Wet/Dry Line Working in GT6

[LVracerGT]

So I was just in a room with a few buddies (MotortrendMitch and iamsupernasty) and it started raining while messing around at Ascari. We started testing intermediate and wet tires having not run them in GT6 yet.

It reached 100% wet track so I decided to do some wet/dry line testing. I ran one lap on the dry line then one lap on the wet line. For those of you who may not be aware of the wet line, it's when you run a car length wide to find tarmac without rubber build up to find grip in the wet.

So lap 1 dry line - 1.36.xxx
Lap 1 wet line - 1.33.xxx
Lap 2 dry line - 1.35.xxx
Lap 2 wet line - 1.33.xxx

It seems running a car width wide in the wet actually provides more grip lowering the lap time, as it would in real life. You an actually feel the grip difference between the two lines after doing some more messing around going between the wet/dry lines.

 

[andy0a]

So all in all, GT6 has done a good job in terms of realism with wet and dry track simulations. Too bad they made the rain look like somebody is air drying the pacific ocean on your windshield.

 

[Snake55wildcat]

Definitely, its great to see it actually works (and really well at that) this time, although I found it out in the completely opposite way you did.

I was in the Brands-Hatch 15-lap event, began raining at around laps 7-12, the AI began pitting for wets while I stayed out (partly because I didnt have wet tires on my stock Mitsu FTO Touring Car) and I was able to drive fine in the dry line while testing out the wet line, finding out it indeed worked just as in real life.

I was actually pretty amazed by this

 

[mohitraina91]

This happened in GT5 too. Used it to help me out on a WRS time trial.

 

[I'm Motarded]

excellent news

 

[Johnnypenso]

That is great news. Now delete this thread and keep it quiet

 

[Zuel]

The effects of the fast line in the WET which is off the racing line going into a turn is more apparent. You can see the dry line coming in as well pending on you view.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Hang on, the wet line is not specific to just going a car length wide... Ideally, there's an entire art to wet racing.


Sure, there's more grip off of the racing line, but that doesn't mean that you need to be off of the racing line. In high-speed corners (Eau Rouge, etc) it's still faster to be on the fastest line.


For example, in one of the license tests, the fastest line through the Parabolica at Spa Francorchamps is actually to brake late so that the car runs extra wide (against the outside edge of the track) and then rotate the car and get back on the throttle for a faster entry and exit.


Basically, when the track is wet, the only thing you can do is optimize your straightline speed at all costs.




That said, the dry/wet lines were different in GT5 as well, I tested it in the Jr. Karts in the wet at every weather change track. Much more grip on the wet line.

 

[GolimLongshanks]

...
For example, in one of the license tests, the fastest line through the Parabolica at Spa Francorchamps is actually to brake late so that the car runs extra wide (against the outside edge of the track) and then rotate the car and get back on the throttle for a faster entry and exit.

Ah! The Mansell line.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Ah! The Mansell line.

@BanditKarter22 showed me that... By his ghost car... I'm a copy cat... Ever since WMA karts...

 

[PsuPepperoni]

Edit: someone already posted this

For those of you who may not be aware of the wet line, it's when you run a car length wide to find tarmac without rubber build up to find grip in the wet.

I don't know much about lines but in the wet license test at Spa, I did notice that a wide line on the sharp turns was a whole lot faster.

 

[Nielsen]

So all in all, GT6 has done a good job in terms of realism with wet and dry track simulations. Too bad they made the rain look like somebody is air drying the pacific ocean on your windshield.

I have noticed that sports tires have more grip on slightly wet surfaces than they do on dry surfaces. This might apply to comfort and racing tires too but I haven't tested that. Anyway, is that realistic?

 

[andy0a]

I have noticed that sports tires have more grip on slightly wet surfaces than they do on dry surfaces. This might apply to comfort and racing tires too but I haven't tested that. Anyway, is that realistic?

I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not, but I haven't raced a car while the track was wet, I kinda want to not die so I can't tell you my real life experience of that . The OP said applying wet driving techniques works as it would in real life, but the assumption is that driving wet makes you drive slower (Top Gear, star in a reasonably priced car).

Water forms a second surface, basically like running on ice. Thats why racing slicks are banned for street use, the grooves on street tires is to funnel water out, but racing slicks are smooth, so its like taping butter to your shoes and then running on thin ice, dangerous.

Short answer, I'm not qualified enough to answer than information, maybe the game isn't realistic enough.

