacturers?
 
cudadude2
he is in the US according to his sig, and i didnt know you got so robbed on car prices on imports. thats rediculous. Is that to protect you domestic manufacturers?
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Nope... it would cost 45K for a vette in england from Vauxhall (Part of GM)... but it they did a straight currency exchange from US then it would be 25K (ish) and would be amazingly priced for it's ability... and they would probably sell out their quota within days... so they keep the price higher so that they can make more money from the UK market for the limited numbers that they're allowed to sell here... Not that 45K is that expensive (Still V cheap).

Also we get cained for VAT in this country which is 17.5% of the price... so the real price would be 37K without that!!

What's your equivalent Tax rate?

C.
 
Cost in USA
........................................USD.................EUR.................GBP
2004 RX-8........................$ 26,680..........20,475.69..........14,273.21
2004 EVO RS....................$ 26,799..........20,568.66..........14,338.32
2004 EVO VIII...................$ 29,999..........23,024.78..........16,050.42
2004 350Z Performance......$ 30,630..........23,513.42..........16,386.26
2004 WRX STI..................$ 31,120..........23,887.53..........16,648.39
2004 S2000......................$ 32,000..........24,559.57..........17,120.27
2004 GTO .......................$ 32,795..........25,169.02..........17,545.60
2004 350Z Track...............$ 34,280..........26,308.56..........18,340.08
2004 Mustang Cobra..........$ 34,860..........26,750.37..........18,650.63
2004 BMW Z4 3.0i.............$ 40,900..........31,384.48..........21,882.12
2005 Corvette..................$ 43,710..........33,550.86..........23,385.57
2004 Corvette..................$ 43,838..........33,644.52..........23,454.05
2004 M3..........................$ 48,100..........36,919.37..........25,738.71
2004 Corvette ZO6............$ 52,185..........40,054.83..........27,924.63
2004 Jaguar XKR...............$ 81,330..........62,421.55..........43,520.00
2004 Viper.......................$ 84,090..........64,548.54..........44,996.88
2004 NSX 3.2...................$ 89,000..........68,317.51..........47,624.24
2004 911 Turbo...............$119,700..........91,902.44..........64,049.08
2005 Ford GT..................$142,095.........109,096.72..........76,032.20

Lotus Elise N/A
Marcos N/A
TVR N/A

Now if someone from Europe could do the cost there we would have a much better understanding of how these cars compare to each other in price.

Edit
I used http://www.kbb.com/ and http://www.xe.com/
 
yeti
Nope... it would cost 45K for a vette in england from Vauxhall (Part of GM)... but it they did a straight currency exchange from US then it would be 25K (ish) and would be amazingly priced for it's ability... and they would probably sell out their quota within days... so they keep the price higher so that they can make more money from the UK market for the limited numbers that they're allowed to sell here... Not that 45K is that expensive (Still V cheap).

Also we get cained for VAT in this country which is 17.5% of the price... so the real price would be 37K without that!!

What's your equivalent Tax rate?

C.
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What is VAT?
The sales tax where I am is 7.5% I think.
 
syclone538
What is VAT?
The sales tax where I am is 7.5% I think.
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"Value Added Tax"

Basically tax on new purchases and services that goes to the government cos you paid for something!!!

Sounds very similar to your sales tax... so you have 7.5 we have 17.5?!

C.
 
Sales tax is a tax on everything except food and newspapers. What all does VAT apply to? And I'm sure the U.S. government makes up for the difference somewhere else, like income tax or property tax.
 
syclone538
Cost in USA
........................................USD...............EUR
2004 RX-8........................$ 26,680..........20,475.69
2004 EVO RS....................$ 26,799..........20,568.66
2004 EVO VIII...................$ 29,999..........23,024.78
2004 350Z Performance......$ 30,630..........23,513.42
2004 WRX STI..................$ 31,120..........23,887.53
2004 S2000......................$ 32,000..........24,559.57
2004 GTO .......................$ 32,795..........25,169.02
2004 350Z Track...............$ 34,280..........26,308.56
2004 Mustang Cobra..........$ 34,860..........26,750.37
2004 BMW Z4 3.0i.............$ 40,900..........31,384.48
2005 Corvette..................$ 43,710..........33,550.86
2004 Corvette..................$ 43,838..........33,644.52
2004 M3..........................$ 48,100..........36,919.37
2004 Corvette ZO6............$ 52,185..........40,054.83
2004 Jaguar XKR...............$ 81,330..........62,421.55
2004 Viper.......................$ 84,090..........64,548.54
2004 NSX 3.2...................$ 89,000..........68,317.51
2004 911 Turbo...............$119,700..........91,902.44
2005 Ford GT..................$142,095.........109,096.72

Lotus Elise N/A
Marcos N/A
TVR N/A

Now if someone from Europe could do the cost there we would have a much better understanding of how these cars compare to each other in price.

Edit
I used http://www.kbb.com/ and http://www.xe.com/
Click to expand...

