What is wrong with the Lamborghini Murcielago in this game?

I don´t have the Murcielago yet, but I´ve raced it on the Grand Tour special event. The car is a handfull. Inmense oversteer when letting off the throttle, plus terrible understeer. I think it is because the Skid recover is locked on, and this particular car does not like that assist, plus the front wheels kicking in at the same time. Another thing might be the tyres. I´m going to get it today to see if I can fix it. Probably throwing all the torque to the rear wheels will fix it. I did it with the Gallardo, ant this time, the variable center differential really works! (Not like in GT4). The car drives like a RWD car, and it does´nt understeer at all like it did before.
 
The only time I've driven the murcielago is in teh grand tour special like many others. At first, I hated the thing with all my soul. But I gotta say, after taking all the assists off (except for ABS on level 1), the thing is a blast to drive. While I could see on that race, I jumped every hill I could, drifted every corner I could and just made the best out of a psychotic car.
 
Yes Oversteerin thats all well and good but if you take it well over the limit like all the people in a game often do due to a lack of proper sense of speed it will lose traction and like any car with a Viscous coupling unit(I'm 90% sure the Lambo system is as such despite having Audi links) will react slower than more modern systems(and some older,better, more expensive) as on the later imprezas, evos, R8s, etc.

If people just hang on within the point of no return for a little while(<0.5 sec) it will start shifting drive forward and as the front wheels gain rotational velocity the front will start to come round no matter what the throttle opening and may even return to an understeer state given enough room.

Keeping the car within its limits and working the Traction circle properly will result in similar handling to that paragraph you posted above, but you'd probably get abit more out of the car if you take some liberties to get out of that horrible understeer, esp under power post apex. Fitting a proper centre diff should improve it ALOT if I'm right, not 100% sure, I'll go try now.

Same thing happens with the Gallardo but it has more sophisticated diff on the front which may help, not sure.

GT5 is far from perfect but its quite close for a console game and in some aspects keeps PC sims honest.

Whats more wrong with GT5 is the tyre model imo.
 
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I also felt like something was up with the Murc, all my knowledge of modern lambos tells me that they should be very prone to understeer and honestly pretty boring to drive for a car in that class.

However, I dunno about all these complaints on MR handling. While it may be off on certain cars, I was blown away when I finally got in the 91 NSX. I'm used to the MRs understeering like boats in past GT games, and that always bothered me a lot. The NSX in GT5 was actually quite a handful on the stock tires, and I found myself laughing out loud as I was driving it. Now maybe some of the MR cars aren't great reflections of their real counterparts, but for the most part MR finally seems to feel the way it should.

Regarding the Ford GT being well modelled...I would expect that it's one of the best represented cars in the entire game, as Kazunori Yamauchi has stated that it's one of his favorite cars (if not his favorite). I'm sure the GT-R is very accurate as well given that Yamauchi himself was involved in its development and has probably spent quite a bit of time behind the wheel.
 
I am not going to sit here and listen to a bunch of kids who have never even sat in one of these things, let alone driven one, tell me what's what when I work with these cars on a daily basis.

O rly? Since you had so much "seat time" pushing a Murcielago on some "back road" and all the other fancy cars you should work for PD and tell them how it's done. Since everything you say is the truth and backed up by thousands of internet sites.

GTPlanet users you should be ashamed! how dare you question this man of such credibility.
 
I just tried the Murcielago Chrome Line and didn't seem an awful car to me. Honestly I was hoping it to be better, but it's not that bad :)
 
For starters, even with the absolute worst, hard compound, bald tires in the world, no car would have so little adhesion as the lotus in that challenge.

You've driven a Lotus on Goodyear Eagle NCT5s? :lol:

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Take a chill pill, guys.

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Let's not lose sight of the biggest problem here: The difference between our perception of handling in real life and our perception of handling in a video game.

I've seen people drive fast cars on track. Not a peep from the tires, often... or if anything, just a slight squeal on the edge of "push". Smooth steering, smooth driving, gradual brake application... they never really do find out how bad it can get.

In-game, the same people lock up tires going into corners, saw away at the steering violently, and generally enter corners twice as fast as they would in real life. It's only experienced track drivers and professionals who seem to be able to make the transition from real to virtual with no issues. I.E.: their driving is smooth and measured in both respects: 10/10 both on-track and on-screen. The rest drive at 8/10ths on the track and 11/10ths in-game, with predictable results. I've gotten to the point where I'm at 9/10ths for both, but I can't claim to be quite as good as the best, yet.
 
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I just tried the Murcielago Chrome Line and didn't seem an awful car to me. Honestly I was hoping it to be better, but it's not that bad :)

My Murcielage Chrome line seems fine too, I spent some cash on it, went out and won my race... can't argue with that!
 