 

[Nielsen]

I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not, but I haven't raced a car while the track was wet, I kinda want to not die so I can't tell you my real life experience of that . The OP said applying wet driving techniques works as it would in real life, but the assumption is that driving wet makes you drive slower (Top Gear, star in a reasonably priced car).

Water forms a second surface, basically like running on ice. Thats why racing slicks are banned for street use, the grooves on street tires is to funnel water out, but racing slicks are smooth, so its like taping butter to your shoes and then running on thin ice, dangerous.

Short answer, I'm not qualified enough to answer than information, maybe the game isn't realistic enough.

No sarcasm, I was just offering a possible counter-argument on PD doing a good job on the surface simulation. So, my question still stands.

 

[andy0a]

No sarcasm, I was just offering a possible counter-argument on PD doing a good job on the surface simulation. So, my question still stands.

I've been lauding GT6 in a couple threads, so I might as well list out the negatives as well.

The wet tracks look a bit trashy, GT5 did a better job, and tuning is broken at times. Sometimes its the reverse settings that make it work, when the information tells you otherwise.

MR cars are not hard to control, but their difficulty in driving has been exaggerated at times.

Getting to your point on track simulations,

So all in all, GT6 has done a good job in terms of realism with wet and dry track simulations. Too bad they made the rain look like somebody is air drying the pacific ocean on your windshield.

What I said was not a confirmation of fact, it was simply a continuing sentence. But what I have noticed is that the rumble strips and the slight edges of grass make you lose grip like crazy, IRL this would never happen. Sure some grip is lost, but spinning out on touching a blade of grass on a 45mph hairpin? Nah.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

@andy0a, nope nope nope. The tuning settings are correct in GT6. They were backwards in GT5.


Driving in the wet will slow down every reaction the car makes - brakes, turn-in, and the acceleration will likely make the car lose grip.


Touching curbs and grass in the wet will cause a spin 9 out of 10 times, in real life.


I used to race on racing slicks in the wet in real life. It's ridiculously difficult to slow down... The brakes make no difference. Touching the curbs will cause you to spin. Accelerating too hard will cause you to spin... If you touch wet grass, even at 3 km/h, there's no grip.


So, yes, in fact, the physics in GT6 feel accurate in rain.



But, I can't use the interior view due to the poor visibility, so I know nothing about the visual rain effects.

 

[andy0a]

All right thx for the input man, the more I hear about how accurate GT6 is, the better I feel playing it.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

All right thx for the input man, the more I hear about how accurate GT6 is, the better I feel playing it.

It's not. In many other ways, it's not fully realistic. In the important ways, it is... But I still prefer it to other racing games because GT6 has more of an atmosphere. A racing circuit changes every single lap. You can never have two laps that are exactly the same in every way in real life, outside of maybe Bristol or Brands Hatch Indy... It's because the atmosphere changes. Sun, wind, clouds, rain, etc. will change the atmosphere.

 

[Nielsen]

Driving in the wet will slow down every reaction the car makes - brakes, turn-in, and the acceleration will likely make the car lose grip.

As I said, in GT6 slightly wet surfaces seem to increase grip during accleration. Using the new Pagani, I noticed that I could floor the acclerator earlier with 10% surface water than I could on dry surfaces, using sports hard tyres in both cases. By "earlier" I refer to avoid spinning. In short, your post seems to confirm what I suspect to be a simulation flaw.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

As I said, in GT6 slightly wet surfaces seem to increase grip during accleration. Using the new Pagani, I noticed that I could floor the acclerator earlier with 10% surface water than I could on dry surfaces, using sports hard tyres in both cases. By "earlier" I refer to avoid spinning.

That makes no sense, according to physics. The tire's grip is optimized when it's in contact directly with the pavement/concrete, and anything that comes between those two will reduce the grip, regardless of the amount.


Surprisingly, most racing drivers will say that the worst grip reduction (or most dangerous or something) is when there's only drips on the road, not full lakes... I think it means because the drivers are caught unaware...

 

[andy0a]

That makes no sense, according to physics. The tire's grip is optimized when it's in contact directly with the pavement/concrete, and anything that comes between those two will reduce the grip, regardless of the amount.


Surprisingly, most racing drivers will say that the worst grip reduction (or most dangerous or something) is when there's only drips on the road, not full lakes... I think it means because the drivers are caught unaware...

Thats where his question of realism comes into play. So of course they call it a driving simulation, but its still a game, there's possibly certain aspects of the game where it doesn't play out true to life.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Like mentioned, GT5 had the same effect.
Pretty cool actually.

 

[SavageEvil]

...
Surprisingly, most racing drivers will say that the worst grip reduction (or most dangerous or something) is when there's only drips on the road, not full lakes... I think it means because the drivers are caught unaware...

