What are you paying for fuel? **NOT AN AMERICA HAS CHEAP FUEL THREAD**

[VA10]

anything between £1.12 and £1.15

 

[mustangGT90210]

I've already seen and heard the rolling argument over the volume comparison between US gallons and the litres that the rest of the world uses. the standing argument is that because america buys by a bigger volume, they have cheaper fuel prices.

apparently, metric users can't get it through their head that a US gallon is America's equivalent, in fuel, of the rest of the world's litre, as viewed from US eyes. remember that!

americans buy fuel by the money amount, rather than by volume. i assume most people don't know how big their tank is, just how much spare change after bills they have to keep a vehicle rolling. even in this day and age of four bucks a gallon, people still buy 5 or 10 Bucks worth only...which is enough to get them to work, rather than bother to buy so many gallons worth. they're only concerned with getting back and forth to work. only constant runners, like myself, tend to buy gallons worth.

when it hit 3.65, even I stopped topping up my tank. I've had to repeatedly tell clients, now, that I cannot run places at or below a certian fuel tank volume for the little bit of cash they DO have. feeding 6-10 kids and making 1000 dollar plus monthly payments on their properties keeps their cash short, and this without any OTHER major bills to pay.

I think the rest of the world tends to forget the vast distances the Americas have to put up with between places, and the large gaps that exist between filling stations, as places are abandoned or absorbed by huge companies and downsized.
note that I said AMERICAS, here. I don't know how Canadians do it.

public transportation in the US is rather thin. our trains, for example, are almost entirely oriented to hauling bulk cargo around. aircraft usage has pared down due to attrition of companies and the annoying saftey BS we now have to go through thanks to a bunch of religous purists. this only leaves buses, and those were expensive to begin with.

a freindly reminder to europeans that in the US, Deisels still have a "stinky, noisy fuel hog" reputation, and will have for some time, bio-deisel and low-sulphur nonwithstanding.

QFT!

I would love to have a form of public transportation to get me to some places, but the closest county bus stop is about 10 miles from my house.

Yes, read it closely, a county bus, not a city bus.

 

[YSSMAN]

Get over it guys, seriously. High fuel costs are here to stay, and like it or not, we deserve to pay more money for something that should have been more expensive in the first place. Certainly our government has played a very large role in securing oil futures, take a good look at the history of Iran or Saudi Arabia and you see a very large American and British presence for the majority of the previous century. Oil is cheap because we made it that way, but with demands increasing further in India and China while we rested on the idea that oil would never rise... We have been caught completely off guard. We don't have the refineries to produce the oil that we continue to bring in.

Talk to your congressmen and women, they're the ones that might be able to do something. That, or make a better decision when it comes to your vehicle of choice. I could care less where you live or what you need your vehicle for, there are probably better choices out there.

If not, you can always walk or ride a bike...

It makes me absolutely sick hearing all of the bellyaching from all of these Americans about how "bad" fuel prices are. Adjust your finances properly or don't drive as much.

I may come off mean, but I don't really care. Sure, it sucks to spend $55 to fill up the Celica when my first tank of gas with the Fox was $17, but times have changed. We still pay MORE per gallon for soda pop, fruit juice, energy drinks... and hell, WATER, than we do gasoline.

Its supply vs demand. Supply has remained the same. You want lower fuel prices? Decrease the demand.

 

[Joey D]

You do realise that many people can't adjust their driving or finances right? I would be more then happy to take a bus or a train but they don't exist so I have to drive a car. I bought the most fuel efficient vehicle I could, which nets me around 40mpg. I still drive 400+ miles a week with commuting and other around town things. Also it's not practical for most people just to up and buy a new vehicle, I bought the Blazer when fuel was $1.20 a gallon and that was only 5 years ago.

Americans are feeling the rise in fuel prices more then ever since it wasn't gradual and we weren't conditioned for a huge influx in a short amount of time.

 

[Tornado]

And because most people have no foresight at all, high fuel prices hit a lot of Americans at a time when SUV and track sales were still high.



What I do wonder about, however, is assuming fuel prices still rise, what will happen to fuel reliant businesses? For example, will trucking be replaced with light rail like it used to be?

 

[GT4 genius]

Diesel prices here seem to be soring : week 1 €1.28/litre
week 2 €1.31/litre
week 3 €1.34/litre

Week 4 €1.38/litre
Week 5 (this week) €1.43/litre

But petrol only rose 1 cent in this time to €1.29/litre, so we're probably getting very close to a scenario were most petrol cars will be as economical as diesels.

