What car should I buy?

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And we continue...

F1 engines that are required to have 4 valves/cyl and displace 2.4 L or less form a perfect analogy for engines that are required to pass emissions and run for more than 100,000 miles with minimal servicing.
Cause an F1 engine would blow up after a few hours of running under 4,000rpms like normal engines right?

We should stop, it's becoming an pushrod vs dohc debate, and this is not the place to do it.👎
 
I got a 98' Trans Am for 8k. It has an LS1 and is strong as a bull. Say what you want but it is a very reliable engine. Don't rag on it just cuz you hate America for no reason. It's a very good car if you want fast for little money. The only down fall for it is that it requires premium gas and guzzles it fast.
 
You mean because it won't blow it up? Yeah, I guess it's better to NOT melt your pistons, if you're not really into that, but it's just recommended...
 
In a lot of cars that say premium fuel only you can get away with putting regular or mid grade in with little or no issues. All it does is decrease the performance of the engine.

But really with premium, it's only 20 cents more per gallon, and if you have a 15 gallon tank, that's only 3 more dollars to fill up your tank. That's not all that bad.
 
In a lot of cars that say premium fuel only you can get away with putting regular or mid grade in with little or no issues. All it does is decrease the performance of the engine.

But really with premium, it's only 20 cents more per gallon, and if you have a 15 gallon tank, that's only 3 more dollars to fill up your tank. That's not all that bad.

Exactly. Even my Probe recommends premium. At first I put premium in there but now I just put mid-grade - I have no need to zip all around the place.
 
In a lot of cars that say premium fuel only you can get away with putting regular or mid grade in with little or no issues. All it does is decrease the performance of the engine.

But really with premium, it's only 20 cents more per gallon, and if you have a 15 gallon tank, that's only 3 more dollars to fill up your tank. That's not all that bad.
You REALLY need to do your homework. Ever heard of a compression ratio? Yeah, you can get away with it if you don't rev it or open the throttle at all, and it's constantly cold where you live...but that's like buying a PS2 and just playing Fantavision your whole life instead of buying other games. You paid for more performance, now you're going to make it so you can't use it?

'Ping.'
Google it.
 
You REALLY need to do your homework. Ever heard of a compression ratio? Yeah, you can get away with it if you don't rev it or open the throttle at all, and it's constantly cold where you live...but that's like buying a PS2 and just playing Fantavision your whole life instead of buying other games. You paid for more performance, now you're going to make it so you can't use it?

'Ping.'
Google it.
Unless your car doesn't have a knock sensor, the ECU'll just keep retarding the timing until the pinging goes away.
 
My family has had several premium recommended cars and we rarely would put premium in them. It didn't hurt the car one bit, the computer dumbs down the engine so it doesn't have a malfunction. Hell the Pacifica we have is supposed to have premium put in it, we've own the thing for 3 years and put over 40,000 miles on it and maybe put premium in it every 3 or 4 fill ups. I don't know why the damn thing says it needs premium, it has a crappy engine in it.

Just because you paid for performance doesn't mean you are going to scream around town open throttled the whole time. Some people just don't want to deal with the extra cost.
 
Retarding the ignition can melt your internals, too, ya know. It's meant to be a fail-safe, not a secondary driving mode (though that's changing with new technology). People don't blow engines because their knock sensor is faulty, they blow them because they didn't have enough octane in their fuel. Keep in mind, you're also paying for gas mileage, and retarding the ignition to keep your engine from falling apart is very inefficient. You may also get dieseling after shutting the car off. It shouldn't do that. That's not an option!

If people don't want to deal with the extra cost, then they're getting the wrong car. The only cars that require premium gas are premium models. This can be anything from a top tier trim level (i.e.Probe GT) to a luxury sedan (even non-performance models, like base Bimmers).
 
Your engine will NOT MELT. The difference is not so big. It's not like the fuel is 50 octane or something. I guess race cars running 100+ octane fuel and blow their engines need more octane eh?

It's not that extreme, and if it was, they wouldn't sell anything under an octane rating of 90. Also, if you can afford premium models, then you can afford premium gas, so there's no point in recommending it, when you can just say "only" and people will go for it.

Oh, and my friend runs his 1.6 liter Miata very hard with 89 octane fuel. Half a yea later, his pistons haven't melted. *gasps*

Oh, my cousins 3000GT doesn't have melted pistons after running 87 octane fuel for a couple years.

