What does PD need to put its attention into next?

  • Thread starter Nagaremono
  • 108 comments
  • 5,182 views

PD. Get a move on. Fix this next.

  • Selling - whatever form it takes

  • More single player content - races, championships, etc

  • Lobbies - at least as functional as GT Sport

  • Sport mode - penalty system, etc

  • Other (comment below)

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Imari
Kinda, but I think 24 hour races are also problematic without mid-race saves and other creature comforts to make them not an exercise in masochism. It's just way too long, and even in real life these races are done by entire teams of people.

What the game could probably use is more 45 minute to 2 hour races, with a handful of 3-4 hour races for those who really want to be tested. AI difficulties notwithstanding.

Personally, I'm a big fan of 2.4 Hour variants of the big real life 24 hour races. 2.4 hours is very doable by a single person, but if you're actually trying to drive hard and clean for that whole time the level of concentration and physical endurance required is substantial. Having done a couple on iRacing simply finishing without stuffing the car is a significant achievement.
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If they were to come I’d expect them to bring along mid-race saves as well. I remember that wasn’t available in GT5 from the start but later patched in. Is there really any worry that that wouldn’t be included this time around? Feels like a given.

As far as lengths go, surely 24 hours can’t be “problematic” even with saves. They sort of serve as a driver change, albeit long ones. There were many variations of endurance races, 6 Hours of Tsukuba, 300 laps (?) of High Speed Ring and many others. 4 hours, 8, 12 and other lap variations.
 
NAXEHT
If they were to come I’d expect them to bring along mid-race saves as well. I remember that wasn’t available in GT5 from the start but later patched in. Is there really any worry that that wouldn’t be included this time around? Feels like a given.
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It's Polyphony. They removed the ability to sell cars - a fundamental staple of the series and the genre. I wouldn't take anything for granted.
NAXEHT
As far as lengths go, surely 24 hours can’t be “problematic” even with saves. They sort of serve as a driver change, albeit long ones. There were many variations of endurance races, 6 Hours of Tsukuba, 300 laps (?) of High Speed Ring and many others. 4 hours, 8, 12 and other lap variations.
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Historically that's correct, but it's worth thinking from a gameplay perspective what you're trying to achieve with such long races.

It's not going to be a challenge of racecraft or strategy. Firstly because the GT7 AI isn't really up to supporting that. And secondly because the way GT7 rewards are structured means that the player is supposed to keep trying until they win, and very few people are going to be on-board for repeating a very long race. If it's not clear that they're gonna win in the first 30 minutes, they're gonna restart with a faster car.

So it's probably going to be pretty much purely a test of stamina, and I'd suggest that the feeling of reward from completing a 24 hour race isn't that much greater than the feeling from completing a shorter race. 6 hours is still crazy long. 3 or 4 hours is still plan-your-day-around-this long. Even 2 hours is maybe-have-a-wee-before-you-start long.

The risk you run the longer the races get is that people will simply be turned off just from the idea of it and will never even bother trying. And fair enough, I never did the 24 hour races in GT5 because I felt no need to put myself through that misery. They're not particularly fun to do, the "fun" comes afterwards in having conquered this mountain of mediocrity and I think that can be done just as well without the colossal waste of people's time.

A 24 hour race could be done in a way that was interesting, strategic and engaging. But probably not in Gran Turismo. If we're talking about the style of long races that go into Gran Turismo games then yeah, I think the way that they're designed is a problem. They're by design only fun to the tiny portion of the player base that actually has nothing better to do with their life than grind out laps. And there's no sign in the other races in GT7 that Polyphony would deviate from their historical design principles at all.

The 24 hours races are a holdover from RPG design back when Gran Turismo was designed to borrow gameplay elements from RPGs. RPGs learned better ways of doing things, Gran Turismo can too.
 
How would we save a race with this online saving? If there’s a server maintenance, how can that race be saved before and continued after maintenance? Would it be like saving an incomplete livery and picking up where you left off? Or would it be saved like a replay file?
 
Yeah... no to Endurance races that involve actual hourzzzzz.

Instead of starting 45 seconds behind Rubilar... imagine starting 4 hour 22 seconds behind him in a 6 hour race instead loooool.

Seriously though about as long as I'd be interested in would be F1 type, short of 2 hours, 50-60 laps sorta stuff.

GT3 had the championships so right.
 
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For those longer races you would need the ability to save for things like PD maintenance, things that are happening locally like you power going out or severe storms.

I would have the option to save while in the pits.
 
Biggest difference would be the field size. Yes, in some of these hour long races, the AI still trail behind. Thing is, six cars in a 24H race won’t fly. The Spa 24H event is pretty good. Would players, today, be interested in the weather changing to rain for 12 hours or Getting the luck of the randomness for a full wet 24H?
Anyway, I think Kaz answered gtplanet with a still deciding about it.
 
Save option for a 24hr race be nice, more I think about what's missing in this game, I yearn for the days of when we got a game complete , none of this online patching every few weeks , creating more issues etc.
 
