Weak Vettes

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syclone538
You do know that a ZL1 is just an aluminum L88, right?

Edit
http://www.fast-autos.net/chevrolet/chevrolet.html

"The L88 engine, offered in 1967 through 1969, was a racing engine offerered to the public for use on the street. Although listed at only 430 hp, the engine's real output was more like 600 hp. "

"Factory claims listed the L88 V8 producing 430 hp, but dyno testing on a '68 L88 found it had 560 hp. "

"On the dragstrip, the ZL-1 (camaro) ran a 10.41 sec @ 128 mph 1/4 mile with racing slicks. "

"The '69 Corvette ZL-1 is claimed to be the fastest production Corvette EVER produced. With racing slicks, the ZL-1 is capable of running the 1/4 mile in only 10.5 seconds. "


The ZL-1 is an aluminum version of the L88 but it had a few parts thats gave it slightly more output.

Again, engine dyno testing is not what it used to be, gross HP is not the same as net HP.
 
Omologato
I hope you were kidding there...:p


Anyway, to sound even worse, I would take a NSX over a 'Vette anyday, regardless of how much better the 'Vette is, or the fact that the 'Vette is cheaper.



Having driven an NSX quite extensively, its not a choice I would make, the Z06 will outperform the NSX by a VERY soniderable margin and do it at a lower cost. The NSX is WAY overpriced for the performance it offers. It was great in 1991 when it was first released, but those days are LONG gone.
 
Race Idiot
A Noble is street legal, most of it's interior comes from a Ford Mondeo/Contour.


Street legal and street car are two different things. I have a friend with a 7 second Mustang that's street legal but its certainly NOT a street car.
 
yeti
The noble is completely a street car...

If the noble isn't a street car then neither is the corvette!!

C.



How many Noble's would you say that you see on a daily basis on the street? Just curious.
 
Blkout
Having driven an NSX quite extensively, its not a choice I would make, the Z06 will outperform the NSX by a VERY soniderable margin and do it at a lower cost. The NSX is WAY overpriced for the performance it offers. It was great in 1991 when it was first released, but those days are LONG gone.
No doubt it will. I'd still take a NSX though, if given a choice. Actually, now that older Testarossas can now be had for around $75-95k, I'd take one of those.

I wanna be Don Johnson.:D
 
Blkout
Who many Noble's would you say that you see on a daily basis on the street? Just curious.

I've seen more nobles on the street than I've seen corvettes... if that's what your asking... and in fact the only place where I've ever seen a Corvette (and Dodge Viper for that matter) is on the race track...

Bear in mind that in the garage where I live there are about 4 porsches and a P1 Impreza.

C.
 
Dirkiyo
well, not that much! but it's still a street legal car................even if it looks more like a real racer.


Again, street legal and street car are two different things. Isn't take much for a car to be street legal, its a different story when you're talking about a car that can be driven daily.
 
yeti
I've seen more nobles on the street than I've seen corvettes... if that's what your asking... and in fact the only place where I've ever seen a Corvette (and Dodge Viper for that matter) is on the race track...

Bear in mind that in the garage where I live there are about 4 porsches and a P1 Impreza.

C.


No, that is not what I asked, I asked how many you see on a daily basis on the street.
 
Blkout
No, that is not what I asked, I asked how many you see on a daily basis on the street.

On a daily basis None... Last time I saw one was on my way to the dentists...

But I don't see Corvettes on a daily basis either... I do however see a Ferrari 360 Modena on a daily basis parked in the car park next door.

This is a moot question though as I travel to work via Foot or Bike and don't walk/ride along roads (And the ones I do are Buses or Taxis only!)...

C.
 
yeti
I've seen more nobles on the street than I've seen corvettes... if that's what your asking...
C.
Well you would, seeing as how Corvettes would have to be imported.:p
 
Blkout
Again, street legal and street car are two different things. Isn't take much for a car to be street legal, its a different story when you're talking about a car that can be driven daily.

it's ment to be sold to custumors who are planning to use it on a daily basis.
 