What a stupid thing to say, especially when millions of people driving on the roads every day show otherwise. Where have you been?

EDIT: I think you've overdone your homework. Get your car, put 87 octane fuel in it, drive around town for a few days, with a couple back road runs. If your engine blows all of a sudden, I'll give you my civic.
 
Do I have to pull out the C/D test of regular and premium fuel again? Really?

Okay, here it is...

Solid evidence that all there is is a bit of a power loss, as most modern vehicles can cope with the lower-ratings of fuel thanks to the on-board computers, knock-sensors, etc. Does that mean that you should? Well, its largely up to whos buying I would suppose...

...I'm not going to fill my Jetta up with premium just because I may gain a few BHP (or maybe not, like the Honda), but generally speaking, I'm not about to go dumping anything except premium fuel in cars like the Camaro, et al...

Like Joey said, the price difference is only a few bucks. You would have to be a huge douche not to buy premium just because its "too expensive," particularly when you just bought a $50K BMW...
 
Where have you been?

Around race cars that blow their engines because they weren't using enough octane.

Dare you DO your homework?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_Rating
And a good paragraph from:
http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=104
Altough detonation can be potentially damaging to an engine, a simple understanding of what it is, and what causes it, will help you stay away from your detonation threshhold. Pay attention to "knock" and pinging noises that come from your engine becuase they could indicate detonation inside the combustion chamber and should be dealt with immediately. If you're looking for a new supercharger system, don't worry too much about detonation - the manufacturers have designed the system for use on your stock engine, and if you follow the manufactuer's fuel recommendations, you will not have a detonation problem. If you ever do notice detonation, perhaps from bad (low octane) gasoline or extremely high air temperatures, just drive with a light foot until you are able to resolve the cause of the problem.
 

EDIT: I think you've overdone your homework. Get your car, put 87 octane fuel in it, drive around town for a few days, with a couple back road runs. If your engine blows all of a sudden, I'll give you my civic.

Lemme go ahead and fill up my Supra with 87 octane... Good idea. Your Civic better be worth $12K so I can get a new motor, head, and valvetrain.
 
Anyone who thinks wikipedia should be brought up in a debate needs to be whacked up side the head. If you want to be taken seriously never, ever, use wikipedia.

But go fill up your Supra (do you really have one?) and see what happens. I bet dollars to donuts the only thing that will happen is a lose of power and that's it. The car won't explode.
 
Around race cars that blow their engines because they weren't using enough octane.

How many cars listed in this thread have been race cars?

Race cars are specially built to ONLY go fast at high RPM. No one drives a street car like that unless they are absolutely stupid.

We buy ROAD cars and drive them around at mostly sedate speeds. Modern electronic systems in your engine make up the difference when you use lower octane, as has already been mentioned.

Take your **** somewhere else man.

Unless you have done some serious work to your Supra, it probably isn't really all that fast anyway compared to these grand race cars you speak of. I drove a twin-turbo Supra and it was about as fast as my friend's M3. So I highly doubt your car would explode unless it's poorly maintained.
 
Troux, did you read the Car and Driver article?

C/D
An engine's tendency to knock is influenced most by its compression ratio, although combustion-chamber design also has a large effect. A higher ratio extracts more power during the expansion stroke, but it also creates higher cylinder pressures and temperatures, which tend to induce knock. In supercharged engines boost pressure behaves the same way. That's why the highest-performance engines require higher-octane fuel.

If you feed such an engine a fuel with insufficient octane, it will knock. Since it is impossible, for now, to change an engine's compression ratio, the only solution is to retard the ignition timing (or reduce boost pressure). Conversely, in some engines designed for regular fuel, you can advance the timing if you burn premium, but whether this will yield additional power varies from engine to engine.
Knock sensors are used in virtually all new GM, Ford, European, and Japanese cars, and most DaimlerChrysler vehicles built today. According to Gottfried Schiller, director of powertrain engineering at Bosch, these block-mounted sensors—one or two of them on most engines and about the size of a quarter—work like tiny seismometers that measure vibration patterns throughout the block to identify knock in any cylinder. Relying on these sensors, the engine controller can keep each cylinder's spark timing advanced right to the hairy edge of knock, providing peak efficiency on any fuel and preventing the damage that knock can do to an engine. But, noted Schiller, only a few vehicles calibrated for regular fuel can advance timing beyond their nominal ideal setting when burning premium.

