What is wrong with the Lamborghini Murcielago in this game?

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If the Lamborghini in that Grand Tour special event is the Murcielago then it didn't handle too bad for me at all. It would slide a lot when braking but it usually slid perfectly into the turn for me so no complaints really.

I have not driven one in real life (and if I did I would probably go the speed limit around corners) but when it was on Top Gear Jeremy said it was impossible to go over the limit without spinning out. Here it is actually, he starts talking about the handling at around 6:30. So take that for what it's worth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20E5YkwTY54
 
Welcome to GTP. The the spring rates MUST be higher in the rear because an Elise IS heavier in the rear (since it is a mid-engined car). Go check out this Lotus board to see for yourself: http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f91/spring-rates-survey-63606/

Interesting. Good read as well thanks. I will still stand by my statement tho that lowering the rear spring rates definitely takes out alot of the "tail happy" out.
 
(I work for an exotic car share firm), and I can tell you, it does NOT drive like that.

Dude let me correct this. Driving a lambo is a totally different thing than racing one. I highly doubt you were able to rev the car like a madman like you can do in the game. Lambos are infamous for their horrible deathtraps when steering and handling the throttle, even worse when shifting back from high speeds with high revs.

I have a website full of funny videos, and over the last few years I've seen dozens of normal day idiots that think they can drive a lambo and horribly fail at it, sometimes even at low speeds the car just breaks out for no appearant reason. It usually happens when accelerating from traffic lights with some sort of bend in the road, or when braking/shifting back before a corner. Check youtube for reference, enough evidence there!
 
I've done a fair bit of sim racing, and think myself pretty decent, i've also driven a fair few of the other MR high powered cars in GT5 and i can say that around a track the Murcielago is one of the hardest to drive, slowest, longest braking distances and one of the most unstable tankslappers under braking.

So many cars run circles around it.

any of you familiar with Top Gear? It's what Lambos do for gods sake. Horrible braking, horrible handling and terrifying rear-end breakouts when breaking or accelerating. The only "Good" lambo that doesn't want to kill you is the Gallardo, thanks to the 4WD.
 
While the lambo can be a handful if driven incorrectly once you get to know it and learn it's traits it's a perfectly managable car and tbh i love driving it. It's involving, it's nerve wracking, it's on the edge driving that requires 100% concentration which is what i hope a real lambo would be like.
 
Dude let me correct this. Driving a lambo is a totally different thing than racing one. I highly doubt you were able to rev the car like a madman like you can do in the game. Lambos are infamous for their horrible deathtraps when steering and handling the throttle, even worse when shifting back from high speeds with high revs.

I have a website full of funny videos, and over the last few years I've seen dozens of normal day idiots that think they can drive a lambo and horribly fail at it, sometimes even at low speeds the car just breaks out for no appearant reason. It usually happens when accelerating from traffic lights with some sort of bend in the road, or when braking/shifting back before a corner. Check youtube for reference, enough evidence there!

Old lambos maybe, but the new ones are pretty darn good. I have tracked a G a few times and the suspension setup is magic. Albiet this G was running the "sports" 20% harder spring package used in competition production Gallardos.

Tyres were Pirelli PZero-Nero and one thing noted is that handling is drastically changed with tyre pressure. After only a few laps with higher pressure (36+ Celsius cold) the tyres would barely last a lap at full tilt before they become spongey and the car was moving all over the road, (lots of fun but punishes the tyres). Next time out we did some research and ran tyres at 32 Celsius hot, They stuck to the road much better and handling was much more inline with what should be expected from such a car, a little understeer was notable but expected.

Now since GT5 doesn't have tyre pressure, no one can really be sure if the car does or does not handle as it should. Tyre pressures are one of the fundamental tuning points in racing and can be the difference from having a evenly balanced car or an absolute pig.
 
lol, this reminds of the grand tour challenge and the night drive in the murc. This was the most insane race ever. Due to some weird glitch I couldn´t see the road at all half the time (it was like the lights were turned off), and in places where I could see the beam of light was far too weak for high beams.