Omologato
Well you would, seeing as how Corvettes would have to be imported.:p

Not strictly true... I believe that GM sold the last Vette here (C5?!) and plan to sell the next one too.

C.
 
that could be true..................but how many Corvettes do i see here on a daily basis. i'm lucky if see one every three months............excluding visists to carshows and tracksdays.
 
http://www.supercars.net/cars/2005@$Saleen@$S7%20Twin%20Turbox.html
ok ok, heres the replacement for that 'weak' saleen in the game.

b
 
My take on this is that it would be impossible to include every single car ever made and since its a Japanese game, the focus is on Japanese cars naturally. Hopefully GT5 will have a wider selection to make everyone happy.
 
Blkout
The ZL-1 is an aluminum version of the L88 but it had a few parts thats gave it slightly more output.

Again, engine dyno testing is not what it used to be, gross HP is not the same as net HP.


Your right, engine dyno testing does not get you the same HP as net HP. However, those Vettes of that era are the quickest built to date. If you mean quickest as in 1/4 mile times. Jimmy Johnston, in a 1969 L88, 4-speed vette, has gone a best of 11.4 @ 124mph. These times are ran at the PSMCDRA events where there is a tech, which he has passed and became "certified stock." Also, these times are on F70-15, Bias-ply Polyglass tires.
 
Blkout
The ZL-1 is an aluminum version of the L88 but it had a few parts thats gave it slightly more output.

Again, engine dyno testing is not what it used to be, gross HP is not the same as net HP.

Show me whats different, that gave it more power.

You are corect that gross is not the same as net, but I dont think there is as much difference as you think.

Blkout
Did you miss the part where I said street cars?

Nobody missed that, the Noble is not a stripped down race car, it is a street car.
I have seen 2, 1 was at a gas station last month, there was snow on the ground, I talked to the guy for 10-15 minutes, he drove the car everyday.
 
Blkout
With the almost exact same power to weight ratio as the Ford GT its going to be much closer than Ford would like to see it. And to think, GM did it at half the price. 👍

Sorry, they arn't close at all. The Ford GT HP is seriously underrated. It produces more than 550hp. In fact, many are saying the quoted 550 is the hp at the wheels. Ford GT Dyno link

Blkout
1/4 times are listed by GM as 11.7@127mph

The 0-60 has been clocked at 3.3 and the 1/4 is run at 11.2 at 131mph stock. I'd say the extra money was well worth it. :sly:

Blkout
I never said people didn't like the Z06, where did you get that from? [/u]

I got that from your own post where you stated you'd never met a person who didn't drool over your omnipotant car (ok, so I summarized your words a bit. :D )

Blkout
You can disagree all you want about not having any competition but stock for stock, there is no street car under $100,000 except the Viper and that includes your Cobra. While I will admit that the 2003-2004 Cobra is a fairly close match at the drag strip, its still slower and on a road course its not even close so please don't even try to go there. I compete plenty with the car at the drag strip and have many friends that run DE's with their Z06's, I know very well what this car's capable of and if you knew as much as you seem to think you do, we would not be having this discussion. :dunce:

Thanks for giving me permission to disagree, I appreciate it. Actually, all you said was "...the viper is the only competition for this car under $100,000". That's not true. Competition is defined in many different ways, a road course only being ONE of them. While I've never claimed the Vette didn't do very well on a road course, I find the performance of the vette on the street to be a different story. The roads, where the vast majority of these cars spend 99.9% of their time, are not built well enough to allow the vette to run at it's best. It's handling advantage is seriously handicapped. On the street, the vette is certainly not the undisputed king as you would make it out to be. If the road course was th eonly place I could shine, I wouldn't be tooting my own horn too loudly. :dunce: Hehe...especially when you consider how many corvette guys actually race to begin with. Most of them are worried about if their chrome license plate is shiny enough, or where they can buy hand towels with the word "Corvette!" written on it. :lol:

You love to point out the price differences in your vette compared to other vehicles at $100,000 or less. Well, that same theory holds true for my ride....except it's a full 12-15 thousand LESS then the vette even. I'd say that's a pretty good bang for the buck. Especially when my entire list of mods (445rwhp/470tq) cost me less than a single set of headers for your car (I've spent $800 total) :lol: and can put you in the mirror on the street anyday.