Actually that is relatively true even on public roads, when it first starts to rain traction is greatly reduced and you can lose control of everyday cars quite easily. Light rain that doesn't completely soak the road tends to bring up dirt and dust and oil particulates embedded in the asphalt creating less surface area for the grippy tires to contact the asphalt. I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only who has experienced this while driving, right?!?

I've actually watched a car go into an oversteer going at low speeds on a public road because of a light dusting of rain, what was crazy was how slow it was moving when the oversteer spin out happened. Rear drive Crown Victoria, it was a taxi lol.

 

[sporkface69]

I'm not sold on this. IRL the reason they run off line is to keep the tires cool, and even then they only to it on straights. The racing line is still the fastest through turns.

^^^ And I've done that in my Mustang SavageEvil. The road was just barely moist, but when I made the right turn to get on the on-ramp my backend stepped out on me. I was only doing like 20mph! Had a nice little "Oh SHI-" moment

 

[andy0a]

I'm not sold on this. IRL the reason they run off line is to keep the tires cool, and even then they only to it on straights. The racing line is still the fastest through turns.

^^^ And I've done that in my Mustang SavageEvil. The road was just barely moist, but when I made the right turn to get on the on-ramp my backend stepped out on me. I was only doing like 20mph! Had a nice little "Oh SHI-" moment

Yeah if I mess up on the track, I can't really press start and click restart, I'm left to bask in my failure and reflect on my actions while facing backwards off the track.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

@sporkface69 No. The reason cars go off-line on the straights is indeed to cool wet tires on a dry track... By going through the puddles at the side of a track that are not dry...



On a fully wet track, it's faster to go off-line (wet line) in corners. On a dry track, the dry line is fastest.

Apply logic.

 

[Bigbazz]

Using Formula 1 as an example

They go off line in the wet to maximise the turning radius and reduce wheelspin, if the car is taking as wide a line as possible it can carry more speed without spinning up those tyres, similar to a go-karting line. But if we're talking a semi wet track where a dry'er line is forming they will use that line and only go off it to cool the tyres. If enough water is being moved to create some form of racing line then it will be faster, if they are in intermediates in F1 then this is almost always the case, the wide wet line go-karting style is usually when the rain is so heavy they have to use full wets.

Perfect example was Silverstone 2012 and Fernando Alonso's qualifying lap, no hitting apex's he just went smooth as butter taking the safe wide line around the track.

 

[Falango]

Edit: someone already posted this


I don't know much about lines but in the wet license test at Spa, I did notice that a wide line on the sharp turns was a whole lot faster.

I noticed this too, and got gold pretty easily on the first try. I had another go and took a tighter line, but I couldn't hold it with as much speed.

 

[sporkface69]

@sporkface69 No. The reason cars go off-line on the straights is indeed to cool wet tires on a dry track... By going through the puddles at the side of a track that are not dry...



On a fully wet track, it's faster to go off-line (wet line) in corners. On a dry track, the dry line is fastest.

Apply logic.

How about you apply some logic?

On a fully wet track the racing line is going to be wet enough for rain tires to work with out overheating. There will be less standing water on the racing line which will help to avoid aquaplaning and give you more grip since there's less water in between the tires and the racing surface. Just like on the road in the wet you follow in the tire tracks of the car in front of you because that will give you more grip. I learned that all the way back in Drivers Ed.

Yes, you might take a little bit different line, but you'll still hit your clipping points just the same.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

The reason you can't hold the speed on the inside is the rubber. Rubber doesn't grip wet rubber. Rubber grips dry rubber.


Has anyone ever tried to hold a wet bar of soap? Slippery? Then a dry bar of soap? Sticky?

Same effect. Running on a race track in the dry, you'll fall before you slide - the rubber on the track even offers grip for running shoes. But, when it's wet, it's very slippery to walk on, too. Wet rubber offers surprisingly little grip.


The optimal angle around a corner includes an apex no matter what. However, the ideal apex will change as the grip levels change. On a wet track, the apex is still there, but the line is different, meaning that the apex (geometric center of corner) is also different.


It's not about the line itself. I can carry more speed via the apex on a dry track because it involves taking less time to travel more distance. Velocity is d/t (distance divided by time.) Traveling more distance in less time will always make you the race winner. The inside of the corner is less distance, the outside is more speed. Mixing the two together on a dry circuit normally leads to winning the race...


But on a wet circuit, the speed on the outside (more grip) far outweighs the advantage in distance traveled.