This and the tendency to oversteer with the Murc got me going sideways basically all the time. Blindly steering into a corner simply by looking at the track map, catching the oversteer, flooring the throttle to let the awd sort the car out, drifting into the next one, hehe.

It was hilarious actually. I managed to barely get bronze, and left it at that. No way I want to drive a oversteering like hell supercar in the night without lights on roads like that again.

What is up with the light bug btw? It makes night driving completely impossible for me. It seems to have something to do with the angle of the road surface. When I was going uphill the road was lit (well sorta), and when going level or downhill it was pitch black. Really creepy not being able to see while going sideways at 150+ km/h in a murc hehe.
 
any of you familiar with Top Gear? It's what Lambos do for gods sake. Horrible braking, horrible handling and terrifying rear-end breakouts when breaking or accelerating. The only "Good" lambo that doesn't want to kill you is the Gallardo, thanks to the 4WD.

I think almost all Lamborghini models are 4WD, including the Murcielago.

Thing is really like a bull that's gotta be tamed.
 
For starters, I've driven one and know what it should feel like.
A word to the wise (and this is interludes the forum member, not interludes the moderator speaking): the "I-know-what-I'm-talking-about-and-you're-just-going-to-have-to-take-my-word-for-it" attitude isn't going to get you very far. You can claim that you've driven a Lamborghini all you like and we have no way of knowing if you're being truthsome about it. In the same way, I can claim I used to date Anne Hathaway and nobody is the wiser (though deliberately making false claims is a violation of the AUP). If you want people to start treating you and what you say with respect, then show some towards others. If you have indeed driven a Lamborghini, don't rub our faces in it. We're not going to take to it too kindly.
 
This thread is hilarious.



As for the LP640/SV I personally have no issues with it. I use a G27 and Playseat Evo, if that makes a difference. Just gradually ease on the brakes until the weight has shifted, then slam on the brakes all the way. And also do all of the main braking in a straight line.
 
You should drive the Lotus Elise at the Top Gear-special events.

You will have the laugh of your life....a car, well know for its unbelievable grip and drivability, let you have the drift challenge of your life.

Lol, yeah on COMFORT HARD TIRES. Any car would slide around like crazy on tires that have NO GRIP. Also, OP, have you ever driven a MR car in RL? Off-throttle over-steer is a classic handling characteristic of ANY mid-engine or rear-engine car EVER MADE. EVER. SERIOUSLY. It's about time that they actually got off-throttle over-steer RIGHT for mid-engine cars. Believe me, I know. I drive a mid-engine car EVERY DAY. My precious Toyota MR2. :)

I had to register as I have been lurking for awhile.

The problem with the Elise at least and I suspect most of the other hairy MR cars is the spring rates are "backwards" I know it is in the Elise and I bought the 512BB as well(another one that was a little tail happy at stock) I suspected it may have been a camber issue but when I bought the Mid range Suspension for it and saw the high rear spring rates I could see what the problem was. I just bought a Gallardo the other day and just haven't done anything to it yet to check whether it is the same issue but I suspect it is.

Basically the rear spring rates are higher than fronts which is wrong. In any car including FF the front spring rates are always higher than the rears to keep the weight transfer towards the rear. This is why they are so crazy at keeping their rear ends in check.

In my Elise at least turning down the rear spring rates and raising the fronts sorted the car right out(sadly with the mid range suspension upgrade there isn't enough adjustment to totally correct it.

What? What a load of garbage. That is the exact OPPOSITE of what you are supposed to do in a MR car. Soft up front, stiff in the rear. Period. Snap over-steer is a part of the MR family, accept it. What you are doing may help with the snap over-steer, but you are absolutely MURDERING the handling capabilities of the car. A car set up like that will only perform at 60-70% of what it is really capable of.
 