Blkout
Of course I said its not common, but it has happened and more than once. No one said it was easy, I said the car was capable.

No, you said low 12 sec passes were "...VERY common...", and that "...high 11's on stock tires with a stock car is a bit less common". A bit less common than VERY common? Hardly. I think that's quite an exagerration

All in all, I wouldn't be having this conversation at all if you didn't come off so pompus. As I stated on my origional post, I'm not one of the guys who doesn't like the Vette. I have three friends with ZO6's, two of whom only recently sold their ZO6's (and are on your ZO6.com forum). All are modded. One had bolton's, one had the magnasun supercharger on it, and the other has a 383 stroked nitrous motor. I know what these cars can do. But I also know what they CAN'T do. A bit of humility would probably go a long way towards you living in reality with the rest of us. :D
 
Mosler. Now you're talking! When I made my thread called "American Cars," I wanted to talk about only cars made out of America. And one of the ones mentioned were Moslers. The Florida-based company makes some pretty insane rides. I'd sure love to race one of them in a game, or even see them compete in the ALMS or make a return to Rolex Sports Cars, at least. Like the MT900R has that LS1 Corvette motor, I believe.

Regardless, I'd love to race the 50s and 60s Corvettes. I don't care how many. I don't care what they sound like. I don't care if they perform like rubbish. I just want to drive my black ass off in those things.
 
JohnBM01
Regardless, I'd love to race the 50s and 60s Corvettes. I don't care how many. I don't care what they sound like. I don't care if they perform like rubbish. I just want to drive my black ass off in those things.



Amen. 👍
 
To END ALL the controversy, here are Nurburgring Nordschleife track times...

