[WHAT HAPPENS?] - Let's face it, why is Polyphony Digital so slow in content production?
- Thread starter BrunusCL82
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Tracks and cars. Sure people use it, but the game is marketed on online racing, therefore the tracklist is fundamental in terms of content.
Yet in their centrepiece sport mode there are only two racing categories, with Nurburgring and Interlagos being recycled over and over and over.
Features like scapes come after you have a decent car and track list.
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- ScottPuss20
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I feel as though PD are speeding up their production process, so as to churn out 15 cars in the space of two months. The fact that they also plan to add another 35 on top of that suggests that things have changed in the PD offices. I think GT Sport was hamstrung at the start because of the FIA partnership.
Downhill Dino
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Sure, I just think they could've reduced the scapes number by over 1000 and still met the wants of most players. That's total overkill.
FUNanywhere
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- tombrookscomms
First-hand, let me tell you some of my personal experience with Polyphony Digital and the reasoning behind why some content production is slow. For those who aren't aware, I voiced the GT Sport game last year and the narrator you'll hear on all of the Racing Etiquette/Circuit Experience/Driving School videos is myself.
Now, to do this, I had to travel to Tokyo for some of the voiceover work and I had the chance to go and see the Polyphony Digital office in Tokyo one evening at around 22.00, and let me tell you that it is quite large and still had around 30 people working late at that time of night. There are hundreds of people at Polyphony, all of whom put in some incredible hours with one aim: perfection. Anything less is really not good enough and attention-to-detail is everything. Japanese culture is incredibly different to how the rest of us work in the Western parts of the world and the team at PD will quite literally spend days in the office at a time - I really am not joking, as there were beds under desks for people to sleep and get up the next day to start working straight away!
The person who showed me around the offices explained that Kaz has a great working relationship with all of his employees and he believes that this is the reason for the quality of GT. His trust in the people who he works with is crucially important (and is typical of culture within Japanese companies) and that is why all work regarding car modelling, track designing and so on is all done in-house. In short, it makes communication easier between people - could you imagine trying to design a code for a track and having the person you're working on it with in America some 14 hours behind? It would be a nightmare!
So much of an emphasis on quality over quantity has gone on with GT Sport to try and bring the franchise back to its core values. If we have to wait a while for cars and circuits to appear then perhaps this will give you a greater understanding why. Perhaps I'm more patient because of this first-hand knowledge, but Polyphony Digital has to be one of the best companies I've had the pleasure of working for and their standard for work is incredible.
Now, to do this, I had to travel to Tokyo for some of the voiceover work and I had the chance to go and see the Polyphony Digital office in Tokyo one evening at around 22.00, and let me tell you that it is quite large and still had around 30 people working late at that time of night. There are hundreds of people at Polyphony, all of whom put in some incredible hours with one aim: perfection. Anything less is really not good enough and attention-to-detail is everything. Japanese culture is incredibly different to how the rest of us work in the Western parts of the world and the team at PD will quite literally spend days in the office at a time - I really am not joking, as there were beds under desks for people to sleep and get up the next day to start working straight away!
The person who showed me around the offices explained that Kaz has a great working relationship with all of his employees and he believes that this is the reason for the quality of GT. His trust in the people who he works with is crucially important (and is typical of culture within Japanese companies) and that is why all work regarding car modelling, track designing and so on is all done in-house. In short, it makes communication easier between people - could you imagine trying to design a code for a track and having the person you're working on it with in America some 14 hours behind? It would be a nightmare!
So much of an emphasis on quality over quantity has gone on with GT Sport to try and bring the franchise back to its core values. If we have to wait a while for cars and circuits to appear then perhaps this will give you a greater understanding why. Perhaps I'm more patient because of this first-hand knowledge, but Polyphony Digital has to be one of the best companies I've had the pleasure of working for and their standard for work is incredible.
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- turboracer 48
Tom, so pleased you were able to give real life insight rather than Western based speculation, including the key differences in Japanese culture.
As I've posted before PD's approach was clearly quality before quantity after PS3 misteps (for whatever reasons) and I hope it continues even if it is slow to some Westerm eyes.....
As posted before the long term continous improvement approach is a refreshing 'counter' to the modify and refresh only one year/two year approach of many Western gaming companies the worst being EA......
Ps PD clearly have 200 employees as others have said and if you want to know what they do go and read the Options Tab About the Game Team Credits - its all laid out there on great detail.
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- Warlock__SRB
@BrunusCL82 there are few things why is Sony so fond of Kaz, one of those is Kaz being SCEJ vice president if I recall it right.
Now regarding GT Sport graphics and possible upcoming content, not saying this will come, but just looking at facts and how can it go on from here.