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lol, this reminds of the grand tour challenge and the night drive in the murc. This was the most insane race ever. Due to some weird glitch I couldn´t see the road at all half the time (it was like the lights were turned off), and in places where I could see the beam of light was far too weak for high beams.

The funny thing, I realised is, that sometimes the normal headlight show you more track than the high beams...tried it on Nordschleife at night.
 
What? What a load of garbage. That is the exact OPPOSITE of what you are supposed to do in a MR car. Soft up front, stiff in the rear. Period. Snap over-steer is a part of the MR family, accept it. What you are doing may help with the snap over-steer, but you are absolutely MURDERING the handling capabilities of the car. A car set up like that will only perform at 60-70% of what it is really capable of.

Yeah I read up at the Elise forum link that was posted. BUT the Gallardo stock spring setup is 50/50 so it's not so much a spring rate issue on that car anyway.

I'm certainly not gonna turn the back springs up that is for sure...
 
This thread is hilarious.



As for the LP640/SV I personally have no issues with it. I use a G27 and Playseat Evo, if that makes a difference. Just gradually ease on the brakes until the weight has shifted, then slam on the brakes all the way. And also do all of the main braking in a straight line.

Quoted for truth! :)

I have same setup and had no issues, besides the 1 time I took it out on cape ring with no abs on low quality tires. Stock settings/tires seem perfectly fine.
 
This post needs only one reply, leave a little throttle applied and ease in the brakes at first. Be smooth.

You cannot take your foot off the accelerator and thump it on the breaks, you are effectively making the car do a stoppie, and look what happens when you try to turn in on a bike while doing a stoppie. :scared:

Fun post though.
 
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I just drove the lamborghini murcielago lp 640 after a friend of mine told me how horrible it was in this game, and I gotta say, WTF polyphony? The car is nearly undriveable, with INSANE amounts of off-throttle oversteer on corner entry and a tendency to overreact to counter steering that is so exaggerated, it renders the car nothing more than a pretty looking paper weight. While I have not driven the lp 640 in real life, I have driven a regular murcielago quite a few times (I work for an exotic car share firm), and I can tell you, it does NOT drive like that.

There are also many other cars in this game that drive unusually badly, and because the tuning algorithms in this game are crap (which is made painfully clear by the fact that realistic suspension settings are not rewarded, and even extreme settings only net vague changes in car behavior), there is little that can be done about it.

The strange thing, however, is how spot on some of the other cars feel. For instance, the Ford GT, which I have quite a bit of real-life seat time in, feels remarkably good in this game. Granted, no video game can truly replicate how a car drives in real life, this game does a good job at showcasing the overall experience of this an many others, and it is because of this that cars like the lp 640 stand out so much.

Whether it's a lack of proper programming time on certain cars, or bugs/anomalies in the physics engine, I hope that future patches will address at least some of these issues, because it really detracts from the experience in this game when you spend hard earned money on a car that is just not up to snuff.

Are you sure? I have the LP670 SV in my garage and its' incredibly good with all aids off and sport soft/race hard tyres.
As for the LP640, which I used for a good 45 mins (to finally get gold) on the 4th Grand Tour event, i found it excellent. I had all aids off and found it handled great for such a big car. Only minor issue was when braking for a corner the tail heavy end sometimes whipped round :dopey:
 
Cars like the Murcielago and Veryon look nice on a poster but aren't designed for track use.

lol wut you smokin' bro.

Top Gear Test track times:
1. 1:16.8 - Bugatti Veyron Super Sport
8. 1:18.3 - Bugatti Veyron
11. 1:19.0 - Lamborghini Murciélago LP670-4 SuperVeloce

Nurburgring:
7:40 Lamborghini Murcielago LP640
7:42 Lamborghini Murciélago LP670-4 SV (lol)
 
I've got the chrome murc. I love it. I like the rotation under braking and find it to be very predictable. I can't speak to real life accuracy at all. I'm just playing the game. I think it may simply come down to driving style. I am much slower and uncomfortable with an understeering car, so maybe that's all it is.
 