7:06 --- BMW M3 GTR, 24hrs, test session, Jörg Müller (2003)
7:19 --- Radical SR3 Turbo H22A (2003)
7:25 --- Alzen Motorsport Porsche 996, 24hrs race, Uwe Alzen
7:28 --- Porsche Carrera GT, Walther Röhrl, Autobild July 2004
7:36 --- Porsche Carrera GT, factory test driver Walther Röhrl (2002)
7:40 --- Mercedes Benz McLaren SLR, Klaus Ludwig, Autobild July 2004
7:42 --- Radical 1500 SR3 (2002)
7:43 --- TechArt GT Street (2001)
7:43 --- Porsche 996 911 GT3 RS
7:44 --- Pagani Zonda C12 S (2003)
7:45 --- Gemballa Porsche GT-R 600 (2000)
7:46 --- Porsche 996 GT2
7:46 --- SHK Porsche 993 GT2, 652 PS (1999)
7:47 --- Porsche 996 GT3 RS, 381PS (996) (2004)
7:49 --- Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
7:50 --- BMW E46 M3 CSL (08/2003)
7:50 --- Blitz Supra, 750 PS, Herbert Schürg (1997)
7:50 --- Honda RC30, Helmut Daehne (1993)
7:50 --- Lamborghini Murcielago (06/2002)
7:52 --- Gemballa Porsche 911 Le Mans (1995)
7:52 --- Lamborghini Gallardo E-Gear (12/2003)
7:52 --- Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren (06/2004)
7:54 --- Porsche GT3 (996) (2003)
7:55 --- Caterham R500 Superlight (2002)
7:56 --- Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale (02/2004)
7:56 --- Porsche 996 Turbo
7:56 --- Chevrolet Corvette C6 (tested by Dave Hill)
7:57 --- Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo, 600 PS, racing suspension
8:03 --- Porsche 996 GT3 (1999)
8:04 --- Lamborghini Diablo GT (07/2000)
8:05 --- Ferrari 575M Maranello F1 (12/2002)
8:06 --- Mercedes-Benz SL55 AMG
8:06 --- Caterham 7 Superlight R, Robert Nearn
8:07 --- Ferrari 550 Maranello (06/1998)
8:09 --- Honda NSX-R 3.2 (08/2002)
8:09 --- Ferrari 360 Modena (10/1999)
8:09 --- Lamborghini Diablo SV (no ABS?)
8:10 --- Chrysler Viper GTS, 411PS, UK-Spec, no ABS (10/1997)
8:10 --- Donkervoort D8 180R
8:12 --- Mercedes-Benz SL55 AMG (04/2002)
8:12 --- Porsche 993 Turbo
8:13 --- Lotus Esprit Sport 350, 354 PS (05/1999)
8:10 --- Dodge Viper SRT-10
8:15 --- Ruf 911 CTR 2, 520 PS
8:15 --- Porsche 911 Carrera 2 (997) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:16 --- AC-Schnitzer E36 M3 CLS II, 350 PS (11/1997)
8:17 --- Aston Martin V12 Vanquish (2003)
8:17 --- Porsche 996 C2
8:18 --- BMW Z8, 400 PS (08/2000)
8:18 --- Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Commemorative Edition, 344 PS (09/2003)
8:18 --- Ferrari F355 (06/1997)
8:20 --- Audi RS6 (2002)
8:22 --- BMW E46 M3 (12/2000)
8:22 --- BMW M Coupe, 321 PS (10/1998)
8:22 --- Mercedes-Benz C55 (07/2004)
8:23 --- Aston Martin DB7 GT (2003)
8:23 --- Porsche 996 Carrera 4
8:24 --- Subaru Impreza WRX STi (2004)
8:25 --- Audi RS4 375 HP
8:25 --- Callaway Corvette C12
8:25 --- Mitsubishi Carisma GT Evo VI (11/1999)
8:25 --- Mitsubishi Carisma GT Evo VII (11/2002)
8:26 --- Mercedes-Benz SLK 32 AMG (05/2001)
8:26 --- Nissan 350Z (2003)
8:28 --- BMW M5, 400 PS(also confirmed by Motor Commodore magazine, 2000)
8:28 --- Nissan Skyline GT-R, 277 PS
8:28 --- Porsche 993 Carrera 2
8:29 --- Mercedes-Benz CLK 55 AMG (05/2000)
8:29 --- Audi S4 4.2 Avant (11/2003)
8:30 --- Maserati Coupé Cambiocorsa (10/2002)
8:31 --- Ferrari F355 GTS, 380 PS
8:32 --- BMW M Roadster, 321 PS (09/1997)
8:32 --- BMW Z4 3.0 SMG (05/2003)
8:32 --- Porsche Boxster S
8:32 --- Volkswagen Golf R32
8:34 --- Acura NSX, 276 PS
8:34 --- BMW Z3 Coupé 3.0i, 231 PS (04/2001)
8:35 --- BMW M3 Coupe, 321 PS
8:35 --- Brabus-Mercedes Benz C V8 Sportcoupé (02/2002)
8:36 --- BMW E36 M3 EVO, 321 PS
8:36 --- Alpina-BMW B3 3.3 Coupé (07/1999)
8:37 --- Maserati 3200GT (2002)
8:37 --- Mercedes-Benz C32 AMG (09/2001)
8:37 --- Nissan Skyline GT-R V-Spec, 350 PS
8:37 --- Subaru Impreza GT Turbo
8:37 --- Honda NSX 3.0 (07/1991)
8:38 --- Honda NSX 3.2 (08/1997)
8:38 --- Mercedes-Benz SL500 (12/2001)
8:38 --- Porsche 996 Carrera, 296 PS
8:38 --- Brabus-Mercedes Benz CLK 5.8 (12/1998)
8:39 --- Honda S2000 (01/2000)
8:39 --- Morgan Aero 8 (04/2003)
8:40 --- Holden GTS, on an in and out lap (2000)
8:40 --- Chevrolet Corvette C5 Targa Automatic (07/1997)
8:41 --- Aston Martin DB7 (1999)
8:41 --- Audi S3, 210 PS (06/1999)
8:42 --- Audi S4, 265 PS (08/1998)
8:42 --- Lotus Exige (11/2000)
8:43 --- Honda Integra Type-R (12/2000)
8:44 --- Chevrolet Corvette C5
8:45 --- Chevrolet Corvette, 339 PS, automatic
8:46 --- Porsche 993 Carrera S, 285 PS
8:47 --- Honda Civic Type-R, 200 PS (11/2001)
8:49 --- Jaguar XKR Coupe (07/1998)
8:49 --- Renault Clio Sport V6
8:49 --- Audi TT 1.8T quattro Coupé, 225 PS (11/1998)
8:51 --- Mercedes Benz C43 AMG (02/1998)
8:52 --- Mercedes Benz CLK 430
8:58 --- Lotus Esprit Turbo SE (07/1991)
9:09 --- Volkswagen Golf V6 4Motion