GT Sport has really good graphics engine, for pCARS 2 I cannot say much, since it is a PC game too, but compared to GT on PS4 it is a lot worse in graphics. Regarding Forza 7, it doesn't have dynamic weather as you said, nor it has dynamic time of the day, Forza 7 uses a lot of stuff precalculated and most of the things that are going on are in space of 2-3h, where normal driver/gamer will not see much of a difference. GT Sport on other hand, calculates 95% of things on the go. And this is a big hint that maybe we will see a lot of new stuff added throughout life span of GT Sport, and with Kazs' last few words on new tracks, it is obvious that they will bring in more of them, even with weather conditions (which are not mandatory for a good racing game) and maybe time cycle.
Now why they didn't bring up more content, well, if you look at the quality of current models in GT Sport vs other games, there is the answer. As you say, I to don't approve in this case quality over quantity because GT6 Premium models were really good, but I am sure there is a reason why is it this way. And probably reason is that they wanna keep this GT Sport throughout next gen of PS consoles. Base is here, it just needs to expand...
Same goes for gameplay alone, I do not appreciate they removed all tuning section, but this way it is much faster to do all the stuff, although it was fun hooking car with all mods... But gameplay is really good, they do need to work a bit on MP still, but the base for such a good game is made, it just needs to expand as I said...
And looking at other games, I do play a lot of Assetto Corsa, I still prefer how GT Sport looks and feels, even though it is a PS4 only title and PS4 alone is drawing it back from it's full potential on, lets say PC... I did try pCARS2, but I simply didn't like it that much, graphics vise I don't care too much, but there was something off with car handling, and still prefer GT Sport over it. This is me probably, not saying it will be same for every other gamer out there... For Forza 7 I cannot say too much, I did play APEX on PC, was feeling really arcade compared to GT, and I have a strange feeling that every car just wants to drift... again, this is me.
So, I really want more content as you do, I really don't understand their moves on cutting content for getting better quality, even PS4 cannot show it (since it is weak), but seems that they are working on a title that will expand over years and over console generations this time, and this is the other thing I think they are aiming for...
Cheers...
Now regarding GT Sport graphics and possible upcoming content, not saying this will come, but just looking at facts and how can it go on from here.
GT Sport has really good graphics engine, for pCARS 2 I cannot say much, since it is a PC game too, but compared to GT on PS4 it is a lot worse in graphics. Regarding Forza 7, it doesn't have dynamic weather as you said, nor it has dynamic time of the day, Forza 7 uses a lot of stuff precalculated and most of the things that are going on are in space of 2-3h, where normal driver/gamer will not see much of a difference. GT Sport on other hand, calculates 95% of things on the go. And this is a big hint that maybe we will see a lot of new stuff added throughout life span of GT Sport, and with Kazs' last few words on new tracks, it is obvious that they will bring in more of them, even with weather conditions (which are not mandatory for a good racing game) and maybe time cycle.
Now why they didn't bring up more content, well, if you look at the quality of current models in GT Sport vs other games, there is the answer. As you say, I to don't approve in this case quality over quantity because GT6 Premium models were really good, but I am sure there is a reason why is it this way. And probably reason is that they wanna keep this GT Sport throughout next gen of PS consoles. Base is here, it just needs to expand...
Same goes for gameplay alone, I do not appreciate they removed all tuning section, but this way it is much faster to do all the stuff, although it was fun hooking car with all mods... But gameplay is really good, they do need to work a bit on MP still, but the base for such a good game is made, it just needs to expand as I said...
And looking at other games, I do play a lot of Assetto Corsa, I still prefer how GT Sport looks and feels, even though it is a PS4 only title and PS4 alone is drawing it back from it's full potential on, lets say PC... I did try pCARS2, but I simply didn't like it that much, graphics vise I don't care too much, but there was something off with car handling, and still prefer GT Sport over it. This is me probably, not saying it will be same for every other gamer out there... For Forza 7 I cannot say too much, I did play APEX on PC, was feeling really arcade compared to GT, and I have a strange feeling that every car just wants to drift... again, this is me.
So, I really want more content as you do, I really don't understand their moves on cutting content for getting better quality, even PS4 cannot show it (since it is weak), but seems that they are working on a title that will expand over years and over console generations this time, and this is the other thing I think they are aiming for...
Cheers...
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I wouldn't count on potential improvement before it materialises as PD has disappointed before. Time invested in "Future proofing", for one. I am personally not enamoured with the live shadowing as it stands because racing with the afternoon sun making it difficult to see doesn't add value for me.
I understand this isn't uncommon for Japanese studios and work ethic, but this could be exactly why GT has production problems. This insane-work at all costs-(including the cost of you're own health) cannot actually be beneficial to the work they are producing.