 

[Joey D]

And because most people have no foresight at all, high fuel prices hit a lot of Americans at a time when SUV and track sales were still high.



What I do wonder about, however, is assuming fuel prices still rise, what will happen to fuel reliant businesses? For example, will trucking be replaced with light rail like it used to be?

It would make sense to ship stuff over rails but it seems like a lot of areas have abandoned the train. I would wager it's much cheaper to ship something via the railroad then over the road on a semi now. I know Honda has that commercial with that train that's better then the Hybrid Civic or something. I don't know much about trains, maybe someone who does can fill me in...I have in my head Jim Prower knows.

 

[V1P3R]

two things...

Businesses will probably raise their prices first. As for Light rail (I'm assuming trains?) around here it's not really as possible anymore because they started removing a lot of the tracks or there are businesses that aren't old enough to have used light rail here.

 

[YSSMAN]

You do realise that many people can't adjust their driving or finances right?

Depends on the person. My Dad blows more money than anyone I know on going out to eat and otherwise unnecessary trips with the Avalanche. He cuts them out, he doesn't have to worry about $120 fuel fill-ups anymore. Simply put, people can say "its not my fault I live an hour away from work" when it clearly is. Over and over and over again people have shot themselves in the foot with stuff like this. I never have to travel further than eight miles from home unless I'm visiting friends or family, and even then, it is only a short distance from work or school... Its not a luxury of living in the city, because I definitely live in the suburbs, but the lack of planning on behalf of the local governments, people with their vehicle choices, and people's outright hatred of public transportation has finally caught up with us.

Welcome to the real world, its a beautiful place.

===

Shipping train vs truck:

It'll likely happen eventually. God knows what Wal*Mart will do since they've relied on shipping forever... Their "mobile warehouse" of sorts. Those prices are going to have to roll-back up, and *gasp* maybe people will realize that its better to buy locally-grown produce and other products.

I may be biased, but Meijer FTW...

 

[V1P3R]

Public Trans here is called Poor Trans. That might change soon. xD

There is no Meijer over here... I keep hearing about them though.

 

[YSSMAN]

Grand Rapids has one of the 10 Best public transportation systems in the United States, and although ridership is up, it still isn't used very well. I could easily take the bus to school in the morning, but because it takes longer, I choose not to. That and I have to deal with people...

===

Meijer, I believe, is centered mostly in the Mid-West. They go as far south as Kentucky, and as far west as Iowa (I believe). I think they've got them in Pennsylvania as well these days...

 

[kikie]

I'm wondering if you have Liquefied petroleum gas (also called LPG, LP Gas, or autogas) in the US?

It is still relatively cheap compared to gasoline.

 

[Joey D]

We have propane but we use it to run our BBQ's, not our cars. And it doesn't seem all that much cheaper here since, I think to fill out BBQ tanks it's like $30 a piece...although I have no idea what sort mileage you could get on it.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Grand Rapids has one of the 10 Best public transportation systems in the United States, and although ridership is up, it still isn't used very well. I could easily take the bus to school in the morning, but because it takes longer, I choose not to. That and I have to deal with people...

And that's why people don't use public transportation.

I'm wondering if you have Liquefied petroleum gas (also called LPG, LP Gas, or autogas) in the US?

It is still relatively cheap compared to gasoline.

I saw some pickup trucks on campus that use LPG, so yes. I don't know where they go for refills though.

 

[kikie]

I just found this list. It's in Dutch but with a little imagination and comon sense, you can figure out what it means. I translated some words.

It's a list with all the current prices in Europe.

 

[V1P3R]

I could easily take the bus to school in the morning, but because it takes longer, I choose not to. That and I have to deal with people...

Don't go to school anymore, but I did try to take public trans one time. The only reason light rail is good because you don't have to deal with parking at school which was $200 a semester (not assured a space). There were no people to deal with really because there wasn't anybody rich taking it.



Driving

To school = 15min.
From school = 15min.



Public trans

- To school

45 min - 1 hr.



- From school

1hr. 15min. Light rail + drive back home

or

almost 2 hrs. via 2 bus transfers + half mile bike or walk home from stop (before light rail)

 

[Casio]

We have propane but we use it to run our BBQ's, not our cars. And it doesn't seem all that much cheaper here since, I think to fill out BBQ tanks it's like $30 a piece...although I have no idea what sort mileage you could get on it.