This thread is hilarious.

This.

Some of the reactions in this thread to what are legitimate questions are just :lol: DON'T QUESTION ME I KNOW EVERYTHING!!1!

Anyway I didn't think the car was that difficult to handle, I knew it was going to be a handful purely because of the power so was smooth on the throttle and it was fine.
 
any MR cars in real life tend to have that lift off oversteer, I have been an "unfortunate" passenger is 2 "incidents" caused by lift off oversteer, both times in a nsx stock.
It's just how u drive it, u can't drive an MR they way u drive in NFS....
People do get gold on the top gear challenge, and yes I did try the 512 bb as well, it was fun driving it during one of the licence, and no I didn't get the gold in that one.
Many car mag editors criticize the original Murc's handling, it simply snaps oversteer at the limit, same case with the diablo, but lambo hit it right with the 670 SV.
If u try buying any of the MR cars in the game even running S hard tires with no aids at all, they all have the tendency to oversteer if u floor the pedal too fast after a lift off in a corner, but that's why its fun to learn the handling.
GT prolly has one of the best simulation engine, that's why I kept playing it ever since I played the original GT on PS1 God knows when. However like many other threads here mentioned, GT5 is not yet a great game yet, hopefully with more patches and DLC, it will be complete before PD releases GT6 :)
 
lol wut you smokin' bro.

Top Gear Test track times:
1. 1:16.8 - Bugatti Veyron Super Sport
8. 1:18.3 - Bugatti Veyron
11. 1:19.0 - Lamborghini Murciélago LP670-4 SuperVeloce

Nurburgring:
7:40 Lamborghini Murcielago LP640
7:42 Lamborghini Murciélago LP670-4 SV (lol)
The ACO GT1 Murcielago was basically scrapped because the base car was unsuitable for track competition, the current FIA GT1 car has a huge number of performance breaks just to make it competitive. The Veyron is an overweight truck that requires huge power to post a half decent lap time and would ruin it's tyres and brakes in no time at all.

Both would have rings run around them by a stock 911 GT3 or 458 over a 1hr race distance.
 
any of you familiar with Top Gear? It's what Lambos do for gods sake. Horrible braking, horrible handling and terrifying rear-end breakouts when breaking or accelerating. The only "Good" lambo that doesn't want to kill you is the Gallardo, thanks to the 4WD.

The Murcielago is 4WD too, though it handles like an MR in game. I watch top gear yeah, but despite all those it is still a very fast car around the top gear track.

It doesnt really bother me to be honest, it looks nice, it goes fast in a straight line and B-spec bob seems to like it. I have my own favourite cars that i like to race, i've never been a big Lamborghini person.
 
Press the brake a bit earlier and gentler to start with to lose a little bit of the speed that is probably causing the rear to come around, then you can slam it down and probably lose the rest of it without ending up in an irretrievable spin.

If you are running down through the gears fast as well to try to use the engine braking that might make the back end a bit looser than it needs to be.
Thanks! I'll try downshifting a little slower while braking.
I have been wondering what was really going on when I hit that Tour in Special events. Driving that Lambo at night was total terror, not only couldn't I see the road, my car felt like it was MR and not all wheel drive. I suspect a bug in the Lamborghini Murcielago's algorithms or possibly the LSD stock setting is off as the car will have lift throttle oversteer and for an AWD that should only be possible if you shift most of the power to the rear and LSD is set to lock quickly under decel. I will buy one and tinker with it, right now I am still saving up for my S7, whenever that car decides to show up.

The lotus seems to handle similarly, but the lotus by nature is a little squirrely. It's a short car and mid engined to boot, that is a recipe for agile turn in, but you need good throttle control to keep it pointed in the right direction.