Look at the work SMD have done with PCars and Turn10 with Forza. Neither of these series/games are perfect, but they have been able to do a lot with less and without the inhumane working conditions the rest of the develop world wouldn't accept.
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Except, it isn't and shouldn't be allowed.
I know that if I brought sleeping equipment into the office and tried to do that I'd be told to go home and take some time off to think about what I was doing with my life.
It's a cultural problem from my understanding, but to say they have a choice, is pretty ignorant to what must be pretty appalling working conditions.
I mean, they are making video games... racing video games, there health and well being shouldn't be conditional to the success of these games...
I'm not trying to fight a one man crusade against this kind of work culture, but I also don't think that this kind of behaviour should be looked on as positive in anyway shape of form.
Downhill Dino
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I don't know my laws from country to country so I'm going to throw some assumptions out there, but staying to work may not be a liability issue over there like it would for labor laws on this side of the planet. We don't know their exact situation over, it could be they truly are passionate as per Tom's words, or they do it because they feel they have to. Maybe a mix of both. That's not something we can really make a decision without looking at the evidence, where there's none to be found. It's just a guessing game where you're throwing out accusations that may or may not be true. I don't see how that's for us to decide. It's always different looking from the outside.
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- tombrookscomms
I can see this getting out-of-hand pretty quickly and I would much rather that didn't happen, so let's please just leave that point here. Regardless of whether it is standard practice within Japanese workplaces or not, I am reporting what I saw there. I should stress that the beds were not being used at that particular time and there was no evidence to suggest that they would be.
If anybody wishes to discuss this further then I'd be happy to via private message.
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I think people from different cultures naturally see theirs as the best and only way, which is why something like that practice for many westerners would be a shock. I'm sure to the Japanese we do a whole lot of what they would define as crazy too!
Great to get an insight from inside PD though, fascinating to know that they are so invested in the game.
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- Lma_robot
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Who's deciding what? I just see people offering their point of views on the subject, much like you did. I think its worth looking at it from the outside, and looking at the other companies from the outside, and see how they compare to each other.
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I also wouldn't necessarily equate sleeping at your office to being more productive either.
- 87
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Turn10 is also still using the same car models from Forza 1, with the wrong headlights and everything, just look at the R32, both VW and Nissan.
Or the RX-7 FC, FD, PT Cruiser, Beetle, Camaro, etc etc etc, just take a gander at igcd and you'll see.
Even mistakes get carried over, like the speedo needle not working in the Ford GT, in both FM3 up to FM6, and maybe even 7.
I have a feeling they just planned ahead, modelled the cars with allot more polygons then neccesary at the time, or just smooth excisting models out and send someone out to model the interior so they can re-use them in later games.
Polyphony Digitial however never showed us anything like that, nothing is planned ahead, it's just seems like a un-coordinated mess right after GT4.
It's almost like GT PSP and GT5 slowed them down, and now they can't keep up with the competition quantity wise. and don't know what to focus at.
Even the standard cars in GT5 were rushed, and in general a bad decission, it almost seemed like a aftertought.
Quality wise they're still miles ahead imho, just a shame i'm still stuck with a Xbone...
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It doesn't really matter what you think. Someone who worked on the game just told you why it is the way it is.
You can agree with their stance or not, but the whole point of this thread was to speculate why.
And now you have the answer.
Of course it won't end the whining because of the internet who would argue black was white with not one iota of self awareness. Yawn.
You can agree with their stance or not, but the whole point of this thread was to speculate why.
And now you have the answer.
Of course it won't end the whining because of the internet who would argue black was white with not one iota of self awareness. Yawn.
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- Laserbeak43
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Turn10 re-using old assets isn't really a opinion though.
Edit : Just read the "facts", and that theory was brought up numorous times, Kaz being a perfectionist...
Yeah.
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- Laserbeak43
And I've read somewhere that Kaz said that they're making the models to be future-proof. So that they could be used in other GT titles.
Side-note:
I'd love to love my job enough to sleep in my office. At one time, my company was good enough to me that I would eat and breath for the company. And they recognized it. Nothing wrong with that in any country. That's progress.
Side-note:
I'd love to love my job enough to sleep in my office. At one time, my company was good enough to me that I would eat and breath for the company. And they recognized it. Nothing wrong with that in any country. That's progress.
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Are you sure you arent thinking of the comments he made about the PS3 car models (that had to be rebuilt from scratch anyway)?
Scaff
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Nope they have said it again..........
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The problem came because PS3 is too hard to program, add that GT 5 was very ambitious.
PD is in the situation where it is because they decided, anyway I love their work and still have that soul, I do not care if I should wait (as long as it is free e.e)