........................................GBP...............EUR
2004 RX-8........................£ 21,902..........31,537.1
2004 EVO RS....................£ ??..........
2004 EVO VIII...................£ 23,801..........34,271.5
2004 350Z Performance......£ 26,802..........38,592.7
2004 WRX STI..................£ 25,307..........36,440.0
2004 S2000......................£ 27,677..........39,852.6
2004 GTO .......................?? What manufacturer ??
2004 350Z Track...............£ ??..........
2004 Mustang Cobra..........£ ??..........
2004 BMW Z4 3.0i.............£ 30,895..........44,486.3
2005 Corvette..................£ ??..........
2004 Corvette..................£ ??..........
2004 M3..........................£ 40,395..........58,165.5
2004 Corvette ZO6............£ ??..........
2004 Jaguar XKR...............£ 60,397..........86,966.8
2004 Viper.......................£ 77,500.......... 111,593
2004 NSX 3.2...................£ 59,427.......... 85,570.1
2004 911 Turbo...............£99,300..........142,984
2005 Ford GT..................£??.........
2004 Lotus Elise..................£ 27,995.........40,310.5
2004 Marcos TS (5.0)..................£34,950......... 50,325.1
2000 TVR Cerbera (4.0 Speed 6)..................£41,100.........59,180.7
2001 TVR Tamora (3.6) ..................£36,500..........52,557.0
2003 TVR 350c (3.6) ..................£38,500..........55,436.9
2001 TVR Tuscan (3.6) ..................£39,850..........57,380.8
2001 TVR Tuscan S (4.0) ..................£49,995..........71,988.7
2003 TVR T400R (4.0) ..................£69,995.......... 100,787
2003 TVR T440R (4.0) ..................£74,995..........107,986
2004 TVR Sagaris (4.0) ..................£49,995..........71,988.7
2004 TVR Typhon (4.0) ..................£84,995..........122,385

C.
 
syclone538
pontiac makes the GTO

DAMN, we pay about 65% of what you pay???
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Well that does reinforce the statement that the Corvette is only a bargin in the U.S.

So maybe the Corvette boasters will shut up about that bargin price thing when things become international? After all, that appears to always be the major selling point for the Corvette when arguments about best sportscar (or performance car in general) pop up.

It's like an employee who works at a store that sells dvds. With his employee discount he can get a special edition dvd for less than the cost of the full priced regular edition. He then imeadiately goes around telling everyone that the dvd he bought is the best bargin for under whatever amount that is slightly more than what he paid for it. To him it's the best deal in the world, but everyone else is still scrathing their heads about this "bargin" he keeps boasting about since they still have to pay full price.

Sorry, bad analogy, but it poped into my mind while I was thinking of this and for some crazy reason I thought it would fit.
 
:) Does anyone else have the February issue of EVO? There is a comparisson test of the Tuscan S Mk2 vs the C6, quite an interesting read...

I don't have a scanner and the article isn't on their website, but the cover shot is www.evo.co.uk

Cheers,

Paul
 
plfrench
:) Does anyone else have the February issue of EVO? There is a comparisson test of the Tuscan S Mk2 vs the C6, quite an interesting read...

I don't have a scanner and the article isn't on their website, but the cover shot is www.evo.co.uk

Cheers,

Paul
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it dosnt come out in the states till the first of the month. World best car mag though, by far. Car is second, also from the the other side of the pond.

b
 
I agree EVO is brilliant. The February issue came out over here about the 5th Jan, the 1st of Feb would make more sense really....

Autocar also has a test of the Tuscan in it this week, but I haven't read that yet just looked at the pictures before I came to work!!!
 
cudadude2
it dosnt come out in the states till the first of the month. World best car mag though, by far. Car is second, also from the the other side of the pond.

b
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The following is from the closing section of the Evo article

" The Tuscan S Mk2 is more engaging, louder and more handsome, and probably the best car TVR has ever made. The C6 Corvette is as thrillingly fast, feels absolutely bullet-proof and is probably the best American car we have ever driven. It boils down to whether you want a low-volume, hand-built sports car or one that features all the technology - anti-lock, stability control etc - of a modern saloon and has been developed just as throroughly. They're both immensly appealing; what will swing it for many will simply be the Corvette's lack of right hand drive. But there's no question it's finally competeing with Europe's best."

Corvette 4/5 (£45k)
MG SV-R 3/5 (£83k)
Tuscan S Mk 2 4.5/5 (£50k)

The same issue also has a feture on the C6 against a 911, and this is the close of that article.

"That said, the C6 isn't as far from the 911 as most people would imagine. It's solid, refined and plenty fast enough, yet GM has just announced an even more powerful Corvette, the Z06, which will have a 500bhp 7-litre version of the LS2 engine. If it's more agile too, the European sports car makers will genuinely have something to worry about."


The enire issue is dedicated to 'America vs. The World' and is well worth a look, but all of you in the USA, please do remember that all the articles are written with the UK and Europe in mind and our road (particularly in the UK) do not generally suit American cars.
 
Scaff
The following is from the closing section of the Evo article

all of you in the USA, please do remember that all the articles are written with the UK and Europe in mind and our road (particularly in the UK) do not generally suit American cars.
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and the oppisite is also true. small adgile cars dont tent to deal with the US's large highways running hundreds of miles between cities.
please excuse the spelling, its not my strong suit.

b
 

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