It's extremely prominent here in Australia. Pretty much any large vehicle that does massive miles is on LPG. The entire taxi fleet for example. It's really, really cheap, at the moment Petrol is $1.60L while LPG is 60c/L. Mileage is about 10%-20% less than Petrol, but the cost still ends significantly cheaper.

The expensive thing used to be putting it in your car, which was a $3000+ conversion. Now the government actually subsidises it if you get it, in an attempt to get more people to convert, $2000 on new systems. So you're only about $1000 out of pocket.

 

[Jay]

I'm wondering if you have Liquefied petroleum gas (also called LPG, LP Gas, or autogas) in the US?

It is still relatively cheap compared to gasoline.

LPG here in Canada (propane) is more expensive than when I am home in Australia, before currency conversion. From memory I saw it at only one place for 70 or so cents per litre ($CAN)

Mileage is about 10%-20% less than Petrol,

I will run out and get a conversion right away the moment I see that for myself.

 

[Tornado]

Now the government actually subsidises it if you get it, in an attempt to get more people to convert, $2000 on new systems. So you're only about $1000 out of pocket.

So the government is subsidizing people off of a currently limited, non-renewable and rabidly shrinking natural resource onto a different currently limited, non-renewable and rabidly shrinking natural resource?
Better than ethanol.

 

[Jay]

So the government is subsidizing people off of a currently limited, non-renewable and rabidly shrinking natural resource onto a different currently limited, non-renewable and rabidly shrinking natural resource?

Yep, thats right. Australians constant complaining about fuel price rises (like much of the world) prompted the government to subsidise Gas conversions (LPG) on 6 cylinder and larger cars, which promted the conversions to mysterically increase in price.....

Interesting thing though is currently LPG is fairly cheap because the government is in a type of contract which restricts taxes on LPG. In a couple years this expires and LPG prices will take a sharp rise with the new taxes.

 

[Philly]

americans buy fuel by the money amount, rather than by volume.

Credit cards? I rarely hear of people paying cash for fuel anymore. It's also cheaper to top the tank off every time you fill up because a gallon bought now is a gallon you don't have to buy later saving you 10-20 cents.

And because most people have no foresight at all, high fuel prices hit a lot of Americans at a time when SUV and track sales were still high.

And the crazy thing is that people are still buying SUVs despite the fuel prices. Sure sales are down, but that means the big three are still moving them off the lots.

It would make sense to ship stuff over rails but it seems like a lot of areas have abandoned the train. I would wager it's much cheaper to ship something via the railroad then over the road on a semi now. I know Honda has that commercial with that train that's better then the Hybrid Civic or something. I don't know much about trains, maybe someone who does can fill me in...I have in my head Jim Prower knows.

It seems that most things are shipped by train already, at least from my experience. Here, everything either comes from the port from the sea or by train from over the mountains. And a lot of things coming from Asia land on the West coast then get taken by train to wherever. Plus it makes more sense to ship huge quantities of things by train than a truck convoy.

Depends on the person. My Dad blows more money than anyone I know on going out to eat and otherwise unnecessary trips with the Avalanche. He cuts them out, he doesn't have to worry about $120 fuel fill-ups anymore. Simply put, people can say "its not my fault I live an hour away from work" when it clearly is. Over and over and over again people have shot themselves in the foot with stuff like this. I never have to travel further than eight miles from home unless I'm visiting friends or family, and even then, it is only a short distance from work or school... Its not a luxury of living in the city, because I definitely live in the suburbs, but the lack of planning on behalf of the local governments, people with their vehicle choices, and people's outright hatred of public transportation has finally caught up with us.

You can't blame this at all on where people bought their homes. If you buy a house, you are going to live there for a while. And I'm sure the vast majority of Americans who live far outside the city bought their homes long enough ago so that fuel costs weren't an issue but recently enough that they can't just pack up and move to a condo in downtown. True, lots of people are booking it to within walking distance of the city center, but more are "stuck" far outside. And plus, the people who live a long ways away are the kinds of people who can afford to pay for that commute anyway.

Those prices are going to have to roll-back up, and *gasp* maybe people will realize that its better to buy locally-grown produce and other products.