While GT5 is close to a sim, PD have dialed back the physics thankfully if they didn't you'd barely be able to drive any of the high powered cars without aids at all. Half the ridiculous things you do in game, you wouldn't even attempt in real life, like going full throttle out of a corner in something like a ZR1. Perish the thought that GT5 is a full sim, it's close to real life as we can get all without being too real. I came to this after zipping around with the McLaren F1, all aids off save for 1 on ABS this car is light and suprisingly well planted, but without careful throttle input coming out of corners you'd swap ends very often. The murcielago thing is very weird and more than likely a bug in that vehicle's data, who has one install full custom LSD and then see if the car behaves more like the other Murcielago.


Try to not engine brake, that will upset the car more often that not, thing is you either have to gradually increase brake pressure, earlier braking or let off the gas prior to applying the brake. Check your spring rates at the rear as if it's too high you are getting too much weight shifting to the front of the car. Remember not all cars will handle as you expect them to, especially since there are little of us who have actually driven cars this hard in real life, let alone hopping into one of those exotics and doing the same.
Thanks! I'll double check the spring settings and work on my braking.
Why would you have rear brake bias???!

That makes it worse, like pulling a handbrake :scared:
Try 5:2 or 5:3 to start

GT5's default 5:5 for all cars is plain wrong. Why PD couldn't use their real values is beyond me

Anyway left foot braking for mid engined cars is a must most of the time, or declutch it if you have a wheel that has the feature.
Braking weight transfer + engine braking + engine towards the back = twitchy rear
My rational for having rear brake bias was that I figure the rear was slipping because too much of the weight was being transferred to the front while braking. I'll readjust the brake balancing and give it another go. My DFP is out of commission at the moment so I need to figure out a way to left foot brake with the controller. Thanks for the advice!

Thanks again for the advice, guys. I wanna tame this beast before I cheat and put on racing slicks.
 
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I don't mean to be a d*ck but the Murcielago was built during the audi partnership as well (Lambo was bought out nearly 4 years before the Murci was released)

This is true. To clarify, what I was trying to say was that the murcielago was designed by Lamborghini's current (at the time) head designer, Luc Donckerwolke, and while audi had already purchased the company, the car was, and still is, very much manufactured in traditional lamborghini fashion - with questionable fit and finish (like typical italian exotics). On the other hand, Audi had a much higher level of involvement with the gallardo, most likely as it already had plans to platform share with a future model of their own down the road (the R8), hence the higher level of fit and finish seen in the "baby lambo." But you are correct, and I should have phrased that better the first time.
 
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Lol, yeah the lotus was hilarious! I just turned up traction & ABS, and took a few laps to figure out it's easy to just outbrake everyone.
Of course that was often punctuated by me screaming at the tv over how stupidly inconsistent the collision disqualification rule is when the buggers hit me!
If anyone's having trouble doing the VW van lap, try doing the lotus one first ;) Worked for me. It's easier than it first seems.
Yeah I quit the Lotus challenge, I feel better bout myself know now that I know I'm not the only one who had problems with the ridiculous over steer issue (couldn't get passed the first turn without crashing into "the studio").
I hate hate hate hate hate hate HATE the VW. You know what the 0-60 is on that piece of crap; they never found out, people died of starvation before reaching it. Best I could get was 4th in that challenge.
Yeah the Lambo is way off. I've driven an Audi R8 (the V-10 one) and it goes well in game, I tried the Lambo around room in the Italia challange, and I was constantly trying to escape the walls before the ol' Alfas caught up to me. It seemed like 4 wheel drive had disappeared and it was just using the rear wheels. I hope they fix that.