I drove it in the event, and the handling during braking was the first thing i've noticed.

Well, it's a raging bull for a reason, right? Also, a lot of people seem to hate this car, saying "This oversteer is just ridiculous" Or "I would have a gt-r over this".

This all reminds me of a certain Italian car back in Gt4...
 
The lotus is not so bad, but it's not an easy car to handle either, it just takes time to learn it's limits.
 
The bottom line is that while some cars in this game feel surprisingly accurate (all things considered), none are true representations of their real-life counterparts because it's a ****ing video game, kid, get over it. The point of this thread was to see how many other people have noticed these inconsistencies so that hopefully, the developers will take notice and issue patches at some point down the road.

It is amusing that many fans think PD can do no wrong, isn't it?

I haven't tried the LP-640 in the game or real life ( I wish!) but I know from reading many reviews of it over the years that it does not go into snap oversteer unless seriously provoked with the throttle at the limit while cornering. The thing has loads of grip and some understeer--as most all wheel drive cars do.

GT5 has so many cars that there is no way their algorithm can get all of them right. Some cars they have personal experience with-- like the Ford GT-- get extra attention and are more accurate. This isn't iRacing where they are slaving over only a few car models to get them as correct as possible. It is the opposite--let's pack in 1000+ cars...

Games like this can only do so much with so much content. In fact, I think the push for so much content has hurt GT5 overall--it isn't as polished or exacting as it could be if they focused on less. I am still enjoying it quite a lot though and can overlook most of the flaws (even though the number of them is disappointing) due to the good stuff in the game.
 
Alright, quit 'cher whining, here's a fix:
LSD Settings:Front- 10/40/45
Rear- 10/40/45

Center Diff Settings:Front 20 / Rear 80 (adjusted to rear bias, I'll explain)

Brake Balance (big factor in the instability when braking and the snap-back)
Front 3 / Rear 8

Alright, I first experienced the horror of that Murcie on the Grand Tour special event, and I was traumatized. I was glad I'd went with Ferrari for my first big purchase instead of the Gallardo I was eyeing up. After reading this, and playing around with the Gallardo and Murcie a bit in arcade, I felt like it was more of a horribly exaggerated AWD feeling then anything, as it's not too much different then when I'm pushing my STI a bit too hard on a wet or slushy road (actually I've experienced that exact snap overreation from countersteering on a wet road with my torque at 35/65).

I bought the Gallardo, which was experiencing the same problem.

I decided I'd see if it was the car or the AWD by biasing the power to the rear, but leaving just enough forward to let it still perform like an AWD should, and increasing the limited slip during braking. Bang, big improvement (was using Circuit de la Sarthe wet with sport hard tires for my test track). Still got squirrley when braking, but during accel-off it was MUCH better, butt end stayed in place perfectly, tail only kicked out when braking. Got a 4:24 lap time, not great, but it was better then DNF'ing and throwing the controller. Adjusted to brake bias to the above settings and got that time down to 4:17, and the tail of the car stayed exactly where I wanted it the whole time, and the overcorrection snap was completely gone for me.

These settings worked equally well on the Murcie. Slightly more power could be applied to the front wheels if desired, and still have good results, but I like my cars like I like my girlfriends, to be willing and to get their butts out on command. ...and yellow ;)

I hope this helps someone.

Edit: This was done with all assists off and ABS on 1.
 
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the Merc Night event was hard

a few tips
set your game brightness to +1.0 this will help alot
turn ASM off it makes the car hard to work with but it will make it faster
use lowbeam
dont listen to the driving line if you use it, best way to do it is by feeling it

PD messed up the headlights in this game, which new car only shows 1-2 meters in front when on lowbeam?
 
Apparently this is a tough car to drive in real life. Lambos are notorious for it. Very fast but kinda dangerous. They made a 4wd version of this car mainly cause the 2wd version was slated as been undrivable by motoring critics.
 
I also felt like something was up with the Murc, all my knowledge of modern lambos tells me that they should be very prone to understeer and honestly pretty boring to drive for a car in that class.

However, I dunno about all these complaints on MR handling. While it may be off on certain cars, I was blown away when I finally got in the 91 NSX. I'm used to the MRs understeering like boats in past GT games, and that always bothered me a lot. The NSX in GT5 was actually quite a handful on the stock tires, and I found myself laughing out loud as I was driving it. Now maybe some of the MR cars aren't great reflections of their real counterparts, but for the most part MR finally seems to feel the way it should.

Have you driven an NSX? It was very anti-climactic when driven after contemporary Porsches & Ferraris.

I like them, but they're not fun or soulful enough for me to commit.

I haven't driven an NSX in GT5, but I know that the car shouldn't be a handful. Even on stock tires.
 