Loads more new cars and keep GT7 and supporting the PS4 for a another 5 years I was told by Sony when the ps5 comes in it will be 6.49 pounds Iam on benefits I can’t afford it
 
Not urgent, but splitscreen assist and controller settings!!

Trying to drift w my girl 🤘
 
Roulette Wheel - its so rigged right now. Make all the parts available to purchase in the tuning shop. Just have credits on the wheel that spins pretty fast until you hit the X to stop it. This way is is more random and you control the stop. Just my thoughts.
 
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More content for sure (tracks, cars, special events). Not really cookie-cutter race at X-PP kind of event, but more 'themed' events - Miata/Clio Cup, SpecZ, B-Spec, Karts, - anything along those lines. Just races more grounded to what can be done at the entry/amateur level.

More economy cars, saloons, wagons, trucks, SUVs, and crossovers (cry about it). Additional SEMA GT Awards cars or track specials to contrast against the Gr.4s/Gr.3s.

Better lobby settings to host better races than just Gr. BOP or open class, like forcing identical cars or specific attributes (Drivetrain, Aspiration, Model Year(s), etc). Host leaving the session doesn't close it.
 
They should focus on getting new management, this game has been a disaster that looks like it took one year of development, not five.

NAXEHT
Good, rational post. I too, don’t quite get the outcry for more SP events if they look like many of the other “catch the rabbit” ones. Besides voting for lobbies and Sport I did also put another vote for more SP content as it is lacking, compared to some of the older games. One obvious thing so far overlooked or ignored are the classic endurance races. Stop me if I’m wrong but I think most of us would prefer 24 Hours of Le Mans, not 24 Minutes of Le Mans. Now we also have Daytona among available circuits, give us a 24 Hours of Daytona event. Nürburgring. Tsukuba. High Speed Ring. Etc, etc, etc. Where are these long, lovely events?
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24 hour races was always a joke in GT, just turn on B-spec and wait for 8 hours.

Variable length races is fine but this AI can't make five minute races interesting, PD absolutely should not subject the players to 24 hours of that trash
 
ShiftingGears
They should focus on getting new management, this game has been a disaster that looks like it took one year of development, not five.


24 hour races was always a joke in GT, just turn on B-spec and wait for 8 hours.

Variable length races is fine but this AI can't make five minute races interesting, PD absolutely should not subject the players to 24 hours of that trash
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Depends on what the award is. If they crank the difficulty/AI pace up higher than anything else we've had to where the entire pack runs as hard as the top three in current races it could be interesting, especially if they give them logical pitting strategies (and unique/varied strategies for each AI driver)

I'd do a 24hr for like 30mil credits and a really cool car that can only be acquired by completing that race. We need exclusive cars locked behind difficult events like the old games, that's part of the charm that is missing. GT7 doesn't even feel like a game, it feels like a driving simulator a driver's ed course would use to teach 15-16yo kids the basics of driving, lol. It's clinical, cold, and sterile. No soul at all... One way to rectify that is to a) make it difficult. b) introduce some fun into the events c) have exclusive rewards for completing a genuinely difficult challenge. They had the red bull events that were not easy in 5 (or was it 6?) and they had that Hamilton content in Sport that was pretty challenging, why don't have any events outside of the BoP Cup, er, "Gazoo championship" or whatever it's called.?

That Gazoo tournament thing doesn't count when 4/5 of the player base hasn't even gotten the trophy for completing 5 Sport races or whatever the "challenge" was, so anything related to Sport is a non-starter for the overwhelming majority of the player base. Idk, all they have to do is look at their old games for inspiration, but at this point I can only assume they don't want to have a fun & challenging "game". They seem to want to make GT Sport all over again, which is fine, but tell people before they buy the damned game that any fun or challenge is up to the players to create themselves.
 
ShiftingGears
Variable length races is fine but this AI can't make five minute races interesting, PD absolutely should not subject the players to 24 hours of that trash
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Have you tried the Lago Maggiore 1 hour mission yet?
Imo one of the best races in the game.
 
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Boxster
Have you tried the Lago Maggiore 1 hour mission yet?
Imo one of the best races in the game.
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It is still sad that this is only one-time missions. All Human Comedy races are great and all of them should be regular events (even with lower payout)
 
It would seem that PD current plan is to milk adding events, a little here, a little there as long as they can, this I see is a turn off

-Add structure to the events, with unlocking events and some overall goal to achieve

-At all tracks, create events that encompass all class of cars, engine type, drive-types, country, vs makes of cars, etc., You should be able to find a event, no matter the car you bring to each track.

-Find a way to add seasons, that are added three or four times a year, with some goal at completion that either payouts with credits or unique car, something.

-Fix custom races, substantially increase payouts, add the ability to save settings & change cars.
Preferably move the custom race to the desktop, go back to something like GT Sport which ask you to select your car then track then settings.