Edit: I found what comfort tires their using for the Lotus
parmigianoforma.jpg
 
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I have no idea what the complaints are about but i find teh lp is too easy to handle, controlling drifts very smoothly...i thought it would be the opposite which is what sounds like you guys aer experiencing. I remember in one of the top gear eps jeremy was saying how if you let the back kick out it'll bite your head off or soemthing like that. but it was surprisingly easy to tame this bull
 
Lol, yeah on COMFORT HARD TIRES. Any car would slide around like crazy on tires that have NO GRIP. Also, OP, have you ever driven a MR car in RL? Off-throttle over-steer is a classic handling characteristic of ANY mid-engine or rear-engine car EVER MADE. EVER. SERIOUSLY. It's about time that they actually got off-throttle over-steer RIGHT for mid-engine cars. Believe me, I know. I drive a mid-engine car EVERY DAY. My precious Toyota MR2. :)

For starters, even with the absolute worst, hard compound, bald tires in the world, no car would have so little adhesion as the lotus in that challenge. Even in light corners where there is very little load on the car, the car loses grip in a very overexaggerated manner, so please stop defending this game as if its perfect and without fault. It's still a fun game, but you kids need to accept that it's just a video game, and does NOT accurately represent how a lot of these cars drive in real life. Period.

As far as the lambo is concerned -you asked me if I've ever driven a MR car in real life? Did you not read my OP? I have driven, numerous times (because of my line of work), eveything from a Ferrari 360, 430, Ford GT, Lambo Murcielago, and Gallardo, which are all MR cars.

I have also driven a couple RR cars, like the Porsche 911 Turbo and GT3. I have even had quite a few of these out on track at Road Atlanta as well, as my company sponsors track days with various organizations, so I think I'm in a pretty good position to comment on the real life behavior of these cars.

The fact is that there is a HUGE difference between lift-throttle oversteer off-throttle corner entry oversteer. Lift-throttle oversteer is where you transition from hard acceleration to full decel abruptly in a corner and cause a sudden weight transfer off the back end and on the front end. The heavy rear end nature of MR cars tends to cause them to snap out rather quickly in these circumstances.

This, however, is not at all what I am talking about with this car. In this game, even after braking and downshifting well before the corner and initiating corner entry after the balance of the car has settled, the rear end has so little traction that it's preposterous. Conversely, even RWD MR cars like the Ferrari 430 Scuderia and Ford GT are perfectly composed in this game in these circumstances, and can actually benefit from intentional lift-throttle oversteer in tight, slow corners where understeer might be present.

Anyway, I can see that I am fighting a losing battle here by making light of any imperfections in this game. I still enjoy playing it, but unlike so many here, I am not so blinded by marketing hype and brand loyalty that I can't see the good AND the bad. I think I've said all that I can say. Take it easy, guys...

For all those who refuse to acknowledge the fact that the murcielago, like many cars in this game, is not an accurate representation of its real-life counterpart (despite the fact that they have NO real-life experience with the car), here is an excerpt from a car and driver article reviewing the car and confirming my comments about the vehicle:

"On our handling loop, our test car proved a wholly nonthreatening bull. That's because, like all four-wheel-drive Lamborghinis, it understeers. You'll hear the front tires moan, then squeal, then howl. Dial up whatever intensity you want, but "push" is the order of the day, especially in hairpins. It doesn't spoil the fun, though. How could it, with 0.98 g of grip on tap? That's enough to disorient passengers and disgorge the contents of their purses. But it may contribute to what is certainly the Murciélago's chief failing—that it tends to feel big, brutish, and awkward in all low-speed maneuvers, revealing a kind of gravitas you wouldn't expect in a vehicle whose sole purpose is to entertain. The weird throttle, the slow shifter, the two tons of pork—it's sometimes hard to establish a rhythm."

This was taken from p.2, but the rest of the article can be found here: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...cielago-road_test/raging_bull_tamed_3f_page_3. Anyway, like I said before, I have a decent bit of seat time in the murci, and the reviewer's findings parallel my own. If anyone wants to argue further about this, knock yourself out, because I am done. I am not going to sit here and listen to a bunch of kids who have never even sat in one of these things, let alone driven one, tell me what's what when I work with these cars on a daily basis.
 
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