That last post i find strange, the Mclaren F1 was based on the Honda NSX, Gordan Murray thought the car was a masterpiece and that the chassis was the best MR chassis around, it was one of his big inspirations driving an NSX in developing the Mclaren F1.
 
Dont want to repeat myself but

Lamborghini Murcielago is a 4WD car

Dont want to get into an argument but they made a 2wd version first. It was slated by motoring critics as "Downright Dangerous"...Im not sure which versions are in the game, maybe both are...Im not gonna look now since Ive been working on making the AI get better....ie. im drinking Vodka and cant be bothered.
 
Alright, quit 'cher whining, here's a fix:
LSD Settings:Front- 10/40/45
Rear- 10/40/45

Center Diff Settings:Front 20 / Rear 80 (adjusted to rear bias, I'll explain)

Brake Balance (big factor in the instability when braking and the snap-back)
Front 3 / Rear 8
I was told by another member that setting brake biased towards the rear made the problem even worse. I'm so confused.

Dont want to get into an argument but they made a 2wd version first. It was slated by motoring critics as "Downright Dangerous"...Im not sure which versions are in the game, maybe both are...Im not gonna look now since Ive been working on making the AI get better....ie. im drinking Vodka and cant be bothered.

The Balboni. Sadly, it's not in the game. :grumpy:
 
Dont want to get into an argument but they made a 2wd version first. It was slated by motoring critics as "Downright Dangerous"...Im not sure which versions are in the game, maybe both are...Im not gonna look now since Ive been working on making the AI get better....ie. im drinking Vodka and cant be bothered.

The one in game is 4WD, and the thread is about the one in game.
 
That last post i find strange, the Mclaren F1 was based on the Honda NSX, Gordan Murray thought the car was a masterpiece and that the chassis was the best MR chassis around, it was one of his big inspirations driving an NSX in developing the Mclaren F1.

As far as usability & how easy it is to exploit, yes. They can be absolute monsters on the track, but the driving experience is a bit antiseptic.

It has none of the character that makes Porsches & Ferraris feel special. The car was impressive, but it was just too refined & polite. Again, it's not a handful at all.

And as far as the Murcielago, it's supposedly the most exploitable Lambo until the Gallardo came along. I remember reading from Balboni that it's not as susceptible to the pendelum effect like the previous Diablo & is much easier to drive in anger (not to mention, easier to correct as well).
 
well having read the first 3 pages of this thread and the claims by people on how the lambo murci lp640 drove i decided to look up a top gear clip where they tested it.

The complaints from people on here is that it is a nightmare to drive once you get to the twisty stuff, oversteering, understeering and generally throwing you into the barrier the moment you turn the wheel

Conclusion from top gear...........insanely fast in a straight line.......insanely wild in the corners, clarkson could barely get it round a corner, a man who is an advanced driver

Strangely enough thats exactly what the lambo murci lp640 is like in gran turismo 5 for the average/good player...it can be tamed though you just have to realise its limits and yours and stop blaming the car.

Now iv never driven one of these cars but from watching the footage on top gear and there views on it seems to me the lambo lp 640 in gt 5 has very much the same charateristics as the real thing.
 
I have the LP670-4 SV, with all available modifications, and im pretty disappointed with the handling... the car feels way to vague and not precise enough... My Gallardo (also with all mods) destroys the SV!
 
I very recently drove an Elise around the Prodrive circuit in the UK (got Silverstone next!!! :)) and there is no way on God's green earth that an Elise handles like it does in the Top Gear challenge.

Forget tyres. An Elise would not handle like this on £20 remolds... In the wet.

Not even close I'm afraid.
 
Dont want to get into an argument but they made a 2wd version first. It was slated by motoring critics as "Downright Dangerous"...Im not sure which versions are in the game, maybe both are...Im not gonna look now since Ive been working on making the AI get better....ie. im drinking Vodka and cant be bothered.

No they didn't. You may be thinking of the Diablo, but it was hardly "downright dangerous". The Diablo was initially RWD and then 3 years later came the VT which was 4WD, you could buy one or the other (SV being RWD and VT being 4WD) until 1999. The final (2000-2001) Diablos after Audi bought them were all VTs. The Murcielago was a 4WD platform from the get go, and there was never a rear drive version released.

The Balboni. Sadly, it's not in the game. :grumpy:

Thats a Gallardo not a Murcielago (either way not in the game though :( ).
 
I haven't try Murcielago Grand tour event yet, but I did try Elise at Top gear event and I manage to get gold (after couple of tries).

What would you say which event is harder?
 
Dont want to get into an argument but they made a 2wd version first. It was slated by motoring critics as "Downright Dangerous"...Im not sure which versions are in the game, maybe both are...Im not gonna look now since Ive been working on making the AI get better....ie. im drinking Vodka and cant be bothered.