-Start by adding the low hanging fruit by adding all the track layouts that already existing in the game, example Suzuka West, this open up more tracks for the lower class cars.

-Balance the economy, so that people don't have to migrate to two or three events just to stay ahead on credits.

-Add a event generator

-Bring back Seasonal Events

-Add endurance races to each track

-Start adding grid starts to new and existing events
 
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Literally just give me more events on the existing tracks (new tracks, sure I want them too)! There are like 10-events on Tokyo but SO MANY TRACKS HAVE 1-EVENT!! There are tracks that I haven't played since March/April after completing the CE's for them because as much as I try to ignore the payout and tell myself to stop chasing buying all the cars, it feels empty when I beat 3 races, but barely paid off the racing wheels and a turbo for one the cars I raced.

I'm the type that I need a reason to race a car that doesn't jump out to me - give me single make races, racing era's (like 1990's cars or <1960's or something) and endurance races on each track so we can grind races, but on ALL the tracks! Put a handicap payout system like GTS so I want to challenge myself with a lower powered car and win the race still. I envy the people completely satisfied running custom races and time trials - I've tried and tried convincing myself that I'm having fun, but I don't want to create my own fun - I want it to be curated to me! I don't know what I don't know.

I just can't wrap my head-around why they would have so few races and championships. I can't think of a single logical reason why they don't have an enormous selection for all the tracks. As many have said, the hard part is modeling the tracks and cars - setting racing parameters could literally be scripted! This could easily solve the issue with having no races (without detuning) for all the race cars that exist and no, the Gr.1 menu didn't solve the itch because all the VGT's the AI use force your hand in the car you end up using (and truth be told, I smoke way too much weed to have the quick-twitch needed to be consistent in those races lol).

So many strong points brought up in this thread and if something is importnt to you, then its important. But to me, this seems like such low hanging fruit. Nothing needs to be created nor fixed in order for this to happen - they simply need to set the parameters and bam, unlimited amount of fun to be had!
 
The big problem I have with a lack of longer (multiple hour) endurance races is the lack of realism with regards to tire and fuel consumption. You can't just "turn up" the rate of consumable wear and consider it an effect replacement for the passage of time. It's not. It's complete junk. You can't have tires falling off after the 2nd or 3rd lap just to make it "seem" like a long race. The result is such a small fraction of the race actually being run with optimal (relatively speaking) conditions. Throw in the horrible time passage modeling for rain/wet tracks and...ugh.

Don't even get me started on PD's horrible coding for tire wear = tire grip abilities. (that's not how it works!)
 
Single player needs GTSport's handicap bonus. There's no point in joining a race with a slower car, not to mention that slower cars aren't really slower in many cases which, is probably why the feature was pulled. Strange choice, but from reading through the threads, it seems the challenge of the AI is actually correct for the majority of people, so...:banghead:
 
single player contents:

- more tracks and cars (obviously). more original circuit from previous game are very welcome like grand valley, midfield raceway, autumn ring, red rock valley, seattle circuit, tokyo r246, etc etc

- more events, or just increase the custom race payout to 3/4 of le mans or other high payout races. that will make infinite amount of events.

- engine swap and special parts on the shop. Like other said, increase the collector's level cap and put the engine shop or special parts at higher collector level, and make it like legend car or ucd, on rotation. it's also unfair for those not participating the bonanza. they would take years to get all engine swaps, and it's definitely not feasible

- Improve the roulette system. my suggestions is make daily marathon reward like gt sport (all cars) and just put the roulette ticket as race rewards on the top of credits. Random tickets for races and car tickets for daily marathon. next cafe menus should reward cars not tickets

honestly, i don't really care that much about selling cars, but that is only my opinion, and because i like to hoard cars
 
To finally establish a working and all of the Time correctly executed Track Limits System.
Actually it’s already in the Game as it’s working 100% correctly during License Tests and approximately in 90% of the Circuit Experience.
But for some unknown and for me personally incomprehensible Reason it’s not or super lenient active outside these two Modes.
Super annoying.

Same goes for the Contact Penalty System.
The Algorithm is definitely and 100% capable to detect Car Contact with Objects like Walls for Example.
Why not make it work exactly the same when having Car Contact is beyond me.

The Basics are ALL in the Code already.
Yet they don’t get applied universally throughout all Game Modes.

And don’t get me started about the AI, please 😅
They are a prime example how to behave and race in a realistic and challenging Way, IF!!! set up correctly in Custom Race Mode.
Though outside of this Mode, they occasionally behave like Morons and quite often remind me of the dark ages of Sport Mode.
The Mechanics seem all to be in the Games Code yet it varies unbelievably hard.
Just why???
 
My biggest complaint aside from the game being unfinished is the lack of races for high horsepower exotics. There should also be more appropriate classic and vintage car races. Many cars are not useable unless they are detuned and that is simply BS.

Its mind boggling that this has escaped them but as I've said before, this is my last GT game and with no real endgame in sight, I'll be off to something else come fall.
 

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