Older or less sophisticated cars with mechanical distributors do not have the same latitude for timing adjustment as distributorless systems do and therefore may not always be able to correct for insufficient octane or additional octane.

...and...

C/D
Our tests confirm that for most cars there is no compelling reason to buy more expensive fuel than the factory recommends, as any performance gain realized will surely be far less than the percentage hike in price. Cheapskates burning regular in cars designed to run on premium fuel can expect to trim performance by about the same percent they save at the pump. If the car is sufficiently new and sophisticated, it may not suffer any ill effects, but all such skinflints should be ready to switch back to premium at the first sign of knock or other drivability woes. And finally, if a car calibrated for regular fuel begins to knock on anything less than premium or midgrade, owners should invest in a tuneup, emissions-control-system repair, or detergent additives to solve, rather than bandage, the root problem. Class dismissed.

...So you too could learn from doing your homework...
 
There is probably more of a difference between crappy summer gas and the oxygenated winter gas than the 87 and the 89.

Putting 87 in any car is not going to kill your engine, unless you have no knock sensor or a chip or otherwise modified spark curve.
 
Around race cars that blow their engines because they weren't using enough octane.

Dare you DO your homework?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_Rating
And a good paragraph from:
http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=104
OH SNAP! I'd better stop putting 89 octane in my daily driver Civic! All those extreme race level engine temperatures I achieve at 2,000rpms is gonna blow the hell out of my engine!!!

EDIT: You don't use octane, it's just a property of the fuel that you have.

I respect your knowledge of cars, as it's way higher than mine from what I've seen in previous posts, but I have no idea where this came from.
 
I'm not hear to fix stupid, you guys have to do that on your own. Until you've seen a motor blown apart from low octane, don't tell me I can run 87 octane and boost 18 PSI and expect my car to just go a little slower. Christ...
 
I still don't believe you own a Supra, care to show us some pictures?
 
OH SNAP! I'd better stop putting 89 octane in my daily driver Civic! All those extreme race level engine temperatures I achieve at 2,000rpms is gonna blow the hell out of my engine!!!

EDIT: You don't use octane, it's just a property of the fuel that you have.

I respect your knowledge of cars, as it's way higher than mine from what I've seen in previous posts, but I have no idea where this came from.

We all know that Civic race level engines have to be rebuilt every few races too. I bet that's because the engines use fuel with not enough octane.
 
I still don't believe you own a Supra, care to show us some pictures?
He does, there's plenty of pictures of it around gtplanet.

EDIT: @Troux: Now, is your 18psi turbo Supra the same stock, slow, normal non-performance engined car that everyone else drives, or is it closer to the likes of the race cars you are always around that blow because they weren't using enough octane?

EDIT: Wow, are we off topic or what. I sense a close soon, so I'm pulling out.
 
I'm not hear to fix stupid, you guys have to do that on your own. Until you've seen a motor blown apart from low octane, don't tell me I can run 87 octane and boost 18 PSI and expect my car to just go a little slower. Christ...
But shouldn't you ecu tell your wastgate to do it's buisness when you get pinging?
 
I'm not hear to fix stupid, you guys have to do that on your own. Until you've seen a motor blown apart from low octane, don't tell me I can run 87 octane and boost 18 PSI and expect my car to just go a little slower. Christ...

Wait, I'm confused? So is this about you specifically and your Supra, or the rest of us and our 'average' cars and trucks? I could have sworn this was about cars in general, not your obviously modified car...

...As it is, most of us have the common sense not to put anything less than premium/racing fuel in a car running that much boost, but most of us are talking about regular cars, without forced induction...

Meh, that is why I would stick with V8 power when it comes to performance cars... A lot of them are designed to run regular fuel, make the power I need, and are happy to move up to premium if I desire...

America at its best!
 
I got a 98' Trans Am for 8k. It has an LS1 and is strong as a bull. Say what you want but it is a very reliable engine. Don't rag on it just cuz you hate America for no reason. It's a very good car if you want fast for little money. The only down fall for it is that it requires premium gas and guzzles it fast.

:lol: cheers!
i knew somthing would be around his price range

ultrashot - im "pretty" sure you talk before you think, there are plenty of ls1s getting around over here with up to and over 500,000ks on the clock and there still going strong. what would you call that?

duke - clearly it wasnt useless ^ and come on, ive still got a few points left
 
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