Yeah not sure what car you're talking about, but there was never a 2WD Murcielago. The only 2WD Lamborghini since Audi took over the reins was the LP 550-2 Valentino Balboni and yes, I wish that was in the game 👍
 
For starters, even with the absolute worst, hard compound, bald tires in the world, no car would have so little adhesion as the lotus in that challenge. Even in light corners where there is very little load on the car, the car loses grip in a very overexaggerated manner, so please stop defending this game as if its perfect and without fault. It's still a fun game, but you kids need to accept that it's just a video game, and does NOT accurately represent how a lot of these cars drive in real life. Period.

As far as the lambo is concerned -you asked me if I've ever driven a MR car in real life? Did you not read my OP? I have driven, numerous times (because of my line of work), eveything from a Ferrari 360, 430, Ford GT, Lambo Murcielago, and Gallardo, which are all MR cars.

I have also driven a couple RR cars, like the Porsche 911 Turbo and GT3. I have even had quite a few of these out on track at Road Atlanta as well, as my company sponsors track days with various organizations, so I think I'm in a pretty good position to comment on the real life behavior of these cars.

The fact is that there is a HUGE difference between lift-throttle oversteer off-throttle corner entry oversteer. Lift-throttle oversteer is where you transition from hard acceleration to full decel abruptly in a corner and cause a sudden weight transfer off the back end and on the front end. The heavy rear end nature of MR cars tends to cause them to snap out rather quickly in these circumstances.

This, however, is not at all what I am talking about with this car. In this game, even after braking and downshifting well before the corner and initiating corner entry after the balance of the car has settled, the rear end has so little traction that it's preposterous. Conversely, even RWD MR cars like the Ferrari 430 Scuderia and Ford GT are perfectly composed in this game in these circumstances, and can actually benefit from intentional lift-throttle oversteer in tight, slow corners where understeer might be present.

Anyway, I can see that I am fighting a losing battle here by making light of any imperfections in this game. I still enjoy playing it, but unlike so many here, I am not so blinded by marketing hype and brand loyalty that I can't see the good AND the bad. I think I've said all that I can say. Take it easy, guys...

For all those who refuse to acknowledge the fact that the murcielago, like many cars in this game, is not an accurate representation of its real-life counterpart (despite the fact that they have NO real-life experience with the car), here is an excerpt from a car and driver article reviewing the car and confirming my comments about the vehicle:

"On our handling loop, our test car proved a wholly nonthreatening bull. That's because, like all four-wheel-drive Lamborghinis, it understeers. You'll hear the front tires moan, then squeal, then howl. Dial up whatever intensity you want, but "push" is the order of the day, especially in hairpins. It doesn't spoil the fun, though. How could it, with 0.98 g of grip on tap? That's enough to disorient passengers and disgorge the contents of their purses. But it may contribute to what is certainly the Murciélago's chief failing&#8212;that it tends to feel big, brutish, and awkward in all low-speed maneuvers, revealing a kind of gravitas you wouldn't expect in a vehicle whose sole purpose is to entertain. The weird throttle, the slow shifter, the two tons of pork&#8212;it's sometimes hard to establish a rhythm."

This was taken from p.2, but the rest of the article can be found here: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...cielago-road_test/raging_bull_tamed_3f_page_3. Anyway, like I said before, I have a decent bit of seat time in the murci, and the reviewer's findings parallel my own. If anyone wants to argue further about this, knock yourself out, because I am done. I am not going to sit here and listen to a bunch of kids who have never even sat in one of these things, let alone driven one, tell me what's what when I work with these cars on a daily basis.

You have proved it, I must say then that you have quite the reportorial of experience then.
 
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Have you driven an NSX? It was very anti-climactic when driven after contemporary Porsches & Ferraris.

I like them, but they're not fun or soulful enough for me to commit.

Sadly... as the goalposts move, class leaders start to get left behind. Some modern econoboxes can drive rings around the supercars and sportscars of yesteryear. (except for the small issue of power...)

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Again: regarding the tires: have any of you driven these cars on tires they weren't made to drive on? A car that feels fine-honed and docile on summer rubber definitely won't on cruddy rubber. It's set up to take advantage of the grip it has at all four corners... and changing down two or three steps to worse rubber will change that balance in unpredictable ways.

If you want to compare these cars to real life, get a reasonable facsimile of the rubber they use. With the Lotus, most modern Elises/Exiges come with pretty hardcore Advans... probably the equivalent of "Sports" category tires in GT. The NSX... well... hard to say, but definitely not "Comfort" tires.

Going down a few steps in rubber compound will exaggerate whatever bad habits the stickier rubber was hiding, be it excessive oversteer, excessive understeer, or a twitchy mix of both.
 
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