Everything above the $40,000 dollar Chevrolet Corvette C6 costs more than $100,000.

And Top Gear Stig Track Times...

1 min 19.0 secs - Radical SR-3 Turbo H22A
1 min 19.8 secs - Porsche Carrera GT
1 min 20.9 secs - Mercedes-Benz McLaren SLR
1 min 21.9 secs - Ford GT
1 min 22.3 secs - Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale
1 min 22.3 secs - Porsche 911 GT3 RS
1 min 22.6 secs - Westfield XTR-2
1 min 23.7 secs - Lamborghini Murcielago (2nd run)
1 min 23.8 secs - Pagani Zonda C12-S
1 min 23.9 secs - Koenigsegg CC8S
1 min 24.0 secs - Ariel Atom
1 min 25.0 secs - Caterham R400
1 min 25.0 secs - Noble M12 GTO-3
1 min 26.0 secs - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII MR FQ-320
1 min 26.8 secs - Chevrolet Corvette C6
1 min 27.0 secs - TVR T350C "Sagaris"
1 min 27.3 secs - Spyker C8
1 min 28.0 secs - BMW M3 CSL (Dry/Damp)
1 min 28.2 secs - Lotus Elise Sport 190
1 min 28.7 secs - MTM Bimoto
1 min 28.9 secs - Mitsubishi EVO VIII FQ-300
1 min 29.0 secs - Lamborghini Murcielago
1 min 29.0 secs - Mercedes-Benz CL65 AMG
1 min 29.0 secs - BMW-Alpina Z8
1 min 29.4 secs - AS One
1 min 29.4 secs - Subaru Impreza WRX STi WR1
1 min 30.1 secs - Subaru Impreza Sti Type-UK PPP
1 min 30.4 secs - Aston Martin DB7 GT
1 min 30.9 secs - Audi S4
1 min 31.3 secs - Vauxhall VX220 Turbo
1 min 31.8 secs - BMW M3
1 min 31.8 secs - Mazda RX-8
1 min 31.8 secs - Nissan 350Z
1 min 32.5 secs - Lotus Esprit
1 min 33.3 secs - Volkswagen Golf R32
1 min 33.7 secs - MG ZT260
1 min 33.8 secs - Ford Focus RS (32.2secs)
1 min 35.0 secs - Volvo S60-R
1 min 35.6 secs - Alfa Romeo 147 GTA
1 min 38.0 secs - Honda Civic Type-R
1 min 39.0 secs - Subaru Impreza WRX

Let these times speak for you... The proof is here, for both sides of the debate. However, the Vette is rather high on the list, mixed in with those really expensive cars...
 
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