This makes me wonder what'll happen to the agricultural industry. They are pretty remotely placed and pretty dependent on fossil fuels. I'm wondering if we'll start to see food prices go way up with gas prices and maybe the economy will start nose-diving even faster than it is already.

Grand Rapids has one of the 10 Best public transportation systems in the United States, and although ridership is up, it still isn't used very well. I could easily take the bus to school in the morning, but because it takes longer, I choose not to. That and I have to deal with people...

We have mass transit in Western Michigan? I think I've seen three buses and two bus stops in Holland, and those might be charter-like things anyway. I wouldn't expect GR to have anything more than a half-arsed bus network. Either you're wishfully thinking or that's REALLY saying something about US public transportation.

Another reason not to take the bus? The experience is dreadful. There are so many loonies on there and the bus is so dirty and uncomfortable that most of us would rather pay the extra cost to avoid it. That and buses certainly aren't the most reliable form of transit. If I could hop on a train and get anywhere in the city and not have to worry about a terribly uncomfortable experience, I would be more than happy.

In gas price news, I noticed that ARCO is giving 10 cent/gallon discounts for people who pay cash.

 

[buickgnx88]

Rather than complaining about normal people using alot of fuel, couldn't we complain about the numerous motorsports that use fuel-powered vehicles to compete for cash and a name on the news?

 

[Jay]

Which is really a grain of sand at a beach in comparison.

 

[YSSMAN]

And plus, the people who live a long ways away are the kinds of people who can afford to pay for that commute anyway.

You'd think so, right? I know people who drive from Muskeegon to Grand Rapids for work everyday, and I don't understand why. Especially when housing is readily available here...

Its something thats going to have to end for quite a few people very, very soon.

We have mass transit in Western Michigan?

The Rapid won an award for its service in 2004 or 2005, and has been ranked pretty well in the system since. They're all very nice, very clean buses that run on time... We even have Hybrid and fuel-cell ones (I think?). I just don't like having to wait...

 

[Encyclopedia]

Luckily, here in gothenburg we've got trams and plenty of buses and it all works very well.
Sure there's a loon here and there on the trams but they're usualy at the back. But as long as they aren't violent or threatening, it's not really an excuse not to use public transport, IMHO of course.

 

[Sniffs]

Kikie: yup, in the US, LP is reserved for fleet vehicles...and ONE americanized Mondeo I see on a regular basis. unfortunatly, Big Oil has a hold now on even natural gas wells.

Philly: pfft *laughs for five minutes*
half the credit access machines built into the pumps don't work. no, people pay WITH CASH. just thismorning, someone put 10 bucks worth in...2.5 gallons, enough to get to work. here, the property payments and bills have priority over everything.

and,m no...people will only spend so much money. no-one BUT me fills up their tank. they put enough in to get to work. period. besides, the price goes up a nickle every week at the minimum. and, if your like me, you burn a tank of gas every day or two, and I mean a full 16-20 gallons.

 

[Danoff]

I pumped $3.20/gal premium gas the other day. That's a new high for me.

I pumped $4.30/gal premium gas (~91 octane) the other day. That's a new high for me.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Philly: pfft *laughs for five minutes*
half the credit access machines built into the pumps don't work. no, people pay WITH CASH. just thismorning, someone put 10 bucks worth in...2.5 gallons, enough to get to work. here, the property payments and bills have priority over everything.

Maybe that's how it is out there. But every credit card payment thing I used was working.

 

[Joey D]

Rather than complaining about normal people using alot of fuel, couldn't we complain about the numerous motorsports that use fuel-powered vehicles to compete for cash and a name on the news?

They don't use very much fuel at all, while it is wasteful, it has no effect on global prices. Also vehicles are starting to switch to bio-fuels...the Audis are doing it as far as I know.

Petrol has dropped, $3.99 for regular. Diesel is still lingering around $4.99.

There was an article on Autoblog that said the hurricane season could drive prices up to $6.00 a gallon. That means I would be looking at about $70 to fill up my car . I would be looking at about $300 a month in fuel with the amount of driving I would do.

 

[Keef]

We have propane but we use it to run our BBQ's, not our cars. And it doesn't seem all that much cheaper here since, I think to fill out BBQ tanks it's like $30 a piece...although I have no idea what sort mileage you could get on it.

The only real automotive application for propane I know of is boosting diesels. Who needs nitrous oxide when you've got...propane.